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Wandering through the board today, soaking in all the delicious, xenophobic hate, something occurred to me. Since American outcry at illegal immigration is based in 1)they took our jobs and 2) they are bad hombres, let's examine why illegal aliens are here in the first place.

To work.

Last time I checked, you need a job to work. And in the Good Ole U S of A, it's illegal to hire undocumented workers. So, why aren't we arresting the people that are committing treason by hiring these guys? They wouldn't come here if there were no jobs. So why not punish the transgressors AND those that facilitate the transgressions, equally? Are we gonna let guys  go that would rather pay less and not use American workers, rather than pay a decent wage and use Americans? I meant, what would Trump do?

He would get those UnAmerican sons of bitches right out of here. Giving away our jobs, making us build a wall. Doesn't that seem not bigly at all? WEAK!

So if we are making America great again, why don't we start at the top? Harsher penalties on employing illegals would discourage the employment of said illegals, and why would you come here for no jobs?

Or is the reason that most business owners are white, rich and male, and that this would overwhelming only affect them?

Your thoughts. And I want the trolls to come out. I'm getting paid to refute D grade ignorance from bigoted bastards, this is a liberal wet dream, I assure you.

What makes you think that migrants take your jobs? If the place is empty so it is not yours. Why do you think that Trump can tell me who to hire? This is my business and not for him to decide whom to hire. If you like you will say such words, you may encounter a problem when the protest will only accept migrants.

I think you misunderstood me. I think Trump's deportation order is harmful and non productive.


I personally don't think migrants take our jobs. Last time I checked, mowing grass, cleaning a hotel or someones house, or picking produce was not something I'm really that into. Any American for that matter, but that's a different thread. Here, it's against the law to hire undocumented workers (the kind that the deportation order is trying to push out). I'm saying, if these guys are breaking the law being here, but actual citizens are breaking the law (by hiring them) and perpetuating the problem, why don't we punish both? Arrest the American with the Mexicans. That's only fair, no?

I'm not talking about the travel ban. That's a whole different stupid. I'm talking about the directive for ICE to deport illegal immigrants who are only here to work. It's not so much stupid as ignorant (things will cost alot more without the cheap labor these guys provide). Also, not winning too many popularity points with Mexico over this.

If you hire illegal migrants it means, that you are not paying any taxes for him, depriving him of health and social insurance. Like slaver esentially. That is the profitable side of hiring illegal, undocumented labor in the first place. Slavery was outlawed back in 1863 as far as US is concerned, wasnt it?

I agree with OP that Trump order is not perfect as it only solves side effect, not the cause of this human trafficking bussiness.

Because he is the president of the most powerful country of the world? Because there are laws that states whom you can hire? Because if you want tot keep your business and the wealth it generates you need to follow the law?

I think fines are already given to employers who do this unknowingly, as they hire these people off the books without any documentation on their side. If their is false documentation that's another story but that's going off the story of the topic here.

This is something that can already lead to jail time if their is a pattern seen and a motive to keep hiring these people with around 6 months in jail according to the site in which I was looking at. Some of the more severe punishments include Criminal of Civil fines and may lead to the loss of business licenses that are needed to keep the business running.

This is something which is already here so I'm going to be guessing that you're attempting to call for more harsh penalties being instilled for hiring illegals and more oversight as to companies doing it which I'll 110 percent agree with doing this.

Don't think you can get much harsher on the illegals than kicking them out of a country they call home, that they helped to support, while not giving them their stuff when you kick them out. I guess the next step from that is taking them out back and shooting them in the head, lol. So no. We have done quite enough with the laws concerning how to punish illegals. Hell, we just enhanced the laws,bigly. I'm talking about us (well, not us per se, I don't know if you do but I no longer own a business). The asshats that hire them.

But yes, the people that hire them should be deported as well. Or jailed. But only if a crime is committed (owners should not be punished if they unknowingly hire an illegal, they lie too LOL. Im not Anti American one bit. It's fucking awesome here. But when you have guys paying cash to guys that don't even have an ID, and avoiding taxes, yes, throw the book at them. Insert it in their ass, to the spine at least. The oblong way.

I guess I am essentially asking that in order for this directive against illegal immigration to be valid, we should place as much emphasis of enforcement on catching crooked business owners as catching illegals themselves. Because to me, if you cracked down on the Americans perpetuating this, suddenly there would be little incentive to come here illegally. And it's much cheaper to enforce, saving my tax money. Kill the head. Not the hands.

i think they're already doing the equivalent in the uk, or trying to. landlords have to check the immigration status of people they're renting to. in the same way the truckers who drive over the channel with immigrants hiding get fined.

i think that's bullshit myself. it's the government's problem, not regular people.

This is a bit complicated. If an illegal alien gets employment after submitting fake documents, then how can the employer be held responsible for it? And nowadays, forged documents are easily available from dark markets.

E-verify. We have a system where you can put in the social of a worker, and see if its valid. If that worker already has 55 jobs, it may be safe to say you may have a false social.

Fake document makers can use name, ID, DOB of some real person.

But unless that person doesn't work, they should show up in the system. With a job.

Criminals have become very innovative these days. What if they are using the fake ID of someone who is unemployed? Or they can use the identity of someone who just expired, but still not purged from the records.

Makes sense, but it's something that is going to face a good amount of fight when it comes to the amount of lobbying from companies that probably have an interest in allowing a good amount of their wages to go and to stay off the books. It's sad to admit that it's a problem here in the mind of Americans as they'd love to save a buck by paying an illegal 1/4th of what an American citizen would get but it's something they do here.

Maybe just make the punishments harsher with on second offense you're added to a watchlist and given some sort of prison sentence?

More likely some unemployed hobo will sell his data to fake docs makers for a bottle of beer ;D

Eventually all races are going to mix. Might take a few thousand years.

Even if someone does that, the law enforcement authorities may not be able to prove that he did it intentionally. E-verify is not a fool-proof system. If you want to make it fool-proof, then add retina scan and finger-print scan.

It seems to me that if there is something valuable behind this protection, nothing can stop an attacker, even a fingerprint or a scan of the retina.

THE ILEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEM IS VERY CMPLICATED ,THIS SOLUTION  COULD BE POSIBLE IF USA WAS A POOR COUNTRY, EMPLOYERS ARE ELON MUSK,PETER THIEL ETC

ALL THESE BIG COMPANIES  HIRE  IMMIGRANT..

AMAZON,PAYPAL,FACEBOOK,GOOGLE,MICROSOFT AND STRIPE.

OK... I have no objection about prosecuting the employers who willfully employ the illegal aliens. But what about the illegals who lied to their employers about their legal status? As far as I know, the Obama administration refused to deport even those illegals who forged the documents.

Yeah you'rr right. It would be hard for any company to determine if the applicant is illegal or not. Its very easy to fake documents. Though i think that some of these companies are deliberately accepting them even if they know its not legal or they don't have proper documentations and paper. The government can only crack down on these immigrants i think as i don't see them giving sanctions to big companies

Migration policy is the responsibility of the state. The employer is only the employment relationship. People did the work and got paid for it. Why the employer needs to take on the responsibilities of the immigration service?

I like strategy but why call them alien  ;D ;D I call myself sometimes alien.I dont want that kind of aliens in my country and they will leave my country forever because we dont need them :P
 

Are you ready to give up career and part of income to improve demographics, so West countries won't need immigrants?!  ;D

Tell me, what's a career? Show me one example when the immigrants took your job? They are always the least paid places that don't want to take the locals. Charges migrants is a provocation and manipulation.

http://funnypictures3.fjcdn.com/pictures/Buzzfeed+in+a+nutshell_261a8c_5670262.jpg

Or what? The people claiming for any reason what so ever that one should not deport illegals are against the concept of Nation States, the concept of law, the concept of borders, the concept of the sovereignty of states, and a plethora of other concepts.

If you argued against these concepts on a basis that is not 'omg the poor people looking for a better life' hogwash that most people are brainwashed into thinking, you would be seen as an absolute lunatic. And you know it.

I mean giving your career to raise own children, so we don't need to accept immigrants to compensate bad demographics.

For the Germans the problem of demography was standing in the 70s. That is why in Germany at that time there were Turkish migrants. Now it is one of the most numerous migrant groups. The problem with the Syrian migrants are purely humanitarian roots.

This is a problem created specifically for Europe to be distracted from other worries in the world, and has already begun to take care of its life. At such rates, Europe will remain a settler for the Syrians.

United States have similar demographics if count only whites.

https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/fertility19802013_b.png

^^^^^ The fertility rate in the United States may be well below the level needed for replacement. But at present, the US population is growing at a rapid pace, naturally. The births still outnumber the deaths by around 1.4 million.

This may be true for some short period of time, but in long run it will follow fertility rate. BTW, most growth comes from latinos and not whites.
In Western Europe the same situation - most births comes from immigrants.

Open question to all the white males on here. How do you feel about this? I noticed a lot of commentary in the blogs I read, I was not aware that some of White America is afraid that minorities will outbreed them. I think everyone will be mudbloods eventually, this is what the Lord intended (check out hybrid vigor if you think I'm a loon). But as a majority that is threatened by multiple minorities, can someone genuinely explain how they feel, that has an opinion on the matter?

What an incredibly rational and logical idea!

You know why it doesn't happen? Because employers have money and they contribute to political campaigns. And the US Political system is one that needs to be bought into rather than simply voted for upon the good of the people.

And you're so right in the idea of if Trump really wants MAGA, his version, to be reality, he needs to stop his catering to the special interests, traditional politicians, and corporations. He needs to deploy laws that make logical sense - note that building a wall is not one of those ideas, not in the age of airplanes, boats, tunnels, and ladders.

But then the question is, what is the need for further immigration, when the population is already growing by 1.4 million per year? IMO, the government should improve the living condition of those who are already living in the US, before bringing millions of third world citizens to the country.