Title: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: mak on March 11, 2017, 09:46:07 AM Lightning (http://lightning.network/) is difficult to implement. I believe it may be also not always
convenient to use. First of all, it only makes sense to open a Lightning channel with a shop if you plan to make purchases there regularly. A network of Lightning channels needs to be created too. It has its own problems: the time a transaction takes (by blockchain) is needed to guarantee the transaction. To open a payment channel, a funding transaction is also required. Actually, most automated shops with a lot of micro sales don’t need each and every payment to be guaranteed. For them, to have profit it is enough to get just a fraction of payments, as long as the expected value matches the item’s price. No need to say, the amount transferred (and the buyer’s exposure) is inversely proportional to the probability of the transfer to get through. I suggest using probabilistic transactions. They look like standard transactions but have a low probability of being recorded in the blockchain. In fact, the automated shop sells goods merely for a chance of the payment to be recorded. Because most of these transactions do not make it to the blockchain, they won’t take any space in the blocks. Fees for probabilistic transactions become probabilistic too. This is not to say that we should dump Lightning completely, let alone standard transactions. But everything must be fit for its purpose. Comparing with standard transactions, probabilistic ones only require two things added: each should contain a block number and a miner’s good signature. A good signature is a signature that satisfies a particular function. (Instead of a block number, it may be any identifier of the current or previous block.) To prevent double-spending (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-spending), the fee for a probabilistic transaction should be no lower than the expected value of funds transferred. Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: catchcoin on March 12, 2017, 02:15:25 AM yeah,this seems a good idea,and wish you have a big success.
Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: segovia on March 14, 2017, 09:47:37 AM Sounds reasonable, good job! 8)
By "automated shops" do you mean vending machines only, or you consider other options, like small online vendors, smart contract stores etc.? Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: cloverme on March 14, 2017, 03:27:41 PM You could also use a 21.co micropayment channel. The drawback is that you're using a centralized service, but until the fee/block issue is resolved for good, it's a reasonable workaround. https://21.co/learn/21-micropayments/#micropayment-channels
Your bigger problem is actually getting vending machines outfitted with a custom payment. A few years ago I worked on a project to add biometric payment to vending machines, let me say that vending machines are a pain in the ass. That being said, check out Matt's work here on bitcoin-enabling a vending machine: http://www.mattwhitlock.com/vendingpi/ Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: mak on March 15, 2017, 12:33:06 PM By "automated shops" do you mean vending machines only, or you consider other options, like small online vendors, smart contract stores etc.? What do you mean by “smart contract stores”? By automated shops I mean not so much vending machines as mechanical devices but rather network servers. These are command interpreters using probabilistic transactions as parameters. First of all it concerns personal file shops. As soon as many people start sharing their catalogs for sale, we’ll need search engines to save doing the same job many times. Also, a catalog opened for paid record (when a valid transaction is received) can serve as a paid mailbox. For cloud computing an open mining pool without user registration could be used etc. Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: mak on March 18, 2017, 07:08:11 AM Your bigger problem is actually getting vending machines outfitted with a custom payment. Instant micropayments are a relatively new use case for cryptocurrencies. The first steps into this territory must be the most difficult. It is crucial that all cryptocurrency users are enabled to make micropayments easily and without any extra manipulations. The infrastructure for probabilistic transactions is not there yet, but still they seem the most promising solution in terms of unification. Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: mak on March 30, 2017, 06:53:35 AM Quote from: mak To prevent double-spending (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-spending), the fee for a probabilistic transaction should be no lower than the expected value of funds transferred. For some cases, this one condition won't be enough. It doesn't take into account that there may be many probabilistic transactions. At an attempt to empty the wallet from which the shop expects to receive its payment, the shop should be able to raise the transaction fee. We still need the option to raise fees for cached transactions (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/49723/replace-by-fee-vs-child-pays-for-parent). Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: FA wings on March 30, 2017, 02:47:53 PM Seems to be very good, but I'm not very understand, you can simply say it to me?
Excuse me is a new person Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: ANHEQIAO on March 30, 2017, 03:08:54 PM Good idea, but you have to promise the Coins for vending those can safely proceed, otherwise it is unrealistic。
Title: Re: [IDEA] Coins for vending machines Post by: mak on March 31, 2017, 09:20:24 AM Quote from: ANHEQIAO you have to promise the Coins for vending those can safely proceed The recording of a probabilistic transaction into the blockchain is the passing of Coins.This event is a low probability. It is enough that this probability should be certain. The purse should be indicate the amount in the transaction, otherwise the transaction is not valid. Quote from: FA wings you can simply say it to me? I tried to write simply. I can explain something more. Tell me, what's not clear? The probabilistic transactions is electronic lottery tickets. ps english is not native |