Bitcoin Forum

Cheers!

How come BTC price drops? ETH price dropped before hardfork. Panic, FUD....

And what happened? ETH went from sub $10 to over $50, after the hardfork, and people got free ETC on top of that. Currently at $2 or a little less.

So pricewise, the hardfork was the best thing that ever happened to ETH. In fact if BTC splits into BTC and BTU, then that BTC may be worth $5000 and BTU maybe $200, a year from now.

Mind you, a hardfork means you get the same number of coins in both forks, so no matter which sides wins you are fine.  ;D

>Implying that the hardfork for ETH is the reason that its value took off.

Maybe for the blocksize it could end up being beneficial, but splitting it like what happened with ETH is a bad move and unironically believing that Ethereum's value shot up because it went through a fork in the past is a poor understanding of dynamics for cryptos at best.

I'm seriously debating how much externals are understood by people on this forum.

Yeah, maybe, in the long run, that may benefit us. But, we still don't know what will happen. We can't compare ETH to BTC and hope that the same thing happened to ETH will also happen to BTC. My concern right now is that these issues create FUD to the people and make them sell their BTC in a much lower price. It creates chaos that we shouldn't have in the first place. Let's just hope that this will be solved the sooner. Transactions are being filed up everyday. Problems are already arising from this.

ETH:
Mining centralization: Check.
Developer centralization: Check.
Capitalist centralization: Check.
Scalability issues: Check.

---

You can't directly compare a HF on a centralized scam coin to a HF on a decentralized and immutable coin.

Jesus Christ lad. I'm not opposing hard forks but your logic is way off.

How do you know what the ETH price would be if they had never forked? How do you know it wouldn't be >$100 by now?
If it generates free money, why don't they, or any other altcoin, fork every month making everyone a millionaire? No such thing as free lunch.

You're also forgetting that ETH was on early stage of development with zero adoption outside of exchanges, which made the hf easier to manage.

You mean I have to install two bitcoin-qt, each use boat load of disk and ram. Don't tell me light weight client. I am old style and I old trust qt.

The hard fork nearly killed ETH. It stayed at half the value it had last Spring for more than 6 months. It only recovered this month. Also, there was more support for the hard fork at ETH than there is now for BU. We sure can hope for the best, but a hard fork is a risky move.

I agree, ETH almost die when the hard fork happened, the price drop down so low and lose a lot of investor, ETH just lucky because previously before forking there are so many supporters and investors that is the reason ETH could survive, if there are no previous investor ETH will end up in a dead coin list, so forking is only for the last resort and it contain a huge risk

The best should keep only one BTC network, and not make a split. This week is like a war on Twitter and many articles discuss the scaling debate. I think the first step should implement Segwit, and then let see what happen.

precisely, it is true that is what happens whoever will win us the benefit, but for those who panic with their hardfork then that's what the losses, because later we will get coins BTU, such as the number of stocks BTC us in the wallet when it but if now is already sold-out, what we receive from this hardfork agenda, bite the finger that is what we experience when it comes to participating panic selling

ethereum is wired to handle a hard fork in a much more efficient way than bitcoin.

when you include how much more homogeneous their community is compared to bitcoin, even if it did splinter, it becomes an almost pointless comparison.

I see.

All the above is true for BTC as well. Talking about immutability, ETC is immutable and is now worth 5% of ETH.

We bitcoiners should not critizise the scalability issue of other coins, not really...try an ETH and a BTC transfer and see which one is faster  :D

I never said ETH value shot up BECAUSE of the hardfork. I am saying, the hardfork had no negative impact, not in the long run. I believe that after the hardfork, there could be quite a relief rally (not sure which chain .... people can then put their money where their mouth is hehehehe)  ;D ;D

What do you think about this? https://twitter.com/bitfinex/status/843226656940679170
Bitfinex has got his answer. This is happening.

Eth capitalization was $100 000, 70% of coins in one hands, and it's price is easy manipulated. We can't compare vitaliumcoin with Bitcoin.
This is what Ver and Jihan wants, to control Bitcoin as Buterin controls vitaliumcoin. But appears they end up with altcoin BTU  :)

Everyone pushing for a hard fork in bitcoin is risking all of our money.  Segwit gives them (BU) the increased block size that they want while protecting the network sovereignty. 

no no no - not a good thing - vitalik needs to stop talking

It's obvious they don't want blocksize increase, they want to control bitcoin

Thats the truth.  This debate over blocksize is turning into nothing more than a hostile takeover attempt.

Yes - and you stop a hostile take over with a poison pill.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1833046.0

Hard fork doesn't necessarily mean that it will cause some spikes in value thereafter, and to imply that ETH is the same as BTc is a big no-no. Perhaps we can say that the ETH guys are just dedicated investors or whatnot that's why the price went soaring after their hard fork gloom, but in bitcoin's case, it's more than just a hard fork.

Wrong; they are quite different in BTC. Some exist, others don't (e.g. 'developer centralization'). There is no "distance-to-vitalik" parameter in Bitcoin for bailing out entities. ::)

ETH was built by people who love banks for people who love banks. They don't give a damn about decentralization. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Nobody in the real world uses ETH anyways; it's a corporate & speculative platform. They can't be compared.

you are missing a very big point.
that point being the main purpose or usage of ethereum. and that is nothing other than being traded and give you profit. literary nothing else.

answer me these:
do you use ETH as a currency? do you even know anyone who does?
do you use it for smart contracts and do you even know any proper one out there that is being used?
is there even any real business out there that uses or considers using ETH for any real purpose?

funny isn't it? bitcoin is being traded and for many it is only for profit and making more money but on top of that it is actually being used as a currency. there are businesses small (like a food truck) or huge like Valve corp. as a means for payment. or thousands of transactions daily that are for buying or paying for something online every day.
none of these would like a split because they are not using it as an investment to stupidly want their holdings double.

and also you are foolishly forgetting another big factor. and that is the way ethereum whales controlled the price. go look for their topics, when ETH price was getting dumped real hard there were huge buy walls placed on poloniex and smaller ones in other exchanges that you can not even fathom the number of USD in the buy orders they threw at ethereum to keep the price up and prevent the crash.
go watch the orderbook next time Ethereum is being dumped lower than whales care for it to be dumped and you realize how much money they hold.

No, that is not a good thing ! This is making a permanent split into the Bitcoin community, and if there is no clear victor that we can call Bitcoin and a clear loser we can call altcoin, this will be the end of Bitcoin as we know it today. That would be a permanent breach that we do not know the consequences it could have.

in my opinion bitcoin Hard fork will  let the prices dump, but i don't know what will happen if we have such as BTU ...

when bitcon Hard fork which coin i should choose.

There wont be any split in the bitcoin community as BU is dreaming to take over the bitcoin platform with a crappy coded software and its true potential is exposed many times and even if they fork it will be considered as an alt coin and it might not have any value and will be discarded ,the OP really thinks that if there is a split he will be holding BU with a valuation of $200 per coin which is a good dream and it wont be the case and really i do not want to see a split in the block chain but would like to see a fork which is done carefully by the core team to combat the transaction issue.

i think that is not the hard fork that is bad, what is bad is the possibility of chain to split in two chain with both chain have the same amount of coin and those coins can be dumped by anyone because they would have 2x the amount of coins, this si bad for any coin, will kill the value completely

But that is what happened to ETH: ETH split into ETH (new) and ETC, so people had 2x the coins.

ETC was dumped from around 5$ to 2$, while ETH went from 10$ to 50$. Both survived.

so BTC, if it splits into BTC (Segwit) and BTU, will be in a similar situation.

Let's face it: the money, the market cap, is not leaving Crypto. People who have large crypto assets will not leave crypto because BTC splits IMHO.  :P

The only question is, which side will win? Just don't sell your BTC or your BTU and watch from the sidelines  ;D

I'm  not an expert of bitcoin but look likes very necessary to do the fork.

Guys, BU 44% of the support right now! https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-unlimited-share

in a perfect world there would be a bugfix + 2MB blocks for Core, to buy some time for a proper decision, instead of this Segwit vs Bitcoin, Plague vs Cholera situation  :'(

With the previous experience in ETH/ETC split, resulting in duplicate amount and loss, I am sure the exchanges are all prepared for the potential BU hardfork.

For me, I will just hold tight to my coins and try not to initiate any transaction during the transition period... Who know? I might be 2x richer after the fork???

if you are not an expert how do you know "it is necessary to fork"?!!


then i guess you haven't heard the word: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1833761.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184
https://68.media.tumblr.com/11cfa5a69704c7e0222ee7f2621d1536/tumblr_o6gf347bjI1ql6i9zo1_500.gif

Because people moving to ETH/DASH

Not only network and community support will be splitted between two coins, marketcap will also be splited which may cause massive price dump for bitcoin on starting days due to panic among bitcoin holders. But on long run BTU may die and bitcoin will grow stronger and we have already got sign from trading platform that they will keep using btc (core) as bitcoin chain rather than BTU.

again my question remains unanswered.

and yeah right! pan to the left on those charts to see other times people "moved to ETH/Dash" and about 100 other altcoins. here is some help: https://coinmarketcap.com/ some of them were even worth 8.342BTC once (1 shitcoin unit = $5941.80)

Okey Thanks for the explanation  ;)

Since everyone is calling for a fork so each and every individual is calling for a fork without knowing what it is ,that is what happened here. :D People are not moving to ETH and Dash because of bitcoin,people are investing in alt coins for a very long time and now these alts had a great push ,regarding the fork the core has to increase the block size to 2 mb to tackle the recent issue and then look for a better alternative at a later time and i do thing that is the best option in order to avoid any split.

Almost but it didn't and still doing so well until these days, yes we can't compare what will happen to bitcoin if the network split into two but at least more or less bitcoin will face the same process. If we don't agree, let it be still one, just bitcoin but higher block size is needed. But why so many miners support bitcoin unlimited? How could it be beneficial for them? Just speculate it is related to money into pocket (higher fees).

Don't be stupid don't fork the network, let it bleed to death if needed but don't shoot it in the head saying lets put it out of it's miseries, if bitcoin forks however we all should consider the responsible party as hostile and enemy of the network, a successful attack on bitcoin and discard their chain exit their pools and stand behind the Core to help the system to get back up.
Anyone doing a hard fork without %95 consensus is for sure the enemy remember that.

I remember Lauda told me some months ago that there is nothing going to happen like hard fork in bitcoin's life. To my mind that's ok because hard forks on ethereum caused that many people were upset about that and their trust went down as I understand from people's reply on this forum. That no hard forks makes bitcoin trustworthy..

Thanks, now I understand it better  ;D

Can anybody here create a easy to understand explanation to what this is all about? Cause it has become very confusing what is going on with Bitcoin Unlimited and it wanting to become an alt coin and ETH becoming it's own from starting as toting itself as a smart contract. :-[
A youtube video perhaps? :-\

Maybe some guys make some profit in the short term, but I think for the long term this would be something bad for Bitcoin. Things like this will define how users and investors will see Bitcoin in the future.

+1. Thank you @Lauda. OP, you can checkback in 5 years and see how things turned out.  :)

Bitcoin's integrity has remained intact - fear mongerers have been aplenty in the past, are here today, and will come in the future and they will and have said 'Bitcoin is flawed, it is bugged, and action needs to be taken to change it relatively soon!' - wrong, wrong, wrong. Bitcoin has worked beautifully as the world's premier store of value/investment and again its integrity has remained intact.

You must be mistaken, I was probably referring to a specific hard fork and not all hard forks in general.

Nobody that has any integrity, or brain power for that matter, is moving to either shitcoin.

You probably need not worry about it in that case. You could just read up about hard forks in general, which would be a decent starting point if you wanted to.

The answer is simple if you dont want any hardfork then there must be only one blockchain. The solutions are out there then let the choice be made what are we hesitating for?
The problem is that people are still deciding whether to pick BU or bitcoin core devs. Arguing and debating will not solve anything in the end when bitcoin scaling is getting worse day by day. After all this is all trial and error