Bitcoin Forum

Phillipino nannies remit over $20billion yr. If the nannies switch to bitcoin the savings from fees etc would be enormous, maybe over $100mill per year..

You mean an Au Pair?

Do you have a source for this estimate?  did you read it somewhere?

Here's 1 article on it, I'm sure there's plenty more: http://www.cireport.ca/2012/01/money-remitted-by-nannies-makes-8-9-per-cent-of-the-philippines-growing-gdp.html

Actually not juz AuPair/Nannies but Overseas Filipino Workers in general (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Filipino)

"In 2012, the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP), the central bank of the Philippines, expects official remittances coursed through banks and agents to grow 5% over 2011 to US$21 billion, but official remittances are only a fraction of all remittances.[10] Remittances by unofficial, including illegal, channels are estimated by the Asian Bankers Association to be 30 to 40% higher than the official BSP figure.[10] In 2011, remittances were US$20.117 billion.[11]
This Philippines is the fourth largest recipient of official remittances after China, India, and Mexico.[10] OFW remittances represent 13.5% of the country's GDP, the largest in proportion to the domestic economy among the four countries.[12]
In 2012, approximately 80% of the remittances came from only 7 countries—United States and Canada, the United Kingdom, UAE and Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and Japan.[11] These countries are widely dispersed around the globe—in North America, Europe, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, and East Asia, respectively."

This is why I think Bitcoin is a very nice, fast and efficient way to send money to Phils from abroad.  Hard earned money is now free from high transaction fees from Western Union and the likes.

That why I support my kababayan Mang Sweeney in his mission: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88320.0

I'm working on moving to the Philippines this Fall. I 100% agree with the OP. Not only is it ideal for OFW remittance, but also for their private loan system. It will be easier to get friends and family overseas to help repay micro-loans through Bitcoin.

Try thinking exactly how this would work. Foreign workers sending money to their home countries cannot switch to Bitcoin until either of the two conditions is met:

1. Bitcoins can be spent directly for goods and services in their home countries, or

2. Bitcoins can be exchanged to the local currency at the cost lower than existing fiat-transfer fees. Note, even if this condition is met, there would be a huge imbalance in the direction of trade - coins coming into the country, not going out. To balance things out, arbitrage/fiat exchange is needed, with all the old cost we are trying to avoid here.

Option 1 is the only sustainable option in thr long term, and we are nowhere close to realizing it.

Speaking for myself only, I believe that Filipinos are fast in adopting new technology, ideas and are very much welcome to things that would make life easier for the hard work they do.  Though it may take sometime I am very sure that once most Filipino get to know more about Bitcoin they'd be one of the major supporters of Bitcoin.

They can exchange BTC for cash but thinking it's some form of investment too they can sell it too. The countries they can sell and pass the coins around will then be almost limitless as Filipinos are almost everywhere.  Or start accepting salaries or goods for BTC. 

That may be your take on it, but it don't make it so...

Option 2 is the no-brainer, as far as I can see.  Those transfers into the Philippines are crazy expensive.  Fees for:  buying a remittance vehicle (money order, usually), transmitting it (postage + insurance, or Western Union fee), forex fee at the other end, bribes or taxes at the other end (pick one)...).

All that; versus sending bitcoin to a Philippine-enabled exchange (no fee), selling it (0.5 - 3%), and ACHing the local currency into a local bank account (the equivalent of less than a US dollar, one would hope).  I don't care how you slice it - given a Philippine-enabled exchange ('enabled' means it doesn't necessarily have to be in the Philippines), it's cake.

That's where the money is to be made, too.

If you doubt that last, take a look at the adoption cycle of Skype.  Skype was made by Mexican immigrants into the US who wanted to phone home, but couldn't afford regular phone charges.  [n.b., please note that the article you cite points out that Mexico receives more cash from these remittances than the Philippines]  And Skype - back then - was not a particularly noob-friendly piece of software:  but they figured it out because they had a good financial reason for doing so.

Actually I have sent money to the Philippines and the total price for converting from fiat to BTC and back to PHP is about the same or lower than the price Western Union charges.

HOWEVER: No offense, but these over-seas-workers aren't tech savy enough to use BTC. You guys ever been to the Philippines? Organization and education is.. lacking.

Sorry.  See my post above yours.  You're just wrong - and the history of Skype shows that conclusively.

https://localbitcoins.com/country/PH

thst nice

Some of those spreads aren't the worst I've seen on LocalBitcoin...

uhmm AFASIK even a 7 year old kid knows how to play online games nowadays, almost every household got smartphones, tablets, laptops and pc's plus there are lots of internet shops everywhere.  And to think those OFW are away and to keep the communication cheaper the first thing they invest on are mobile phones and computers. I dont really think being a tech savvy should be too much of an issue (except of course u ended up with tons of BTC in ur wallet and have to back it up).

"HOWEVER: No offense, but these over-seas-workers aren't tech savy enough to use BTC. You guys ever been to the Philippines? Organization and education is.. lacking." ----> this may be true but if I think opening a bank account is much more complex than transferring BTC.  Considering most Filipinos doesnt meet the qualifications to open a bank account (let alone having a VALID ID to start with).

I've been to the Philippines a couple of times - it's the friendliest place on the planet despite all the guns (and stray dogs).
It almost seems to have been designed by God for bitcoin - wifi is everywhere, people are used to power cuts so many places have their own electricity generators, it's fragmented and decentralized due to the encroachment of the sea. Money seems to move via pawn brokers on every street corner.
It just needs an exchange to connect to these pawn brokers.

Yeah, I've been there too, although not for quite awhile.  Doesn't sound like it's changed much, except for the internet access.

Mexico and the Philippines are bitcoin's money tree right now, I think.  If I were younger and without ties I'd be down there hustling up some kind of exchange connection, or maybe hooking up the local currency to Bridgewalker.  Something.  There's a metric crapton of cash waiting for someone...

I won't be surprised if Manny Pacquiao is using BTC too  ;D

That's not necessarily the only option. To balance the currency flow all you need are people in the Philippines who want to buy BTC with local currency in order to import foreign good. Electronics, perhaps, from Bitcoinstore.

Option one s not needed at all. First its a world wide network not a country by country network therefore coins going in and out of a certain  country actually have no effect on diection of trade. in addition option 1 was not the original reason bitcoin was created, option 2 was. And we already have ways to change our bitcoins into the peso its called localbitcoins I do it every week :) and yes it is cheaper than western union or anywhere else, because it eliminates the sending fees the pick up fees and the exchange fees.

for every american household with a filipino au pair, i bet there are 20 households of single guys paying western union to girls on filipino webcam chatrooms....
for every american household with a filipino au pair, i bet there are 2 businesses paying western union to suppliers/warehouses for products and stock
for every american household with a filipino au pair, i bet there are 5 households paying western union to scam/con artists in the Philippines

so although i do not think its all 'au pair' based.. the volume of remittance alone per year is enough for someone to set up a conversion service.

of course it is too bad its impossible i think

Wow that is a lot of money, man! Imagine just a fraction of that going through Bitcoin!! We wouldn't even need all that money in Bitcoin constantly, but just use Bitcoin as a means of transacting it, or only a small fraction. It would have a massively positive influence on Bitcoin, still!

op some decent links to back up?

Almost 2 years passed in mean time. And even now local bitcoins or ATM prices at least in my country are quite different from bit coin exchange rates. I am not sure if can compete with westeren union fees. But i am sure 2 years ago they could. MAybe 2 more years and 1. Bitcoins can be spent directly for goods and services in their home countries, or  will be happening in Philippines.

LOL@thinking one of the poorest 3rd world southeast asian countries will adopt bitcoin, most especially elderly nannies who don't even have high school educations and don't know how to power on a computer


And this is coming from a filipino.

Outside of certain wealthy districts in Manilla...you guys are living a pipe dream.  The Phillippines and filipino people have a lot more to worry about than taking computing courses and riding a jeepney 30 minutes to a nearby internet cafe solely to jump through hurdles to download 'virtual currency.'  It's hassle enough for well versed computer nerds like myself, let alone some person living without air conditioning and sanitary water and doesn't know what a 'computer bit' is.

I'm convinced most everyone in this thread has not been to the phillippines themselves.  Then again, most of the people are on this forum are 18 years old just looking at this from a money making standpoint. 

You guys really want to be philanthropists and make a difference there? Try actually donating money to the millions of families living in wastelands without electricity in cardboard huts.

Wait, what? Why do you need to know about computers, or have one, to use bitcoin? You can just use it on a phone. Even a dumb phone, with SMS, through Coinapult. If there is a bitcoin ATM somewhere, or a local trader willing to swap, then you just receive coins from overseas through SMS, and then cash it out locally.

Wait till they are earning in Crypto

wat chance you think they will convert to fiat and send ?

I am in Mindanao. I am trying to teach filpinos about Bitcoin, but you are right, it is hard. Most youngsters are online and there are cybercafes everywhere. There is fiber optics in most big cities. They understand the basics of Bitcoin. We need cheap, easy, and secure cold storage and hot wallets that anyone can use. We are years away from that, but it's still a good time to teach about the technology.

I mean, it's great from an idealistic perspective, but most in this thread know absolutely zero about the phillippines or the exact disparity there is between the rich class and being dirt poor.   They're just looking at it from a 'hey look here's some people in a foreign country we can capitalize bitcoin on and raise our holding prices!!' 

 And by dirt poor, I'm talking burning your trash in your backyard...having a cellphone or even a 200 dollar netbook is nowhere remotely in their train of thought.

I salute you for trying to make a difference.  But man...with how corrupt the government is...it just seems like a neverending cycle of corruption and more poverty.  :(

https://rebit.ph/

http://i58.tinypic.com/sbr0nc.png

You don't necessarily need to know what is bitcoin and how it works to use it for remittance. There are a bunch of start-ups that offer bitcoin remittance services.

http://www.coindesk.com/philippines-startups-fulfil-bitcoins-remittance-promise/ (http://www.coindesk.com/philippines-startups-fulfil-bitcoins-remittance-promise/)

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-firm-enables-remittance-withdrawals-450-philippine-bank-atms/ (http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-firm-enables-remittance-withdrawals-450-philippine-bank-atms/)

https://rebit.ph/how-it-works (https://rebit.ph/how-it-works)

I've read about one of such businesses (can't find a link) enabled both senders and recipients to pay/receive in fiat, so they wouldn't even have to know that bitcoins have been used for transfer.

The remittance market is huge all over the world and there's much more to it than Phillipino nannies. I really think this is an industry where bitcoin can thrive. You don't even need to know bitcoin is involved if you use other companies that take advantage of bitcoin for you, but you could also do it yourself too.

Then you realize none of the local shops in 3rd world countries accept bitcoin nor have the means to.    What advantage does a 40 year old nanny who doesn't know a lick of computing have to switch over to bitcoin when they're already being paid in readily usable cash?

Good god, the IQ level on this forum is astounding. 

They have the means to. They got to have some old and shitty computer lying around somewhere, but you're right.
The adoption there is almost non existent.

The term 3rd world is so 1980's. The Philippines is dirt poor compared to its PAC rim neighbors, but in the bigger cities they have many many large malls with 5th Avenue stores and Manhattan prices on imported goods. It's insane how much foreign investment is coming in to sell fashion in a country without clean tap water. There is plenty of money, but its poorly distributed. There are all the world' car dealerships and many SUV's on the streets. They are certainly not getting much tax benefit from all this wealth. I'm not making a political complaint, because I don't think the government here is as corrupt as the USA. They just need a money that is not trickled down so honest work can demand honest pay.

Oh, I wasn't debating that.  In fact, I even stated in my OP that Manilla and many of its districts are filled with rich people.  However, there is a HUGE contrast between the rich and poor there, and very few 'middle' class that we have here in america.  And guess who comprises most of these 'nannies' that the original post refers to?  Yes, the dirt poor.

They have zero use for bitcoin, and the best way to help them would be to firstly give them solid shelter and food rations, and then give them free educational courses (no, not bitcoin education, but junior high school and high school educations...then college).  Bitcoin should not be a consideration in their lives.

I donate a good portion of my salary and send food to my relatives in Olongapo yearly, because they need it.  Those basic essentials are luxuries for them.

But the original post does NOT work for nannies and the low level workers (arguably slave labor for how much they make each).  The wealthy elite? Sure it's a consideration.  But the rest of the population has no use for it right now.  There are much bigger issues at hand.

The biggest potential users are OFWs and Balikbayans (repatriated Filipinos). They are sucking the wealth out of developed nations (and smartly so) and building their nest eggs back home in the provinces.

What doesn't make sense to me. Why not just use Ripple and they can send it in their local currency instantly and basically for free. Bitcoin is no longer a good remittance tool as new technologies (Ripple) can get the same task done without the extra step within 5 seconds (instead of up to 1 hour).


Why go USD>BTC>local currency when you can go USD>local currency*


*I have assumed the nannies are in the United States.

One of several professions that could be targeted.... I'm sure cruise ship workers would also be ranked highly among international transfers... oil workers... military etc.
The best way for direct targeting would be common interest forums & publications.
With increased awareness the failure has been not providing direct links for signing up with specific benefits & simple instructions.

I'm not sure he's the one who needs to be checking IQ. You don't need to know anything about bitcoin to take advantage of what will likely happen in the remittance market. There will be remittance companies that will do that for you and give you your cash just like western union do except they can cut a decent chunk off fees in doing so. Of course you could always do it yourself as well and cut fees even more. It's not hard to use the blockchain.info app on your smartphone.

As someone who uses Bitcoin for remittance, it is short sighted to say that it cannot be done because people don't use bitcoins in whichever country.

I get a much better rate going USD->BTC->EUR than I do USD->EUR.

And now that I can get paid in bitcoins using bitwage.co I just do BTC->EUR.

As has been shown here several times in this thread, sending money fiat->Bitcoin->fiat is cheaper than the current options for Phillipinos.

It is just a matter of time before it is used all over the world for this. If you have a cheaper version of the same product as someone else, either your product will eventually take over or the competition will need to lower their prices to compete. It is only a matter of adoption.

I hope you're right. Logically this seems like it should come true, but at the same time I can't see why more companies or industries haven't already implemented bitcoin when the savings are quite clear. I guess we just need more people involved and awareness.

It just a matter of time before the big remittance companies in the Philippines start accepting bitcoin. Once they adopt it they are capable of advertising it in television, internet and in newspaper that can reach the majority of the Phillipinos. This is just a matter of advertising.

Most of this remitances are not coming from nannies. They come from nurses, teachers, sailors, workers in oil industry, military contractors and many more working abroad.

There are estimated 10 to 15 million Filipinos working abroad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Filipino

Most of the nannies and OFW are computer literate now. My cousin is working in the government and his work is teaching the OFW's how to use the computer.

@flipstyle: You're right in saying that the Philippines has a lot more problems than learning how use a new technology, 'cuz we get a hang of new tech pretty quickly. The only reason why its not so widespread here is only a matter of building the front-end tools necessary for people to use it, and the awareness that it exists in the first place. I want Bitcoin to be successful here in the Philippines as much as I want it to succeed everywhere, and I'm contributing to the projects that I believe will make it happen.

Reddit post on this topic:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rn46k/been_using_western_union_and_xoom_for_years_to/


Also, you don't even need a computer to use bitcoin. Just a phone that can do SMS.

Thanks for sharing about our service - I'm with coins.ph, by the way. Our goal is to increase access to financial services using digital currencies / bitcoin. Remittance is a two-way process - there's the sender (OFW) and the beneficiary (family member / loved one). The good thing about this process is that it only takes the sender to understand bitcoin (how to remit money using bitcoin), and the process can be completed - money can get to the beneficiary through familiar means. Hence, we are very glad to add 24/7 instant ATM cash pick up into our list of remittance payout options. https://coins.ph/atm-cash-pickup

Advantage of remitting money using bitcoin? Convenience and being able to save on fees - hoping this could help motivate more senders / ofws to give it a try.

BitShares will be big for remittance in the Philippines & one of their remittance partners already has relationships with a receiving bank there. BitShares is waiting for the release of 1.0 in the next month before they officially push hard on some of these markets.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=11125.0




BitShares has BitUSD which is fully decentralised, an average of 300% collateralised & holds the value of USD, (currently 34 on coinmarketcap)

http://whatisbitusd.com/
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/asset?id=USD

(They also have all major currencies, BitGold & BitSilver trading too.)

Wow, I thought Pirate was in jail. Did he create BitShares as a more technically magical Ponzi scheme?

“If you have a thousand bitcoins and you convert them to BitBTC, and then you hold it for six months, then you convert the BitBTC plus the dividends you received back to bitcoins, you’ll end up with more bitcoins than you started with.”

Wow...a Bitcoin generating alt!

But wait, where do they get the extra bitcoins to give to people that held for six months? Surely not from new people investing their bitcoins...

No, they don't get the extra USD/Bitcoin/Other from requiring more people to invest more and more Bitcoins :)

If you want to buy 1 BitUSD it costs you $1 worth of BitShares.

People who want to take a leveraged position on BitShares can short a BitAsset like BitUSD at the price feed.
The shorts are required to lock up $2 worth of collateral and they compete on how much interest they're willing to pay the longs.  

When a long (Someone who wants 1 BitUSD) meets a short, a new fungible BitUSD is created.

So the interest that you earn on BitBTC or BitUSD and other BitAssets doesn't require new BitCoin coming in, it is the result of people competing to take a leveraged position on BitShares & paying interest to people who want to hold BitAssets.

http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/asset?id=USD  - You can see this system maintains an average of 300% of collateral to back BitAssets and is able to generate interest for BitAsset holders.

http://bitshares.org/the-value-proposition-of-bitshares-part-ii-bitassets/

So BitUSD lets you send a dollar stable asset, globally, in 10 seconds, for 1¢ per transaction regardless of size. 
With the partnerships being set up in the Philippines mentioned above, it will hopefully revolutionise remittance.

3 year later, its caught on pretty well

Do u know how much they make? Surely their western union fees are lower than bitcoin trading and tx fees.

Bitcoin is design to only be used by elites.

that is why it will be beneficial for them to know how to use cryptocurrency as a way to send their remittances to their family here in the Philippines..
being to save few more money instead of paying remittances center for services charges to truly wonderful.
that is why we Filipino's must now be more responsible in disseminating the knowledge about cryptocurrency to our fellows.

Yes it is a benificial to over seas contract workers with this   
technology at least  we have  another options for money remittances at least those remittance service provider can now think of lowering their charges because of pair compitions.

Knircky,

I agree, you lose about 8% with bitcoin, that's why SALPay is making a token that will cost only 1% (no forex fees) to send money from US, SG, AUS directly into our existing SALPay wallet and card here.