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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: Casanova18 on April 17, 2017, 06:40:39 PM



Title: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Casanova18 on April 17, 2017, 06:40:39 PM
China, in 1994, purchased from Ukraine, a new icebreaker built by Kherson shipyard. The ship named "Snow dragon" and regularly goes to the Arctic expedition.
In December 2016 at a Chinese shipyard was laid a new icebreaker, designed by Finnish (Finland builds more than half of modern icebreakers in the entire planet). He will take part in Arctic expeditions in 2019, and will be the first in the world who can break through ice thickness of 1.5 meters in her bow and stern.
The press service of the Academy of military Sciences of the people's liberation army of China announced in April 2013 that China plans to build nuclear-powered icebreakers, and in early August 2016, it was announced that his development has already begun. Construction will take about two years. Now, the nuclear icebreakers are only in Russian, with the commissioning of a Chinese nuclear-powered icebreaker Moscow will lose this monopoly.
China has opened the Svalbard research station (calling it "yellow river", the name of the main river-the symbol of China), created "the polar research Institute of China" and received the observer status in the Arctic Council. In the North of Russia China invests in the project Yamal LNG and in other oil and gas projects. Military preparations in the melting ice had gone on increasing. Although the first, in 2007, realized what was happening and began to action Canada.
August 8, 2007, a few days after the publication of data on the record reduction in ice cover, the Prime Minister of Canada went to a 3 day trip across the Arctic regions of the country. The tour coincided with the large-scale exercises of the canadian forces in the North. Thus, Canada immediately announced that it was ready to defend its territory and by force of arms. In 2007, Canada has conducted four military exercises in the Arctic region with the participation of all units of the armed forces. Began construction of the first military facilities — a training center and a deepwater port for the armed forces. Immediately commenced patrolling the most remote Arctic territories of the special forces with a total of 1,500 soldiers, mostly from the Eskimos. Now the indigenous people of the North – the Eskimos (Inuit as they are called in Canada) is actively involved in the service of the canadian Rangers. In 2012-2014, Canada increased the number of regularly patrolling the region units to 5-7 thousand people.
In 2008, launched a military satellite system "RADARSAT-2", which monitors what is happening in the Arctic. Since 2008, Canada has begun to conduct in the Arctic, regular exercises. Since August 2010 the annual Arctic exercises by the canadian armed forces are held with the participation of the naval forces of the United States and Denmark. Canada has adopted a program of modernization of its fleet with funding of $ 33 billion and an explicit Arctic slope construction of warships. In the same 2007, the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, science and transportation approved a bill to allocate $ 8 billion the United States coast guard, which is mandated to explore the Arctic and assert the claims of the country on the wealth of the region. Since 2009, in the American Arctic are regularly held military exercises.
In 2009, Norway moved its operational command of the southern region of the country in the circumpolar region and adopted a plan of modernization of its strike aircraft.
Denmark announced a strategic priority for the formation of the Arctic division of his troops. In 2009 was created a separate Armed forces of Greenland, owned by Denmark's autonomy. 31 Oct 2012 it was formed Arctic command by combining the Island command Greenland with the command of the Faroe Islands (another Danish remote Arctic autonomy).
In 2010, Norway proposed the idea of creating a defensive Alliance of five States – Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Finland and Sweden to strengthen their military positions in the Arctic. This initiative has received in the media called a "mini-NATO". It was supported by the UK. In January 2011, London hosted a Nordic summit to discuss the prospects posed by regional organizations. It was attended by the representatives of great Britain, Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, and, especially significant, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. This opens up the possibility that all the Western countries of the Baltic sea will unite in the fight for the Arctic Ocean. Since 2006, Estonia and Latvia participate in regularly conducted in the polar regions of Norway and Sweden the exercise Cold Response. In total, they involved forces of 16 countries: Norway, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Germany, France, Ireland, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, UK and USA.
The participation of Switzerland is particularly noteworthy. It shows the level of attention to what is happening in the Arctic, the willingness of the world's leading players to join the struggle for the redivision of the status quo.
List the military and diplomatic preparations in different countries can be very long, the news about this are coming every day. Russia was involved in a race war for the Arctic later. But very actively. And now it belongs to her superiority in terms of increasing military activity. For example, Russia has in the Arctic with a fleet of forty-breakers, including six nuclear.
In America, only two diesel-powered icebreaker, both old, and only one of them able to cut through thick ice. May 24, 2016, the U.S. Senate Committee on appropriations has allocated $ 1 billion to build a new heavy icebreaker, the first for twenty years. The icebreaker will be modern and very expensive. For comparison, the budget for the construction of a new ultra-modern Chinese icebreaker will amount to $ 153 million, and the process will take about two years. The construction of Chinese nuclear-powered icebreaker will cost 134 million euros. However, the Russian icebreaker fleet still developing ahead of us. June 10 2 years the stocks of the St. Petersburg "Admiralty shipyards" came a new icebreaker, which can simultaneously perform ice wiring warships and functions of the patrol ship. It was built just a year. Overall, it is expected or is building seven new icebreakers.
On March 12 the Ministry of defense of Russia announced the testing of "new and promising models of weapons, military and special equipment in the Arctic" during the March in 2200 miles on the ice cover of the Laptev sea. Military experienced military equipment in Arctic conditions, when the temperature dropped to minus 60 degrees. Polar war prepare all kind of troops. The Northern fleet infantry are trained to ride dogs and deer.
Russia has more Arctic bases than any other country. In 2017 Russia, as stated by the Ministry of defence, will be built in the Arctic more than 100 military installations, including airfields, radar stations and air defense military base "Arctic Shamrock" on the Franz Josef Land, it is the world's only facility under construction at 80 degrees North latitude. Recently, he was commissioned a military base of "North Clover" on the island of Kotelny in the archipelago of the Novosibirsk Islands.
The West is very concerned about the military activity of Russia in recent years trying to reduce the gap. So, in mid-March, it was reported that NATO will hold military exercises of NATO forces in the Arctic near the Norwegian border with Russia. Part 8-strong force of NATO will enter the Norwegian, American and British Marines. In news reports it is emphasized that "maneuvers designed to demonstrate to Russia NATO's ability to defend Norway from Putin's aggression."


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: PeterTheGrape on April 17, 2017, 08:14:00 PM
There is no question that if new space does not open up from other planets etc then we must start killing large numbers of people on earth  :o as governments have been doing, but at a faster pace.

It seems like the intelligent thing to do would be to spend the bulk of 'military money' on space technology, send a few people to other planets etc, and then use reduced military budgets to buy knives, cheap guns etc.

As far as China, they were late to industrialize and now have to play king of the mountain with a weakened U.S. and Russia. Worse, the one child policy from the past leaves them with an aggressive society going forward.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Lancusters on April 17, 2017, 10:39:36 PM
The battle for resources in the Arctic will be required. The warmer the climate on the earth the less snow and ice in the Arctic and the easier it will be to get there oil and gas. I think Putin had the theme to distract the Russian defeats on the political front, and maintain the image of a strong Russia.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Sithara007 on April 18, 2017, 01:42:28 AM
The battle for resources in the Arctic will be required. The warmer the climate on the earth the less snow and ice in the Arctic and the easier it will be to get there oil and gas. I think Putin had the theme to distract the Russian defeats on the political front, and maintain the image of a strong Russia.

Right now brent crude is going at $55 per barrel. When the oil is available at such low prices, who will be interested in the petroleum resources in the Arctic? It will cost almost $80 per barrel to extract a barrel of crude oil from the Arctic.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: AT-N-T101 on April 18, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
There was always a war for resources, even if they are in a cold climate. It is the natural instincts of a person who will prove to be stronger and will win.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Vishnu.Reang on April 18, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
Arctic and the Antarctic are the last remaining wild frontiers of our planet. As the population increases, people will try to occupy previously uninhabited regions such as these polar zones. Very soon the competition for resources will shift to the moon and mars.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Forester618 on April 18, 2017, 11:50:38 AM
The battle for resources in the Arctic will be required. The warmer the climate on the earth the less snow and ice in the Arctic and the easier it will be to get there oil and gas. I think Putin had the theme to distract the Russian defeats on the political front, and maintain the image of a strong Russia.

Right now brent crude is going at $55 per barrel. When the oil is available at such low prices, who will be interested in the petroleum resources in the Arctic? It will cost almost $80 per barrel to extract a barrel of crude oil from the Arctic.
It is now such calculations, but if the climate will continue to get warmer, the cost of oil production in the Arctic can be dramatically reduced. I'm not sure, but the Russians didn't have the technology to extract oil in the Arctic, but that does not mean that they will abandon their claims to the possession of the oil fields in the Arctic.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: hello_good_sir on April 18, 2017, 12:22:03 PM
The battle for resources in the Arctic will be required. The warmer the climate on the earth the less snow and ice in the Arctic and the easier it will be to get there oil and gas. I think Putin had the theme to distract the Russian defeats on the political front, and maintain the image of a strong Russia.
In fact, that might be a reason of a war in future, as you said, every year our climate is getting warmer.
There are real treasures  hidden on Arctic, there is so many different kind of resources necessary for different branches of the industry, that the country which will overcome the others, and take control on the Arctic, will have the dominant position among the others. I assume that might happen in the times, where the human exctinction will already start, in the times, where there  is a lack of supplies for further technology development, lack of water and food supply.

I hope that we will avoid this fate, however it is still possible that these times will never come, because of the nuclear war that will destroy the whole planet.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: ChineTownMan on April 18, 2017, 12:27:32 PM
Arctic and the Antarctic are the last remaining wild frontiers of our planet. As the population increases, people will try to occupy previously uninhabited regions such as these polar zones. Very soon the competition for resources will shift to the moon and mars.

Of course they will, because wherever humanity lives, all resources are already exhausted, and for the life of the next generation, it is necessary to seek and win new resources.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Yanisumin on April 18, 2017, 12:31:29 PM
Yup this is possible, Arctic has known to it's cold climate. Where you can store food and supplies without requirening artificial refrigeration ( I think they already have this kind of vault ). When big countries is at need at these kind of things I think there will be a declamation of ownership which may lead to conflicts and war.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: hamiltonik on April 18, 2017, 01:01:11 PM
Yes, perhaps there will be a third world war between the strongest states in the struggle for resources. It is necessary to divide the entire planet into pieces :)


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Mometaskers on April 18, 2017, 02:34:10 PM
OP, next time please don't smash us into a wall of text.  :P

Back to topic, the ever increasing warm climate is making the Arctic much more navigable than in previous centuries. The littoral states would definitely arm twist each other for control of new routes that would be opening up. Russia in particular would welcome a warmer Arctic, considering it's lack of good seaports (hence the need for Crimea).

As for China they don't have a border near the Arctic so they really don't have any legitimate claim for resources there so we probably wouldn't expect them to be as aggressive as they are in the East and South China Seas. They do have an interest in the routes though since the more trade routes you can access, the better. Being able to buy Arctic oil is also favorable to them since there are less choke points to go through shipping it to China, compared to those bought from the Middle East.

Arctic and the Antarctic are the last remaining wild frontiers of our planet. As the population increases, people will try to occupy previously uninhabited regions such as these polar zones. Very soon the competition for resources will shift to the moon and mars.

Of course they will, because wherever humanity lives, all resources are already exhausted, and for the life of the next generation, it is necessary to seek and win new resources.

No wonder some compare humanity to a virus. No, not even our own solar system would be enough for us.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: gentlemand on April 18, 2017, 03:36:11 PM
Arctic and the Antarctic are the last remaining wild frontiers of our planet. As the population increases, people will try to occupy previously uninhabited regions such as these polar zones. Very soon the competition for resources will shift to the moon and mars.

I dunno about resources, we seem to be doing pretty good on that, but this lack of space thing befuddles me a little.

Take a drive around the USA. Most of it is completely empty. The UK has ten times the population density yet I can stroll out my door and not see a sign of human activity for multiple hours.

The more developed the world becomes the lower the population growth until eventually it levels off then falls. We'll probably peak within the next 50-100 years and then start working our way down again.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: DocGTR on April 18, 2017, 04:12:42 PM
The struggle for resources in the Arctic has been going on for a long time and could turn into a global war. If the climate becomes warmer, then more ice will melt and the struggle for this place will be even stronger.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: bryant.coleman on April 18, 2017, 04:46:08 PM
Arctic and the Antarctic are the last remaining wild frontiers of our planet. As the population increases, people will try to occupy previously uninhabited regions such as these polar zones. Very soon the competition for resources will shift to the moon and mars.

I dunno about resources, we seem to be doing pretty good on that, but this lack of space thing befuddles me a little.

Take a drive around the USA. Most of it is completely empty. The UK has ten times the population density yet I can stroll out my door and not see a sign of human activity for multiple hours.

The more developed the world becomes the lower the population growth until eventually it levels off then falls. We'll probably peak within the next 50-100 years and then start working our way down again.


The human population will continue to grow for at least the next 100 years, driven by increases from Africa and the Muslim world. Whatever reduction is achieved in regions such as North America and Europe will be neutralized by the population explosion from the Sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East. By then, the world population will be around 13 billion. Hardly any forest will be left, and the majority of the population will be living in slums.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Okurkabinladin on April 18, 2017, 04:59:58 PM
Yup this is possible, Arctic has known to it's cold climate. Where you can store food and supplies without requirening artificial refrigeration ( I think they already have this kind of vault ). When big countries is at need at these kind of things I think there will be a declamation of ownership which may lead to conflicts and war.

Or you can just dig a big hole under your house and store supplies there. People used to call it a "cellar". Arctic as a storage facility is preposterous, as the resources needed for back and forth transport are and are going to be enormous.

The climate sure is getting warmer little by little, but that doesnt mean more ground for agriculture either. Like in Siberia or northern Canada, majority of Arctic land is made up of permaculture that will just turn into frigid swamp once ice is gone. Nothing but simplest plants and insects will live there then.

On the other hand, old ice is home to some long forgotten viruses and microbes, some of which resemble nothing else on Earth. Just check the various underground lakes, that has been isolated from outside world for thousands of years. Could be interesting. For better or worse.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Lacander on April 18, 2017, 06:26:54 PM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: PeterTheGrape on April 18, 2017, 07:02:24 PM
Arctic and the Antarctic are the last remaining wild frontiers of our planet. As the population increases, people will try to occupy previously uninhabited regions such as these polar zones. Very soon the competition for resources will shift to the moon and mars.

I dunno about resources, we seem to be doing pretty good on that, but this lack of space thing befuddles me a little.

Take a drive around the USA. Most of it is completely empty. The UK has ten times the population density yet I can stroll out my door and not see a sign of human activity for multiple hours.

The more developed the world becomes the lower the population growth until eventually it levels off then falls. We'll probably peak within the next 50-100 years and then start working our way down again.


As with more and more people, you do not understand the concept of frontier. The universe is not an apartment complex.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Lancusters on April 18, 2017, 11:29:04 PM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: ImHash on April 18, 2017, 11:53:10 PM
If you don't know this already then let me tell you, there are already 3 times more water inside the earth flowing in lava and there are already 10 times of whatever we have of resources on the surface in side the earth again in lava, we already have the technology to build artificial islands in the sea and will soon do it in oceans, but I guess as long as you think about only about living in this world then as science has already proved, earth will be completely gone in the next 2 billion years and probably much sooner than that.

Btw, you can't go in north or south poles as military forces will stop you, and there are already some rumors about Nazis having an under ground base in Antarctica so I don't know what to believe really :D 


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Sithara007 on April 19, 2017, 01:29:02 AM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.

I think that there is a ban on extracting natural resources from the Antarctic. We should have a similar ban or moratorium in the Arctic (perhaps supported by the UN), to preserve the delicate ecosystem there.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Dem-artini on April 19, 2017, 11:49:27 AM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.

Perhaps there is a secret world government underground and they will not allow anyone to conquer and destroy this piece of the planet.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Alexzap on April 19, 2017, 01:07:49 PM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.

I think that there is a ban on extracting natural resources from the Antarctic. We should have a similar ban or moratorium in the Arctic (perhaps supported by the UN), to preserve the delicate ecosystem there.
Let's see what is happening in the world. Now crumble all the international agreements and can not trust anyone. I don't think such a Treaty will be respected. The UN has long been shown to be ineffective in resolving international conflicts and not be able to guarantee compliance with the Treaty.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: hello_good_sir on April 19, 2017, 04:09:47 PM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.

I think that there is a ban on extracting natural resources from the Antarctic. We should have a similar ban or moratorium in the Arctic (perhaps supported by the UN), to preserve the delicate ecosystem there.
Indeed, extracting any natural resources from the Antarctic is forbidden, but I dont really think that any of the richest countries, and from those who are military strong will care about that ban.
It will be some kind of a race, race for domination on the Earth. If any country would be able to overcome the others, and have possibility to constantly exploit the Antarctic, it would have gotten such a advantage among the rest, that It would be even harder to fight against such a monstrum.

All this is science-ficition obviously, because nothing like that is going to happen in our times, I would predict that it may occur in next 50 years, when ice will molt.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: bryant.coleman on April 19, 2017, 04:54:57 PM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.

I think that there is a ban on extracting natural resources from the Antarctic. We should have a similar ban or moratorium in the Arctic (perhaps supported by the UN), to preserve the delicate ecosystem there.
Let's see what is happening in the world. Now crumble all the international agreements and can not trust anyone. I don't think such a Treaty will be respected. The UN has long been shown to be ineffective in resolving international conflicts and not be able to guarantee compliance with the Treaty.

It is similar to the ban on whaling. Officially, it is illegal to hunt all types of whales. But countries such as Japan and Iceland have found loopholes in this regulation, and they are now openly hunting whales. The Japs term their whale hunting as research oriented, but they sell the whale meat (including that from the endangered blue whale) in the Japanese supermarkets.   


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Lieldoryn on April 19, 2017, 09:47:10 PM
Russia has long been active in the Arctic and wants to get power over this land there. But I think the decision will last for several years and there will be no war. Well, at least because it's too cold and not very comfortable to fight. In addition, attention is now exacerbated by other problems.
In the land and natural resources are interested in many countries. When the number of applicants always have disputes. The world situation is so tense that it may well start a war. As for the cold it is hard for everyone, everyone will be in a difficult position. So chances will be equal.

I think that there is a ban on extracting natural resources from the Antarctic. We should have a similar ban or moratorium in the Arctic (perhaps supported by the UN), to preserve the delicate ecosystem there.
Let's see what is happening in the world. Now crumble all the international agreements and can not trust anyone. I don't think such a Treaty will be respected. The UN has long been shown to be ineffective in resolving international conflicts and not be able to guarantee compliance with the Treaty.

It is similar to the ban on whaling. Officially, it is illegal to hunt all types of whales. But countries such as Japan and Iceland have found loopholes in this regulation, and they are now openly hunting whales. The Japs term their whale hunting as research oriented, but they sell the whale meat (including that from the endangered blue whale) in the Japanese supermarkets.   
I saw on TV how the Japanese kill whales and dolphins. It was awful. It seems to me that there should be international inspectors who will monitor and seize vessels. You can even trade sanctions against Japan to enter if they do not stop hunting whales and dolphins.


Title: Re: In the Arctic a possible war?
Post by: Sithara007 on April 20, 2017, 01:31:18 AM
I saw on TV how the Japanese kill whales and dolphins. It was awful. It seems to me that there should be international inspectors who will monitor and seize vessels. You can even trade sanctions against Japan to enter if they do not stop hunting whales and dolphins.

It is not just the Japanese. If I am correct, then the Icelanders, Faroe Islanders and the Norwegians also hunt whales (not sure about the dolphins). In addition to that some of the aboriginal communities in Russia, Alaska, and the island of Bequia also hunt whales.