Bitcoin Forum

Personally I'm now less prone to do a btc transaction since the fee market has exploded and blockstream/sidechains aren't really available currently. I was enjoying speding btc with sites like humblebundle, but currently is really a pain. It's just me or you are on the same boat?

Higher fees has a psychological impact or effect on the consumers and bitcoin spenders. My experience is when I am doing my signature campaigns I do not withdraw my daily pay of 0.006 btc since the fee is 0.00005 btc and that is very high. And so to lessen my burden I am withdrawing my funds once in a week so i will not pay that huge fee.

"No" since mostly(since before), I've used the appropriate fees and the difference with recent events is minimal in my case, therefor my behavior hasn't changed. From my observation, majority of users that I see complain nowadays, are those that used to put a fee lower than recommended (and got used to it since it did the trick) and they see the current situation as a big change rather than a step climb in fees.

It definitely has. Once upon a time, I used to send transactions with *zero* fees, since the inputs were old and the transaction was a high priority one. That seems like ages ago to me. Now a days, I am very careful while using bitcoins and have basically stopped using them for micro transactions.

Well I don't bother at all regarding on TX fee since I don't make any transactions frequently and if I do some TX I just pay up high fee but I don't bother to pay for it since it's just really a small fee rather than other money transfers,bitcoin is much better.

well, yes and no to be honest.

surely i am less willing and less happy to use bitcoin as a payment because of the high fees that i do not like at all. but at the same time, there are some stuff that i still want to do with bitcoin.
such as my investment, and trading that i do.
or paying for my VPN service, or renewing my domain names or gambling. but if fees continue going up and transactions continue taking up too long, i can't continue using bitcoin this way.

Same here bro! we are in a same boat here. It was very happy when i earned my bitcoin and storing it for some of the things that i wanted to buy but now when i spend it in paying the bills and fees its really heart breaking and the worst part of it is my fees are certainly high and the transaction of it not my style >.< but good thing in the internet its really easy to earn bitcoin but its hard to lose it when you work hard for it and you have not enough bitcoin for you :'(

nope 8)
i am still a bitcoin hodler who keeps buying more bitcoin each week or every other week with any money that i have and i don't need and then hodl it. the withdrawal fee of my exchange service has not yet changed so it doesn't affect me transferring those coins to my cold storage...

and as far as other usages go, it has not yet changed me. but mostly because this hasn't been going on for long.

I'm the same as you, usually i use my bitcoin to buy games at humblebundle and maybe steam or csgo keys from someone, but the increase fee definitely reduce it, the other thing is waiting for confirmation time. The amount of small transaction that i do definitely reduced now.

No my behaviour hasn't changed.
The payments I'm doing with Bitcoin are still absolutely cheap regarding the fees compared to credit card or other payment networks.
So for me it's still absolutely worth it using Bitcoin and paying the average fee ore some more, even if it is 50+ cent.

Not much. I really don't buy stuff with my bitcoins, I just hold them and withdrawals to fiat are very seldom. I use this for sending and receiving money too but since the bitcoin address I'm sending to/receiving from is also from the same exchange there's no fee. I suppose this would have made me more cringey had I been using a different wallet but I really don't have enough worth guarding so I'm fine with this set-up. I'll probably continue using this as a hot wallet even when I progressed to other wallet types.

It hasn't changed a lot for me with the fees problem, even if I am not so happy. I try to anticipate when i need  to buy something, mainly services.
So if let's say I need to get something on monday the i purchase it on saturday on sunday. Still i really hope this problem will disappear as soon as possible, because it is very boring right now. As for when i am buying bitcoin, it makes no differrence for me as long i don't need them in urgence.

Yes and no, but more yes. Even if some people feel that the fees are still low for the service compared to the non Bitcoin competition, i do not like to pay more then necessary. And the fees are unnecessary high, just because we can not decide on how to scale. So i try to not make transactions or accept to wait longer. But i will pay premium if need be, then i do not care much about the fees and a quick and safe transfer has priority. 

I hardly face such problem. One can send and spend bitcoin free of fees through web wallets like Coinbase and transactions get confirmed very fast too.
By the way major reasons for increase in Bitcoins fee is impatience of people. They wanna confirm their transactions as soon as possible which has created an unnecessary increase in mining fees

no, you are not alone. we are all angry about the situation. every time i want to send a transaction and worst of all when i receive a transaction i have to worry about fees and how long it is going to take to confirm. we are so lucky that Viabtc is offering their awesome service to us users. i honestly don't know what i would have done without it, they saved me for multiple times with multiple transactions that i was receiving.

Not really. Unless you always receive micro payments or payments from faucets, the fees is still fairly low as compared to the alternatives. As long as you don't accumulate too many small inputs, there should be no reason as to you paying a huge fee for a single payment.

If you worry about it not confirming, just use dynamic fee or similar.

Another thing that I notice is the increased difficulty when the confirmations aren't showing in a decent amount of time. In the case of humble bundle, they were even accepting unconfirmed transaction, now there is a persistent hold status that isn't very clear on the buyer side, like, you buy a digital item and don't know in how many hours you will be able to have it.

Have been enjoying buying games and steam wallet from steam until this very recent hassle from the transaction fees. I am still using bitcoins for some purchases but I'm thinking of just halting it for the mean time since it's really a pain in the ass paying for almost a dollar in fees just to have one $5 transaction confirmed within a single block.

On the same boat. Localbtcoins are charging 0.00036 as fees now even if you transfer just 0.005btc. Which I think is pretty high fees and the fees has been the same for the past couple of weeks. Now I have switched from LBTC to multibit to keep my small volume of BTC.

Well the fees are still relatively low compared to fiat transactions, so not much effect on spending at least IMO

i'm the type person who not too much spend my bitcoin and only for important things always and indeed high fees has so annoying because if everyday i send my bitcoin several times which mean the fees also killing me but and i think it is yes these high fees has changed my behaviour when spending my bitcoin

Not really, I always treated bitcoin as gold, since I can buy anything I want with fiat so why would I bother wasting bitcoin on stupid crap I don't really need when it will only keep appreciating in the future?

Fiat = mundane shopping
Bitcoin = savings

Spending bitcoin have been given pause for a short time period. Most of the spending is on gambling websites which doesn't need confirmation but by the end of the event the confirmation helps on the speedy transaction of the won amount. Even now gambling is not a wise decision because the increased price makes us loss heavily.

Yes it has changed the way i am now doing spending not often, once in a while only when i need i do or else i now convert it to fiat currency and spending my expenses. More over for my sports betting now i have to chose the correct game to bet if not i just dont take risk due to high transaction fees and transaction delay problem.

I don't mind high(er) fees if they slow rates of btc exchange & help unconfirmed transactions over the long term.

This could give people incentive to be more efficient with transactions and that could go some ways towards addressing the unconfirmed transaction issue over the long term.

yes exactly high feees is making problem for me. while last few days back i wanted to buy a web domain for $1.2 but while I did the transaction it cost me $1.6 and even it was too late and I  was fustrated for that

High fee problems does not changed my behavior when spending Bitcoin.  Even though I agree that the fee hurts specially when you are having a transaction in different time of a day since you will be spending alot of satoshi each send.  But I guess there is nothing a simple user can do about it but to follow the rule of transaction.

I don't believe in wasting money on unnecessary high transactions fees.
So been using Eth & LTC & Doge to transfer Funds between exchanges instead of BTC.
(Cheaper & Faster, and I just convert to BTC on the exchange if needed and avoid the BTC Transaction Fees & Delays altogether.)   ;)


 8)

Maybe this is the best solution, but one should stick just with the major alt-currencies for the sake of stability with price, otherwise daily spending could be really a pain

Use bitcoin only for alt coin buy. Hate this high fee.

Well, it's not just the fees, it's also the inconvenience and unreliability, we always have to check if the network is congested and if it is wise to make a transaction at that moment and will it confirm, low value transactions are a no go.

I just stopped making bitcoin transactions.

it did change my behaviour when I send bitcoins,mostly
I don't like to be asked to pay 0.001 bitcoin fee for a 0.07 btc transaction (almost 1.5%) and then wait for it to go through for additional 3-12 hours
and I pity those who rely on microtransactions,people who are using faucets,PTC or other ways to earn bitcoins online
they suffer huge setbacks because of the fees-their multiple dust payments take up a lot of space and therefore cost way too much for this
sort of moneymaking (if you can call it so) be worth the time spent

I feel wasting my money to send my transaction in bitcoin, the fee lately has stop me from spending bitcoin, if it is possible i try to reduce my bitcoin transaction and keep holding it as investment, i want to see whether there will be any changes to the fee in the future

Transaction fee affects my transactions alot in terms of transferring my balance into ontehr wallet. I have to fund huge amount in my wallet in order to lessen that fee, hence I can't withdraw all of my balance. However, it's still better unlike usd wallet that most of transaction were canceled sometimes with no reason. I would rather to oay higher fee for the security of my money and its convience.

Why won't they send these spam transactions via one of hundreds of alts which have zero fees? Not like they need bitcoin's security for sending $1... Convert into some alt with shapeshift and use that.

Screw spending bitcoin, I'm done with that.  I bought something online last week from a shop that takes bitcoin, and no sooner than my payment went through, bitcoin shot up to $1200.  There's absolutely no reason to spend bitcoin instead of cash.  I've said it many times before:  bitcoin is great to speculate with or as a store of value, but it's horrible as a currency--and its volatility is only one reason.  When I bought that item online, my payment was stuck in the blockchain for three fucking days.  And they didn't ship it until they got the first confirmation.  I am absolutely done with that.  It would have been so much easier to use my debit card.

Yes, I think first the fees before spending if it is important or not. Fees from exchanges are high already some are charging almost 50,000 satoshi. But if this is for the betterment of the system, no problem for me at all.If this translate to fast,secure and efficiency.

In case you sent the transaction that didn't confirm from your own wallet, why didn't you just cancel the order and make a new one where you double spend the same coins but this time with a higher fee? It would save you so much time.

At least you know it for the next time (if you ever happen to use Bitcoin as payment tool again). But you are hitting a right point, in general, fiat offers a much better currency experience when it comes to purchasing things.

Volatility, the fees, the confirmation times, it's all not that much inviting for the average person to make use of Bitcoin while they can do everything much faster with fiat already. This is something that needs to change.

Not really. Unless you always receive micro payments or payments from faucets, the fees is still fairly low as compared to the alternatives. As long as you don't accumulate too many small inputs, there should be no reason as to you paying a huge fee for a single payment.

If you worry about it not confirming, just use dynamic fee or similar.

yes, i know look more at the size of transaction, and as i said in another post i try to use new wallet to avoid getting many imput and output that woudl increase transaction size

with the lowest possible transaction size you still only pay 40k satoshi, which is affordable, i don't want to pay 100k+ satoshi, which is approaching paypal and make bitcoin look bad...

Well,no,it hasn't influenced how much I spend BTC,the only thing that has changed is if I want the transaction to be confirmed faster I use higher fees-I won't stop spending BTC just because the fees have increased.Although,if this continues for too long,at some point I might consider reducing the number of transactions I make.

For some they may say that they dont like this thing happening on bitcoin but its not really a big deal to me even though i make some transaction on everyday basis fees doesnt bother me at all because they are just too low to bother you out and also bitcoin does really give convenience regarding money transfer and i treat those fees as nothing.

The thing is even if higher fees are now imposed, it is still relatively low, that is why there is no significant drop in the total number of transactions that take place. If anything, there’s even an uptick in these figures and we are seeing the transaction number grow by the day. Personally, I wouldn’t mind the transaction fees right now because I only do my transactions every once in a while and with not so high amount, so I am still ok with it. It might be a bit of a bother for those who are used to low fees and fast transactions. But that is a thing of the past now.

With the increase in fees i stopped sending single transactions and micro ones and in order to save the transaction fees started sending out transaction in a batch to save the fees. The high fees will kill the micro transaction facility it had and with the price increasing it will be a problem in the future .It will be a wise move if they could handle the issue in its infancy .

I have started looking at the mem pool size when I make a transaction.
It's not even the fees that bother me, but the fact that a transaction takes that long.
Even transactions with higher fees have taken way longer than I expected them to be, so now I simply don't make the transaction when the pool is full anymore.

No it hasn't. I personally think that the fees aren't that high and I'm still spending as much on Bitcoins as always.
Maybe one day if the fees are to high for me I will spend less on Bitcoin but not now ;).

We seem to be in the same boat because hitherto was I sending BTC on single bets but it's changed fur the part one week. I now accumulate/parlay more games on one ticket and pay with a single transaction to avoid paying more so I'd say it's changed my way of betting.

It's changed but I haven't effected any transaction just yet but I plan on sending only bulk transactions at once from henceforth for them to be splitted without having to do them separately.

My feeling on Bitcoin isn't any different because of the price change. Bitcoin is just a regular thing that people have on their computers, even if we have to pay a fee for transacting with another user then so be it. I don't use Bitcoin that much yet I feel for the people who didn't get any Bitcoins when the price was low so they have to end up with spending more money to output transactions.

The minimum is around $0.13 right? It isn't that bad right now.

Good to know, we can't really control the price of bitcoin same with the dollars value. So we just need to wait for the moment it will increase or try to focus on investing it than spending a lot.

Saving bitcoin is really the best move to do and you are right bitcoin price would really increase and we cant really control it since adoption is on the move it would definitely rise and expected people will surely use it even more which means transactions would be more too and expected fees would rise soon but i dont mind at all.

Although I dont use bitcoin to get basic things as we have no merchant accepting it as a means of payment so we are left with only to convert to fiat before getting anything we want to get. In that regards when it come to fees I try as much as possible to reduce to the barest minimum by not converting every now and then. What I do is accumulate to the point I needed to cash out I just pay the one time fee which is not always too much compared to what I want to get...

high fees have a strong influence on the needs of the user, the first is their mentality when trading, and the cost is too high, they may feel depressed because suffer want about big expenses. But if they do not pay high fees, they may have to wait very long for their transactions to be confirmed, it is also a bad thing. I personally think we should limit daily transactions and transactions carried out a week with about higher fees, which will reduce some fees we incur

No it doesn't changed the Behavior of Me because I Like Bitcoin and the Fees is still low as Compare to other Payment Methods like PayPal, Payza and other payment Methods and Also Bitcoin is anoymous and the Other payment methods are not Anoymous and also I Try to do Less Transactions for saving my Money.....

That seems to work for me as well, Spending Bitcoins every now and then is a pain in the ass due to increase in transactions fees and a long time to wait to get my transactions confirmed. These issues have made me limit the number of times I make Transactions. Instead, I pay in bulk. Thanks to Electrum Wallet " pay to many " feature.  So yes, The high fees made me Change how I make TX(s)

The high fees hasn't changed mine behavior when spending  on Bitcoins. I personally think the fees aren't that high.
And the because of the profit the Bitcoin offers like fast and save transferring money, I don't mind paying the fees during a transaction.

yes definitely my pattern of using bitcoin had changed because previously when transaction fees were relatively low then i used to send even $3 or less not but no chance of doing the same mistake because it takes lot of time even after paying so high fees.

Well i dont really have a big amount of bitcoins so for me its fine. No fuzz
But i do know that the guys that has tons of bitcoins are all complaining right now because they're paying high transaction fees but still takes several hours for their transactions to get process.
We need an immediate solution for this because this minir issue might get bigger.

I've always consedered BitCoin more as a storage of value, not the instrument of value transfer, so it's fine with me. I don't have to make tons of small transactions and when I do need to send some BTC and I need it real quick, I set the fee around 1-2$ and it's coming very fast. But I think if you really use BTC often, like for small payments and so on, increasing fees gotta be pain in the ass.

BTW, do any of you guys use Coinbase? They don't charge a fee to send bitcoins out from your bitcoin wallet on any amount over 0.0001 BTC. So, basically, sending over 0.0001 bitcoin is free

Current fees are affordable for me, it just like $0.33, fair enough. But, I'm not sure people will agree if transaction fees always increase as bitcoin price getting bigger as time goes on. The higher fees make sense to get faster confirmation but it should not exceed $0.5 in my opinion. Well, I'm okay with the current fees because I rarely send my bitcoin and love to save it,  but devs team really have to solve this problem, stop argue and implement solution.

It hasn't changed my behaviour. It only frustrates me because I have to do what I have never done before, check the current fees and the number of transactions in mempool on https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ before I decide to send anything. It makes the operation a little more annoying, because the fees are going up so fast that one month a transaction with 0.0004 fee is completely fine and the next you need 0.0006 or you'll wait 24h...

We can't deny that the fees are getting more expensive and higher than before and yes it changed my behavior in spending bitcoins because it makes me more type of person that just save it and will not spend it in the things that i don't need because fees are high now and that is a loss for me if i will just transfer and pay the fees.

so do I. I don't send bitcoin this few period of time because of the fee problem. it is better to hold it in wallet and wait for the increasing price. it will be more profitable, but in some case I sell my bitcoin for some needs.

yes i think that we are in the same boat and i realize its really a pain but i think for spending bitcoin, the fees its not take too much than before although there is an increase amount but its fine to send bitcoin with that amount. actually, the fees can help us to gets fast confirmed on the network but maybe its on my mind and i can be wrong for this. but so far, i still spending my bitcoin to pay something that i should too to fill what i need to buy for my offline real so i am doing this over and over for weeks and i don't think too much about the fees unless in future, the fees is increase more high than now.

I keep seeing people saying "BTC fees are much cheaper than fiat" over and over again.

This is simply not true.

You can send money via paypal to "a friend" and pay nothing in fees for starters.

Yeah, now I try to do less transactions, I'm trying to avoid less important transactions. I also don't send small amounts of bitcoin anymore, but I'm still receiving small payments and sometimes it takes long time to confirm.
Now I realized that bitcoin transactions fees are become similar to bank transfer fees. In some cases bank transfers even cheaper. Cheap transactions was one of bitcoin advantages against fiat and now it's gone.

Ahah even with something like that it's high...
Of course if you compare it to shits like western union it's nothing.
But that means you accept your currency is used as a western union bis.
So not going to compete with actual fiat payment system :/

No.

I'm a BU proponent, but I must admit that the current level of fees is not a significant detriment to me.

Then again, for the last several years, I've not been using Bitcoin for trivial small amounts. The current level gets lost in the noise as a percentage of transaction value.

There are however several attributes coupled to the fee that are causing me significant pain. I'll talk about those in a minute after the following observation...

Just thinking logically about this, there is no use case for Bitcoin that goes away with smaller fees. Indeed, for every increment in average fees, there is yet another potential use case that is no longer economically feasible. I guess some people might think 'so what?', but I find it a truism that a more usable Bitcoin is a more robust and secure Bitcoin. We should be enabling all use cases that do not cause damage to the system.

More importantly, however, the current block size caps system-wide usage of Bitcoin at somewhere around 250,000 transactions per day. Regardless of what the fee rises to. If 300,000 people were willing to pay 0.1, 1, 10, whatever amount of bitcoins as a transaction fee in a given day, not all of their transactions will be able to be processed. Period. Sure, if this was a one-day event, they might be processed the following day. But if usage increases? Nope. Permanent backlog. Regardless of the average fee people are willing to pay.

Now back to my personal pain... the uncertainty in regards to an appropriate fee level has turned a thought-free process into one that takes a conscious effort to process. Yeah, I know ... first world problems. But this is just one additional disincentive to using Bitcoin, and one more (small) barrier to increased adoption.



Except you are not converting to BTC on the exchange - you are converting to BTC-IOUs, which is a distinctly different thing.

Right, the argument we are having is, "What will cause damage to the system?"


I don't know of anyone arguing that we shouldn't scale Bitcoin at all. We are simply debating the implementation.

It's forced me into not allowing myself to do any small transactions and to attempt to minimize the amount of transactions that I do per month, this in turn leads the minimizing of the amount of money that I end up paying in fees when I add that all up at the end of the month. Pretty sad to see this occur as I hadn't cared in the least about before as it had been a minor aspect of my buying things which Bitcoin.


Frustrates everyone, I guess I'll be trying to go with a lower fee for things I don't really need instantly. You pay with your time, if you pay less in money you pay more in time wasted waiting.


You still pay transactions fees, Coinbase themselves just don't charge you any fees for allowing you to use their wallet.

It is really a pain since the fees are getting higher. Though we cant do that much because of the popularity of bitcoin, there are lot of transactions and the companies are getting advantage of these many transactions.

For the moment, fees are still OK for my use cases, so my behaviour has only slightly changed (I try to bundle payments to use larger amounts). But if they double again (in USD) then I will look for alternatives - and yes, I mean altcoins. The problem is that in my country there are practically no stores/exchanges that accept altcoins, not even LTC or ETH. But I then will write to local Bitcoin exchanges and stores to convince them to accept at least one major altcoin as a temporary measure until the block size problem is solved (I actually prefer Segwit over BU).

I view that behavior not as "treason" to the Bitcoin community, but as a legitimate form of pressure to do something and agree about a scalability mechanism. If that does not happen, Bitcoin's simply not usable for me because for me it's not a digital gold but a currency or payment system.

Yeah, I was starting to buy things on the internet using Bitcoin, but the increase in the value of fees is something that can not be ignored. I will probably continue to use Bitcoin to buy things, but less frequently, until these problems are resolved.

In a deflationary economy people don't spend much money, bitcoin isn't good for shopping.

Check this article about Japan's deflationary economy:

The World’s Most Radical Experiment in Monetary Policy Isn’t Working
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-worlds-most-radical-experiment-in-monetary-policy-isnt-working-1488135495

Your observation is worth attention. I can't add nothing here cause I totally agree with you about this, higher fees are big problem for me too, and I would like to find alternative in some altcoin. Even thou I use bitcoin as a currency, that is becoming hard with time. I plan to save part of bitcoins I earn, and for gambling and daily transactions to start using some alt. This high price of bitcoin makes me to change my mind about bitcoin as a currency and to accept bitcoin as a digital gold.

It is burden to have a high free transaction especially if you just want to convert small amount of bitcoin, but, on the other hand it has big impact on me, due to high transaction I save it  first and when I finally have the amount that I wanted I convert it to local currency. Sometimes, it took a month before I convert it. And with that, I save more as well as earn more when the btc goes up even in small amount.

The high fees doesn't bothers all the time, the fees are still acceptable, but it seems it might increase on increase of value which might cause trouble. Small transactions with high fees will restrict me in near future.

Yes more or less the high fees have always affected me, especially while doing small transactions of maybe <$10 sending fees of 1$ or more seems too much and if I have more than 2 inputs then the fees gets higher, and for low amount tx's usually i have inputs more than 2. For high amount tx the current fees are still acceptable with only 1 input I only need to send around 0.0005 BTC that is affordable for the tx.

No change for me. I paid what is needed to be paid. The same i do with banks. Bitcoin is still cheaper for thr type of transactions i do

No, you don't. Coinbase covers transaction fee, so you don't need to pay it. Proof: https://community.coinbase.com/t/transaction-fees/7728/4

Yes I now like to send transactions in a complete sum before individual disbursement unlike what I used to do by sending them separately.