Bitcoin Forum

So after what we saw yesterday, it is clear that the ETFs are a good opportunity to make some BTC.

In March 30th, Solid X will try to get their ETF passed. We saw that Winklevoss ETF got rejected because SEC "can't regulate bitcoin". I fail to see how the outcome of this one will be any different. So I predict another dump.

The problem is, will people care about this one as much as the Winklevoss one? The Winklevoss are celebrities, I have no idea who "Solid X". There needs to be hype in order to make some cash from speculation.

Well, good luck and don't lose any BTCs, because in 10 years we will be rich so don't forget to hodl what you win.

there will be absolutely zero market effect.

everyone's been paying attention to the winklevoss one. now we know nothing is gonna pass that chapter is closed. their application is already an sec pdf rejection that no one's gonna read.

All the ETFs should get rejected for the same reason. It would be strange for the SEC to approve one now.

Lets HYPE again! Maybe i make an another ETF aproval vs dissaproval pol ^^. On topic: we all know for 99% that SEC will deny it. So its better to forget about ETF Solid X

Well, the Solid X ETF introduces some changes, I think it is safer than the Winklevoss one so who knows.

Also, since the market already knows how bitcoin will react to an ETF disapproval, precisely because of that maybe there is no dump but

1) nothing happens
2) it actually pumps

No way to know.

I can't find the proper links for this one. Could you provide some?

Post the link to their application.

Which changes?

We must not hype it or we will see the same effect as yesterday. Yes good profit when you choose the right side on short term, but its realy damages bitcoin's trust and so we lose investors for the long run.

one thing it has shown is that interest is intense in this type of thing. we might be seeing less permissioned versions springing up like gbtc or the swedish etn.


they had a different insurance set up. but that does nothing to address the core reasons for the rejection.

Thankfully market didn't remain dumped after ETF got declined yesterday and it is already recovering from that panic dump. Personally i don't think the pump we were seeing from last few weeks are not solely due to ETF hype so after someday price may start again to surge like before.

Talking about any other bitcoin ETF that will apply to get approved by SEC, i think answer from them will be same a BIG NO. ;D

For SolidX, they will likely push back the decision, or decline it.  I'd expect them to delay it for the 2-3 times they can, up to like 180 days.

There is no reason now to push back the decision. It should be outright rejected on regulation claims, just like COIN. The regulatory environment is not going to change this year. Who knows how long if ever, an ETF will be approved in the US. Maybe after a few other counties with more liberal policies towards regulation allows Bitcoin ETFs. I wouldn't expect much of a drop when other ETFs are rejected.

They won't approve the ETF because bitcoins can't be regulated so people need to get over the idea of having an ETF that's based on bitcoin prices. Maybe if part of someone's company was invested in bitcoins there would be a chance of that happening but basing a fund solely off of the price of bitcoins can't happen.

Even if solid x ETF will be approved or not I doubt if it will really be significant to bitcoin's price since the last ETF that happened proved that it is not significant in price if ETF is rejected there might be a dump but it will not be that big. I won't hope that Solid X ETF will be approved though there is the high chance of it being rejected too but I want to see what will happen if it is approved.

3 days to go guys! Maybe we will see one more bulltrap that day like Winklevoss ETF.  I am still thinking that the huge drop was caused because winklevoss where dumping their stash when they heart the news. Anyone knows how much bitcoin the SolidX fund holds?

Guy, there wasn't a dump after the first ETF rejection...in fact the price of Bitcoin surged after the news!

The recent drop seems to be more timed with increased hard fork speculation. The government deciding not to intervene or participate in bitcoin has never been a bad thing for bitcoin.

There most certainly was. It was very rapid but also very extreme as well. It was all over with great rapidity though.

I don't think there's any point getting our hopes up over this ETF gaining approval. After the twins failed attempt I doubt this one will see a similar speculative price rise.

Trying to find some links for this ETF:

Original Filing with the SEC (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1668039/000119312516645774/d121870ds1.htm)

Filing detail (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1668039/000095012316015352/0000950123-16-015352-index.htm)

NYSE Arca Rulemaking (https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca.htm) (here the final approval/disapproval order should be published, see under "SR-NYSEArca-2016-101")

There seems to have been a recent amendment in early March:

Amendment No. 3 (http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFrameset.asp?FilingID=11823668&RcvdDate=2/3/2017&CoName=SOLIDX%20BITCOIN%20TRUST&FormType=S-1/A&View=html)

Supplemental data (https://www.sec.gov/comments/sr-nysearca-2016-101/nysearca2016101-1610031-135950.pdf)

Maybe related, but probably is another asset (Edit: that is the Grayscale ETF)

"Bitcoin Investment Trust" (https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2017/34-79955.pdf)

It is useless to think that after Winklevoss Coin ETF was rejected we will have another ETF accepted.
SEC stated that they are not approving COIN because there is risk inherently linked to bitcoin features.
Mainly fact that bitcoin can't be regulated and controlled - so ETF very little control over the asset itself.
To be accpted by SEC, ETF needs to come up with some solution to minimize risks of investors to suffer extreme losses first.

Bitcoin is and will always remain a free market where any entities with deep pockets can potentially move the market in their preferred direction. If you take their reason for disapproval for granted the last time, then they basically will never approve any sort of Bitcoin related ETF. However, the SolidX ETF has an insurance policy over their holdings till an amount of $125 million. It raises the chances slightly, but I don't think it will do much for the SEC.

We could still use a small pump, and i hope that this ETF will be a trigger for that :)

Legitimate demand is all we need. Haven't you noticed that the $1000 mark is somewhat of a stronghold mark?

It was just 2 days ago that the price dipped below $900 at the time the market was in full panic. See now, we're back where we belong. That's much better than pumps that don't last.

And no, this ETF isn't doing anything for the price as people simply don't have any confidence in this ETF when it comes to its approval. I think we have had enough hypes for now. Let's just build further on legitimate demand.

You are right. But i still think a little pump could help the price to break even further trough bearish resistance

interesting how little attention is being paid to the gbtc application.

they can point to several years of successfully operating a kinda similar thing.

their application has been updated to take into account the china/surveillance thing too.

https://seekingalpha.com/filing/3474545#D157414DS1A_HTM_TX157414_19

still a hopeless cause of course.

Nothing to do with the bitcoin ETF right now. Those are learning from the past experience.

The market is resistance with the ETF decision.
They're not wanna repeating the fake hype about the ETF.

ETF like a gambling.

Looks really promising. I really hope that some miracle happens and it will get an aproval. It looks a lot better than Winklevoss trust ETF.

The Solid X ETF won't be rejected - the decision will be postponed.

(They had to give the Winklevoss ETF a final decision, because they'd deferred the decision for the maximum amount of time already - 3 years).

They will likely wait and see for a few years to find out whether the regulated exchanges (Gemini and Coinbase) gain volume. If the regulated exchanges do end up with the most volume in a year's time, then one of the two remaining ETF's will get approved. As long as the bulk of the volume is in non-US exchanges like Bitfinex and the Chinese exchanges, then the answer will be No.

i don't think they'll say yes until everywhere other than super official on ramps has been exterminated. volume can come back to the unregulated places if it wants to.

You mean like 16M volume? because there are only 1M bitcoins in circulation worldwide and moving around different exchanges and no exchange will ever gain enough volume for SEC to approve any ETF. bitcoin doesn't need any ETFs but rather stability in performance.

IT WAS DENIED

Order Disapproving a Proposed Rule Change, as Modified by Amendment No. 1, Relating to the Listing and Trading of Shares of the SolidX Bitcoin Trust under NYSE Arca Equities Rule 8.201

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2017/34-80319.pdf

Possibly the least shocking development in the history of Bitcoin. Cannae believe they didn't withdraw it themselves but I suppose it was worth a punt if they'd gotten stoned that day.

I thik the need a denial to sue someone... :D

Since we never saw any hype behind the solid x ETF and no one expected anything different from the SEC this time around it wont be a big news that could influence the price of bitcoin.Hope it will recover in a couple of months and we will see another bull run if the yet another exploit is found in BU which i think is possible,because they got hammered two times already and third time is a charm. :D

Well.. they didnt even made a nice build up like Winklevoss ETF. Just : no. Such a pitty :'(

The only natural outcome. At this point we need to assume that every ETF - COIN, Solid X, Greyscale something else is all dead in the water.
It is not problem with company behind the ETF and rather, it is complaint by SEC that bitcoin is asset hard (probably impossible even) to regulate.
There won't be hype about next ETFs, investors are not stupid to fell for it again, there is not way to exploit this subject to pump BTC anymore.

I meant gain volume in percentage terms. As in the majority of all trading is happening on regulated exchanges.

If the majority of trading is on unregulated exchanges, they will continue to deny - and it looks like they have denied this one too.

There is only one more ETF left in the pipeline. If volume on the regulated exchanges doesn't increase, that one will get denied too.

All applications are 100% DOA even if it isn't declared yet. It'll take years before it changes sufficiently and even then they'll probably cite P2P stuff as the reason not to.

Anyone really shocked?

Another article from Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-dives-after-sec-rejects-plans-for-etf-2017-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-dives-after-sec-rejects-plans-for-etf-2017-3)

No market response, of course, because no one cares. I'm surprised the SEC was so blatant to say that the market needs to be regulated. It'll just never happen, right?

Nobody can bind bitcoin in boundaries and try to make it somebody's regulated pet. On short term a ETF aproval would be a good thing. But on the long term it could destroy bitcoin. Dont regulate what is meant to lack any regulation. Bitcoin is for the people, not wallstreet speculants.

Not really.

After the first hype there isn't much hype for the second one because the result is quite foreseeable. The first bitcoin ETF was talked about on this forum every single day on the speculation boards from at least 1 month before the actual ETF decision.

And this one? Well, you're probably one of the first ones to even bring the topic up.

It is obvious now that the SEC has no intention of approving any bitcoin ETFs. Companies should just give up.

Nobody cares about SEC's opinion on bitcoin anyways.

Don't forget if we still have Grayscale to be accepted by the US securities, What do you think about that? Do you believe if that will be accepted by the US securities or Was it including on the ignore list of US securities?
Denied, denied and denied again, looks like Bitcoin ETF is not mean something for the US securities. 

It will be denied again and again for the simply reason that bitcoin is unregulated. So SEC thinks that they cannot protect the investors. And we also know that bitcoin market as currently structured is resilient to manipulation as well. The double rejection ends a months-long rally that pushed bitcoin’s value higher than gold. I think the SolidX rejection also affected a few percent of the price of bitcoin but not that significant though. And future bitcoin ETF application will be rejected as well.