Bitcoin Forum

I did a break down of 5% jumps at ten cents  on bitmain's new miner  for ltc

I would love to read guesses as to why a bargain price.

Space

please  give your best ideas on this.

The current numbers I used are 5% per jump.
 jumps come fast for ltc  so 5%  is a high number to use.

This seems to be a market shifting move. On their part.

My tin foil hat theory is that they are going to start cranking these out every 2-3 months and its going to drive difficulty sky high which will make these prices that seem crazy low now, more sensible later. Alternatively they may be trying to corner market and shut out Innosilicon by undercutting to drive business, maybe these first offerings are a loss leader to drive attention.

Another alternative is, they may be trying to flood the market with LTC mining hardware to stop Segwit as I believe they are currently against that.

If Segwit is successful on LTC it's going to drive a huge argument for it to be activated on BTC Chain and Bitmain is against that by itself as they have a specific agreement where they are willing to move forward with Segwit.

Yep  that bold  line is my guess.

Personally I have no faith in LTC to maintain a decent price.  I don't know if bitmain feels that way too or not.

Let's agree that they are not idiots to sell at loss.
My guess is that they have large number of units ready, with a quick calculation you will find that few thousands units can double the difficulty.
It could be that they will take lots of orders before shipping large amount at once, they will sell like hot cakes

The recent news and leaked communication about why Bitmain is agains Segwit for me is the answer and this market move is as ugly as possible and we should not fall with that but unfortunately most miners look only for profit and don't care for the development of technologies, they look only for ROI. And they will fall for that and buy the miners no matter what we talk. Like stated in the leaked email Bitmain have crippled down all their miners in terms of power efficiency and speed - the same ones in their hands produce 30% more speed with 30% less power consumption, what else can I say.

It's actually one of the reasons why I am holding back on ordering one (I'm a small fish I guess  ;) ). It just seems too good to be true..

Which is why I mentioned this and made the thread.

I have purchased more then 100,000 in gear from bitmain.  So I don't hate them.  But people need to see the risk  in buying this gear.

Which  to me would be flooded market and a really long ROI.

Not that bitmain would do this to BTC , but in fact they did do it to BTC when they fought with Sp-Tech with sp20 against s-5.  that fight crashed the price of BTC  down to about 189-190 usd in Jan 2014

Batch 2 sold out too and they just now announced batch 3 for delivery in july. Maybe it is their purpose to crash, buy low and sell high? With hardware already being sold they hardly can loose..

What is your educated guess for ROI with this?

maybe late fall  early winter say nov  or   dec. 

I don like what I see being done.  This is about  market manipulation via selling lots of miners too cheaply.

My guess is their cost for a miner is under 500 usd.  so  they are making big bucks on these.

Unless Bitmain has some inside info on the future direction of either BTC or LTC, it's hard to make sense of this. Other possibilities:

1) BTC and LTC are essentially the #1 and #2 crypto currencies. One is going segwit and the other is not. Maybe a practical business person instead of
trying to guess the future, has a foot in both camps. Possibly by making LTC a stronger competitor, you increase your leverage over the BTC devs.

2) Perhaps to continue to have the capability of designing/building low cost miners and having fab access for ASIC mining chips perhaps you need to keep a certain volume in the product pipeline.

Agreed here, but this move could also backfire, as many pools already signaling segwit.

Latest batch shows July delivery. If Bitmain is indeed attempting to stop Segwit by flooding market with miners, they may have waited too long.

Another thing is they could drop the requirement from 75% to 65% -- if that vote was successful, Segwit would be active right now.

Well ltc  has less gear then btc.

they are able to fully flood the ltc with gear  and they get the money upfront.

So I think they figure no matter what happens  they got paid.

I had ltc at 51 usd a coin and watched it fall to   under 6.  LTC  is the only coin that I  lost on.  Well into the thousands  maybe 6 or 7 k loss.

The ltc market is about to get shaken up just like it did in  2014.

To all that felt froggy and took a leap I hope you don't get  caught and cooked.

I bag hold LTC I mine but I lost access to an LTC Core wallet a while back and lost a chunk.

I'm rebuilding with the intentions of holding it and seeing what happens.

However I don't allocate all my Scrypt hash to LTC payouts, I diversify between multiple coins.

  Pretty much think  you are on the right track   with the exception of price of LTC.

Honestly i don't care why they sell them so cheap.
Even when they try to flood the market --> by the time the July Batch is out my L3+ are nearly at the ROI point.
And the current L3 and L3+ will produce profit until i believe 8 or 9 times the current difficulty. And we are faaaaaaar away from that

I have absolutely no worries to ROI with those L3+ and make huge profit (and we have pretty high electricity costs here)

Its very simple business practice.

They know that people only buy when ROI is attractive. So instead they mass produce their miners, but don't turn them "ON" yet until all the miners are sold. Since its "FINAL SALE" there is nothing anybody can do.

It seems to have worked because it sold out in minutes.

If they turned their miners "ON" and difficulty quadrupled within a few days then they would get less sales.


Common sense.

They put ASICBOOST on their scrypt chips as well, so as soon as segwit activates, these will only hash at 300 MH  ;D

yep ...at 3000mh for ltc buko bucks......difficulty doubles....I have L3's (4) up now) for this month...a ok
and L3+'s  for 6000 mh then (next month again) doubled hash cancels out double difficulty.....if LTC difficulty triples
from now...on that 3rd month....I'm at the same rate i was getting with 2000mh at 4.17c kwh...i think it was 2k a month

and with that ...I would think difficulty would flatline for a bit...bitmain would like to mine themselves I'd think without shooting selves in
foot once they wiped out any chance at these prices and these amount of pow scrypt miners for any competition for more than a year
I'd think

thus went up the wave (month 1) sat  on the wave (month 2) and down the other side to normal 1 month ago revenue (month 3)

as someone who sat on more or less flat difficulty for 2 years with evil knc titans a guy can hope :)

Also the wild card is charlie lee of LTC....IF he can get seg witness thru before btc and IF like he says lighting network would be 'weeks' behind that

well hell $50 coin ..all is forgiven by me towards the drama/angst bitmain has put me through on all this

(hubba, hubba bitmain baby..you are one hot bi-polar mess but I'd love you long time ) :)

go charlie go...may the force be strong with you and you get your jedi team togther to fight the evil asic machine empire ...bitmain (burhahahaha evil laugh here)

I've been up too long :)

later

I think bitmain is going to allow segwit for ltc.  Which would be a brilliant fuckover to anyone that purchased these.

my new tin foil hat theories: This is not one singular theory

Bitmain is going to allow Segwit on LTC and that will demonstrate what it does to hash power on their miners. Then they will go back to the BTC side and say "See! Segwit hurts your miners performance!" That will probably kill the idea of Segwit on BTC entirely.

Bitmain has realized the future is not in Bitcoin mining and they have decided to invest elsewhere, since they are relatively new to the LTC space, they are under pricing their miners in an effort to get their hardware out there and make a name for themselves. As LTC price drives up and Bitmains performance in the Scrypt coin market increases, they will increase the prices on their miners.

You could be right.  

   This move is soooooo very unusual I sold off some more BTC yesterday.  
  I also thought  they have been reading my theory on how AMD , Nvidia, Intel and all component companies can simply feed  some money into Zec to get us to buy  gear.

Bitmain    can not do this with BTC  since too much BTC is wallets.
Soooo Bitmain  fed money into LTC raised its price  to sell this gear.

So bitmain  did this because of me. (my tongue is planted in my cheek)

but  the math works. To some degree

http://coinmarketcap.com/

https://i.imgur.com/CJNHKI7.png

The widespread speculation is that the miner will work but it will lose the enhanced hashing power of AsicBoost

Some speculate that it will make the miner not work at all.

The actual answer: only Bitmain knows and they aren't talking.

My bet is that its going to lose some hashrate but I'm still in if it does.

I might be mistaken but doesn't asicboost have to be enabled both poolside and miner side?  I was under the impression that miners purchased by the public were not using it because A) only bitmain's pool (or pools) has (or have) it enabled and B) the miners don't have it enabled either.

When the S9 first dropped (actually right before it was for sale to the public) there was some controversy over whether it would work on Kano.is because someone got their hands on one way early and it was trying to use asicboost and Kano.is obviously didn't have that setup. So Kano's pool saw it as sending unknown stratum commands and was dropping it from the pool.

So my understanding was that if asicboost is not compatible with segwit it would only hurt bitmain's internal mining operation.  

EDIT: I should mention that I did see where bitmain claimed they have never used it on mainnet and only ever used it on testnet but I can't see any reason to believe that.  The miners are capable of it, they admitted that much, they run the miners and the pool, why would they not use it?

http://www.coindesk.com/asicboost-uasf-greg-maxwell-bitcoins-path-forward/

The "Public Note"
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-April/013996.html


You are correct. As I posted earlier, these tactics, if one of my theories is true, could backfire and have other undesired effects.

This move got me to sell some btc yesterday.
I am still wondering what will happen here.

asic boost is pool side ,  i dont think it affects the people buying the hardware but for bitmain it makes sense to sell off the gear since thier profitable self mining will go down 30% so the gear is worth more to them sold than self mining at least till the next

hack

For ASIC boost, could you tell the difference between a more efficient poolside proprietary algorithm and the pool operator just sprinkling an extra 30% coin hashing bonus on miners?

Could BM just try to buy  votes by fielding Y units for every X units sold, and just carving off the bonus from the units he fields?

I like tinfoil, hats are great but much better use is to block that sunlight, sprayed water does the thing. You ready?

This asic 'giveaway' is just one small part of this hole ponzi-like btc&ltc pump that started somewhere in summer of 2016 )).

Whats with all the conspiracy theories? They dont use asicboost on mainnet theyve said. I havent seen any evidence showing otherwise.

Regarding segwit I dont know what it is exactly, all I know is I dont support it. Wanna know why? Because all I see is toxic BS and smear campaigns on twitter. I just can't be bottered reading up on it. If you (ppl spamming segwit support) cant debate/discuss stuff like adults, then how good can their shit be? Not saying ppl who support segwit are assholes.. but im sure u've seen what im talking about!

Happy easter and mining ;*

I am against segwit and don't like bu much at all.

I do see a very big shift  in the coin world this year.

I may sell some more BTC

+1
Altcoins will keep exploding and BTC will keep stagnating or even going down.

Well looks like bitmain has shown us a new way to fuck the miners.

To all of you that purchased these I ask one thing  does anyone have one working to show us how nice it is?


Glad I did not buy into it.

I want to thank Bitmain for showing the world that gpu mining is a viable method to mine.

I ordered an asus 1070  same day shipping from amazon
I ordered a Msi 1070 same day shipping from amazon

Spent 880 usd.

they mine at 880h for zec so they earn about 5 dollars a day. 176 days for roi

they can be returned for a full refund for 30 days
they have  a three year warranty.


So My feelings go out to the people that got fucked here.

and for me my gpus got a boost.

ponder this Nvidia is worth 50 billion plus

every BTC and Every LTC together is around  21 billion.

At most  bitmain is worth  3 billion maybe 4 billion. or much less

I will bet on NVIDIA and against bitmain.