Bitcoin Forum

There's certainly a lot of action building up on the market, waiting to explode (potentially). What's the decision date for the split that we should all be tracking toward?

Thanks.

no one know it's based on consensus, there are the chance that it will never be decided and remain in this state forever, if both part can't make their mind

or maybe it can happen in few week, it's not somethign that you can predict, even antpool who was the first supporting BU is not pointing all the miners there

for now if you are concerned about your investment just hold your coins, bitcoin won't lose its value much mor, i see the market is pretty stable now

The same way BTC vs Bitcoin XT was decided, price will rise everyone is going to forget about stupid shit like forks.

I see a lot of FUD these days.
BU promised they will not deploy before 75% (I think it was 75%, but I'm not sure; it was a big % anyway) and now they threaten with 51% attack.
However, their support reached 39%+ and was thought to be unstoppable and .. surprise, their support decreased ~2% in ~2 days now. So even that is very far.

SegWit needs even higher percent to be deployed: 95%. Current support is under 30%


TL;DR While a lot of FUD was spread out, neither BU nor SegWit are close to be deployed.

Well there are other ways to get SegWit activated. UASF ist discussed at the moment and in development as far as I know.
And yes at the moment we stuck. And the FUD will probably continue.It's coming in in waves.
We'll see how the community deals with that circumstances and situation in the future.
But imo as long as this issue isn't finally solved I doubt we will moon to $2000 or even new ATHs this year.
And I think it's in the interest for all of us to finally find a solution.This ongoing debate/war since 2+ years now is really annoying.
Something has to happen.

This time could be real that there will be a hard fork. The market wants bigger blocks to accommodate the larger transactions.

Yup we just dont know what it will do with the price.

No. The market wants the transactions be cheap and fast. The market doesn't give a beep on the block size.
While BU promises to solve the bottleneck on the blockchain (bottleneck clearly created by spam attack and many voices are claiming it's actually BU supporters that spam attack the network and create that bottleneck!), BU will not make transactions faster and may make Bitcoin network more vulnerable.
I am not telling that SegWit is the best solution, but at least it looks like a more future-proof attempt.
Good solutions need time, not silly wars.

Now, whose account is this? You just prove my point about FUD.

It totally depends upon the support from miners, actually if segwit get activated there will be no split of bitcoin network which is better than having two chains if unlimited get its activation point of 75% support which is very far from current support level.

if i wasn't 100% sure before that there will be NO FORK, i am 100% sure now.
i just read this myself on the wall observer topic so i am going to share it here also.
https://i.imgur.com/V9OK6Wt.png
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/846266755391512577

with this we are sure that F2Pool which is one of the biggest mining pools out there, is not going to support BU and without them and many other miners who are not with them, we can safely add BU to Classic and XT and Unlimited,...

and as far as price is concerned we can expect $1200 pretty soon.

We don't know - depends on the miners, and they're a cartel with low accountability and low transparancy.

I honestly think the market wil get so fed-up with this, that they will switch to another coin. Ether is already at a third of bitcoin's marketcap.

You can't just safely add BU with Classic and XT when it has 38% support. It's just 13% shy of a 51% attack.
It's possible for something like this (https://news.bitcoin.com/new-22-petahash-mining-pool-signaling-bitcoin-unlimited/) to happen again.

It's safe to say that neither side will reach its consensus target, so it will be interesting to see how things unfold in the coming months.

BU is bitcoin.   


It's BU vs Core, not BU vs BTC.     

BU and Core both are both bitcoin right now, so it's unfair to call the one bitcoin and the other not.

In fact BU even has more hashrate, so if anything, BU is the real bitcoin right now.

It will really be interesting in the coming months and probably we will see more fuds to be spread around. The market in my speculation will experience a bearish up and down market in terms of price in the next coming months which will be profitable for everyone, so let's watch the news closely as the BU vs Core war happens because I think this war against hard fork will drive the price in the next coming weeks.

BU vs Core is really bad drama in my life, that's give a lot of the impact for the market. This such BU coin will be the other shit coin if that will be got release in the future. totally crap BUllshit.

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FV9OK6Wt.png&t=575&c=St94JS_DW_adtw


Come on! He just says there will be no fork without any reason. He doesn't point out why. He does not support SegWit. He does not say he won't switch to BU.
And his opinion on Core Devs you see a few lines below:

https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/844726167575785472

It's possible to dislike the core devs, but dislike BU even more. In fact, I'd wager most of us are in that camp, to a certain extent.

I could bite that theory, that they are spamming the network. Blockchain can proceed like half milion transactions a day and for me its more than enough. BU with cheaper transactions can also be spammed the same way, if not even easier and will create a lot of new problems. Lets face it, bitcoin is not a payment processor to buy pizzas, but rather a store of value and a hedge for falling governments. I also think that we don't need BTC to do everything and I'm happy if he had new crypto that would be great fast and cheap transaction processor and BTC would be a value to back it up.

Every single thing on this planet changes, upgrades, whatever name it.
Why not accept BU? Because some folks are going to lose the capita?
Why don't they thing that we need faster, cheaper BTC transactions in the future?
For me it's 100% normal to switch to BU like in a decade we must change to the new BU version 2 and going on...

Thats not a true statement. The things with most value are those that stand like a stone unchanged. The most expensive chocolate would be that one, thats reciepie does not change for hundreds of years and you, your grandfather and your grandchildren would eat a chocolate that tastes exactly the same.

If bitcoin defends from both segwit and bu, that should be a really good news and will attract long term investors.

Some miners will support the BU. So they will move out of F2pool. We will find out in the next few weeks.

-> Yes BU can be considered as failed attempt to fork healthy bitcoin network, started with spam transactions to create hypothetical block size problem.

-> Bitcoin have already started to pump hard, so i expect price to reach over $1200 within next week.  ;D

Within this week it will scale back to $800, mark my words.

Marked.

It would be a nice buying opportunity. Just bring it on!

no, we brokenthe bearish 1000$ line. So up we go.

Why are you guys saying BU is dead? Don't get me wrong I support Core & hope BU does die but they still maintain & sizeable hashrate & number of nodes yes?

Wave 5 is up to $1080-1100 then back to $759-800 before he hit a new ATH only IF there is no HF. Because a HF will mean even $300 prices.

Is it really? If they're both bitcoin why is there concern that people will flee bitcoin for BU? Why are there questions about how people will get coins on the BU blockchain? If it's a competition between which is going to continue on in the future they must be separate entities fighting for the same name.

If BU and Core are both bitcoin...what's trading when I go to Blockchain.info? Is it BTC Core or BU? Are there separate exchanges for BU?

If they're both bitcoin then no one should be concerned...obviously that's not happening right now.



Instead of a fork, creating (what sounds like) a separate currency. Why can't we all agree to halt trading for 48 hours or a week to allow the capability for greater blocksize to be coded in...i.e., increase the pipes to allow greater flow. Then after the agreed upon timeframe the exchanges open back up and transactions can resume.

None of that is needed.

You can change the code without needed to halt trade.

You can even write a rule like:

From block 500,000 onwards, blocksize will be 4MB.

Absolutely true and I bet that many people around knew that.
It is one of these easy stories that drop the market two floors down, when necessary.
I expected this story, or a similar one, to pop up again after the next leg up. And again, it will create a shitstorm for couple of days only to ignite a drop, with no real effect on Bitcoin development.

BU will never be accepted by the community because it is a centralized company trying to do a hostile takeover of Bitcoin. Core are a volunteer bunch of developers (some of whom are paid by MIT and Blockstream) but any developer can volunteer to work for core and help make Bitcoin better. BU want in install a president of Bitcoin, not all the code they release is reviewed, not all the code they release if visible for anyone to see, and all developers are paid employees. So if BU ever manages to take over the Bitcoin chain, Bitcoin will lose 90+% of its value within 2 years, people will move to independent alts. Who wants a company managing Bitcoin?

So Core developers have released an update called Segwit to improve scaling. This should allow about twice as many transactions as currently allowed and fixes a known bug, but it paves the way for lightning networks which will provide off blockchain transactions for some Bitcoins transactions that are instantaneous and should cost less than 1-5 cents.

Segwit has already been tested and released, it needs support from miners. They are worried about Lightning network so most are not supporting it and many are supporting BU instead.
BU's bigger blocks can also mean smaller blocks, the miners decide on the blocksize, so in theory they could vote for smaller blocks and thus higher fees. Whilst BU promise lower fees. The other issue with larger block is the larger the block the more decentralized the miners become. If the blocksize went much larger quickly only data centres would be able to mine as no one else would have the bandwidth or storage needed. If the blocksize were to hit 4mb in the next year or 2 then the whole of Austrialia and Africa would be unable to process the data needed to mine due to bandwidth. So that is 2 continents without any possible mining.

Larger block sizes still has some merit but BU has none.  If you are after speed, and cheap fees going offchain with LN is the way forward, and Segwit is needed to get to LN.

BU is not dead, and if it dies someone will come along and try and fork Bitcoin.

Last point this is all or nothing. If there is a hard fork to BU then BU has to spend all of its resources killing off the Core chain (they have a $100m kitty for doing this). BU have to do this as if they let a core version of Bitcoin survive everyone will use it. BU is paid internet trolls in USA and a few Trump supporters mixed in with some big Chinese miners (who may be trying to kill Bitcoin on behalf of the Chinese government, or may just be greedy.)

If the Core implements big block, there is no need for the Unlimited. I think Core should be more open.

Let's be very clear about a few basic facts:


BU is a copy of Bitcoin as it was two years ago, with some changes on top of that. That is not an upgrade

Bitcoin upgrades with every new version. Segwit is an upgrade to the protocol itself. Throwing away two years work is not a good idea even if you think the development team must be replaced.


No, it's not. Why would you even say that? There are a bunch of competing Bitcoin implementations. And then there is BU.

It's (BU) vs (Bitcoin Core + btcd + libbitcoin + whatever custom stuff the big exchanges use).

Every major Bitcoin implementation must support a new feature before we can use it in a safe way so no one loses their money.


Core is an open development project. Anyone can suggest improvement, and if you pass peer review and convince other developers that the idea holds water, you are free to implement it. BU wants to replace that with a team of salaried developers. Right now it looks like two salaried developers and zero salaried QA.

Some big blockers supports BU because of the possibility that it might lead to bigger blocks (which nobody has shown how that would work in practice), but the miners support it because they think they have (more) leverage over the two salaried developers in question than they have over the current open source project.

So, no, bigger blocks in Bitcoin Core would perhaps dissuade a handful of people to support BU but the miner support would still be there. They would still want to rip out the last two years of work and replace it with their own developments. This is increasingly clear since Bitcoin will unlock a blocksize increase with segwit, but now BU argues against that increase because it was made by "tainted" developers. That must take an impressive amount of cognitive dissonance for a big blocker.

There's no decision date and there will never be a decision date.  Unfortunately, it's pretty unpredictable, and this uncertainty is partially what resulted in some of the dumps.

There might not be no decision date but we know ourselves that the probability of this decision being decided soon is quite not that likely to happen. I think before it is decided, we will experience more bullish movements on the bitcoin market, some pump and a dump after until the final decision is made. Before that happens, it is a really good opportunity to take advantage of the pumps and dumps that will happen although it can be risky but it is worth watching.  8)

It is true that BU had a lot of momentum and followers a couple of weeks back and even peopl who are not aware of the technical stuff behind it were blindly following what BU was preaching but their hollow codes proved that they cannot be trusted but they are still trying hard for a 51% attack and they claim that they have allocated funds for that,we can only wait and see the end result.

If it's so easy to add greater capacity to Bitcoin, why the f*ck is this debate and controversy so widespread? BU must not matter then...according to you guys.

Because it seems that BU will forever be supported by that ~37% with no hope of reaching 51% hash power.
That makes BU pretty much dead concept and with SegWit constantly supported by ~30% we reached a perfect stalemate situation here.

Well I guess it might stay that way forever but I really hope that it wouldn't end as a stalemate and one side wins. I support segwit between the two but it doesn't matter to me whichever side wins because the community decided it and after all we will profit even if the one or the other wins. Therefore it is a win/win to segwit supporters.

Your prediction turns out to be completely wrong  ;D

Bitcoin price will always have uptrend and the one who just get panic during some correction on price will get busted.  ;)

It has been decided already. BTC works in every single department. The only way BU can cause the disaster-hardfork is if Bitmain invests even more millions on hashrate to cause teh 51% split, then we will see the hardfork but people will quickly dump BTU for BTC because a coin with inferior software centralized in china is just nonsense.

I do not think the hard fork will happen below 75%. The hard fork will be decisive. They will be no prolonged battle.

It could, but that's just not a smart thing to do for pools in financial meaning. In order to mine blocks more or less risk free, you need a larger part (preferably much higher than 50%) of the hash rate to support the exact same block setting as the one that you mine. Without this support, you are throwing away precious block rewards (which can be seen as capital destruction). Basically, everything that they do could harm their operations, which is also why this is taking so damn long to settle.

I agree. Bu is mostly done. Nobody wants to run that buggy stuff with closed source code in it, which also has roles like a president, secretary and such bs.The number of BU nodes continues decreasing by the way.
There won't be a hardfork imo as long as Jihan Wu and his buddies do not try to perform a 51% attack.

That's what I'm thinking, there's no end for this consensus which both sides existence which split the community.
As this matter has lasted for one and a half year, no signs it will end soon. Miners still happy with higher fees, so they divide their vote such as what happen right now. Why, it so hard to upgrade block size limit, at least we need 2Mb so the miners could process more transactions.

If BU gets implement, how will it impact price of BTC.. up or down

down bigtime. Every time that BU notes are rising the BTC price goes down quickly. There is an negative correlation between the number of BU blocks mined and the price of BTC. It looks like the market is scared of a possible fork and so chainsplitting as a result of BU. Fact is that we both need bigger blocks and SegWit. We need 2mbSegWit blocks. There is not an other alternative. Only SegWit will make more scaling in the future a lot harder. We also need a forced SegWit and 2mb blocks because we will never reach 95% supporting SegWit.

BU has got out and BTC has been gaining support continuously from the day the BU got the bug crash. Hopefully BU simply made a big challenge to the bitcoin. Now if something has happened supporting BU it might have gone under a controling authority who makes decision on price movements.

Yeah. They are dead already. The support is decreasing everyday. I think SegWit currently at 31% support. Bitcoin price is steady rising at ~1% everday. Slowly but surely. But if hardfork happens, it will pull the price of bitcoin bigtime and we don't want that to happened. So we are all happy the BU didn't get support and dying already. FUD spread has also gone in our community. So I think they already given up. Maybe their strategy now is blocking the implementation of SegWit.

with the segwit below 35% and BU above 40%, there will not be a fork soon. The market is happy.