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http://codinginmysleep.com/bfl-jalapeno-unboxing-and-demo/

Cool video, thanks for sharing  :)

Now that's a proper demo. CoinJedi, are you paying attention?

Bottom line, BFL officially shipped at least one unit before May, 2013.

Thanks for the vid !

Wow! Looks like they made it with 11 months to spare.

Swanky. :D

Bout time.

Awesome.
I hope my 3 singles will not get hold to long in customs.

... and less than an hour later, the BFL site crashes again :-\

Clearly this is just the next step in Josh's elaborate 250 step plan to get more pre-order money out of the community right??  ::)

So order number 50k+ tomorrow then, I really hope we get one of those PCI-e adapters with the singles! :D

Nobody gives a shit, make sure you let Josh fuck you extra hard tonight. I bet all the other 50k people will get theres soon.

bloody shame BFL done their job on the way they did, that little thing looks so cute.

Wow...it does exist ...

my beefs with this video:

• >check network hashrate to make sure he doesn't accidentally 50% the network
  >OH IT'S JUST 5GH IT'S NOT GOING TO MATTER
• I find your pool statistics a bit off. Between time you paused the video, your ~500 MH/s miner got 51 shares, and your jalapeno got 717 shares. This implies the jalapeno operates at 14x the speed of your ~500 MH/s miner, or about 6.67 GH
• The AC adapter has 0 W idle usage? The kill-a-watt has 1 decimal place accuracy, so the AC adapter is using less than 0.05W idle.
• all the sucking up to BFL at the end. You either got a Little Single SC that hashes 6x less than advertised, or a Jalapeno that is 5x bigger than expected, and uses 5x the power

This is my only problem with the OP.   Although I like some of the other stuff he has written
http://codinginmysleep.com/interview-with-sonny-vleisides/

I'd be less worried about customs than I would be about when Singles are actually going to be manufactured by BFL.  Customs is the least of your worries until Singles actually exist.

Yay! Now to wait more months for my order.

Mother of god  :o

Did you guys not know that OP turns tricks, and flip flops more than a politician aka hooker

Custom BFL shipping boxes?  C'mon guys, we don't need the fancy schmancy!  Mount my single SC's in a shoe box, I don't care - just move 'em out!

This is an awesome news. Thanks for sharing the video

There is a lot of debate what this means.   I would think we should let the market tell us if this is real or not.   Just watch the price of ASICminer shares.   If they drop a lot, it probably means people believe BFL will actually ship and that will impact dividends.   If they do not, it means people do not believe this is anything important.
people can talk and talk is cheap, but watch what they do with their money for their true opinions.

Very nice vid man...thanks. Hope it turns out well for all involved. I really like the part where you mentioned checking the hash distribution.

+1

haha, so true lol.

This maybe a noob question.  But if this is the first time you have ever opened the box, then why when you plugged it in for the first time (and it said drivers not found) why did you immediately know that you were missing generic USB drivers...(that you found "embarrassing")?

My first instinct when plugging in a new device and seeing drivers not found would be to start rummaging around in the box for a driver disk?

Also (not directed to the OP) what is the thinking behind shipping out free demo models before shipping out (or even giving a concrete shipping date) for orders that were paid in full 10 months ago?

I was under the impression (from the BFL website) that there would be specialized software included to run with the asic products. Is it really just plug & play? also.. what is you 24 hr BTC reward looking like? I realize this all is variable from the network difficulty etc, but a ballpark figure would be nice to know.
thanks for the sharing mang! I thought the video quality was fine.

My guess is because he is using the FPGA Single already and ran into it before. You have to go through the same thing with the USB drivers for the latest versions of cgminer, so I would assume the same is true for bfgminer.

He paused recording the video, then restarted it. He even said "I'm going to pause it" He just didnt edit it very well.


This guy is really mad.

The way I see it, we are left with exactly two options here:

1. BFL is actually capable of putting out some real product, and slowly but surely they'll start shipping soon.

2. BFL has now taken the scam to a new level where they've written an app that appears to be a mining program, but in actuality it is just telling another set of miners back in Kansas to mine during that time to his pool, therefore giving the appearance of actually mining itself.

That would be pretty deep scamming indeed. I'm starting to waver in my belief now... But it sure would be a good test if we could isolate that box from BFL somehow while testing it.

Thanks, good vid!

Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner!

The Jalapeno is now sitting right next to my good old FPGA Single.

The bit about tipping over 50% was halsrious. Now what are the chances of that fancy box actually arriving to its destination?

C'mon grue. That means nothing. If you don't know what the submission difficulty is for each device you can't compare them. And even if they're the same, you still can't do a simple comparison like that. Even at D1 the variance in the number of shares submitted by the 50Mhps device will be high. If the expected number of shares was actually 51, then the 95% confidence interval would be 38 to 65 in the same time frame. 32% higher is no big deal.

Thanks for your review. It was very in-depth and appreciated.

Have you opened up the box yet and seen one of these inside?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/SSDTR-ASIC_technology.jpg

Perhaps one like that but with a BFL logo on it?  ;)

Technically they could still be scamming us all if the special miner they gave you is just a proxy for a real miner back in kansas. Any way to disprove that theory?

Thanks again!

Wow hater's just gonna hate aren't ya.  Jealously is an ugly emotion people.  Referring to half the posters in this thread.

Nice vid sir. 

Well done BFL also, no matter what.

I almost choked when I saw that  :-X  

Or they send out their dev boards they've been working on since last year and while everyone is busy testing and sheering that BFL will finally ship, they quietly close the shop and go underground.

It's right in the video that the submission difficulty for the ASIC is 1. Also, the hashrates between the two updates (of the ~500 MH/s miner) were fairly close to each other, so the variance is not a relevant issue.

It doesn't matter how close the updates are. Can't escape variance, even at D1. Much as I'd like to.

Good review and great to see BFL shipping something, even if it is a prerelease version to a very few select users.  What we're all looking forward to is BFL shipping an ASIC to people who ordered last year and aren't related to any blog or special interest group.

http://captionsearch.com/pix/4zg4fx8pgk.png
Awesome!
But only one sample is not a proof that they are not scammers. BFL could produce (or order someone else) a very small amount of chips to lure more people. At least some more reviews are required to belive them.

Give it a rest and admit you want one.

30 watts?  Jesus, that's 6 times the power draw that BFL said the jalapeno was supposed to have

That means that the 50-60GH/s miner from BFL will consume 300w+, which really isn't much different from the Avalon (and well beyond their specified range)

That guy has a 5gh/s mining little box and a wife...

I HATE MYSELF  :-[

hahahaha.


I cant wait to get my jalapeno!

Enmaku, could you please open up your device, take photos of chips, and perhaps a thermal image is possible?

Why do you look so grumpy in the vid?

you don't know anything about pcb and integrated circuit conception and production, do you ? Make one real working product is WAY more expensive than a whole bunch of them ...
The more you make the cheaper it becomes as dev cost are shared among each product.

stop hating. Some people want to discourage people from buying so that difficulty will stay low and less product sold. stop being so selfish.

Avalon is up around 600W very different

Thanks for the video.
Well done.

I hope the ATX cable comes also with the SC Single.

Yes it is nice. But only for modular ATX power supply ? Should have been male and not female (or the other way around) to be compatible with any atx power supply ...

Only Jalap's exist.  The Single SC's and Minirigs are far far far from our reach.

it would be really good to only have jalapenos everywhere,
that would mean small miners will have a chance.
some people having 5 x 60GH/s versus 5x 5GH/s.

Lemme guess; you're either from Europe, Oz, or you're an American Progressive... Amirite?

Are you implying something here?

go big or go home :P

Enmaku, could you please open up your device, take photos of chips, and perhaps a thermal image is possible?

give us the next vid please!

Uhhh good luck with that.

Great video, made me purchase 2 x 5GHs ;-)

it should be fair... then again, from his expertise which is mostly web software, not sure if he's able to do that...

Can you share more about the new single case?

it still doesn't exist...

And that's why they shipped the first unit to a blogger.

PR win.

lol, it called social media ;-) and least it tells me that something exists. I was originally planning on getting the 50 GH but until that comes out ....... atleast in 4 month we can get a hold of something that's from a n external source works and it probably the best on the market.

please elaborate...

Can I have a link or torrent to the full AVI file?  Where I am I cannot watch things as they download.

Google download youtube video.

The BFL box has nothing in it! It connects remotely to a set of GPUs at BFL over the internet.

TRUE!

30W to run a fan and an LED.  No wonder they had power problems!  :P

poking the bloggers pride in order to get him to stop mining and rip apart his new toy... to discover it's probably only filled with a few of these:

http://www.voelkner.de/products/51970/100-xl.jpg

Can't wait until they get the assembly line down and start shipping!

 ;D

Yea, a few dev units.

And it tells us that their design works. Although with much higher power consumption.

In that case please do excuse my request for the only logical thing a first owner should do to debunk all the concerned people...

I don't want to cause him to loose money, no, he should never switch it off for 5 minutes... 5 min of 5ghash is like $2...

:D

Stop posting the same damn pic over and over...once was to much...lol

As this was a dev board.....more then likely free....open that thing already. Their are thousands of ppl that HAVE paid good money that have nothing...let us at least see what is inside...Thanks...

If OP gives the device to a competing company like Avalon, would they be able to reverse-engineer it and "steal" ideas to make it easier to make another miner?

So the jalapeno has 2 underclocked chips!

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/36156/flight-of-the-butterfly-plan-b-3/ (http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/36156/flight-of-the-butterfly-plan-b-3/)

Tell us more about the 50GH single case!

hahahahha wow.

there goes more chips.

Has anyone else received one yet?

And that also means the "little" has 8 chips, so then the single will have 2 boards alongside the integrated PSU!

I do hope BFL will give us the choice between 2 littles and a monster single (with unwelcomed additional fan for PSU?).

Soon™ https://twitter.com/BFL_News (https://twitter.com/BFL_News)

wow, dude, can't believe I had never heard of JB before.

Thank you very much...

....how much?

.0321 btc incoming in ... 3... 2... 1.... oh wait, forgot to add transaction fee... this might take a while ;)

:edit: how does the network figure out what a fair transaction fee is anyways? .0005 on this transaction is like 8 cents! that's like 1.6%!! I feel like I'm being robbed blind here!!! (*finds a dime in the couch*) oh, ok, I don't feel so bad now.  ;D

The fact that BFL announced 'we are shipping', followed by 'a total of 12 units in 2 days' is fucking pathetic.

"Because we have not shipped for such a long time PayPal is requiring us to ship a small number of the orders made through them and send them the tracking numbers."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/137-first-most-boring-update.html

Awesome.... so much for 1/3 plan.

One of the first customer units...is a dud.

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1GrnJaLaQeTPWqyWLXGAvTCDhXkSBDUx8Z

Code for: There has been so many refunds via PayPal, they have limited us.

I read a few of the replies to Jody's post and took note that earlier orders were place via Bitcoin via BitPay. How is that PayPal orders get process first?

They seem to have a myriad of clusterfucks all going on at the same time, and I wouldn't be surprised if they forget to place the UL, FCC and CE labels on any of the outgoing units due to be overwhelmed with all the chaos, notwithstanding the MineCraft tournament coming up and the cancellation of the Kansas City Airshow.

People can say what they want about them, but they are one of the best at coming up with excuses.  ;D

Custom BFG Software?

Depending on how good at coding they are, surely they can make that executable display anything they like? FPGA anyone??

Just sayin'....

Hmm,

About .25BTC per day. (@ Current difficulty, which will only last about 5 more days)

By the way, this is a duplicate thread, if anyone wants to see the original announcement:


BFL: Chips have shipped, on their way to US (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=142098.0)

Someone explain to me, why Paypal would even care. They get payed for the shipping service (the more units shipping the better?) and any chargeback period of money sent through paypal have already expired?

BFL_Jody:

"It's not because of chargebacks. The customers are not triggering this. It's to give PayPal themselves peace of mind"

"Jalapenos only at this point. DarkMatter did not get a tracking number. I can send him one if he likes, but it won't be for his package. I told you about the few related to PayPal because I could not in good conscience say, "Only orders made on June 23 went out today," because that would be untrue. I want to give only the facts here."

So basically order with PayPal and they will legally force BFL to bump you in the queue!?

<Cough> Jody, jody jody.

I somehow don't think PayPal is going to be comforted (in any way!) by you shipping out a few dozen orders...after almost a year...out of 10,000+ orders.

I "think" what happened is people read my previous postings and started opening disputes. That led to issues with Paypal investigating...or at least I'd think it would. Though Jody says this is not the case....yeah sure.

-----------------

I know one merchant account I had required me to post a ton of Shipping numbers as a standard security check. I didn't do anything particularly wrong though, it was just a normal thing. In this case though, the day after Josh and I had a few spaz words...makes me think it is not a coincidence.

Paypal is unlikely to solicit you for orders made 7+ months ago. Paypal knows (just as any merchant account company knows) that after 90+ days, the numbers get reused for different customers. Be it USPS, UPS, or Fedex.

I "speculate" that the more likely scenario is that Paypal got a wiff that something was amiss and they asked for the last 90 days worth of shipping numbers. Not by "types of product" I would think. That is something that seems in-congruent and illogical to me for Paypal to do. They (and their insurance) are on the hook for millions if BFL does anything odd or out of character with their merchant account.

(My speculative hypothesis is the following:)
More than likely a couple of customers complained to Paypal after reading Josh and I going "spastic" about Paypal refunds. Paypal then conducts "an audit" of their merchant account. BFL has to scramble to come up with tons of tracking numbers to comply with the request.

Honestly though, I wouldn't know how they could explain that their tracking numbers are pretty damn new compared to the order date. I highly doubt they will pass the audit for that reason alone. (assuming there is an audit...which there appears to be).

If they fail to produce, things can only get worse as Paypal will likely freeze the account and refund every customer transaction at once. Which will likely cause Bank issues at BFL's end.

-----------------------------

Then again, what do I know? You'd probably be better off listening to Jody's version of events. I am sure her account of events are going to be mighty consistent and logical....right?  ::) (Be less vague Jody!)

By the way,

Since I have my own "ideas" and "conspiracy" theories. I am going to say this prediction. That BFL won't tell anyone who they have to ship to, what order number it may be, or even acknowledge that these folks have gotten their products. (and I am not talking about developers)

Why?

Because then people would want to know what probably "triggered it" and how to skip the queue...pronto~!

People are already thinking this on the BFL forum (in the blogs). So it won't be long before BFL starts avoiding the questions that Jalapeno customers will want to know the most about.

"If you ship some persons Jalapeno before mine...why did that happen exactly? Paypal "forced" you to do this? Then how do I force Paypal to force you to ship mine now? etc."

-------------------------

Personally, I am waiting for the geniuses at BFL forums to figure out that alot of them paid through another Payment Processor called BitPay. Which means they are probably afforded protections like that of Paypal*. With the folks of BitPay being capable of forcing BFL to do pretty much the same things.

It's kind of common sense. Lets hope the BFL forums figure this out.

*Well one hopes BitPay affords their customers actual protection! (Or even enforces "standards" on their merchants)

I actually hope you are right: then if BFL survives the mass cancellation cashflow wise, I will be bumped in the queue enormously since I ordered with BTC. I think PayPal customers would then talk to PayPal and it would result in a class action suit against them from angry customers missing out on the last opportunity in BTC ever.

I think you just have to realize no matter how hard you try to convince people BFL is scam, you are doing it to improve your own difficulty, and it's transparent.

Your thinking about this backwards.

Think of it as BFL having to "actually ship" the products people pay for (after an unreasonably long delay).

If you think about it that way, there is no problem. If you also think about it...BFL has said they are a week (ish) from shipping en mass. If that is so, there aren't going to be any "mass cancellations", just mass shipping.

------------------

But if you are ok with the current status quo, simply keep thinking negatively. Last I checked, some customers are getting (pre-production) hardware. That is a bonus. BFL just needed a candle to be lit under their proverbial bottom.

@enmaku
please open it and make inside pics  :o

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/hardware-discussion/1983-grnbrgs-unboxing-teardown-new-bitforce-5-gh-s-sc-miner.html

one chip instead of two... priceless!
No wonder that they tried to keep it a secret.

lmao!

Define happy dude?

Exactly. It doesn't look that bad after all. If normal (customer) jalapenos have two underclocked chips, they should have potential to be overclocked to ~8GH/s. With proper cooling of course.

I'd be happy if it shipped 6 months ago with problems. What a joke.

This is actually interesting:

1 chip fullspeed = 25W and 4.1GH
2 chips underclocked = 32W and 5.5GH

This is REALLY interesting for overclocking!!!

Still has the problem that 8 chips will never be able to give 50GH...

@grnbrg we'll see how long that poor little chip lasts! ;)

He got a free 4Gh/s review unit. What's not to be happy about?

What about everyone else?

Really?

They throw dog shit at people 6 months later and they are happy? Come on.

Only 21 days late for the bet  :D

Happy = receiving a machine that will make you ~$1000 a month (at current difficulty, at least) for free

Jealous = making fun of someone for being happy. I'm jealous too.

For what it's worth....

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/110174663470490530041/albums/5870611557972117729

How much were you paid to use such a ridiculous title for this thread?


You could have used: it is not a scam, BUY BUY BUY!

I can imagine how much you were paid. You were paid..... A Jalapeno. Nice and cheap way to buy someone.

Shame on you.

I wonder if you can get even higher in the queue by ordering with PayPal and then immediately canceling your PayPal account?

This doesn't even make sense.  Why is "it is not a scam, BUY BUY BUY!" a better title than what OP chose?

You would accept the bet as fulfilled now? I wouldn't.

They apparently are shipping what they can now...

https://twitter.com/bobmcmillan/status/327471533343768576

That's irony. I meant that "it is not a scam, BUY BUY BUY!" is as ridiculous as the thread title. Is obvious advertising in order to trap more poor newbies in their pre-order scheme.

Whats the scheme again? Take off with people preoders money or sell asics that they demostrated they do have now at 400% profit margin(and thats being conservative)?

Can you walk me through your conservative math please?  I assume by "profit margin" you mean markup (or a 75% gross margin) or maybe you actually mean Josh has promised investors' a "profit that is 4X revenue", that would be a whole new thread though.
Try to remember the price has changed so you need to use the actual revenue that they should recognize as they ship.   I am actually interested.   I can help you start if you want.
$149 Revenue (let's assume they b/e on shipping).
COGS (according to conservative estimate of intern):  $37.25.
So, you claim it is very conservative to assume their 2 chip jallie costs them less than $37.25 to make.   Can you please break it down for us who are not as wise as you please?

It's obvious advertising, sure.  Trap more poor newbies in their pre-order scheme?  I disagree.  Everyone has the opportunity to weigh the pros and cons of preordering, and everyone has a choice of whether to preorder or not.  I see no scheme here.

costs been broken down before by people faaaaaar smarter than me, which is mostly everyone.

either way - question is what is this alleged scheme ? to run away with money now vs continuing revenue stream. From my own observances seems to be the continuing revenue.

I get the animosity towards bfl because of josh and the delays, but from what i see they are an actual business  with facilities employees etc. They shipped fpga product and asics now. Really , do you seriously still think its a scheme, vs poor project and perception mangement?

I would think COGS on a Jallie would be around $80.  Then there are operating costs (think rent, wages of 22, electric, ads, phone etc) to cover with the gross profit of $67, which they could not cover at this production rate.
So, to answer your other question, it really depends on what you mean by scam/scheme.   Using pre-order money to conduct research and development of a product you have no experience nor idea how to produce is a scam.   It was not presented that way.   It was not presented as "give me your money to TRY and make an asic but btw, I have never done this before and I am assuming you can google a clue (or buy one with a quarter so to speak)".
It was presented as "we will ship an amazing product in three months and everyone else is an idiot (implying BFL were the EXPERTS at making ASICS).   That is a scam.

To your point of "they are now delivering".   Everyone here understands that delivering at a 14,000GH/s Network rate compared to at 120,000GH/s is VERY different.  When you have been emphatically told you are receiving it at the 14,000 point and you get it when the device will produce 1/9th of what you assumed, you have been scammed.

Sort of like pre-ordering a betamax and getting it in 1988.

It's not a scam if you get your money back.  BFL has always honored refund requests.

BFL also made no guarantees regarding the network difficulty.

It is also worth noting that, between June 23rd and today, the price of BTC has gone up 27x while the difficulty has gone up 9x.  So, it is actually 3 times as profitable to mine today as it was back on June 23rd, 2012.  If anything, isn't that the opposite of scam?  The money-making product you bought will actually make 3 times MORE money as was projected when you first ordered it?

You are being very liberal with your scam label. If you dont know the risks then its on you, the investor. This applies to everythign in bitcin, trading them otc buying asics, even buying gpu rigs. Bitcoins could easily drop to zero value tomorrow. Then does that make avalon scammers for selling machines that do nothing?

Look, you and I are not going to agree on the semantics of this BUT what I would ask you to think about is whether the above is reasonable to bring into the debate at all?   BFL has no control over that only over their claims of being superior and their constant claims of delivering in the fall of 2012.

I would argue that your statement above is akin to the 100 MPG car company citing a drop in the price of gas as an excuse as to why my 100 MPG car, that only gets 30MPG is "fine".  

Exactly. BFL, avalon, asicminer are all selling machines that do the hash. Thats it. anything else is on you to determine for your risk tolerance.

If you can't take it that they didnt ship. get a friggin refund, no one was stopping you from doing it. They will become a scam once you can neither get the product or your money back. Those are 2 valid options any court will look at before determine a default of obligation in a sales contract.

minternj;
I am not trying to be rude, but what state bar did you pass?  I think you should use google and come back with why your statement is incorrect.    Just because "I am willing to give you a refund" (after I fail to deliver on my contract) does not end my liability for that failure.   
We are not going to agree so I will leave it at that.   You do understand the difference between civil and criminal court correct? 

I passed the same bar that you did. And yes its rude to think your psuedo law knowledge is better than mine. I stayed at a holiday inn express so it makes me an expert. I know that most sales issues are a civil matter. In these cases they want you to resolve before bringing to court. Judges want you to arbitrate before bringing a case to court. If one party refunds you the money back, the matter is pretty much dead. But again, unless you are trying to claim some kind of damages, (lol try explaining difficulty changes and lost minging profits to a judge) i doubt you have any case.

http://waterboyz.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ScreenHunter_14-Jan.-23-03.21.jpg

Doh!

Dude, you were the one who brought money-making into the debate in the first place:
And I don't know why you brought that up, only to later say this:
If you're going to argue about something, at least be consistent about where you stand.

tx enmaku for additional info!

This was actually rehashed several times in several threads, but I can post a summary here:

Under federal law, several elements are required to prove fraud: a material false statement made with an intent to deceive, a victim’s reliance on the statement and damages.
You can look that up here. http://www.federalcrimefaq.com/what-constitutes-the-crime-of-wire-fraud/
BFL saying they had a prototype and a shipping date when they obviously did not and taking peoples money under those pretenses could not have been an accident. There was clear intent to deceive about the current and state shipping date of BFLs products.
I think everyone who made a BFL purchase relied on the shipping dates provided in order to calculate their risk and return.
The damages are trivial to illustrate, plug a Jalapeno in and it generates a revenue stream. Loss of that promised revenue stream is all you need tell the judge.

You cannot undo a criminal act just by giving a refund or any other act of goodwill for that matter. It is also not clear what would happen to BFL if everyone asked for a refund at the same time, if BFL did not spend any of the pre-order cash, why did they need to take pre-orders? If they did spend some of the pre-order cash and something goes wrong (spending out of control due to over optimistic schedules for instance), then not everyone could get a refund.

This all sounds well and good, but missing the one key thing... IF you want criminal penalties, either state or federal, you'll need to convince an overworked DA to actually investigate and then once they are convinced of wrongdoing and the possibility of successful prosecution to actually prosecute this. Now seeing as they are shipping something that resembles what they promised... Good Luck.

Me: Hey, I have a tip. There is this company that I believe is engaged in fraud.
DA: Why do you think they are committing fraud?
Me: Because they take several million dollars from thousands of customers and don't deliver 99.99% of the time. They simply refund your money with money from newer customers.
DA: What?! That almost sounds like a Ponzi scheme and outright fraud.
Me: I know, right?
Me: Please, investigate!

Interesting Discussion. Fraud both civilly and criminally are very closely related; although more commonly pursued in Civil court unless notorious, widespread or egregiousness:

Criminal fraud requires criminal intent on the part of the perpetrator, and is punishable by fines or imprisonment. Civil fraud, on the other hand, applies more broadly to circumstances where bad-faith is usually involved, and where the penalties are meant to punish the perpetrator and put the victim back in the same position before the fraud took place. The second point is important because civil proceeding are designed to put parties in an equity based pre harm condition and are not designed to assign criminal guilt.

While the exact wording of fraud charges varies among state and federal laws. the essential elements needed to prove a fraud claim in general include: (1) a misrepresentation of a material fact; (2) by a person or entity who knows or believes it to be false; (3) to a person or entity who justifiably relies on the misrepresentation; and (4) actual injury or loss resulting from his or her reliance.

Most DA's will only pursue a criminal fraud charge if there are clear signs of a all the elements of the crime. In my opinion refunding money when requested and the commencement of performance would tend to chill most DA's from pursuing such a charge. One can always bring a personal suit if they feel they were wronged, have proper standing in court and that the court can offer a legal remedy to redress the harm.

In my completely personal opinion (purely academic  - non legal advice), I do not see clearly all the elements of fraud from either a civil or criminal standpoint. One could argue breach of contract perhaps, but the best you could hope for would normally be the return of your money, which apparently can be procured through less expensive means then litigation. The hope for punitive damages springing from a breach of contract case would most likely be slim in this instance if at all.

Again, my personal advice is, ask for a refund if you are unhappy with BFL's progress. If you do not have an order pending with BFL, then you are not a proper plaintiff and would not have grounds for legal action and I question what you hope to derive from the time spent discussing this matter. If one requests a refund and is refused, which I have not heard of happening, then you can certainly seek a legal redress. That said, you would still have to prove breach of contract by BFL, which may or may not work in your favor depending on the legitimacy of your argument and the skill of your lawyer.

I fully understand that some people dislike BFL per se, and I am sure that one or more will respond to this post. I tried to be objective and merely state my understanding of the present state of affairs and the options likely open to people. For purposes of contextual disclosure, I have a preorder with BFL. I do not believe they have engaged in criminal or civilly pursuable  fraud. They have had many challenges and continue to work through them. The original specs have changed and will likely change before final shipment. While there appears to be ample material to demand a refund if I so wished, I am content to take receipt of the whatever substantially conforming goods they can produce. I do not see a financially viable alternative, so BFL still appears to be my best option for setting up a mining operation with ASICs. It appears to me that they are getting close to resolution having seen several of the 5gh/s units in action. Could my position change? Sure, anyone of a number of things could alter it, but for now I am planning to see it through.

If you are a preorder customer, you have to make your own similar decision, which may or may not be contrary to mine.