Bitcoin Forum

Why are they taking SO long to take a god damn decision? Why can't these old fucks hurry up and tell us what's up? It's friday night, I don't feel like siting on my computer for the rest of the day, just give us a god damn verdict you pricks, and you better approve or else you'll look like retards eventually by not accepting this post-bitcoin reality. You can't stop it.

The SEC has always fucked with us.
Why should it be any different now?

Yeah because of that event, I forced myself to stay awake because I have active funds waiting for my trading moves as I don't want to be late or something. Right now it's 4am here and just 5 hours from now I will officially reached my 24 hours awake although just fine since today is my restday.

Even I use price alarms today, it's useless because Im already tired. Now having a bunch of coffee while watching the price growth and it's moving up again because less than few hours ago it was moving only around $1,240 up.

We need the SEC's decision so that we are all are not just speculating.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-rejects-winklevoss-bitcoin-etf/

Well that was it.  Sadly SEC just saw Bitcoin market not complying with their standard policies to be approved.  And they do not want to adjust for Bitcoin sake.  Aside from seeing flaw from inconsistency of proposal, the history of unregulated market make it worst.  Anyway, just another set back of Bitcoin but well I think we need to move on now.

Here is added news (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-crashes-after-the-sec-rejects-the-wiklevoss-twins-etf-2017-3) about it.

Yes, they tried crashing BTC and are now shitting their pants that they could barely nick it..

is bad bitcoin price crash and down price after SEC rejected
what is the future about bitcoin, what is SEC or USA can closed all exchanger

I heard it was this post that cause the SEC to decide to decline the application for the Bitcoin Trust ETF.

They don't take lightly to this sass and being called "Old Fucks". They noted that the average age of the white gentlemen on the board is 62, hardly old enough to be considered "Fucks".

The also didn't appreciate being threatened with the assumption that they may look like "retards".

Some people!?


I hope no one relied on this post to get the news. At 50 minutes after the announcement one would have missed the opportunity to sell on the news! I didn't find out until late as well, but I never intended to sell on the action.

It was not meant to be a news flash on the decision, just an answer to the question "is the SEC fucking with us?"

That is the point, we need to move on now. Bitcoin will survive for sure, it's not the end of the currency. Good investors will continue supporting bitcoin and developers too. Many other technology apprentices are joining the crypto currency world.
Bitcoin isn't important for SEC, but it's important for us and that is what matters now, nothing changed.

Meh, I don't see it as a setback, but the market obviously did.  However, as I write this we're rebounding nicely.  This is actually like just another volatile day in bitcoinland.  Down $100, up $100.  I don't see the real importance of having an ETF other than allowing gigantic whales to enter an otherwise very small market.  But we'll see.  We could go sub-$1000 soon.

ETF approval would cause bitcoin's price to double or possible triple because of influx of institutional capital to still not that big market.
So if we are thinking of BTC as long-distance investment strategy then ETF denial is a actually a good thing.
It will give us time to buy cheaper coins (always buy when there is panic selling) and gear up for the bright future.

The decision arrived and I’m sure probably anyone that bothered to read  a little bit about the decision knew the decision was going to be against bitcoin and it was, bitcoin lost some value and rebounded a little, not much to see and it was basically what I was expecting.

This really would be a landmark decision, do you think it should be taken so lightly? I'm glad they took the time to decide on what exactly is going to happen and I think it really shows where bitcoin is at this time. They didn't accept it because it is not regulated and doesn't have enough surveillance, I think this fact will stand out in the future to trade platforms. Now that this happened we should move on, price has already been rising back to normal and I think this is a good step for bitcoin.

Well the decision has just been made and it's not in favour of us unfortunately. However I do feel like that they have really taken their time with the verdict as surely all the points they've mentioned would have appeared since their first meeting or something like that. These points are so obvious in nature that a newbie could have guessed it.

But obviously I'm sure Sec knows how big this decision is, as it is the first bitcoin etf.

I can only imagine what the winklevoss twins reactions were. Probably didn't even get any sleep for the past week and now they are up to face the media and all that jack.

But yeah, as a community we should move on.

How long do you want to keep buying coins? At some point, we have to realize the gains from our investment. You do not want to carry your bitcoins to your grave.
I would have been okay with the ETF approval. It would have been a step forward. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.

Relax man, you don't need to be hysterical like that. Approve or disapproved it doesn't matter, but I am much in favor that sec will disapprove ETF, besides bitcoin reached the price value it has now not because of them but because of the people who get interest to buy and to use the features and concepts of bitcoin. :)

It's denied for those of you that didn't see the $200 crash and can't seem to google anything. They fucked around and in the end said they wouldn't do it because it didn't abide by their 4580 rules ... who gives a fuck. Bitcoins are unregulated but they want them to be regulated before it's approved. It's never going to happen, but the ETF will happen eventually.

I don't want to badmouth anyone. No way around it, I'm afraid.  :(

This is what governments always do.

They use things like legalized marijuana, gay marriage, healthcare and bitcoin ETF's as bargaining chips.

They stall and sabotage progress until the public is desperate enough to accept a bill legalizing marijuana/gay marriage/healthcare reform/bitcoin ETF's funded by 20 tax hikes which diminish Constitutional rights & freedom.

Its what happened with obamacare. They waited and stalled healthcare reforms for decades until americans were desperate enough to accept anything. And what they got were 20 tax hikes, ridiculous regulations which decreased market competition and setup healthcare more into a system of state sanctioned monopolies, which prohibited industry advancement and increased costs, with very few improvements on healthcare for consumers.

I was foolish to be optimistic about the SEC approving it.

Honestly, I don't consider legalizing marijuana and gay marriage as progress

Regarding this ETF specifically, I have yet to see why this ETF would be of any purpose to Bitcoin long term. Legalizing it doesn't necessarily mean that institutional investors (like pension funds and similar entities) would all of a sudden start pouring the money they manage into Bitcoin (thereby rising prices indefinitely and ultimately losing their clients' funds). Whatever the circumstances, we should remain realists. This rejection should have been expected and all the price moves we saw yesterday must have been interpreted and acted upon accordingly (i.e. taking every opportunity to profit)

Well eventually bitcoin ETF was dumped by the United States of Americas Security and Exchange Commission or SEC. I dont get the clear reason why they disapprove the bitcoin ETF. In my opinion it is possibly because of bitcoins volatility and the SEC is worrying that this kind of bitcoin nature will cause many investors to big a loss amount when the sudden volatility occurs.

It's definitely partially that, but I think their main reasons were concerns with fraud and protecting the safety of their investors.

The reasons they gave are unfortunately based around the fundamental nature of Bitcoin which makes me less confident that they'll ever approve the ETF in the future.  They said "the rules of a national securities exchange [should] be designed to prevent fraudulent and manipulative acts and practices and to protect investors and the public interest".  They also noted that "those markets should be regulated".

Yes, it is their primary job to protect investors. They have just played safe in this case by rejecting the ETF.
You cannot blame them for doing their job.

I don't understand all this indignation and frustration at the SEC rejection

Or did you guys really hope that ordinary people which typically don't have a clue about financial markets in particular and investments in general would be allowed to rush into Bitcoin, thus making Bitcoin prices skyrocket? The SEC is not there to let you, self proclaimed "early adopters", quickly jump from zero to hero, from rugs to riches at someone else's expense. You should have been extremely lucky to jump on the Bitcoin bandwagon really early and stay through all the pain to reap the fruits when the right time comes

This is also the thing that puts in my mind in the rejection of ETF and honestly i do think this stuff already when we are still waiting on their decision and now those speculations and insights are true and they did reject which i really expect from them since they do know the effects if they would decide to accept it.

Those bastards did what I expected. Delaying the damn thing for hours, waited for the markets to close so people can't buy the dip, and then boom there you go, the crash happens.

It was great to see bitcoin recover so quickly. Bitcoin comes out stronger than before thanks to the ETF rejection after all. Fuck them bureaucrats, we dont need them to go the moon.

As it was already told, even no ETF related thing happen, bitcoin will definitely move forward.

The price increase that happen starting from $500 couple of years ago up to today at $1,000 above mark doesn't have that ETF speculation thing so basically it's just an event but not to take as the main thing that will make bitcoin price to crash deeply like others trolls said. They even think that dissapproval by the SEC will be the end of this price rally trend. Look at how price just recover for only minutes after it was brought down to below $1,000.

We can clearly see how strong the resistance is at above $1,000. This is really what you called a literal "established support".

You seem to be misunderstanding the whole shebang

What you consider as Bitcoin coming out stronger is no more than Bitcoin manipulators letting the market go off leash for some time (i.e. right now). Did you notice how the price had surged a few hours before the SEC announced their decision? It was iconic (so to speak) example of genuine market manipulation. People had been waiting for a sign that somehow SEC was going to approve this wretched ETF. They saw the price rising and bought into this believing that insiders were buying up bitcoins before the price hit the sky. While in reality they had been stripped off of their money as per usual. If there were no such manipulation, the price wouldn't have gone down even 50 dollars after the decision was finally announced. Most likely, it would just remain where it is now, i.e. around 1,200 dollars per coin

What's the big deal?  GBTC has been/is available right now.  Yes, the GBTC 2% per year fee is obnoxious and I would have preferred the 0.4% per fee on COIN but so it goes.  If any investors want in bad enough then they can already get in via GBTC.  The lower annual fee of COIN isn't that big a deal.

The whole point of bitcoin is to be a counter force to the currencies of the governments, while ETF approval would have put more money in the bitcoin economy and our pockets, so what if it was denied? Anyone that wants to invest in bitcoin can do so now, we did not lost a thing by the decision.

Most of us are disappointed with the SEC decision, but let's be honest. We were just thinking about our own ass, hoping a big incrase of the bitcoin price and basically just don't give a shit about others things... I am finally not surprised with the decision to be honest. It could have helped with seeing some big investors coming but just "could". It is a conditionnal statement and not a "directive" that would happened if the decision was ok.
At the end, do we really need the SEC approval for the future of bitcoin ? No

More like down 200 up 150 the way I logged in and was surprised by the (very) temporary effect of this news. It is slightly strange that something only in the US would move the market the way it did. Sure it wasn't just the appreciation of the USD in general?

That is right and we cannot really blame the Sec for not approving the ETF. Before any approval any applications will undergo a rigid process and study if they will pass the standard requirement of the SEC. But since the ETF did not received approval we should just accept that the SEC is just doing its job and are just concerned about the safety of the public.

The US dollar seems to be rock solid nowadays (i.e. neither here nor there)

Therefore, Bitcoin price swings are entirely due to its own change in value. Regarding the temporary effect of the news about the SEC not approving the ETF, that should have really been expected. Apart from the obvious price manipulation just before and right after the news came out, there shouldn't have been much change anyway. Primarily because a negative decision had already been priced in and accounted for. If the ETF had been approved, however, that would certainly push the price a lot higher, but without the approval we are basically where we were and things go on as per usual

If you are not following the news?  ETF was soothed down by American security and exchange commission on 10th march 2017. But did you know that market could not even move as the prophets of doom has prophesied before the news was broken last week. Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto currencies and treat as stock will undermined it value as money.

Apparently Bitcoin, the Honey Badger of currencies, doesn't give a fnck about the SEC or ETF denial. It just keeps on keeping on. It wasn't dependent on an ETF approval in the previous 8 years of its existence. Why should it have to be now?

I guess the thread is started before the SEC rejected the ETF and he could not possibly know the news which was delivered .If the SEC was fucking with bitcoin they should have rejected long back and since they rejected it at the day of decision makes me think that they are really confused and wanted to wait a bit to accept it and once it is approved it will be a major decision and could have some major implications in the economy.

True words.

I for one am happy that they rejected the EFT.
That would have made it very easy to manipulate, just like the gold EFT.

It's because the SEC's mandate is to protect investors, and there's no way they can do that with bitcoin. They cite the fact that the exchanges that bitcoin currently trades on are unregulated and subject to manipulation, and that there's no way to discern the forces behind bitcoin price movements due to it's anonymous nature, as major reasons a bitcoin ETF would be not suitable for them to approve at this time. Keep in mind, there are still two other bitcoin ETF proposals that have been submitted to them and are still pending, but you should anticipate the same result. I don't find it terribly important, this alone is not a large stumbling block in bitcoin's future compared to the ones it creates itself.

Bitcoin doesn't have trading hours, and the markets don't close for bitcoin trading. It's standard operating procedure for major decisions like this to be released after market close on a Friday to give traders a chance to digest the news over the weekend to tamp down on volatility, but that doesn't even matter in this case since bitcoin doesn't have trading hours and the exchanges never close. Nothing the SEC did stopped anyone from buying the dip, and to those who did, congratulations on your easy gain in the hours that followed.

They are hypocrites as they have always been

Realistically, though, they should have taken a decision they have taken. In this case, it should pretty evident to anyone with a (half) functioning brain that the primary reason that the twins filed an application for approving the Bitcoin mutual fund was their intent to move from basically a bag holder position into a bag giver position. I think if they wanted they could just manage someone else's money but then they would be personally responsible before that investor, and this is likely not what they may be looking for. Nevertheless, they have 100M dollar worth of bitcoins, so what prevents them right now from doing basically the same what the Bitcoin ETF is supposed to be doing anyway (i.e. earning cash via Bitcoin operations, for example, trading)?

SEC has taken decision to protect the investors. Now it is interesting to understand who are these investors? These are high profile financial institutes, big banks who rules and regulate the market. Stock market or commodity market was never for common man, it was always a tool for these financial investors to earn profit. SEC did just that they protected the interest of investors.
Anyway bitcoin in its nature is decentralized and cannot be regulated thus it becomes a lose canon for SEC if anything goes wrong with bitcoin.

I think SEC is not trying to fucking with us now, Maybe because during the time that they've been thinking about how are they gonna have benefit into bitcoin. But I remembered what I read in the cointelegraph saying that " Thanks SEC for reminding us that Bitcoin isn't controlled by wall street. Now lets get back to business." This make sense, right? the hell we care ;)

Certainty of SEC decision is an incentive from ETFbtc to go to Wall Street, if the decision is approved, it will bring volume greater from investor, but unfortunately it didn't happen. I welcome the rejection decision with positive feedback, bitcoin back to state as usual, where there is no regulation of the market means not kill bitcoin technological innovation.

That is a big IF on its own

I obviously don't refer here to whether this decision is approved or not (since it is not approved already), I'm doubtful that this ETF would necessarily bring more money into Bitcoin. It seems to an overall assumption across the forum to be so, but why would the institutional investors ever want that? Do we see many big fish going into Bitcoin right now (of George Soros and Warren Buffett caliber)? Apart from the Winklevoss dudes themselves, there is none, therefore, there is absolutely no reason to think that the Bitcoin ETF, should it have gotten approved, would bring in any substantial amounts of fresh money. No matter how interested we could be in that, we should remain realists, in the first place

The US markets is not a market it is an important market, personally I don't think the news itself was the reason behind it, it was just an excuse for traders to crash the market, get their profits and buy again at a cheaper price.

I don't think that Sec is fucking with us, maybe they've been thinking a lot of things of where and how they're gonna get a benefit of bitcoin once they approve it, are they able to make bitcoin centralize? Something like that. But that's not what happen, instead bitcoin proved only that it can't be control even the government of each country, nor other private sectors.

You need to decide what you want from Bitcoin. Or the legalization and tranquil use of bitcoin, or to keep and use your coins secretly from the government. If the government recognizes bitcoin, then users will lose some of the virtues of bitcoin.

On the mark. It's out of the bag already, since they can't do too much to regulate at this point, adoption for them doesn't really offer any advantages. But, the hesitant hand with definitive regulation does alot to keep the price in check ;) when the right people get a chance to position into bitcoin like they want to (and when regulations address how corporate entitities can hold/speculate with cryptos), you will see a slew of regulation, and institutional investor interest.

I think SEC is also trying to learn from us and I guess bitcoin is still not matured enough for them. Two rejections gave us their message. However, time is on our side and they will soon realize this.

Let's don't give up hope and try again!

Learn for what? Otherwise, we must learn from the SEC decision about the Bitcoin ETF. There are some aspects were prevent SEC from accepting bitcoin for the WallStreet person

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312513279830/d562329ds1.htm#.

Why should we try again?

Why should we try at all in the first place? I understand why some folks who have 100M dollars invested in bitcoins can be striving for an ETF, but should we ever want some SEC interfere with Bitcoin at all? As it seems to me, Bitcoin can live well enough without any ETF (and SEC, for that matter) sticking around. I don't have anything against people creating Bitcoin mutual funds or anything similar which involves managing other people money, but I'm highly suspicious of any activity which involves billing and cooing with some government agency about Bitcoin. This doesn't bode well for it

In my understanding, SEC wants bitcoin get established in terms of regulation. Due to the decentralized characteristics of bitcoin ecosystem, it would be obvious that in any government's view bitcoin is still in its early stage like not having any set of rule for emergency downfall or no uniform procedures for any management related decisions across exchanges.

Bitcoiners foresee there will be no regulations needed but governments want corporate standard for regulations.

Until SEC understands how bitcoin is working, I guess there will be no changes we could expect from them on approving bitcoin ETF.

I believe Bitcoin doesn't depends on being listed on any centralized stock exchange and the current price reflects it, Bitcoin is a p2p network not any financial regulated bond or currency, Bitcoin and crypto ecosystem should look for a decentralized exchange giant in the future not looking into current stock market.

The disapproval of SolidX ETF was the second time that occurred to bitcoin.  The first was the Twin etf and was junked also by the Securities and Exchange Commission months ago. We cannot deny that bitcoins nature itself being a decentralized currency has freed itself from any regulations and has also freed itself from the SEC's approval. We do not need ETF what we want is just bitcoin to survive.

For me it doesn't matter if SEC fucking with us or not, Actually we supposed to be thankful to SEC anyhow. WHY? Because of what they did to ETF, SEC showed only how powerful bitcoin is, imagine because of bitcoin decentralization sec has no match in it. ;D