Bitcoin Forum

I've been doing some testing, using small transactions with a Blockchain wallet, and I seem to have clogged up the wallet. You can see it here:
https://blockchain.info/address/16fiVNiuWnDY3wV4NbNR7zgMn4FbEbhr5D

There's a transaction there for 0.001 BTC with 0 transaction fee. I suspect that that transaction  is preventing all the following transactions from getting into the blockchain.  None of those transactions appear on Block Explorer.

I presume that this is an issue with BlockChain, not Bitcoin. Or am I wrong?

It has been over 30 hours since that transaction was submitted. Is it possible that it can still be confirmed? If not, what happens to the transaction?

I have a support ticket in with BlockChain to take a look at it, but I don't know how responsive they are.

All you can do is hope that a miner takes pity on your transaction and includes it.  Or, you can offline your wallet, delete the transaction, wait until the rest of the network has forgotten it, then pop back up and use the rawtransaction API to redeem that input (with some others) back to your wallet.

I understand that 0.0 tx fee transactions of a low amount will be delayed. That's understandable. But how long? Is it possible or likely that it would never be processed?

This would make bitcoin unusable for micro payments.

And am I right that one transaction is holding up all the subsequent transactions?

Well, the transaction won't even be relayed by the Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind client because it has an output below 0.01 BTC.

If you had made this transaction from the Bitcoin-Qt client, it will continue to try to re-broadcast the transaction, maybe hourly, and presumably eventually it would reach a miner directly and eventually get mined.

Blockchain.info/wallet doesn't seem to re-broadcast indefinitely.  It seems to abandon a transaction after a certain period of time passes and the transaction doesn't get a confirmation.    The transaction then disappears from blockchain.info/wallet as if it had never been made.

If you need the fund, you could import the private key that spent the funds to another client and try to spend the funds that way.  Of course, that is a double spend and all the other transactions you made using that coin or any children transaction would instantly become invalid.

Bingo!

At the time the logic was developed, a 0.01 BTC payment was a "micro transaction".  Now at an amount over a dollar fifty, there are payments which that you'ld think would not be considered micro transactions but the network does consider them as micro transactions.

Paying a fee resolves that.

The Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind client would have insisted on a fee in this instance.  Blockchain.info/wallet ...  not so much.

This morning when I woke up and checked, all the transactions had cleared:
https://blockchain.info/address/16fiVNiuWnDY3wV4NbNR7zgMn4FbEbhr5D

So, my takeaway is that bitcoin is not entirely unusable for micro payments, but practically unusuable. I'm still not sure if this was an issue with the Blockchain wallet, or with bitcoin.

I did several 0.001 transactions with 0.0005 tx fee using an Armory wallet, and most often the transactions got their first confirmation within 10 minutes. One took over an hour.

I would say that currently there are two barriers to bitcoin being a useful micro payment system:

1. Confirmation delays
2. High relative transaction fee

1. Vendors could start making clearing facilities as coin becomes more widespread, for transactions that need quick clearance
2. Transactions fees should be lowered as the value of coin increases

Bitcoin's reason for existing is to be a payment system that is resistant to external control.

It accomplishes this through distributed storage and decentralized verification process.  

This is expensive as every transaction is relayed to and stored on each node.

Therefore, microtransactions on the bitcoin blockchain are not a good idea.  You can do it today, but the costs (transaction fees) will be relatively prohibitive and results inconsistent (read frequent delays in getting confirmations).

Services that truly require microtansactions (e.g., digital goods sold for pennies a piece, etc.) can implement an E-Wallet so that customers can transact using fewer, larger payments.

Or you might consider something like Ripple.

Blockchain.info have dropped the transaction fee to BTC0.0001 when you use the frugal setting for tx fees at least.

But will it be confirmed with that amount? I forgot I had set mine to 0.0001 and did a transaction, now I'm afraid of it not being accepted by miners...

I think the bigger question is how you managed to make a transaction using a blockchain wallet without paying a transaction fee? I tried it once using the custom send option and it automatically set the fee to 0.0005 and wouldn't let me change it to zero.

Oh it'll be confirmed... eventually. Even zero fee transactions get confirmed after a while.

It took about 5 and a half hours to confirm at 0.0001

0.0001 per kb is the lowest limit that I know of that will be confirmed.  It seems btcguild will confirm down to 0.0001 but won't confirm below that.

The transactions in the OP's post will never confirm unless he makes an arrangement with a miner to include them.  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees   Outputs are below 0.01, so fees are *required*, period.

I don't get how 0.01 would be considered micro when they had planned to go as far as the satoshi.

Say btc becomes incredibly valuable, and 100 Satoshi = 1 usd. Will we not be able to use such amounts?

How would one go about making arrangements with a miner to relay a tx where you forgot the fee? Is there a standard procedure for this, or do you just post a bounty on the Mining forum?

There is no standard procedure for this.  The best you can do is post a bounty on the mining forum and hope that you've provided enough incentive for enough miners to take pity on you and help you out.

Hello,

I found this post while having the same problem on blockchain.info. I made my first micro-transaction using blockchain.info wallet - that also got unconfirmed for hours!

I have the wallet mirrored/exported to another bitcoind hosted on my own. Usually I used that using bitcoind-rpc to send raw-transactions and those transactions (also forced to send without any fee!) usually got confirmed within 10 Minutes to a few hours max.

The transaction on Blockchain.info seems to stay unconfirmed since yesterday while my transactions using my own bitcoind instance got it's first confirmations in about 10-30 Minutes (but still needs about 1-2 hours since full confirmation in the network).


So for what reason ever my own instance of bitcoind is much more reliable for micro-transactions. But having a cloned wallet-instance (import bitcoind wallet.dat on blockchain.info) seems to be a good idea for fallback and backup. But keep in mind to have wallet.dat backed up in another save place as no raw-export of wallet.dat from blockchain.info is possible!


Best regards
Gabriel

f09f044f8f310d6a0a2f49770944155122071077a81b70e520d311795d575403
2441be5fe3e409378464073a13e067a03638f233bebbbbcd6d9cb920af7cdfb7
262471008702b7add704e2ef3a12bd04501dbfa53cea625d7f60b9c4a27418ad

I have been waiting for those since March 11 : 11days, it has been sent without a fee, I am afraid that the transactions will be cancelled after a while and I will never get the money

I don't see any of those transactions. What wallet program are you using?

bitcoin-qt

they are not even showed on blockchain so I guess I lost 0.03 but it is still showed on my wallet

Under the "Help" menu, choose the "Debug Window".  Then choose the "Console" there.

In the console execute the following 3 commands and post the results here:

There you go :


23:29:24

getrawtransaction f09f044f8f310d6a0a2f49770944155122071077a81b70e520d311795d575403


23:29:24

01000000033fc146a0f6d23dd393f6d46db8aed9fecdd5a61d72e5f22ecaf018b4facc7f1f00000 0008a47304402200aef7f6a11b99d10b3d90cc48d22e47e400f188857eeb716f16a36318a556315 02201c5557a34417ab765ef56fd7e5a279a37caab11f05e5a09c8bd8a8214f9729c701410438bdb 7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb3391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d41084217d8 785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b85111da995ffffffff3aa8e289716ae6a7674c36ddca9 83b98db914f6aa74b52676c5eb95bca6b9b0f000000008b48304502202106eb76926e639f4eb3a4 f2028d9bc4bcf0f4b033ec2ebe386a8e638cbd7ef1022100e186de2254fcc0f8a93fd44eed0869b 862d9c3fb28e3a7e7ac1746ada9bbb85901410438bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb339 1cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d41084217d8785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b8 5111da995ffffffff7c253c75b8d61168231c65ffefa94393aeb418b0a7a08f1db9b38706d2e6fc e6010000008c4930460221008df2e149e11cf478b2c72a8bd5c1b8f7fbe440e997f86af0037c17c 4d9fc92f1022100f80a9442fc522d38fe98612518e6ed51a7f9b8c8284b096182a093d756e3c25d 01410438bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb3391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97 d41084217d8785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b85111da995ffffffff02804f1200000000 001976a91427bff90dc013c566e4417c083354c0c79479892288acb0e20d00000000001976a914f a2c4bd9ef7df7f4d4b0f115e12c1c979323b40388ac00000000


23:29:34

getrawtransaction 2441be5fe3e409378464073a13e067a03638f233bebbbbcd6d9cb920af7cdfb7


23:29:34

01000000026026ab94c9cc6a3c95fb2b7ed1f5fbfe04997285f2143c2054d21a7f798e681c01000 0008a4730440220316ad53794ddcebe09bd2473c128a34e50da2343a5d68833a41c47374286ff88 02201cbd51d70729a646453f1c1bd3734666fd83bfcff5ca9164ebeb31f75fcd146901410438bdb 7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb3391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d41084217d8 785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b85111da995ffffffff535814abe4f30f585283b45d27b 5bd6ab52257c0e5acfb5101a696a78e3f4d11000000008b483045022005f03b308443e09a3bc1da 52233e5c9a31533f324c53ca717a8371791877ea88022100af55a908aaa0e4de5d9f861d2bb7cf9 942ded1c123f6298d0f5f5aab7dfcbd4c01410438bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb339 1cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d41084217d8785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b8 5111da995ffffffff02804f1200000000001976a9142352beb54c9004fdef6fe2b156a5039145d0 ba0588aca07f1700000000001976a914fa2c4bd9ef7df7f4d4b0f115e12c1c979323b40388ac000 00000


23:29:41

getrawtransaction 262471008702b7add704e2ef3a12bd04501dbfa53cea625d7f60b9c4a27418ad


23:29:41

010000000403eddd74d0c1b366aba724ead6841742c28fb89d51ffe1bb4acb8e2c74b0e02501000 0008c493046022100dea6c210758be1d2171fad776cc6c2de5386cf4b46ff4a468d484d8b1bf28c eb022100c1c9557aad4cfbce23beb95b31654bdbeef6fcea51f3bed7da795515c55d8b580141043 8bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb3391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d410842 17d8785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b85111da995ffffffffcb6833a0a0d69e8d140e203 fcd7b66f768995683780468bdee39192ef38d89ab000000008a47304402204e25c47558716acc68 ccf317544c6e64848aa45bc11524661c1ffd141467142f022015c9c5e744069c5f64fc05e819cda fb2f7ded5eeb52ed617bc318ef34934a5cc01410438bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb3 391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d41084217d8785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054 b85111da995ffffffffb35cd8482f8826a8d6b216da6b3251e8d865b4c1366d6958e4328776217d e1f7010000008b4830450221008b8485e2fc485b38bd941e442732adabd975e77e86f713440c4ef 0acc50e47d90220601eb942c4d84f198dca254285f2d42aee94ba3b006315f6ad87ae0c135843a5 01410438bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d433d4d6dcb3391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97 d41084217d8785e6ac38727e57d82816dd978efca054b85111da995ffffffff5f485cbd53d626e5 f34e7600a0cfbb76256200eea37e78bd2c22e2e8ce55bacb000000008c493046022100df775b6c1 453e579339aca2a2c6fcadb66fb9952c09102b76bbdf5f7ef34917b022100a061351e639c8691d5 a8decb6edb8820ecabcc2698c342fc50ca6366b0bff14501410438bdb7631fb6e9aaeddd0f5862d 433d4d6dcb3391cd3bae194c5d8395076a1cbfd90cdf97d41084217d8785e6ac38727e57d82816d d978efca054b85111da995ffffffff02804f1200000000001976a91487aaaca8a03fb7c4e47c062 9a12d35e0aa07f01788ac209a1d00000000001976a914fa2c4bd9ef7df7f4d4b0f115e12c1c9793 23b40388ac00000000

These transactions are no longer valid and can never confirm.  The inputs to these transactions have all already been spent elsewhere. You'd have to contact whatever person or company originally sent you the transactions and inform them that the transactions are invalid and that they need to create new transactions to pay you the bitcoins that they owe you.

---

Transaction: f09f044f8f310d6a0a2f49770944155122071077a81b70e520d311795d575403

Has the following inputs:

hash: 1f7fccfab418f0ca2ef2e5721da6d5cdfed9aeb86dd4f693d33dd2f6a046c13f
index: 0
value: 0.01 BTC
spent in transaction: 42c613761c40573ccf791a8b14701d422dc7067e8af4f82dc97320b831cae451

hash: 0f9b6bca5bb95e6c67524ba76a4f91db983b98cadd364c67a7e66a7189e2a83a
index: 0
value: 0.01 BTC
spent in transaction: 42c613761c40573ccf791a8b14701d422dc7067e8af4f82dc97320b831cae451

hash e6fce6d20687b3b91d8fa0a7b018b4ae9343a9efff651c236811d6b8753c257c
index 1
value: (unknown)
This input no longer exists.  Most likely the inputs that were used to create it were spent elsewhere.

---

Transaction: 2441be5fe3e409378464073a13e067a03638f233bebbbbcd6d9cb920af7cdfb7

Has the following inputs:

hash: 114d3f8ea796a60151fbace5c05722b56abdb5275db48352580ff3e4ab145853
index: 0
value: 0.01 BTC
spent in transaction: 42c613761c40573ccf791a8b14701d422dc7067e8af4f82dc97320b831cae451

hash: 1c688e797f1ad254203c14f285729904fefbf5d17e2bfb953c6accc994ab2660
index: 1
value: (unknown)
This input no longer exists.  Most likely the inputs that were used to create it were spent elsewhere.

---

Transaction: 262471008702b7add704e2ef3a12bd04501dbfa53cea625d7f60b9c4a27418ad

Has the following inputs:

hash: 25e0b0742c8ecb4abbe1ff519db88fc2421784d6ea24a7ab66b3c1d074dded03
index: 1
value: 0.01 BTC
spent in transaction: 42c613761c40573ccf791a8b14701d422dc7067e8af4f82dc97320b831cae451

hash: ab898df32e1939eebd68047883569968f7667bcd3f200e148d9ed6a0a03368cb
index: 0
value: 0.01 BTC
spent in transaction: 42c613761c40573ccf791a8b14701d422dc7067e8af4f82dc97320b831cae451

hash: f7e17d21768732e458696d36c1b465d8e851326bda16b2d6a826882f48d85cb3
index: 1
value: 0.0014 BTC
spent in transaction: 85078c562350d209c429e0ede612c332b68ec86147d780986e64e630b2604a5f

hash: cbba55cee8e2222cbd787ea3ee00622576bbcfa000764ef3e526d653bd5c485f
index: 0
value: 0.01 BTC
spent in transaction: 42c613761c40573ccf791a8b14701d422dc7067e8af4f82dc97320b831cae451

Ok thanks a lot; I guess that is a reason why you wait at least for one confirmation before being sure that you got the money

I have several transactions in my local wallet that seem to never confirm. They are all transactions that I sent coins. Is there anyway to cancel them and re-send them without losing the coins?

Do you have a recent backup of your wallet from before you sent the transactions?

If not, you can use pywallet.

You want to rebroadcast the transactions? Or, you want to create a new one to double spend the transaction?
Also, you need to tell us which wallet are you using.

Is there a way not to see those unconfirmed transactions anymore on bitcoin-qt, they are first in the list so it is pretty unconvenient

What version of Bitcoin-Qt are you running?

Your transaction is full of dust inputs (all around 15,000 sats or less) and your fee is too small to use the ViaBTC accelerator... only 6 sats/byte...

Even a "Child Pays For Parent" is pretty much useless to you... your total transaction size for both transactions would be a MINIMUM of 1849 bytes... so even if you controlled the address 33Cvp5Jh1CMGk7kUuffJr17idsBxfstDme and used ALL of it as transaction fees, your average fee would only work out to around 100 sats/byte... which probably wouldn't even guarantee a confirmation :-\

You will probably just have to wait for the transaction to drop from the network and send again with at least a 10 sat/byte fee and try and use the ViaBTC accelerator to push your transaction through.

In the future, I suggest you stop collecting so many dust inputs... anything less than 0.001 will end up costing almost as much in fees as the input is worth. :-\

as per me when someone send me payment with low transaction i send it again to someone with high fee so both transactions will be confirmed.

All you can do is hope that a miner takes pity on your transaction and includes it.  Or, you can offline your wallet, delete the transaction, wait until the rest of the network has forgotten it, then pop back up and use the rawtransaction API to redeem that input (with some others) back to your wallet.

When you send the bitcoins from an exchange, you dont have the key to double spend it, is that correct?

1.For me bitcoin is crap because i got several +18 hours transactions (large and small).
  I mostly use exchanges since i could not download the hole blockchain
2.(i gave up after 10 days trying to sync the Bitcoinclient. i achieved only 46% with a 50mbit highspeed ISP !)
3. the fees are too damn high like overpriced fiat bank services
4. even if problem 1 would not exist its still damn slow in nature. But with with that fee-issue which exists since 2013 or longer
Bitcoin is a fail for me for these 4 reasons.

when several months of your sallary in BTC "hang in the air" for unknown time to come ,
you feel like you are forced into a high stakes roulette you cant afford
(since bitcoin price is very volatile you can loose up to 33% of worth)

there are 2 option either the programmers start to think about the average joe who just wnat to recieve and send without breaking their head
about the fee formula and double spending for confirmation

or

Bitcoin will be replaced by Altcoins (they have already 50% market share)

for me i prefer option 2 since i think having a choice is much better than a semi monopol like its today.

You do not need to run a full node in order to use bitcoin. There are light wallets that you can use that basically have all the functions and the security that you need. The long transaction confirmation and high fees goes hand in hand and should be solved by segwit or whatever solution the core devs are proposing but the miners are taking their sweet time in electing it. Bitcoin is not perfect but I do not think there is an altcoin out there ready to replace bitcoin, YET.

how can i run a half node?
i did not find any option for that in the client.

look what a damn mess it is, how many transaction got stuck on a regular basis:
https://bitcoinfees.21.co/
if the miners take their time to agree in 3 years bitcoin will be loose its superiority in market share.
For example if BTC share drop to 30% of the 50% we have now, it will be dead soon.
There are many better Altcoins in technical terms and usability and if BTC loose its only one selling argument it will vanish.

I can speed up unconfirmed Bitcoin transaction!
Write me here or to PM