Bitcoin Forum

Hello all,

I'm pleased to announce the latest Madhatter site!

Bitcoin 2 Credit Card (http://www.bitcoin2cc.com/)

This site will enable anyone to sell me their Bitcoins for a virtual credit card.

Best of all: it is 100% automated. :D

Please use this thread to post suggestions, comments, and other 'beefs' with the service.

Enjoy!
The Madhatter

GREAT! A complementary service to chaord's credit card to bitcoin service!

Very nice.  This definitely fills a needed niche.

Now people may keep their money stored as bitcoins, yet still access the "legacy currencies" through VISA.  :)

It will be better still once we can reload existing prepaid cards.

I'm working on that. ;)

really good job, easy way to get money out.  Better than paypal(sucks).

Thanks for all of the positive feedback guys! :)

Bitcoin2CC just did its first real trade!

It's allivveee!! :P

Hello all,

I just increased the inventory and lowered the price. I'm running this service almost at cost to get it going. I'll likely raise the prices once I get some trade velocity happening. Get your cards while the pickin' is good! :P

Cheers!
The Madhatter

Kudos to you for this. Two quick questions:
- Where are these issued, or more specifically, what charges will there be for using them outside the US$ realm, other than the exchange rate itself?
- What do we do to use the full credit, if for example I have $13 left and I want to buy a $14 piece of gum?

Hello,

Those are good questions. I'll likely add them to my FAQ.

I am the issuer. The banks I use are in Canada. Not to knock the USA or anything, but I think that having your funds outside of the USA is a good thing. Look to e-gold, Liberty Dollar, and GoldAge as examples.

The banks typically charge a 2% spread on foreign exchange. Visa takes some, the bank takes some. This is typical of all credit cards.

That's expensive gum. :P You'd have to buy something for $13 or less or make smaller purchase until the balance is depleted.

The best deal is on the $100 VISA, currently. I am keeping the price artificially low on that one on purpose to pick up some Bitcoins for B4C. This is a limited time offer -- so act fast. (end of sales pitch).

Cheers!
The Madhatter

Oh crap... thanks for pointing that out. They are Canadian Dollars.

More stuff to add to the FAQ! :)

/me quickly edits the FAQ

Changed:

Just did the #5th sale. I keep reloading #s and they keep selling. Ahh!

I'll consider the code debugged now. :)

*adds amazon.ca .

Now if you use the cards to shop at Amazon in Canada  you can get a bitcoin rebate.

I call it the MadHatter's special  :D

http://www.bitcointo.com/2010/11/madhatters-special-bitcoins-back-at.html (http://www.bitcointo.com/2010/11/madhatters-special-bitcoins-back-at.html)

So, I could use these CCs to buy from Canadian websites and avoid the currency conversion?

Yes you can. Maybe if we all gang up on madhatter he will sell US ones too  :D

Or someone with a desire to buy mass coin at a discount to the market rate (which is what Madhatter is doing) could offer Madhatter some coin to help him set up a similar website for the US.  It requires some US$ backing though.

I think I may be able to set one up for us US ppl. I'm thinking I'd provide an actual card, though. I could email the numbers almost instantly, then send the card in the mail.

Hahahaha! :P

I'll call my banks in the morning and see if they can do US$ card numbers for me. No promises.

I can do that for Australians. I can buy them at the post office . :D

Hey.. wait a second!!!

What if we cloned this site for Australia and the USA?

We don't need to compete. Personally, I see this as a public service. The more of these systems we have in place, the better.

What do you guys think?

Sounds good to me.  

I don't currently see an easy way to get $ out to pay for the inventory I need in my offline service business. Unless someone is able to start selling me Virgin and/or Used Motor Oil for BTC. So, I'd rather not compete with you or anyone to provide financial services. I'm more of a work-with-my hands kind of guy. I make and fix things. I do web design but I got bored with it a long time ago.

I'm trying to think of hard goods to sell. I just know that it would be easy to go out and buy prepaid Visa cards, set up a Joomla/VirtueMart site, and mail off the cards to who ever buys them.

Im game.The beauty of it is we dont have to post cash to Canada   :)

The only difference is the cards cost $5.95 from the post office. The price you pay for anonymity?  :D

I have a site we could use. Well its a bare joomla install I havent figured out what to do with. See http://bitcoin.me (http://bitcoin.me) Mike Gogulski has already created a virtuemart plugin for bitcoin http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1841.0 (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1841.0) so we could use it and help him test it out on a live site. Im not a web designer.  :D


The other thing I can get fairly easily are itunes cards. I imagine you can get them from supermarkets anywhere in the world. I can also do coles gift cards which are the largest supermarket chain in Australia...

Okay, great.

The current system is a very very small set of PHP scripts with a MySQL backend. You guys will either have to setup some hosting (I'm currently using a VPS at link2voip, and a privacyshark domain.. lol.. all paid for with BTC) and a domain name or you'll have to trust me to host it for you. Either way the desired effect is virtually the same. (Probably best if you hosted it.. distributed, distributed, distributed... lol)

We should cross-promote the sites too. "For USD Cards click here" or something like that. Perhaps just a pulldown menu with currencies and a "take me there" button.

The site is tied in with mybitcoin and I have the mybitcoin account setup to just bounce the coins to my main wallet here. So each of you will need a mybitcoin account with a similar setup. I can set this up for you and let you login and change the password to lock me out of it.

I spent an entire day coding this system so I'd like to be compensated for my time in building the initial system -- payable in Bitcoins of course. My compensation was supposed to eventually be made from the commissions on the cards. A dream that won't be realized if the market is about to fragment. I also understand that fragmenting this is a very good thing for the community.

After compensation/setup it's basically a free for all. You can redistribute the software to your heart's content. Also I will provide all of the support required to install and setup the software and get each of you up and running independently. You are likely to run into different snags getting setup and I promise to iron them all out. :)

Do we have an accord?

Yeah, I donated 100 to MikeG when he finished the Joomla mod. He has a Drupal mod, too. I keep up with him on FB. He mentioned on FB that he sold some Zimbabwe cash and that's what made me come back to the forums here. I've done a few Joomla sites. I used it for our clothing store in California. It was a great platform until my partner spent all of the operating cash on personal expenses.

I'll keep an eye on what you guys decide to do and help out however I can.

Where is the best place to read about this fragmentation and it's effects? I'm not 100% up to speed yet.

Fragment? Oh, I was talking about the Bitcoin to virtual credit card market. :P

Okay, we should probably talk via PM and get this stuff rolling.

Agreed. I have some hosting already...most likely the virtual card code  will be on a subdomain at http://you.bitcoin.me     :D

Lets set it up.

He probably means you dont want to combine the two things...gift cards and visa cards.

They are both similar but different things.

Okay, email me your server details and I'll get something installed.

I've been reading about possible parallel Bitcoin networks. I thought you knew something about it that I didn't.

Either way, like I said, I'm not quite ready to get into this market so your US business is safe for now. I don't have $$ laying around that I can tie up in BTC since I have another business to run and I just got hit with a massive tax bill from California. I'll keep an eye on how things work out for you two, though.

They really screw you to the wall dont they? I was thinking a simple webshop where people could exchange any gift cards for bitcoins wouldn't rely on having stock at all untill people placed an order. I dont think there are enough bitcoin users to automate things at this moment.
http://www.card9.com/giftcard-api.asp
 (http://www.card9.com/giftcard-api.asp)  This site lets you create your own gift cards. This would allow any merchant who sells products for bitcoins to create their own gift cards that people can redeem on their site.


I sent you a pm madhatter.

Lol!

Card9 is funny. The cards are not backed by Visa or Mastercard so they're useless in my opinion. It's basically a loyalty card program.

I have a meeting at my bank later today to see if I can get US$ Visa numbers.

Thats why they call them gift cards and not credit cards. :P

Your bank letting you sell visa cards is a momentous thing by itself. Who did you have to speak to for that?

A friend of mine is a large commercial banking customer. I was able to persuade him to use his leverage and his bank accounts. It's all about who you know. :)

Sure, I could have used gift cards but the prices for them are way too high. It's really the difference between paying retail and paying wholesale.

Anyway... I digress... lol

Fair enough. Whatever you're doing...keep doing it.  :)

If you still need a US partner, I'm interested.

Okay, I'll add you to my list. :)

I want to wait until I see if I can get US$ numbers or not first.

@madhatter:
Do your cards work on Amazon.co.uk ?

Yes, as far as I know.

The only thing I'm not sure is if they work with PayPal or not. ???

Great, then I will use your service to get some UK import games now hrhr  8)

@Madhatter

this is a great breakthrough! chapeau!

one question.. what do you do with all the bitcoins go are getting?

Are these 50 USD oder 50 CAD ?

And are there sites that provide GBP ?

I hoard them until Bitcoin fails! Bwhahaha! j/k :P

I sell them on Bitcoin 4 Cash (http://www.bitcoin4cash.com/).

Check the FAQ on the site. It'll answer all of your questions.

Cheers! :)

great! you are a true BTC economist  (I mean this positive!) thanks

That's why the question came up to me.


Does that mean, I pay 50 USD and get 50,525 CAD or do I pay 50 CAD and get 50 CAD ?

EDIT: forget it ;P

The cards are priced internally as CAD$ then converted to BTC.

So, to answer your question you are technically paying CAD to get CAD. :)

Hey guys,

Just an update. After talking to the banks in great detail (Yes, they're open. We already had our Thanksgiving up here. We can't wait for turkey. :P) I came to the following conclusions:

If I sell reloadable cards or sell US$ cards I have to collect everyone's identification, keep it on file, and submit it to Visa. There are also a pile of other KYC regulations I'd have to comply with once I even touch US$. If I touch US$ I have to comply with US laws by proxy. The USA has a lot more laws regarding this sort of stuff than Canada does.

Now for some good news:

1. I just refilled the card inventory again. I was running low -- again. :P

2. I am now able to load cards up to $500 instead of $100. I am in the process of getting $250 and $500 cards. The higher priced cards make the fees a lot easier to swallow. I might discontinue the $25 card in the near future for this reason. Thoughts?

3. I am under a pile of paperwork right now to get setup as a high volume reseller. Once this happens my costs will go way down and I'll pass the savings onto the customer. I'll likely just match the retail price.

Cheers!
The Madhatter

Stupid laws are stupid. They are only there to protect the existing businesses from competition.
Its funny that they fought a war to get rid of a ruler then voluntarily created their own emporer.(the federal gov.)  :D


I bet its easier to get prepaid visa cards denominated in rubles than in US dollars!

Yeah, it's hilarious!  BTW, Canada never bothered to get rid of their first emperor.

@noagendamarket: I completely agree.

Canada's emperor is Sandy McTire. He's my hero. :P

Her son wants to be reincarnated as a tampon. :D

Might be better having one mad ruler than 500 power hungry freaks. At least they know they can never get the top job lol

I just received an email from a guy who moved Bitcoins into Bitcoin2CC and used the card number to top up his prepaid cell phone. He told me it worked brilliantly. I like positive feedback! :)

Oh crap.. I'm running low on card numbers again.. eek!

Wait!  Does anyone know if Virgin Mobile accepts Canadian Dollars?

From my understanding, that wouldn't much of a change from his lifestyle now.

We have Virgin Mobile (http://www.virginmobile.ca/) in Canada.

Maybe you can give them a call and see? Hmm...

I wouldn't abandon the small value cards if I were you. Make them proportionally more expensive if that's the case, but leave the option for those who are not very comfortable with putting a lot of money in a prepaid credit card, like people who fear being stolen, or who still don't trust your business well enough...

Just bought a $100  virtual card.   The process was quick and easy.


I'm looking forward to buy some stuffs with that.  I hope it will work fine.


Thanks again Madhatter !

Dear Madhatter,
Your service is the best!
I received virtual Visa $100, but I don't want to register on the site. I just tryed to transfer all balance to my Liqpay account but I forget that because of the security measures Liqpay demand that cardholder's cell phone is from the same country as the card is.So I can only use it for online purchases. But if you can help me to transfer all or part of balance of my virtual Visa using yours or someone else mobile from Canada I would be happy! If you decide to help me in this matter PM me and I will securely email you my CC info and my cell phone I use for Liqpay .

Do you need to register the card first?

Just one question : what's your business model ? As I understand it, you are currently spending dollars and receiving bitcoins. How would you make the reverse operation ?

Okay. Thanks for your valued input. :)

Well, thank you. :) That comment made my day! :)

You should be able to register the card to your country by using an address in your area. Or, you can optionally use a VoIP phone number in Canada. Some of them can do SMS now. (I don't know if you need SMS to make it Liqpay work; I've never used it before.)

https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1895.msg24165#msg24165 (https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1895.msg24165#msg24165)

No. The virtual card numbers work right "out of the box". Bitcoin2CC activates them upon purchase automatically.

Registration is only useful when you are making purchases online from stores that do address verification.

I finally managed to pay for my Vim and Debian T-shirts on freewear.org.

I had to create a paypal account though  :(

But I very much prefer giving Paypal a virtual card, rather than my "hard" card number.

Seriously what you've done is great, Madhatter.  You might have a serious business model and financial activity, there.

In conjonction with your bitcoin4cash service, this just kicks ass !

Do you have any idea if this could be done in Europe, too ?


If you need a financial partner to make similar services in euros and in Europe, let me know.  If you need investors to help you get some funds, let me know as well.


Also, could you explain this ?  (it's from your FAQ)

    <<
    How do I check the balance of my card? / How do I activate the
    card? / How do I set the name/address on the card for online/telephone
    use?

    Due to the fact that we use more than one bank these details are revealed
    after your purchase has been made.
    >>

For instance I've just bought for about CAD$70 of T-shirts.  Now I should have about CAD$30 left on my balance.

I'd like to make sure of this in order to sell the remaining amount against bitcoins.

Edit.

OMG this is so cool !   I've managed to credit my shareholding account of EUR20 (a little less than CAD$30) directly using this.

This is great.  I guess now my balance is about EUR2.2.  What would happen if I try to transfer 10 ?  I guess the paiement would just be refused, right ?


Edit again.  Ok I get it !  I can check the balance here :  www.mybalance.ca

OMG this is really a great stuff !  Damned it Canada is quite a liberal country !!

Nice to know the cards work on PayPal. I swore them as my mortal enemy years ago, so I didn't test it.


I do trades in both directions now; each and every day. :)


It's possible. However, I don't have any connections there.


... Ask and ye shall receive. Send me an email. :)


Yup. Spend until the # no longer works and discard. If you need more credit, you just purchase a new number.

Now if only I could keep up with demand better. I'm selling them as fast as I refill them. I'm only getting card numbers in small quantities because I still consider the service to be in 'beta'.

Cheers! :)

Done.  Basically I'm just offering to provide euros and bitcoins in order to add EUR/BTC exchange to your website.

Possible to get a custom amount done as I need 25.81 USD on a Visa card and I don't want to pay for 50 USD.

I don't know if this helps or not...  but whenever I have excess value left on a pre-paid Visa card...  I simply pay my phone bill with the remaining balance.   It's a bill that I will always have to pay anyway... and they will accept a payment in any amount.

No, sorry.

I've just received my Vim and Debian T-shirts that I bought thanks to this service.

This is very cool  :)

I wish there were a way to get a Visa card that automatically refills it's value from Bitcoin.  :)

Are there refillable Visa gift cards? It would be so amazing.

If Mtgox or someone implemented this and it had low fees I would convert most of my cash savings and just spend off of there as needed.

Nope. Gift cards will never be refillable.

Refillable cards require the seller to comply with KYC regulations. (Take ID, your blood, your house, we want it all... we want your soul! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH10WJxXbcQ).. damn that song is still in my head! Haha!)


Tell Jed to integrate Paxum and Payoneer already. Jeeze! ;)

What's Paxum and Payuneer??

Western Union on Broadway near Times Square sells refillable MasterCard / Visa cards. 

They are definitely refillable.  They definately ask for a name and social security number.  I think they might ask for ID too. 

There are charges imposed for every time you "refill" the card. 

Honestly, I don't know what the difference is... between one of those cards and a checking account + Visa debit card.

I wonder if one of those cards can be purchased by party A, and subsequently refilled by party B...?

OK.  I googled paxum and payoneer.

The third listing on Google is YOUR posting here on this forum:  http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2036.0;wap2

So....  What's the rest of the story?   What's the catch?   Why aren't you already doing Paxum?   Why isn't MtGox or MyBitcoin already doing Paxum?

Is there some other legal / compliance issue(s) involved?
If not, why aren't we all carrying a Paxum MasterCard in our wallet right now!?

I'm very excited about this service! I first found out about it via your Tor site. A list of stores where these can be used without verifying name, address, etc. would be very useful.

See http://bitcoinshop.com

Uh huh. I had also emailed Jed in private suggesting that he offer that option a while ago. His response was to open this thread (https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2052.0).


There isn't a story. I won't do Paxum/Payoneer because of the KYC requirements involved in dealing it. I suggested that Jed (owner of Mtgox) offer it as a convenient 'cash out' option.


Yes. KYC requirements, all participants must show ID, and I'd need to actually have a bank account and corporation to run such a service. I am unwilling to comply with all of the above for various reasons. That's about as specific as I care to get.

As it stands, I'll continue to run Bitcoin2CC (http://www.bitcoin2cc.com/) exactly the same way it is running right now. I can offer instant one-time VISA #s that are anonymous.

Someone also mentioned that you can buy the #s from me via a Tor .onion address. Yes, this is true. :)

I was referring to merchants that accept virtual credit cards without verifying name address, etc, but this list is useful, too! Thanks!

Good Luck finding that.....

You can register the cards with any info you like. Just tell the merchant the same story.

My name is John Doe, I live at 123 happy lane

Happy lane? Sounds dreamy...  ;D

Hello all,

I'm pleased to announce the availability of U.S. Dollar denominated virtual Visa cards on Bitcoin2CC (http://www.bitcoin2cc.com/)! :D

(There is currently 1 card left in inventory. More cards will be added tomorrow morning.)

Cheers!

Poof! And... it's... gone!

Try again tomorrow! :)

Hey MadHatter!

How often do you refill the stock? I'm itching to get some visa cards :)

Same here. I want to test your service out!

I really think that at least some of the cards should be sold on an auction based system.

That's one good thing about markets: it can handle shortages.  I mean, when there are few resources, prices have to rise.  This allows to ration the ressource, and allocate it to people who need/want it the most.

At least, prices should increase when stock decreases.  Thus anybody could buy at any time, providing that he is willing to overpay.

I have a 200 USD card I bought from bitcoin2cc a while ago which I'm willing to sell...
I've had it on the bitcoin-otc, but there was no interest there.

I'll sell to the highest bidder, let's start at 220 bitcoins. (I have not registered the card).

Any chance of a "waiting list" or even a notification system for when new cards are available? Looks like a great service.

There is also https://www.bitcoincashout.com/

Do they work in south america?

That would be magical.

hi.. i am very very noob.. i have no credit card, no paypal, no bank account and dont live in US or EU.. still can i use this cards? if not what should i do? and is this same as a credit card to shop in internet ?
thanks