Bitcoin Forum

Hello i remember when the past when i first touch bitcoin, the best thing that attract me is the fee less transaction itself.

And during the olden days when i transact, the fee's doesn't show some impact because during that time the price of btc is just $300-400

But currently, i've came across in order to send and get within 15minute, i would need to sent a fee of $0.5 - $0.8 as a miner fee.

Of course by comparing to CC/DC payment, it is still a very low fee.

Despite of that, as i am using blockchain, the current transaction min fee i sent is $0.12 where in paypal for a $2 transaction i will just add a $0.02 fee.

1) Is sending miner fee consider as a "fee"? As most of the blogs, articles mentioned : Transaction involves no fee

2) Will the rise of bitcoin push back users actually went back to the origin payment processor like paypal skrill? As the fees which sent is calculated by Satoshi per Byte.
According to https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ as of 4/3/2017

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 180 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 40,680 satoshis.

3) Is it possible to not include fee or a very low fee? If yes, will my transaction ever being sent? If yes, the max duration would be?


Thanks! Cryptocurrency is a very wide knowledge area but also interesting, i hope that i could be someone who are in the field of cryptocurrency in the future!

It seem possible with low fees. Just a week back I sent a transaction (https://blockchain.info/tx/a1e38eb5de6259128cad6fc1317b6c5b6c12c97a24aa6c9cb9a19a7c4e99f777) with a very low fees and it got accepted. However the process is very long.

I don't think a transaction without fees will be accepted though - unless a miner decide they want to do it for free  (excluding the block reward)*.

Looking at https://bitcoinfees.21.co/, it seem like some transactions with zero fees which got accepted in the past 24 hours.

whoever said "transactions has no fee" did not know how bitcoin works.
and yes i consider sending miners the fee as a fee but a small amount of it not the current amount of fee.
i consider this extorsion.

Transaction fee is security feature of Bitcoin. Do you expect that peerless and decentralized ledger would be completely free to use?
You are paying to be able to use this system where there is no 3rd party, no middlemen and other forms of control.
This system is currently broken though, we are terrorized by miners to pay way to much.

1) then stop reading random crappy blogs out there. people say all kinds of things. also it may have been an article from 5+ years ago when it was possible but still nobody said it is free and people despite being optional, included fees.

2) rise of bitcoin? you mean rise of bitcoin fees?
that can cause people to stop spending bitcoin and only think of bitcoin as an investment. like what you do with stocks, gold,....

3) yes it is possible. no it is not a good idea. the duration is not possible to predict. it may be never at this point because of how mempool is big.

I think of it as a fee. Considering that miners are burning an amount of electricity equivalent to the entire nation of Lithuania, a reasonable fee seems like a reasonable way to compensate miners for giving MY transaction quicker attention. Of course, "reasonable fee" is a subjective amount which will be different for everyone, and frankly, current fees are unreasonable for me. So I hodl bitcoin, but I use ethereum and Monero for moving money around.

I get what you're saying about transactions not having fees, but in this case, there's a transaction processor, it's not truly person-to-person since an intermediary is necessary to add the transaction to the blockchain. Transaction processors have to be compensated somehow, and the block reward isn't forever.

well it was possible in the past to send transaction without any fee and get it confirmed relatively fast not like today


transaction fee make sense only because the reward can not be unlimited(if you want a deflationary system) and will eventually reach a so low amount that can't sustain anymore the network for miners

this is the only reason for the fee, because for now miners don't need fee they have their reward

Yes it is a fee and that's why it's called a fee, you are paying for a service and if you really look into what the service is that you are paying for then in most cases it is extremely cheap. You are not only paying for your transaction to be confirmed but you are also in a small way paying the miner to continue operating and keeping the network safe, although this mainly comes from the block reward if they are lucky enough to find the block.

Yes of course, i consider miner's fee as a fee because it is needed in the circulation because if no one will pay miners for their transaction then there would be no one will support the bitcoin network and the network will can't sustain its stability and the bitcoin will be destroyed.

A few days ago I tried to transact some of my bitcoins and I also found that the fees of miners for the confirmation of the transactions is much higher than what was before. With lower fees the transaction is completed but it take too much time. For faster transaction we have to pay a high fees.

It depend in business it self, if it require fast transaction to approve so i have to pay miner fee, i have no choice. But if business not required fast transaction so i wont pay miner fee

Did you even read the question because your answer had very little to do with the question being asked.
Guess your just doing a little sig spamming  ;)

Talking about bitcoin fee, it is really necessary since bitcoin price reach ATH but size block still stuck on 1Mb, won't ever enough to afford all of those numbers.
1. Yes, it is a fee, nothing to be free in blockchain anymore, imo.
2. Nope, actually people still use other payment processor according to their advantages, if you want to send $1, it's not worth to use bitcoin as you have mentioned about PayPal.
3. No fee involve? Maybe it can, but take years to be confirmed, lol. Very low fee? Maybe need days but I'm not so sure about it as I've never tried to.

I think the perspective that a person has about what bitcoin is will form their opinion on the fee, which in answer to your question is most defiantly a fee.  If you see bitcoin as something you use everyday to buy a coffee then it is pretty bad when that fee is costing 0.50.  but if you see bitcoin as a store of value and it costs 0.50 to move you store then it not the bad in fact its really cheap.  if i had a $100,000 in gold and i could move it for 0.50 then i would be delighted.

That's correct, previously transaction fees were no fees  and we were all excited with that until this new development of high fees which I likewise consider as extortion because Bitcoin wasn't made to discriminate or take away our financial freedom  and there should be equal playing field but the opposite is what's happening currently.

No, its more than that because now we have to pay about minimum $0.5 to $1 for each transaction and even then we cant afford to get our transaction confirmed soon in an hour or earlier.

LN, SEGWIT are practically 2 layers(some calling them altcoins) making it possible to do micro transactions with low fees as it was before.
Miners start signaling them to be activated.

Till late last year have never thought of the miner fee or transaction fee during the time of sending bitcoins. Recent days it's been under discussion for a long. So fee has got a big concern that to get earlier confirmation increased transaction fee is a must.

True, I bump up the fees I would "normally" have to pay by atleast X3 more if I am attempting to moving funds or purchasing something that needs to be confirmed relatively quickly.  Fees have gotten to be pretty ridiculous over the years, even though that was one of the key selling points to using Bitcoin to transfer wealth across border lines.

... Then again, it still remains the cheaper alternative by far compared to other companies to move money abroad.  I'd much rather spend $2-3 in Bitcoin fees right now still imo

What is needed for everyone to start banning the IPs sending spam txids to the mempool, those transactions to the same wallets with low fees.
If they're banned by nodes constantly they'll no longer be able to spam since nodes are not able to see their data coming at all.

Very good questions.
OK, I will try to answer them.
Recently, I send several btc transactions and chose suggested, standard fee. I had to wait more than 24 hours for confirmation.
Because of this experience, last time I manually changed fee and offer3-4 times higher fee. I received confirmation in 10 minutes :) WOW!
So, yes, with small fee your btc transaction will pass but with a very big delay.
Still, I don't plan to go back to the Paypal or Skrill.
For me is also very important anonymity and this I can'0t get with other payment processors, controlled by the government.

I have various experiences. Yesterday I had two delayed transactions for more then 12 hours with recommended fee. Then today I had another transaction with recommended fee and it was confirmed within 20 minutes. Offering higher fee could be the solution but on the other hand this doesn't have to be guarantee that transaction will be quickly confirmed.
Is this fee thing a miner's  pressure on users? We'll see the time will tell.

No matter how small the miners fees are, I still consider it a fee and I'm going to keep using BTC to send my transactions even if it delays for days because I consider anonymity first ahead of everything else and I will admonish for a quicker transaction confirmations so i call for increase in the block size by which ever way they deem fit.

1) Sending a transaction fee to miners is a fee. No question about it, it's a service charge and it helps your stuff move faster.
2) As long as Bitcoin retains lower fee amounts than other methods of payment, people will continue to use Bitcoin.
3) Higher fees mean faster transaction times, and the inverse is true as well. Lower fees just mean it takes longer, if you can afford the wait.

Correct, because transaction fees that we are paying each transactions is needed for our transaction to be confirmed. How can we able to receive the payment of someone if there will be no transaction fee, is this what you want? NO, right? So, in order this whole bitcoin network works, FEES is playing a big role on it, because it is the one that we need to keep the bitcoin alive, without the fees, we have to bitcoin.

In short, it is all about give and take, that is how it works. In order to receive or earn something, we need to do something that is worth us giving or earning something.

That's correct, but reasonable fees and fast confirmations are all we are looking . It's kinda irritating these days to send or receive a transaction after paying huge fees which hitherto wasn't the case.

I consider it a fee, but what irritates me is that they are growing very fast. For those who make several daily transactions ensure high priority on the network is increasingly complicated. The problem is not the fee, is you pay it and have to wait more and more.

bitcoin should never have been pushed as a free and instant payment solution which is a perception that still turns up. anyone who analysed how it works could've told you it wouldn't be when it started to actually be used as it was intended.

the current situation is a hindrance and avoidable but it was also baked into how it works.

I have sent 0.01 5 houres ago with fee 37000 sat and i am still waiting on first confirmation,usually btc network is experiencing problems during weekend,you need to put fee if you want your transaction confirmed,but still is easy to scam network,it is big btc problem

I have several experience with the delay of transaction even though I have set my electrum wallet to average fee.  The worst I experience is the almost 72 hours delay, it was confirmed when I push the transaction in https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/.

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I think sending a transaction without tx fee can also be confirmed but the possibility of it going back to your wallet is much bigger than it being confirmed.  Lower tx  (less than 10k sat)fee will have to wait at least for hours and worst for days.  With average fee (40k sat below), there is no telling when it will be confirmed and you will be lucky enough if it confirm within an hour.  If you want fast confirmation, send your transaction with above average fee (41k sat and up).