Bitcoin Forum

What is the reason that Bitcoin unlimited members don't creating their own Altcoin (BTU) ?
Then there wouldn't be a hardfork !

Because they don't want to be an Altcoin, they want to be Bitcoin and think that BU is Bitcoin. Bitcoin allows changes to its protocol and they see their change as such. Different developers and clients are ok. I learned that the longest valid chain and the biggest hashrate usually correspond. This is why they have a point to be the Bitcoin in case of a fork with over 50%.
Others view it as a attack where you gain +50% by playing by the rules and immediately after it changing the rules.
And frankly right now this is a political thing and both side sees the other one as threat to Bitcoin so they fight to "kill" the other idea/course of action.

Yup, except the exchanges already declared that BTU will be considered as an altcoin, so there's not really a lot of room for ambiguity at this point.

This is because they want their changes applied to Bitcoin, they do not care of the altcoins, what they want is to fork Bitcoin.

Roger Ver said himself that bitcoin is his life and all his money are into bitcoin. He spent his time with this so why will he move to other altcoin. You spent entirely your whole life in these, and obviously, you will not throw that away, you must help it to survive. And the fact that bitcoin is known in the world, if these is supported, it will be again popular.

Simply because of the network effect. That means bitcoin has value because people want it. If people reject bitcoin and go to the 'next big thing' then not only the price will collapse but and all the market in a short period too. So what miners do with all of these investments in machines and infrastructures? How do they pay their loans?  I found and share with you a well documented article which entitled as The 7 Network Effects of Bitcoin (http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-7-network-effects-of-bitcoin/). To my point of view it is worth to take a look.

If he would trully love the BTC so much, he would find the solution to work with CORE developers. But sadly his love grown into something like totalitarianism where he sees himself as the king of BTC, so he wants absolute ruling power and also to triple his money in short run. This is just opposite from what the BTC should really look: decentralized peoples money.

Have you ever wondered what you would do if you have the qualities and potential to make bitcoin evolution as what is thought by roger ver and Jihan wu?

I will also do the same thing if it gets a lot of support from the miners, no matter what the price will be down for a while because eventually price will find a stable point. evolution and revolution requires sacrifice from the main system. altcoin will not establish a new concept of bitcoin. If you think bitcoin will be exhausted and abandoned by user, then the mind must begin with yourself. I'll stick with bitcoin whatever the circumstances, developer also will not give up so easily leave you.

If BTU is created as an altcoin, their efforts would be useless I guess. They're aiming to change bitcoin and not just creating another coin which is will definitely fail because people won't attracted to, and hey the genuine bitcoin is still there, why moving over?  ::) .

BTU is not a real threat to me, BTC is the founding father and still prevail in the use, I see Qtum and some altcoin is real ancamanya for BTC, but if you look at the BTC and some gambling sites, markets hardware, software, and curency still choose bitcoin. so I assume BTC will still have a hefty price.

I think they can not control bitcoin if BTU is altcoins, in my bad mind they are trying to change bitcoin
become fiat currency and first step they must blamed the miners of bitcoin,
so they can push the hard fork can be done then they can control the miners of bitcoin of course with bitcoin too.

It's simple if they will term it as alt coin they will loose their market, Bitcoin is already famous. They do not need to build a new market for it. People who will be new will buy bu, thinking it's is Bitcoins. Not all will be able to tell a difference and it is a sad scenario, that the community is so far divided on this issue. Had the community taken a stand things would have been different but sadly it's very difficult to know what will happen now. The exchanges have taken the right step and called it as a alt coin.

Have you ever seen a 'BTU' ?

Isnt this just a fiction?

Who init that ?


Aha - it s just a meta to divide and conquer...  FUD alert.

The nature of the BTU is the greed of the miners, so it is essentially an altcoins, it is like the other altcoins, it grows based on the core of bitcoin. It is a copy altcoin, and it is a shameful kind of money. It can grow based on bitcoin's reputation, but I think it can not grow strongly, people will gradually forget it. It caused an internal battle of bitcoin, which made the value of bitcoin decrease, and people felt hated it.

I m sure you ve forgotton about what bitcoin really is. It is a game stabelized by greed. We see just the track it was planned to be on.

Exchanges don't get to decide if its going to be an altcoin.  If the longest chain starts mining >1mb then it is what it is.  Somehow I don't think the miners will allow
the minority chain to retain the rights to the Bitcoin name.  The stakes are too high.

That's the core point of all this debate

So, if BU is started like an altcoin, then it is set to fail, right? And what does it basically tell us? That it has essentially nothing to suggest to its potential users beyond what they already have with the old Bitcoin. As to me, this is flat-out ridiculous. If they actually did something monumental, they wouldn't give a fuck about a name or any connection with Bitcoin. They would fire it up and reap the profits of their technological (or whatever advantages. But there is just none, and that's hilarious

Who are those miners really and why we should take them seriously?

If they want to fork, good riddance to them. Once they branch off (and this is a big once, so to speak), they sever all ties with the old Bitcoin apart from sharing the same blockchain until some point in the past. After all, it is them who is going to fork, so by definition they don't have any rights to the name. But ultimately, this is irrelevant since why would they ever want to retain the canonical name instead of just sticking to what they might ever want to choose for a name (Unlimited, Undisputed, or whatever). The answer is simple, they have basically nothing to offer and bring forward. It is all about money, not about innovation or improvement

Doesn't matter exchanges can still list longer chain as BTU and shorther as BTC. OR just change names. Longer chain BTU and shorther BTX

 actually, see BTU has an attempt to go through a 51% attack to Bitcoin. IMO if this happens Bitcoin loses its credibility. So I do think that BTU should be considered as an altcoin...

they all want a piece of the pie
and currently bitcoin has a ready market to trade in
and going the altcoin way will be expensive  and time consuming to build back up to the level bitcoin is today.

Well the pursuit of reality and the pursuit of delusion are two distinct path of choices and if they've decided to choose delusion we better leave them until they find out the only thing that remains is reality. They can create whatever Altcoin or fork as hard as they can but Bitcoin will remain and will never be doped.

According to you, BU supporters start a 51% attack on Bitcoin and the latter loses all credibility?

Did I get you right? As to me, the only ones who would lose all credibility (provided they had any in the first place, of course) in that case would be the BU folks themselves. Why would they want that if they were not there exclusively for money? Are they afraid to compete or what? If they are, then this Bitcoin Undisputed may in fact not be worth a dime? Apart from that, I am also leaning toward the idea that BU should be considered as an altcoin, though for a host of other reasons

actually what it hardfork? Issues that were created or simply a 'hot' right now, in retrospect between bitcoin and BTU that can co-exist, because as I know BTU that the system is almost the same with bitcoin, just BTU can provide acceleration of transactions in each block being in the mine because it can contain thousands of transactions more than is done by the mining bitcoin, to sum it is also the same coin coin 21 million, continues to present a problem was what exactly?

Assuming miners are rational they will switch to the highest valued coin in the case of a fork, so the fork should not be sustained for long.

SegWit is the alt

SegWit has many radical changes.  

BU just puts things back the way they were before 1MB limit.  BU is the same old bitcoin.

SegWit + LN is an entirely different 2-layer system.
SegWit is the alt

No one is going to fork SegWit (at least, so far)

If you (or whoever else) don't like SegWit you can continue to use (mine) old bitcoins and happily think that you use the good old Bitcoin. I guess no one would give a fuck. But the problem with your logic is that it is the BU folks who are going to fork the current version of Bitcoin, not SegWit. They could just disagree with Bitcoin Core team when the latter go for it finally and stay with the trusted version instead. But that's not how matters actually stand now. SegWit is still far away in the future, and no one is spreading FUD about it, surprisingly

Surely a BTU altcoin would be the cleanest option. And I have already said in other threads that it may not be the worst for the Bitcoin Unlimited supporters. Above all if they base the initial distribution on recent Bitcoin balances, like the "Clams" altcoin did, and maximal coin supply and reward schedule are not changed.

They may not get an user network like BTC from the beginning, but they could demonstrate their technology works and doesn't lead to centralization. At the same time, they could continue to advocate for Emergent Consensus in the "true" Bitcoin, but without holding up the hard fork threat.

I know they want to change Bitcoin, but even that could work at the end: If their EC system works well in the wild (where I unfortunately have my doubts) they would have two "success options" that could make them profit from this strategy: 1) BTU becoming a strong cryptocurrency 2) their EC system having chances of being adopted in BTC, too (that would be difficult, but not impossible, as their opponents would lose a major argument if it works well).

BU already is Bitcoin. 

SegWit is a whole bag of new bullshit rules - imposed upon Bitcoin. 

SegWit is the alt.

Look at you, you have big font so it must be true.

SegWit represents new rules and the potential use of a far more convenient Lightning Network - it is a change to what Bitcoin currently is, but it would just be an update to the code which is entirely normal and wouldn't change anything about what Bitcoin actually does.

BU would be a new coin - Bitcoin owners would automatically own it but it would still literally be a new coin.  As CCN reasonably defines altcoins (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/altcoin/), it's any cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin - which it would be, it would be BTU, not BTC.

I think this is because they want to seperate Bitcoin, they want to turn BTU into a branching version of Bitcoin. The BTU is designed to help users choose their own transaction block size via the graphical user interface. Bitcoin is considered a decentralized open source, but not entirely. Bitcoin Core does not want to transfer power to other members of Blockchain. Bitcoin Unlimited allows the block size to be changed based on demand in the Blockchain network, allowing the technology to be freely changeable depending on the situation. I think due to disagreement, the ability offal to divide Bitcoin is huge and therefore they do not want BTU to be an altcoin type.

Because they are very greedy, they want BU to be a BTC, they want it to be a core coin that dominates the market, and when they can do what they want, we can say they will. Satisfy their greed. They wanted bitcoin to change the protocol but kept the developers and customers alike. However, that did not happen, they faced the intense resistance of the market and all of us. And that is a disadvantage for them. Hardfork happens and bitcoin will definitely branch out, we can not guess who is the winner. A fork appeared, and as a result changed the market.

The main reason of the developers of bitcoin on not turning to be an altcoin is the time and effort of bitcoin to become a crypto-currency in a high level. So it will not waste the effort and the time given by the community of bitcoin just to make its value to increase. And as we see bitcoin value is hitting its highest pick for now and it definitely make people to choose bitcoin on transaction that fiat. The more opportunities will come for the businesses to do.

but if satoshi changed it to 1mb there must be a reason right? we should follow what satoshi did and remain with 1mb for now, until better proposal are accepted like segwit, going back to 32MB is not a solution dude, it would make bitcoin suffer ddos and spam attack, because bitcoin don't need 32MB of block, i'm looking more forward to extention block than segwit, i like that new idea just need more testing

1. segwit is an alt because it begun as an alt hint: blockstream:elements:segwit network
2. segwit uses (core devs admitted) a anyonecanspend opcode exploit backdoor to slide in the altcoin and then attempt to get people to then move funds away from bitcoin native keys to segwit altcoin keypairs after activations, for only a hope of the half promises.
3. segwit is running inactively for just 6 months(no segwit blockstructure(2merkles) or segwit key function).
4. other implementations continue using native keypairs and have been running ACTIVELY on the network for years, (pre-empt rebuttle: much like when bitcoin nodes had the 1mb rule but pools were only making blocks below 500kb. did not mean the nodes were inactive, they were active..)

now thats clarified.
many implementations are running on bitcoins mainnet to keep it diverse and decentralised. each with their own proposals. but the only proposal with all the banning, blocking, bombing and splitting.. is blockstream(core). so maybe blockstream(core) show split off..

by this i mean BLOCKSTREAM...
and then the REAL independent core devs can concentrate on bitcoin away from blockstreams bait and switch of half gestures

The main reason for Roger Ver, Jihan and all those to not create it as an altcoin is that they know BUcoiners dont give a fuck about it, they just want to steal the bitcoin brand. They know competing against bitcoin as an altcoin and let the market freely buy their altcoin if their idea of bitcoin is so much better than the core roadmap would fail, so they want to cause as much as destruction as possible in the process.

I think they rely on the present value of BTC, If refresh will have to build from scratch.

I feel disgusted with BTU, I even hate people who want BTU to appear. BTU is formed from the idea of those who want to sabotage bitcoin, they take the name of the miners to do that evil, according to a statement published two weeks ago, when the BTU was killed, They have confirmed that the BTU by those who wanted to sabotage the bitcoin, they set up a very meticulous plan, but it was exposed. So, never expect BTU to appear, I hate guys like you.

Because they are fckn thieves that's why. All they want is to steal bitcoin's wealth/userbase. They don't have the balls to start from nothing and they know that their BU code is useless without the bitcoin fanbase. They didn't invent bitcoin but they want to be look like they did it.