Bitcoin Forum

Possible or not if bitcoin users increase, china will no longer able to control bitcoin market. i see china market always try to dump the price even other exchange want to the price keep rising.

yes  ,  now the bitcoin's price depending on  global  policy

Glad to see peoples bank of china had made the correct decision to audit all of the Chinese exchange sites. They're not having the power to control market price again. Many thanks for the PBOC. At this time the trend is always turning to a bullishtrend. ;D

because until now PBOC still control china exchanger
withdraw yuan in china exchanger not yet normal, so china trader still wait and see, so bitcoin price defeat another exchanger 70-80 dollar/bitcoin

China isn't controlling the price of BTC!
the miners from china might do it!

Other exchanges can't keep the price rising!

Because the price is made by humans that want to buy and humans that want to sell.

It's a matter of demand and offer!

in my opinion some BTC miners stopped selling their BTC the price started to rise, everyone else stopped selling and the price rise even more!

true today China is no longer the holder of the largest users in the world there are many other countries that have a large user
as well as various other countries which have a large enough user

You might regret this "thanks" in the coming months, because the Chinese government have just started to regulate these exchanges. They say, it is to prevent "bubbles" but some people think they have another agenda. You have to look at the bigger picture. They are researching options for their own GovCoin and Bitcoin will be the competition.

They also want full control over their citizens money and Bitcoin circumvent some of these controls, so they will push back hard to regain the control. ^grrrrrrrr^

china is only holding the greater % of mining currently, for trading they are behind japan already, and many indian people are entering the market, if the value grow more, it mean that more people are trading bitcoin

actually china people are in high numbers, if there will be more interest there they can still control the big % of the market

but apparently not all chinese are buying bitcoin, it's the opposite very few of them(in comparison with how many they are) are buying many are in the mining scene

A decentralized crypto currencies like bitcoin and others altcoins should not be control by a single country like what people bank of china think they are doing. Though majority of the miners, traders and exchangers are from china currently but time will come when individual, group of people and country will not be able to control bitcoin and others altcoins through bad intervention like what people bank of china are doing to exchangers in other to create panic for traders to sell off their position.

You can't tell that for now as till date i still think 60-70% of investors are from china itself but of course the number is reducing daily and i see more chinese getting some actually sense in them. All bitcoin wants now is investments from people around the world as many are aware but for some reason not investing.

Its always them so far, the Chinese investors and miners. It can only decrease gradually but they still are as we speak.  If they can talk to one forum and control the market they easily can and will absorb all the USD if they can. It looks like they can control the world with it if now being solved by PBOC. The world is a better place without a a group of people that will control us, its one of the reason why we got into decentralized currencies.


Also saw that lately, bitflyer.jp has the top volume.

I don't think China do that some Chinese business man im sured do that.
Im believed that exchanges is the one who can in manipulating price.

We all know that the big drop in the Bitcoin value was related to some Chinese operations back in mid 2014. Same in bitcoin gambling market, China is an important player and will remain.

That's a real welcoming news as Central Bank of China has decided to audit the online exchanges. This will somehow discourage the people who are faking volume and trying to manipulate the bitcoin price.

However, that will not completely remove the cancer from the system. There are many workarounds of the same. I'm sure Chinese people will find some workaround for the same. However, some fat at least got burned and probably we will see a little less inflated price and manipulation.

There's also a downside to that. While China government interference with Bitcoin is somewhat good, It is also believed that they did it in a bid to be in control and possibly manipulate Bitcoin even further.

The stories about China's manipulation was fueled by Government regulating of Chinese exchanges

If bitcoin users will increase, why don't you think that some part of those users will be from china? Mostly which country mines bitcoin's big part, that is able to control it. So nowdays we see that china is mining bitcoin mostly, also their exchangers are well known and used, so that's why they have more opportunity to control bitcoin.

The majority of exchange volume happens in China, this probably ain't going to change anytime soon, so it is natural that they are the main price influencers.

Unlike with other coins or industries bitcoin miners probably don't have much influence over price, if they sell or hold all of their coins it will be nothing compared to global volume.

china has never been fully in control of the market. it was looking like that because of their insanely inflated trading volumes, but we all know how this ended. western exchanges have re-claimed their top position when it comes to the trading aspect. it's actually very embarrassing seeing that chinese exchanges went from a few million traded coins per day, to now far less than ten thousand per day. it's peanuts, really.

China is a big country and there are a lot of people living there. There's no conspiracy that all of them are taking part in. Everybody is on its own there like elsewhere in the world. I can't understand why people keep saying things about China like all the chinese can agree on something, for example on keeping the price of Bitcoin down.

Of course China is boasting of numbers (their population) and so if the rest of the minority's manage to understand Bitcoin's usage and use it on a daily basis we will sure be able to take its perceived centralization by China and any other world power who attempts to monopolize it.

Even now, I have a feeling that the influence any thing that comes from China whether positive or negative is having on bitcoin is gradually reducing because the news of investigating exchange sites and even suspension of withdrawal of bitcoin on some exchange sites is not really having any effect on price. But this will be finalised by the time we have alot of people coming that will not only surpress from China but equally from other parts of the world...

It is not the miners that are controlling the price of bitcoin before but the Chinese Exchangers. The Chinese exchangers are creating fake volumes and are manipulating the bitcoin market thus creating a sudden volatility in wide margin. Due to this, bubbles in the bitcoin market appeared but thanks to PBOC this cheating activities had stopped.

That's big good news to all bitcoin enthusiast here including myself of course. That's why China as I noticed it became so silent a couple of weeks past. well this is only for my observation and assessment. And from the very start China in real can't control the price value of bitcoin because of its decentralization.

China is no longer relevant

Not that it was relevant before but many people (me included) somehow believed that it had been the case. It was thought that Chinese exchanges with their huge volumes had been setting price reference points for other Bitcoin exchanges out there. The recent actions of the PBoC have quickly debunked these myths and eliminated such illusions or beliefs if there were any. I suspect that the Central bank of China itself didn't expect Bitcoin to be as resilient and robust as it turned out to be

I think it's not only controled by China markets rules, but other people who trade this cryptocurrency also involved to change the price of it. And we don't know the % value of countries who mostly or less make this value

Just wondering what makes china the mining capital of the world? Because they can make low class and cheap miners?

The answer to this is simple,they have invested a lot of money into bitcoin than the rest of the world and so is the reason they are the mining capital of the world and the main manufacturer is based in China and they are really competitive and so these are the main reason .

What you are telling is wrong, China becomes mining capital due to low Electricity rates which is the main reason to cut the cost expenses to mine it but now as china government are taking strict steps so it will become more problem for everyone including miners as now they have to show full details about mining profit and loss.

About first comment I think that is obvious that China have good conditions and some of the Chinese used that to make good profit with bitcoins. That is connected with second comment because of good conditions there is many early adopters from there, combined with current number of miners they have a strong position in bitcoin world. No one control bitcoin market, to be clear about it, but there is strong groups that can move the market in ways they desire. Chinese are not united, China is a big country and I`m sure there is many different groups there, with different agendas, depending from their plans and founds they preform actions on bitcoin market.

yes and they have very cheap electricity which is very good for mining, and ideal zone to build their huge farm you need proper cooling and infrastructure to build a farm you can't do that everywhere, they sell mienrs for $2k each for bitcoin, but i suspect they can produce them for $500 or lower, that is one hell of a revenue

I certainly wouldn't call their miners as low class or cheap

Apart from cheap electricity (as was just said above), they have first-hand access to the state of the art miners which can be by no means called low class (they can hardly be called cheap either). It is the exact opposite, and it is other countries (maybe, excluding the US, I don't really know) which have to buy mining equipment from the Chinese manufacturers. Quite naturally, the Chinese miners have an advantage in this respect, even if only through being closer to mining equipment producers than the rest of the world. Personally, I think it is more than just that, i.e. they are the first to use the top-notch miners and are just skimming the cream before anyone else gets access to these miners. It is more like the rest of the world which is using second grade miners

China's control of the bitcoin market if you believe there is one has been greatly reduce. It is said that, China is calling the shots in bitcoin. When they sneeze, the market catches a cold.” The bitcoin markets, traditionally dominated by trade in the bitcoin-US dollar currency pair, was quickly being taken over by volume from bitcoin-yuan trading. But since the PBOC steps in and said that China's bitcoin exchanges need strict supervision, China's control of bitcoin market or trading ceases to exist.

They can not control the bitcoin. Strongly to harm can, to supervise - is not present. The price is set by users increasing or decreasing the number of operations with crypto currency.

Much as I welcome the PBOCs crackdown that reduced the volume of the transactions, I still can't help but be wary. You can be sure that they'd come out with more regulations. The motivation is also not really just to protect consumers. They see bitcoin as a way to launder money and surely many people there are using bitcoin to evade taxes and move out their money from China. For all it's economic changes, it seems those who can afford it still think it's shitty and would want to leave. That news about the pregnancy clinics in the US comes to mind.



Cheap electricity plus the availability of inexpensive components.

Please be an exception and don't ignore my question

In short, you are not the first who claims here that the actions of the PBoC in respect to Bitcoin in general and more specifically the actions aimed at making the Chinese exchanges disallow cryptocurrency withdrawals for the time being are somehow linked with the capital outflows. Since you also mention that, could you explain to me what exactly you mean by Chinese folks moving money out of the country and how it is connected with Bitcoin? Which money (currency) do you refer to exactly? You see, many posters repeat the same thing but no one cares to explain. Or should I conclude that the posters in fact just don't know what they are talking about?

In fact china is not going to hold and control bitcoin any more, and to me the only reason is that the users of bitcoin are increasing not only in China but in all over the world.

the reason why a lot of people accusing china could manipulate the market are because of the 51% attack , as currently biggest bitcoin mining companies are come from china. just as simple as like that . Antpool , DiscusFish , BTC china pool and BW pool got half of the whole bitcoin mining around the world. no wonder people keep telling china are controlling the market .

They have changed it now.
Those doing the investigations and auditing are now saying they will no longer be monitoring the bitcoin exchanges so this type of control over bitcoin is still in effect. That is probably why the disapproval of the ETF didn't even make the bitcoin price flinch, well maybe for a split second in the bitcoin price world ;) ,
but didn't have a huge effect on it since it was an American creation that does not have as much potential then if it a Chinese invention of the bitcoin exchange market.

If Bitcoin splits into two, due to the blocksize issue, I think China will have a lot of influence over BU, but I think the other chain will keep its properties, and probably a larger number of users, at least that's what the number of nodes indicates.

I don't think if there would be a hardfork there would be plenty of people moving to the new one. Even if those hardforkers want to move to a new crypto, there are more people that wants to stay with bitcoins. So even if they try, they will not overcome the status quo of bitcoin. It will also not affect the bitcoin market, I think.

Still... China can control the bitcoin market because they are the real and legit whales of that market. They have the most early investors, miners and so on. So i think if they would like to play the market then they can do it by their self because most of the supply are there so we don't have a choice but to go with the flow for this kind of scenario. That is all my opinion.

I see, so what will happened if half of China's miners quit mining? Are we affected? Will it make lots of unconfirmed transactions?

just another random throwaway account spreading FUD about China!

Chine NEVER controlled bitcoin and will NEVER control bitcoin. that is just FUD people use to make the weak hands panic and dump their precious coins to their big pockets under-priced.

if you don't believe it, take a look at last week's (past 7 days) chart and see the dump that happened after the ETF rejection. and all the Chinese markets are closed.

Maybe, it was a Japanese invention after all. There is a lot of world outside America


I guess that would do a lot of good for Bitcoin in the long term

And it would do even more if all of them stopped mining altogether. There are quite a few full Bitcoin nodes running across different countries and if they could mine Bitcoin (since there would be no more Chinese mining farms sticking around and the mining difficulty would quickly decrease over time), that would decentralize mining and made the network more secure overall. Besides that, these old-school miners would be certainly interested in real Bitcoin evolution (not so much in profits, unlike today's miners), and therefore Bitcoin development would be greatly facilitated. So the answer is positive, yes, we would be affected

In today's world, if China wants Bitcoin to go down, the US wants it to go up or stay stable.

China is thinking of abandoning the dollar.  If China creates its GovCoin and pegs the yuan to it, the yuan will become a threat to the dollar.  The only monetary weapon the US has against the yuan will be Bitcoin.  So the US will want to maintain faith in Bitcoin.

So, just as it's always been, disunity among countries under the imperial system is good for assets like gold and Bitcoin, while unity is bad for them.  Over the long run, the biggest factor is never really finance or economics.  It's always politics.

Just claiming something is not enough

It would be nice if you explained how the so-called GovCoin is going to become a threat to the US dollar. I guess you shouldn't multiply entities beyond necessity (Ockham’s Razor). In this case, your GovCoin is such a useless entity essentially. What prevents them from using their national currency as "a threat to the dollar"? I guess this coin will be a threat to the Chinese yuan itself in the first place, not the American dollar. Or do you really think that if people in China don't believe in yuan, they will all of a sudden start believing in what would be just the same yuan in disguise?

This has been done for hundreds of years.  Countries have always strengthened a currency by pegging it against a stronger one.  Instead of a gold or dollar standard, China might have a ChinaCoin standard.  ChinaCoin may become credible, since it'd be supported by the Chinese government with its big economy.

That the IMF forbids member countries to peg against gold is a sign that the US and allies are afraid that would destroy faith in dollars and euro.  This would be the same as that scenario.

It would be considered the 'nuclear option' if China does that, of course, but the option is there.  In that scenario, the US will want a strong Bitcoin with which to fight back.

ChinaCoin would be a threat to the yuan only if China doesn't have enough coins to redeem its yuan.  Since it can set the initial peg rate freely, this is not a problem, at least at the beginning, as long as its sets a high rate of exchange for the coin (say, 1 coin equals 1 trillion yuan, in the extreme, if it has to.)  When the exchange rate is stable, the pegging becomes not a threat, but a stabilizing factor.  This has always been the case with the gold standard.

I am no economist and so base my view on what I see in the news. Like I said, even if your own country is developing, that would not remove the motivation to move to another one, especially if you think you'll have a better future there. The series of extreme smog in Beijing a few months ago showed that it's still behind the West in many aspects. If I were a resident, I would have definitely been worried. Why else would some people from there spend a lot of money to make they give birth in America?

Everytime I see China in the news, it's usually about outflow crackdown so I assumed that they really see it as a big problem. Bitcoin is perfect for moving money out, so again, very easy to assume it plays a big role in capital outflow. Of course that can also be done with other currencies but bitcoin is just more convenient. Now that you've mention it, I started reading more... looks like they're doing something right...  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-20/china-s-yuan-outflows-plummet-showing-capital-controls-pay-off

What is happening between China and the US is classic 'war by currency.'  (I don't use 'currency war' since it has a specific and different meaning.)

Since the Chinese system is still built mainly on dollar reserves, and China's credit expansion/bubble is putting stress on the adequacy of the reserves, as well as China's ability to defend its soft peg against the dollar, the US can make China suffer just by raising interest rates and making dollars more scarce in the markets.

China must now do a combination of austerity, capital controls, and spending reserves to defend its peg and confidence in the yuan.  None of them is painless.

The master of the imperial system cracks the whip and the slave must suffer or try to evade.  The dollar has taken the place of gold for many countries, and the power of the US comes from being able to print gold, in effect.  This is not a just system.

China is not controling btc market China is biggest btc market,but with new regultion we will see more real trading volume from chinise exchanges.Dont blame China  ,China is biggest btc hube

I agree, china is the majority owner of the bitcoin nowadays, I am sure china always control prices, surely they got special consideration and still assume that bitcoin is profitable so that they will continue to be able to control.

When was the last the last time happened that China controlled the price of bitcoin in the market? It seems that I'm a late bloomer ;D
I didn't know and I never know that if you owned the biggest percentage profit of bitcoin in the entire world it means you already have the power to control the price of bitcoin.  ???

Having a huge volume of bitcoin at your disposal, let us say you have 5 million bitcoin in storage, will mean a big thing to the price of bitcoin in the market. If you hold your bitcoin and with the increasing demand and need for bitcoin on a daily basis then it is but undeniable that the price of bitcoin will rise. But on the other hand if you dump even just 1 million bitcoins in all of the exchanges and sell it on the lower price then there will be a price meltdown.

I will be so glad if its not only China but other countries in the world because if the use of bitcoin is adequately spread, it will mean that not just one person or group of people will be able to control the direction of price and when this happen stability will follow which will then mean that corporations will then come in to accept bitcoin without the fear that the 0.05btc that worths say $50 will not worth $30 tomorrow.

Well, the problem is that China is still the number one miner of bitcoins and I think they still get most of the bitcoins that get mined. Hence, even if we distribute what is currently within their control, they will just be able to mine more and get a hold of a lot of it. But I don't really think they have that much influence in the prices though.

I rather see China losing control from the minig industry, a few miners got way to much power and they also wanna control the protocol.

China had never been in control of bitcoin market.  It was just an illusion that they do control it.  Though probably the market is controlled by people who have an enormouse amount of Bitcoin and had been made a huge profit during the 2013 bubble.  And the news about PBOC are just a misunderstanding.  PBOC just want to have an exchange that follow the government rule.

yes i agree with you, i think no one can control bitcoin, bitcoin is not under control of any one because bitcoin is decentralize currency and therefore no one can control bitcoin, people are now accepting bitcoin in a wide scale which is making bitcoin more and more powerful and reliable.

Whatever China pegs their currency to, it won't be stronger than that

If they peg the Yuan to the US dollar, it simply can't be a threat to the latter. If they peg it to gold, then more power to them. Most major currencies (like the already mentioned American dollar, Euro or Swiss franc) are by far more stable than gold (gold in comparison with them is as volatile as hell). Other than that, you can't solve a problem by relying on people who created it. Should the Chinese authorities create their own GovCoin (that's what you started with), they will abuse it in absolutely the same way they abuse the Yuan right now

So they are moving Bitcoin out of China, right?

But isn't that what most government strive for, i.e. to get rid of this Bitcoin? Really, why would they want to prevent bitcoins from leaving China if it would in fact remove a competitor from their national currency, i.e. the Yuan? I see no logic in fighting with that. On the other hand, how can you actually move bitcoins from one country to another? They would still remain in your wallet, and the whole question makes no sense. I'd rather say that the matter is actually about dollars flowing out of China from the accounts in the Chinese banks to accounts in the banks beyond the jurisdiction of Beijing, and that's not what the authorities might want since they understand that their own currency is not worth a shit. But Bitcoin has nothing to do with that

until now china exchanger can't withdraw
so china trader still wait and see, can't doing anything, and not deposit again, so in china exchanger bitcoin price always low is compare another exchanger

Actually, I am not so worrying about PBoC and Chinese traders but you are right about miners which located in there would be something if Government trying to push them harder to get some portion of money through taxes.
Current market on China exchanges still on silent phase and we can say they are no longer control bitcoin price but as soon as PBoC allow withdrawals, then... Let's see what will happen, but they will buy I guess and make bitcoin price climb up a bit before sell it again.

I don't think it will change anything

Or do you mean to say that if the Chinese government levies heavy taxes on the miners in China, the latter will do everything to raise fees and thus move the tax burden on ordinary Bitcoin users? I'm afraid they are already laying themselves out to get as much fees as they only can and trying to raise fees further (whatever means they might choose for that) would actually be counterproductive and likely lead to a decline in fees since people will just move to offchain transactions (which they are already doing, anyway)

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean by this.


True.  That is what they have been doing and they are now looking for an exit (or at least potential exit.)

Pegging it to gold would be a declaration of war to the global elites.  It might happen is China is pushed to far, but still not likely, from what I can see.  A properly done pegging would mean the yuan becomes the most stable money, and would send a lot of global capital and demand to China (since initially the yuan would be very cheap, if they do it right.)  Not good for the Western empire's (already shaky) stability!

In any case, it always makes sense for China (or any power not totally in bed with the global elites) to acquire more gold and Bitcoin.

The elites want us to believe gold is volatile and there is plenty of evidence of their manipulation of the gold and silver 'markets.'  Still, over the 4 decades since gold was 'demonetized,' the dollar has lost 97% of its value against gold.  I agree, gold is not for the short-term nervous, but it's a good long-term investment, in proper proportion to your other assets.


Which problem are you talking about?

That all state powers will abuse their issuance of any kind of money is a given.  However, pegging the yuan to a ChinaCoin means that the limited-issuance structure of cryptocurrencies and the yuan becoming an IOU payable in a cryptocurrency will make the yuan structurally the soundest state currency in the world.  That would not be too different from pegging to gold (as I described above.)

And, as I mentioned, the only way the Western elites can fight that eventuality is to support Bitcoin.  So if China doesn't support Bitcoin, the West will (that is, unless and until China becomes a fully embraced ally of the West, which is probably not going to happen.)

In the final analysis, there really is something written in the stars that, in times of global disunity, non-state assets will gold and Bitcoin will do well, one way or another.

This happens because many users from other countries who started adopted bitcoin so that the number of users bitcoin from china are not so giving effect to much for the price of bitcoin. I think this is great news

It is true that they cannot withdraw their coins but they can still trade and sell off their coins if they want to and do what ever they want to other than withdrawals,i have never traded in an Chinese exchange because i am not confortable with it mainly because of the language and i need to use a translater so i am not sure what the situation is at the moment.

China doesnt have control on bitcoins price is just a hypothesis. After the Chinese Exchanges have failed to do some withdrawals and deposits of bitcoin due to their non-compliance to the AML and KMY regulations the Chinese bitcoin holders has shifted to localbitcoin.com. Chinese has still have a power to manipulate the bitcoins price but we cannot determine its them since they are no longer the Chinese Exchangers.

In bitcoin, it is only the the people control the price and volume and if majority of people in china uses bitcoins, it means they can collectively make strategies and control the greater share of the bitcoins.

Yeah you right, Thanks for the PBOC for what they did was a big factor for the bictoin enthusiast. Whenever China can't happen that they control bitcoin price even before. But I believe China always doing to dump the price value of bitcoin.

I think that from the beginning it was impossible for Bitcoin to control Bitcoin, if it was controlled, this would be against nature of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is completely freedom, does not depend on anyone so it is not controlled by anyone. China only has certain influences on Bitcoin as it affects Bitcoin pricing. China is so influenced by the large number of Bitcoin users, miners, and traders most concentrated there. The demand for Bitcoin in China is also quite high, so many transactions are made daily.

Stronger than what they peg their currency to. It is really strange that you can't follow your own idea (or just don't want to)


Read again what I wrote

And then think whether China actually needs that. They have been deliberately devaluing the Chinese Yuan for the purpose of making their exports more competitive at international markets. Pegging the Chinese currency would be a suicide which the Chinese authorities will never go to. If only in your mind heavily obsessed with the ideas of hard currencies. Or should I say delusions?


Me? It is you who first started talking about the Chinese government wanting to issue some obscure GovCoin to solve some of their no less obscure problems. You are as dishonest as before

China was already not in position to control bitcoin, as bitcoin is a universal currency and therefore it is not such an easy job for a single country to manipulate the price of bitcoin.

Sure if Bitcoin gets decentralized enough then the Chinese and other monopolywhores wouldn't be able to control much stake in the network and volume of bitcoins in their possession in order to determine prices for us all. We need get involved and get the message everywhere.

yes that is right to say that china do not have an control over bitcoin, as bitcoin is becoming more and more stable therefore it is now becoming more and more popular and that i the reason that china is losing control over bitcoin.

It reflects on the block voting. But to control the price and volume of bitcoin will not possible for the Chinese. The strict rule by the PBOC was making a limit access for the Chinese community to make another manipulation for the bitcoin right now.

I think, The possible thing for the Chinese community are trying to attack through the scalability rule.

I think you misunderstand me.  Certainly, the yuan won't be stronger than that which it is pegged to.  But it will be fundamentally stronger than all national currencies in the world which are still fiat.  That is all it will need to destroy the dollar.

Why do you think the IMF forbids member states from pegging to gold?


Remember, I wrote, the pegging has to be at a proper price.  At the proper price, the pegging *cheapens* the currency, but at the same time creates confidence in its stability, from then on, at that price.  This was what France did in the 1920s.  Since that was good for France for a decade but  helped destroy the global system, no wonder nothing of the sort has happened with a major economy since.  But, again, the option is there for any country that wants to give the middle finger to the imperial system.  (At least, the option is available to China for blackmailing US policy into helping it out of its current troubles.)

Not many people truly understand pegging, even though it's been done for centuries.

And in all this discussion we have not even got into the relative merits of what you call 'hard currency' or what not (and I assure you the issues are a lot more complex than on the surface.)  I've only been talking about objectively what will happen under what condition.


The Chinese government has a problem today, and that is a more unstable asset bubble than any other major economy.  That is in part due to its own doing, but also in part due to the way the imperial system victimizes countries like China.  (Regardless, the game will be based on power rather than moral rights.)  What we do know is that this brings unpalatable choices, going forward, for both China and the global system, and that the US and China are both trying to push as much pain to the other as possible.

This is a recipe for conflict, and we know that this kind of conflict is good for non-state monies like gold and Bitcoin.

I've heard it many times that the IMF forbids its members from pegging their currencies to gold

I don't really know if they really claim what they are ascribed to claim but even if so it is not what is going to stop China from pegging its currency to gold. Gold is a highly volatile asset on its own, and its volatility doesn't depend on how well (oh how bad, for that matter) a specific economy fares (which has chosen to peg its currency to gold). Thus, if some country pegged their fiat to gold, that would most certainly create total chaos in the economy once the gold value (price) starts to thrash about as a headless chicken. I think that's the primary reason why the IMF has set this rule. Apart from that, why would China ever want to destroy the dollar if that would inexorably destroy the market for their exports? I don't know about you, but personally, I don't see any real sense behind this idea. Especially when in reality they are hell-bent on devaluing their own currency against the same dollar (obviously, trying to keep balance between devaluation and runaway inflation which such devaluation is prone to cause)

but i think bitcoin is not a centralize currency as bitcoin is an international currency and therefore China as well as any other country cannot manipulate the price and market of bitcoin.

depending with the amount that they are holding mate, as we knew that most of the miners are there, so they can really make some moves
but like what you have said its been international so the holdings are still split and we just needed for big investors to come up and join
the ride.

Bitcoin is spread through the world and a single country cant be responsible to have a say in manipulation of it. Little bit pumps or dumps can be planned if a country has a large share of the coins but nobody can fully control it for sure.

First of, China is not a one person. And no other country is, except North Korea maybe. I mean nowhere there are meetings on the government level with an agenda like "How to control Bitcoin?"

But if all the people living in China decided to consolidate in order to manipulate the Bitcoin's price would they succeed? That's another question.

I don't think that it is reality , The control of the bitcoin by china is only due to the mining profit and nothing , So here until the electricity remain cheap the china will control the bitcoin price more .
But here I is mendetory for us to notice that only few times the price got fluctuate due to china big trading exchange , So we can't say directly that the control comes-in/comes-out for china to control bitcoin price rise/down .
Currently the problem of fall in the bitcoin price is only due to coinbase that is not directly reason for the china exchange .

I wonder why everyone wants to control bitcoin? Nobody thinks about that as soon as bitcoin will get under someone's control it will lose its appeal and cease to exist.

China could only have major effect when their exchanges were trading btc with no fees. Now that the government has frowned at it, fees have being introduced and now trading volume has gone lower.

Decentralized currency is the best idea but unfortunately the main one which is bitcoin is being manipulated by those same people who control fiat i hope this doesn't last long otherwise reaching a point of 2000$ can be really hard plus after the currenct incident i think the suitability is also gone.

Gold is volatile only because no big national currency has been pegged to it for the last 4 decades, and because the powers that be have been manipulating its 'market' price.  If and when a major national currency is pegged to it, it will have nowhere to go but up from this level.

The IMF exists to enforce the imperial system --it has been amply documented that it doesn't operate with the best interest of developing countries in mind, to put it mildly.  And the imperial system would be profoundly threatened by any major pegging to gold.


Certainly, the elites in China and every other major country want to maintain the status quo for as long as possible, since it benefits them too.  But they also understand the fundamentally unstable nature of a dollar-based system, that benefits the imperial center at their expense.  They thus have a dilemma, and who knows, at some point they might want to bite the bullet and free themselves from the dollar.

When China stabilizes its system through devaluation and/or pegging, it will have a lot of freedom to apply stimulus to dull whatever pain might come from the change.  In fact, capital and demand from around the world will be attracted to a China with a currency that is both stable and initially cheap, further limiting the downside, and improving the upside.

The mainstream press never mentions that devaluation plus inflation (with or without pegging to something other than the dollar) is the perfect solution for the vast majority of countries' financial instability problem, the vast majority of the time.  For example, Greece should get out of the euro, devalue, and wipe out most of its debt, for its own good.  But if countries were 'allowed' to do this, it would be a big threat to the dollar-based imperial system, in multiple ways.


Of course China wants to devalue massively, and then regain stability at the new exchange rate.  See above.  The only reason it has not done so is that it's not allowed to, while it still wants to play along with the imperial system, more or less.

But pegging to a non-dollar asset is not incompatible with devaluation, at least initially.  If an ounce of gold is worth 8500 yuan today, China could peg to gold at, for example, 85,000 yuan per ounce, and assuming thisprice level has been properly arrived at, the yuan would immediately be much cheaper in dollar terms, but also regain stability at that level, and will have nowhere to move but up.  As for the US, it would be up sh*t's creek.

As I always say, it's a mistake to think we have this monetary and financial system mainly because of economics and finance.  Those are big factors, but politics is the real long-term driver.

You obviously fail to see the forest for the trees

More specifically, you at first started by claiming that a currency will derive its value from the fact of its being pegged to gold, and then, unexpectedly, you reverse your reasoning 180 degrees and basically begin asserting that it is in fact gold that gets its value from major currencies being pegged to it. Why not then just peg the Chinese yuan to the US dollar directly and get done with that? Since this is what your current train of thought essentially comes down to. If you disagree, you should either stick to your original point that gold doesn't need external validation but then you have to deal with the genuine volatility of it, or accept that it itself is dependent on major currencies being pegged to it (or gold being pegged to them), but then the latter completely invalidates your whole argument, sorry for that

Sorry, no.  I said (paraphrasing here) that under current conditions, a currency can gain stability from being pegged to gold.  This is simple centuries-old logic: if the central bank has to redeem its paper/electronic money with gold at a fixed rate on demand from all comers, it must be more careful with issuance, or there'd be a run on its gold.

I said gold is volatile in national currency terms because no major currency has been pegged to it for 40 years.  Pegging obvious decreases exchange rate volatility (by design!)  That is all.  Do not take my words farther than they are -- there are subtle but important differences for every change of shade of wording in this business...

FWIW, it's obvious that the lack of pegging since 1971, over the long term, increased rather than decreased the value of gold in currency terms.  Given this history, why would anyone say gold gets its value from currencies being pegged to it?  Except under specific conditions, from specific initial conditions, with specific human intent.  Again, subtlety, my friend...  If you deal in broad strokes, you're in the wrong business here.


Apart from the above, the dollar is issued by corruptible humans.  (And I was being nice to go only as far as 'corruptible'!)


Again, I never made this kind of statement one way or the other in this discussion.  You should read my 'Honest Introduction to Money' for a full explanation of my view on the nature of the value of money.  (Spoiler alert: you'd be surprised if you thought I held any religious belief as to the 'intrinsic' value of any type of money.)


As I mentioned, the volatility is far from genuine but from elite manipulation of gold and silver 'markets.'


May I serve just a small taste of the sheer degree of subtlety that one must deal with, in order to discuss money in a credible fashion:

Throughout most the 19th century both the global elites and mainstream economists propagated the idea that gold was real money, and paper money was debt, and that major governments were morally committed to fully redeem their paper with gold at the fixed rate, since failure to do so amounted to reneging on debt, and thus to theft.

Well, this propaganda was wrong on all fronts.  The elites were 'misleading' the public even about the intent of the gold standard.  I'll leave the explanation for you to work out, if you both want to, and have the required background for the work.

Here after,china willnot be able to control or dump bitcoins.Even if they try to dump,they would end up losing their bitcoins to investors of other parts of the world.People all over the world have relized bitcoin's potential and they are ready to buy bitcoins.China dragon has lost its power.

It is true that China is a country and not a single individual but even though it is also true that the bitcoin holders doesnt hold a meeting that they will dump their bitcoin still China has a say on bitcoins market. This possibility rests on the fact that China  has many giant bitcoin mining farms compared to the rest of the world. The biggest mining center is also in China and even if only one mining farm decided to dump their bitcoins that market will experience big waves of volatility. That is why we must never underestimate China since they have a say to the bitcoin community.

It's just a case of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" with the government.

It depends on how you look at "China" though.  Chinese companies will always have a big influence on Bitcoin, particularly monopolies like Bitmain who won't be going away any time soon.  Actually, Bitcoin will probably just get more centralised as time goes on.

The assurances we had in the past about China not being able to control the market might as well be an oversight because I think the little downward thread we are experiencing at the moment could have been as a result of the ban announcement on cryptos in China. So we see anything is just possible to happen. Though not control but a little of influence. My thought.

These old miners would certainly be interested in the true development of Bitcoin (not so much in profit, unlike today's miners), and thus the development of Bitcoin would be facilitated. So the answer is positive, yes, we will be affected
China does not have enough money to change the yuan. China now has to do a combination of rigidity, capital controls and reserve spending to protect its cohesion and confidence in the yuan. None of them are painless.
Thank you

It is funny this discussion ensued in March and by September, China tried to stamp the discussion. It must have really been an oversight, however, China is just another country and even though they have the highest mining rigs and it seems they once had the highest trade market, this does not mean they can keep manipulating the system for long.

The truth is that it is hard to predict any possible outcome in any situation, but it seems over time, people will get a grip of themselves and bother less about china's FUDs.

After China banned ICO and many investors dump their bitcoins, still bitcoin survives. This will clearly proves us that no country can control bitcoin because it is unstoppable and decentralized. Despite all the negative issues released, bitcoin now is recovering and the price now is gradually increasing. Next year I wouldn't be surprise if it hits $10000.!:)

Chinese Ban is not that much matter of discussion now because bitcoin is not depending on any country those who banned it are on a huge mistake and in coming future they will regret about what they did, and banning bitcoin means to lag in the progress of economy and digital technology and now they have no hold in future and that’s a good sign.

you can't say boldly about the issue, because you haven't any concrete information about this point. China is one of the largest and growing economy in the current world, especially in the crypt currency platform, China has huge investment so that they should not be ignored.

China has built its economy on the investment of developed countries. The Chinese economy is built on the dollar. They have a huge stock of dollars in the Treasury. It is possible that this ban is an attempt to save their dollar assets from depreciation. I think that the process of capital outflow from the dollar China will not stop and he will be forced to terminate the prohibitions on the involvement of bitcoin in the country.

And yet this market gets negatively affected at the time the price is about to reach new a new high, and just before that something happens in China. China just need to fart, and people start selling like there is no tomorrow -> it has been like this for several years now, and not much will change in this regard. People need to disconnect themselves from the believe that China is a big deal and the engine of this market, because that's not the case. It's frustrating to see that despite all the bullish events we have gone through lately, a non contributing factor such as China manages to spoil and ruin everything in a matter of days. Let them ban everything they want, why should we care?

 That's the beauty of it - governments not being able to control BTC and make it rigged like everything else they do, and it's one of the basic principles of creating BTC, isn't it?

China lost the opportunity to be the forefront of being reckoned with for bitcoin but they lost it with pronouncing a ban of cups. This is a debacle to them even though I believe they would look for means to come back but is going to be an uphill task for them.

it's a true fact regarding this issue, day by day the lion share of Bitcoin is shifting to china to other country like Japan and South Korea, so China is losing the major role on this platform. i have a belief that Japan is taking the place of Bitcoin. in recent time, China government has taken an initiative to regulate on the ICO system so that a lot of Chinese investors getting discouraged to invest in this system. so China is losing it's individual dominance on the Bitcoin market.

Yes probably there is still people out there in china that is mining or earning bitcoins. Governments of china banned bitcoin because of illegal transactions and since the incident is done then i think that everything will go back to normal and china will still contribute to the circulation of china.

I think there is no bad intentions here regarding with Chinese people or China itself in controlling such market things in cryptocurrencies, it just that happen that many Chinese people tend to invest earlier with crypto and at the same time they represent a big amount of miners in the whole world and with that we can't do anything because it is their choice more than other races and countries. If they wishes to control it then they must be unite as there is a massive amount of money and crypto that is required in really controlling the market.

There is no concrete evidence that a single country are controlling the prices of the market, it is all speculations and conspiracy only. Anyone can really tell what is their opinion in everything but I only believe to those that can show a solid evidence that someone or a group of people is controlling the price.

I believe we crypto users have written china off from being a pioneer in this business and they no longer have the control of the bitcoin market like they did because every time they are in the news we get a wave of panic which is extremely bad for this industry but now we have a new safe haven(Japan) which  seems to write off all negativity coming from its counterparts.

Right. The chinese ban had i think, a shock effect but right after things calmed down, we're back on track. This goes to show that btc won't be relying on amy specific country trying to regulate it.

No one can control the price of bitcoin, bitcoin’s investors are all over the world and Chinese are not the main source to bitcoin and in past they gave a dump to the bitcoin and they banned bitcoin in their region and there will be no chance for them to be in the administrators again and bitcoin is surviving without them and now there is no need of Chinese.

Since China let go handling Bitcoin I think we can be more profitable in the sense that opportunities will not be always for them, we can also be part of development of this system although China is one of the biggest contributor not only for the world's economy but also here in bitcoin , this system had already survive from depreciation of 10% last few weeks ago which threatened most of the people , and since they are gone, they are no longer accessible for controlling marketplace.

It's all about buying powers, whales could be anywhere and few of these will able to somehow influencing the market again when the time was right. China had too much attention those days and that's why people would feel that China was sort like controlling BTC.  FUD and globalized decision would be now the biggest threat for BTCas small countries would have no reason or the power to influence them. I personally blame medias that over-dramatize BTC as dot-com bubbles even though some of them had no expert knowledge with the potential of blockchain.

Yeah ,global policy control has always been the design of bitcoin (and the users will be better for it) though we are yet to be experiencing that because of the tussle and acceptance issues.

When it starts being controlled by global outcomes, we would then see a more stable bitcoin volatility and then the movement and direction can then be assumed or predicted like we have in fiat .

this is a completely speculative market, and all the capacities and pump pools are in China, I do not think that the coordinates have changed!

I thought after China is out of play - the price of bitcoin would fall considerably and that would be a long-term trend until the market revitalizes and shifts powers. But it never happened. I guess it is a sign that bitcoin is becoming stronger.

Of course. Bitcoin can stand or survive whether China will support it or not because it is not depending on China now. It has its own strength now unlike before that it will go down if China will not support it. Many bitcoin investors nowadays that it can rely on and not that country, China.

China and does not seek to control it, since they have already started to create their own state crypto currency, and in itself bitcoin has outlived itself, I would not recommend it until it's too late to look at new more promising coins!

China actually can't control anything. If you don't say China can control bitcoin, China doesn't even have a decent payment app!

China's bitcoin users need a VPN to access the real Internet!

Actually, the most business minded people are chinese people, they are people good in different business strategy, so we cannot directly believe on the issue about china has no longer control in cryptocurrency business, maybe chinese people only used their strategic way to become silently rest of some fear and curiosity of other people who accessed bitcoin. But we don't know the plan of chinese people, maybe these coming days, they back again on bitcoin business, and secretly dominating or dominates all different transactions on bitcoin business.

it's a verified actuality with respect to this issue, step by step the lion offer of Bitcoin is moving to china to other nation like Japan and South Korea, so China is losing the real part on this stage. I have a conviction that Japan is replacing Bitcoin. in late time, China government has taken an activity to control on the ICO framework with the goal that a great deal of Chinese financial specialists getting debilitated to put resources into this framework. so China is losing it's individual predominance on the Bitcoin advertise.

China and does not try to control it, since they have just begun to make their own particular state cryptographic money, and in itself bitcoin has outlasted itself, I would not prescribe it until it's past the point where it is possible to take a gander at new all the more encouraging coins.

I trust we crypto clients have composed china off from being a pioneer in this business and they never again have the control of the bitcoin advertise as they did in light of the fact that each time they are in the news we get a rush of frenzy which is to a great degree awful for this industry yet now we have another safe haven(Japan) which appears to discount all pessimism originating from its partners.