Bitcoin Forum

China miners are about to hijack Bitcoin and cause a contentious hardfork splitting the Bitcoin blockchain.
Think the ETF rejection will be bad? Wait for the massive dump due to the Chinese!

Prediction: ETF rejection dump, MAJOR BUChina hardfork dump, hello $200 my old friend…

I know, I know, I sound like the duckmeister…

It always amazes me how stupid people can be. Thinking giving more control to miners than they already have is a good idea. With mining centralizing in China, that is just giving Bitcoin over to the Chinese. I have no idea why anyone would think that is a good idea…

When China destroys Bitcoin, everyone will wish they stuck with Core but it will be too late!

PS. I hope I am wrong.

aww.
there there my friend. did you sell your coins too soon? you have my sympathy...

next time make better decision about your selling price choices.

You are clearly mistaken and panicking because you saw 2 Antpool BU blocks. Even with Antpool signaling for BU, that is not enough for them to reach 75%. In either case, they'd end up mining an useless chain pretty quickly.

The basis of your argument is what I could not even phantom because its basically based on assumption which might either be true or false. Firstly, you don't know whether the decision of ETF will be positive or negative then after that you don't also know what will be the reaction of the community to such news. In my own opinion, several issues will happen and the response of the market most times might not be predictable just let's wait and see how it unfolds in our very own eyes...

Or... investors will become very bullish once Bitcoin can scale again.  I know I will.

I think OP is only speculating. We have yet to witness the outcome and in my opinion,the community is expecting that ETF  will be approve this March 13. Whether it will make or break the bitcoin price, that remain to be seen.

Boy, you guys are very positive, true optimists. I applaud you. Where is the clapping man meme when you need it lol.

there is no way this can go to $200 anymore, if you understand how the market work, do you think any person in his mind would sell his bitcoin bought at above $200 or above just because there is a little panic for something that is not certain?

and add to this that going at 200 will destoy mining profitablìily, do you think miners will want this? they want to any move that can lead to a disaster in their business this is guaranteed, that's why they are not deciding anything yet

China doesn't even have >50% of the total power, when one of the pools hit %~34 a few years ago nothing happened. It's like the PBOC scare all over again

Which fork is going to $200, Blockstream or Unlimited?

Wow!
So much nonsense in one single post.
Very poor and lame attempt to spread FUD.
That's all what you are trying here.
China hijacking Bitcoin? How? Come on man! Give me a break!
Antpool is bluffing! Jihan Wu is pissed and scared of UASF! now he tried to threat back. That's all!
And no major dump will happen! A shit ton of people are just waiting to buy back at 800 or 900. So we will bounce back pretty fast and ~1000 will be the bottom after that.

I think you're having a lot of negative thoughts, the price may drop a lot, but it will fall to $200? This was greatly exaggerated.


I agree

If it happens the same thing as with Ethereum, we are all making a pretty good buck, Market Cap combined after the fork is higher than previous, plus now it is at an all time high.

Don't know what people are afraid of...

Heh...cheap coin at $200...still have 20K profit if that was the case lol :) IF such happened 'consensus' for all involved would
be rapid and heartfelt imho....nothing like money disappearing to put this whole block chain debate behind us all quick.

Also all that cheap/cheap/pretty BTC $200 coin to snap up :)

I wouldn't think that way if I were you. First of all it is impossible for China to hijack Bitcoin and cause a contentious hardfork splitting the Bitcoin blockchain. Also, I dont think ETF rejection would cause that much dump for bitcoin to reach 200$ level again but in case if your prediction happened OP, I would love to consider rebuying bitcoin again and wait for another jump in price to resell again.

Embarrassing OP, I sense somebody who is far too late to the party to invest. Either that or a butthurt bear who sold out way too early.

Unlucky bro.

Nothing new or interesting to see on that chart. If the price goes up hard, then it can also come down hard. At this point it's either a dump as result of some one cashing out profits due to the market that is not able to sustain these prices for much longer, or it's a dump purely focused on triggering stop loss orders to cause a mini flash crash. Either way, the title of this thread is nothing more than an attempt to cause panic among less experienced Bitcoiners.

Does someone knows in which exchange it has started?

https://www.worldcoinindex.com/coin/bitcoin

there was the fat finger crash where some one on finex or something btce ? I can remeber went from about 800 to 200 or so? so it not impossible but it looks like more to error of input

I have one silly question, why BU activation only needs 75% signaling? But SegWit needs 95%?  :-\  Shouldn't be both same as 95%?

You can set any % to your proposal as you'd like. However, the lower the percentage the more problems it is likely to cause. 95% is generally considered 'consensus', as 100% is usually impossible in practice. Therefore, a proposal that is adopted with a minimum of 95% is an 'upgrade'. However, in the case of 75% you are more likely to create an altcoin, i.e. split Bitcoin than to cleanly upgrade the network. Additionally, there are also calculations that with a 75% threshold it is possible to 'kick in' the activation with even less hashrate than that.

BU doesn't need any signaling.  It will control the longest chain today if 51% of mining power supports it.

I would normally call out FUDsters, but this time it's something to seriously consider.

The ETF rejection is not that bad, it's pretty predictable it will most likely not get passed, BUT, if Jihan Wu decides to fuck shit up, we will see a chain reaction of panic selling. Stupid motherfucker is too dumb to see how he can cause another ETH/ETC armageddon in bitcoin.

don't be naive. and stop comparing bitcoin with that ether shitcoin. that was a big mistake and the developer forked the coin without anybody accepting the for so it was left with side chain!
the recent thing about Jihan Wu is mostly drama because 2 of their blocks were signalling support for BU and it is not the end of the world. and these are not the first blocks signalling BU and this will not cause a fork.

OP, you need to calm down it is all empty talks.

The thing  i want to know is  the red candle from 1275 down to 1173 if that was panic sell from people hearning this bullshit or is it big boys trying to shake out weak hands before the 11th

Either way it didn't last as the drop ended and we're back near 1230. Got some cheap coins, this close to the ETF announcement it's best to hold and wait for the announcement. Could be good, could be bad.

Another panic thread *YAWN*

Yep but Jihan is clearly threatening by doing that. I don't know if he is bluffing or not, but im getting tired of this shit. Roger Ver with his stupid propaganda promoting BU is also annoying. It may reach a point where a fork is unavoidable, and then we will see some serious shit.

If the ETF gets approved it should bring some upward predictability to the price, however, if rejected along with BUChina hardfork gaining traction, I expect a much bigger drop. People are underestimating the damage BU China can do to Bitcoin.

Consider this: the BUChina community was not happy Bitcoin's value has rocketed up in recent months, they wanted the price to drop so they can point to it and say we need bigger blocks.

FYI: I have my stash and I hate Fudsters, check my post history. I am legitimately worried about China taking over Bitcoin and YOU should be too.

and all nodes reject block of BU because they override the 1Mb limit ... BU, it's only 8% of the nodes.
they will not win.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/4056/o8o7E1.gif

I wasn't speaking as to who would win.  Someone asked a question about 'signaling' and it was answered.

There was a minor crash today and the price plunged almost $100 when news came out from China that the people's bank of China said that the regulations are not temporary but the price recovered after that ,the OP is clearly dreaming here because the price might reach $2500 at the end of the year and i suppose you dumped all your coins .

I think it is obvious now that Jihan Wu may be getting paid to do this, I doubt he is stupid enought to want to ruin bitcoin when is deeply invested in mining. Or maybe he is legitimatelly stupid enough to think that he can get away with the BUcoin attempt thinking everyone will go on his side as he becomes even more powerful thanks to flawed BUcoin code that would make miners even more powerful than they are already, which would be the final nail in the coffin for the project.


But they can't win. I know bitcoin, it's strong, it will generate auto immune defenses and kick this Jihan out if he doesn't cooperate.

That's a whole different ball game. ETH is a pumper plaything and not much else. It doesn't really matter what happens to it.

Everything in the crypto space is underpinned by BTC. If that decides to have a funny turn then it's considerably more serious. If it can be hijacked once, then there's nothing stopping it happening repeatedly until there's nothing left. I think I'd be walking long before then.

Also know as a 51% attack.

It is not '2' blocks, it is a few of their servers that are signalling support for BU.

The number is actually lower, i.e. <3%. See here: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html

I see what you're attempting with your rhetroric.  Clever.

People need to wake up and stop living in denial. China is trying to take control of Bitcoin. Anyone who agrees with BUChina does not believe in decentralization and supports the hijacking of Bitcoin.

huh?

So if China does the most work in a proof-of-work system, that means Bitcoin is hijacked?  Sorry i'm confused what you're saying here.

People don't seem to understand bitcoin.

From the abstract of the whitepaper (see my sig).

Without trusting in majority hashpower, the entire basis for the functioning of the bitcoin network falls apart.  If you'd rather trust a privileged group of people, stick to traditional banks/fiat money.

Why Chinese miners want to change something? I thought that situation when they are dictating fees and are acting as tyrants is what they waited for.
They can grab transaction fees and and the same cry about Bitcoin Core team's inability to come up with viable solution to scaling problem, a perfect situation to be in.
Don't tell me they suddenly realized that there is something called longevity of the network what is at stake here.

miners aren't stupid.  Network congestion is going to get ugly if allowed to continue.

The so called miners has invested a large chunk of money in it and it is highly unlikely that they would risk to see the price of bitcoin fall as they are the ones who will be affected by the price fall. I am not sure there will be a major dumb at the moment but we could see a correction after a big rally and that is inevitable in every market.

You're the one supporting centralization, not me. You're just another BUChina sock-puppet.

The Globalist West decided to make a Chinese General in charge of Interpol for first time. 

So anyone who supports BU is a sock puppet and wants China to take over Bitcoin.

Just want to make sure I understand your position.

What is this mentioning of $200 for?
Were well above $1000 so can not got down that far over night even with ETF not being approved
can it? :-\

Do you support centralization, yes or no? If no, how can you justify supporting BU? Please explain this to me.

I don't support centralization.

As I explained in another thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1803307.msg18064768#msg18064768

Additionally, development is completely centralized when you allow one corporation to dictate their scalability roadmap to the community.

I do not support any proposal that would centralize control of Bitcoin to any entity. I also do not support any proposal that could cause a contentious hardfork threatening to split Bitcoin's blockchain into multiple competing chains. Can you say the same?

FYI: Core Devs are more than just Blockstream.

Its fallacy saying ALL Core Devs are bad because a few work for Blockstream.

I wish you BU supporters would stop with the Blockstream conspiracies and see what is really happening here with China.

Basically this, I think many are prediction that ETF is not going to pass but this will bring good new since the price will get lower and we will be able to buy more bitcoin for less.

It's already under centralized control and by supporting core you are supporting that.  
Who published the 'core scalability roadmap'?  Greg Maxwell, who is also the CTO and cofounder of Blockstream.  Draw your own conclusions.

Sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

You can't avoid contention while at the same time take a stand against entrenchment and centralization, which unfortunately has already crept in.

Along with them few other blockchain giants too hand together on the scalability support to the core. Finally China holds the control, if the same debate continues to happen without finding a common solution to sought out the problems.

Most people don't really understand what's really happening here and now: https://medium.com/@lukeparker/the-trust-attack-a6241a08a9cd

why are we even discussing this and calling it "fork" as in it is a bad thing.
aren't we supposed to give in to the majority vote? if majority voted for Segwit or BU then accept it?

sorry to ask this but i just don't get it, one mining pool showed a tiny bit of interest in showing support for another proposal and this topic shows up here calling the doomsday? why? it is still a very long way to (i think it was 75%)!

There you go again with Core = Blockstream, not true but I will tell you what is true, BU = Chinese control.

And let me tell you something else, Satoshi never envisioned centralized mining in China or mega mines with ASICs when he wrote the white paper. He envisioned decentralized mining, with people mining in their homes on PCs. It is an unfortunate flaw of Bitcoin.

How long do you plan to wait to speak up? 30% (almost there), 40, 50, 60?? Now is the time to stand against the hijacking of Bitcoin

Here is the source of that quote in context:
https://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography%40metzdowd.com/msg09964.html

I would say that this will not result into a dump! For sure not all chinese bitcoiners will follow whatever that hard fork will happen. Probably only a portion of them will follow that hard fork. I would probably have a minimal effect but not to a point that there would be a mass panic resulting to another big drop in prices.

No. We are talking about consensus and not a majority vote. Bitcoin is not a democracy. In the case of a majority vote, all you did was create an altcoin regardless of whether it has more hash power or not.t

Satoshi is not a time traveler. His predictions, and some visions, are irrelevant today. The understanding and the technology behind Bitcoin is by far different than it used to be. We all know why Satoshi left anyways. Hint: Due to a Craig Wright fanboy.

I would say that this will result in your continuing to shit post.

...to whom he handed over the keys to the metaphorical castle? Be rational.

Well i think you're wrong again.   He said this:


Anyway, I dont care -- believe whatever you want.

I don't really see the logic in miners trying to devalue the product they are producing.
Someone investing time and money would not want the price to drop.

It would be some outside entity that is trying to destroy bitcoin- major banks, government etc.

I think you need to look back into history to understand what exactly happened.

He couldn't have predicted the massive ASIC centralization. In the case that he did, he is wrong and thus his statements should be rejected.

Miners are mere puppets, same as the BU project/folk.

No one is more invested than miners, pretty sure they want what's best for bitcoin, their operations cost millions and are very sensitive to bitcoins price, they are just trying to do what's best and protect their investment.

Indeed, when there's so much dissent, normally, a hard fork is best, so that each community can continue in his consensus.  But the problem is that the essential value proposition of bitcoin over all other altcoins is its "first mover" effect.  Most all the rest of bitcoin is better done in some or other altcoin, but the moral highground of being the first mover is what holds bitcoin at the top.

A hard fork turns the forked bitcoin into a mere altcoin, but with more primitive technology than its competitors.  This is why bitcoin, as long as it has this "first mover" advantage, will not fork.  The forkers will lose a significant market cap as they now have an alt coin.

The only hope for forkers is to get >95% consensus so that the original bitcoin dies, and the new altcoin can continue as "bitcoin".  But such consensus will never ever be reached again, as we are talking about scarcity parameters which are protected by the immutability mechanism that made bitcoin great.

that is a very good point about miners but also don't forget that someone who has only invested in mining equipment and is mining does not necessarily have knowledge about bitcoin.
i am not talking about a particular person or pool but this is something that we need to have in our mind.

Centralization is unavoidable in the long run, it was built into bitcoin from the start.  The only question is, how long can bitcoin remain relatively decentralized ?  Centralization happens because of economies of scale in the use of scarce resources.  PoW is such a thing where economies of scale happen ; but we are now facing a much more important scarce resource: room on the blocks.  Transactions.  Transactions will become "centralized", because they will be so expensive (and so unreliable unless you have partnered with a miner) that only big financial institutions will be able to do so.  At a frozen transaction rate of the order of 2 or 3 transactions per second world wide, this is as of now the most scarce resource in bitcoin.  Hence, bitcoin IOU will allow centralization of bitcoin transaction wallets to occur in financial institutions, making deals with miners to get their transactions on the chain.

No, miners don't do "what is best for bitcoin" they do what is best for them.  Whatever is best for bitcoin, but is worse for them, suffers from the tragedy of the commons.

What can be best for bitcoin but worse for miners?

I also said they're protecting their investment...

I don't have to 'look back into history'... I watched it unfold in real time. If you have a case to make, then make it.

Aoh.. the party is over.
Time to sell off now. I can't wait for 3 longgg days to be in bankrupt mode if the estimations are to be true.
Yes weak hands I have been holding on with for all this time. :'(

Why do you suppose that many posters here do not under this basic idea and only see the other side of centralization from bigger blocks?

Obvious answer = wrong

Pro tip: Zoom out to a time frame longer than 4 hour candles.