Bitcoin Forum

What happened:
1. Started gambling at paradice.io to try and get the promotion they have. ^[1]
2. Then I was winning so I was able to withdraw my original 0.01BTC^[2] deposit and played with only the winnings of 0.005BTC. I was able to get it to 0.015BTC and withdrew the 0.005BTC^[3]. Was also fruastrated that they placed a super low fee of only 32sat/byte, hence this will take a long ass time.
3. Then I continued my autobet and just occasionally checked it. Saw the balance dropped from 0.01BTC to 0.005BTC. I said to myself, ok maybe it was just unlucky.
4. Then I just left it again for another good 30 minutes. Saw the balance was near 0! I said to myself, damn, should have withdrawn it already when I was at 0.01BTC.
5. Just yolobet the remaining balance and won and lost it all resulting to exactly 0. Then played one 500 satoshi yolo bet coming from their faucet and lost.
6. Checked my bet history and saw 4 straight losses and to my surprise, they were actually winning bets! Attached below is proof,

https://i.imgur.com/YOgRpMK.png

After posting on their thread ^[4], they changed the results and made it all winning bets but did not return the amount! Now the above bets I got was turned to winning bets because I posted it in their thread and they probably are erasing the evidence now as I am typing this!

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=975321
Reference Link: paradice.io
Amount Scammed: 0.1
Payment Method: BTC
Proof of Payment: Deposit to site proof: https://blockchain.info/tx/439d5adf8877adff5e2b47c8dff981126cb47fe0a430e6089e48ae57f6e9e118
PM/Chat Logs: N/A
Additional Notes: Site may be scamming other people with this without knowing!
I hope paradice still pays that promotion or we'll all go openning new scam accusations again. :/


Reference:

[1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1899645 | Archived: http://archive.is/ICvZs
[2]: https://blockchain.info/tx/1316cfe4c8e213846ef36d67c4007df5e649ce33824ed19d9b0f58f350c4213b | Archived: http://archive.is/36XO8
[3]: https://blockchain.info/tx/d9bb65db5c201c6e25e5e168e83a5d2408636805aee3fdeafbb3e4205974978d | Archived: http://archive.is/PcYA4
[4]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1844659.260 | Archived: http://archive.is/rBrgU

---

Some additional info,

If it was a mistake from their side(as it seems), they will probably get in touch with you and correct your balance problem. Let us know if it is setelled by their next visit to the forum or not?

Hi loanshark,

As I already told you on paradice chat it was just a visual bug. Here is how we see in bets history: https://gyazo.com/da21020ca4c358feeafcf6adb297019d .

I talked with math guy and he explained why this happened. You all said about faster bets and I asked him to do them faster. While testing there was an erorre with cloudfare that made this to appear red appear instead of green, he offered a long explanation but I'm not so good with this stuffs. And actually you lost on your previous bets quite fair, I just checked results of all your bets.

For sure in the next 3 days, I hope users will be able to check every single bet. We still work on this.

We are sorry for this unhappy event.

Lacker

Is your Math guy autistic ? What kind of cloudflaire error turns your winning bets to losing or changes the color ? FYI,cloudflaire doesn't interact with what happens on your client side logic which is where your betting should work.You gave an explanation that we expect from a retard and not a gambling site's owner.I'd like your math guy to post what exactly happened. 

This was what I was thinking. I don't think anything affects the betting system outside of their script. Well, I'd like to see some expert opinions here as well.

Sorry paradice, I don't buy the cloudflare excuse.

Edit: I also don't buy the excuse that you had someone working the script that's why it caused some problems!

---

I am not also buying this excuse! How can it be a visual bug when you deducted the loss on my account?! Return all my winnings, as I think you just made me lose through some technical way!

If it was visual bug only then his balance should be not affected, but the fact he lost what he should win.
Curious to know how will you deal with this bug, hope not many players affected by this bug.

It happened only last night when dev was working on website. Now he is sleeping, when he will wake up I will come back with a proper explanation.

Lacker

I have quite a bit of experience playing on other Coindice-based sites and have reason to believe this was a bug and not an intentional scam. However, if it has caused the player to lose balance when they should have won, it's obviously not a visual bug. The admin's response here fails to address the issue - the bets history he posted is irrelevant to the actual issue because it doesn't say anything regarding the history of the player's balance. If the OP is ok with this, the best way forward would be for the admin to provide a complete history of the player's bets so that the balance can be recalculated.

Also, to the OP: Was 0.1 a typo? From your explanation, the 'scammed' amount sounds like 0.01.

1, 0.1, 0.01, it all doesn't matter. If shit like this happens, then I am not even sure the site is legit. It may have been cheating me or every player without us even noticing! The problem is that how can I even verify that I was not cheated on my rolls before? :/

Quoting this here.

I honestly believed the site at first and I actually actively gave feedback to them. Well, that was before when all this happened.

---

I was about positive 0.01BTC until it turned 0, how can I even check that all that was lost in a legitimate rolls? :/

You can verify the rolls with the clients seed provided ? Or they don't have a provable fair mechanism ? This is a big red flag then.Quite sure they would have a section to verify your rolls with the secret hash.All gambling dice sites do.

Apparently, they don't! I just realize when things went south.

---

Then I just realize they arbitrarily changed house edge! This happened mid game when I was playing autobet, WITHOUT NOTICE. They did not even care to stop the autobet playing and announcing it in chat at least.

Surprised that no DT members has really tagged paradice about this. They have not really answered the accusation here. Just a measly denial and blaming it on others.

Left a tag for now til a proper explanation comes. If its not a viable excuse theyll keep the paint

Thank you Yahoo.

do you know that yahoo is russian fucking monkey and scammer?

Roboabhishek is alt acc paradice.io https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=511662

he is scammer too.

give him red trust please too

They were a scam from the beginning itself, and there is a lot of scam allegations against the owner in this forum.

We just added bet history. Every user can check his old bets, as so we do ask LoneShark to check his bets and come here with a reply.

What does that prove? I insist on knowing how the bug happened if not intentionally.Your attempt of putting it vaguely using cloudflare as an excuse clearly failed.I still need a technical answer from your 'Math Guy'  because he clearly know what is he doing,we call it scam.Betting history comes with a verification method by any chance to make sure the bets are provable fair ?

Hi,

developer speakin, excuse my bad grammar im russian.


Actually all known and above mentioned bugs are fixed + now there are no more Transaction fees when withdrawing money.

Also please note, the users money wasn't at risk at any time.


As we want to learn from people perspective and feedback, we are steady upgrading our website to their wishes.

People should see from beginnin how everything evolves within time, we also want exactly this kind of feedback.

In the past months we did so many changes, working every day, from beginnin to now its a complete new experience.

// @Loneshark

Im very sorry for this confusion, i was working on the backend while user Loneshark was playing, there was a setting "cache whole site and display as live" in cloudflare wich may caused this bug to happen while server was rebooting.

After the server had rebooted, you should automaticly get redirected from that "live caching page" to the actual "live site". I think this is what happened.

I've also watched the server logs of course, and it says that youve won the mentioned bets, wich u lost on the screenshot.
 But this was only a Unique visual bug, and took like 5seconds and wont happen again in future, also you dont even lost money through this bug, i think its a bit harsch to directly open scam accussion, also you declare the situation very long, do you get paid for finding bugs and post them instantly? as you didnt loss a cent, and played over hours, you find this 5sec bug and screenshot it within time and describe a full scam thread? bcaus of what?

We will from now on use a Maintaince site for this kind of work, again im very sorry for confusion and all that time it took you


// About Bet-Verifin

You can at any time, verify the last bet by looking at the "Fair?" tab.
As we only save the previous and the actual seed, it is not possible to show any later seeds.
im not done, also the middle part (loneshark) is just alpha, but what u say to loneshark part especially

You say it was a visual bug, how can a visual bug deduct from my balance? I don't think so! This is why you guys refunded me the 0.002 lost because of your "visual bug"

---

How about the issue of changing the house edge mid game? I only play on casinos with 1% house edge or lower. If the HE was higher than that, I don't even try to deposit! This is a primary consideration for me. Then you guys just arbitrarily changed HE without my knowledge while I left my game on autobet. I accumulated winnings already before you changed the HE, I demand that you refund me those lost because you changed HE.

---

I don't think a scam accusation is harsh, since I think this is a duty I should fulfill, as to warn people about your site. People actually deposit and use real money to play and you can't just tell us

"it's in alpha stage so sorry for your loss but you know what, we'll try to fix the bug but we won't refund you!"

Technically, this is what you are saying to my face.

Our final comment on this matter.

We said our house edge is variable. If you can't read maybe we should record a voice message where we will explain to you.

@LoneShark, the 0.002 was a bonus, not a refund, please read carefuly what I said and what we talked. About you personally, I believe you are an idiot or you are paid to be an idiot.

You didn't lost any bitcoin on our website even if there was seen as lose, after a simple refresh everything was fine.

This is a bad image over us even if nothing happened to users balances or fairness of our gambling website.

We ask reputable members who marked us with a red colour to review the website themselves or to reply with what they don't understand on this topic.

Lacker

Variable house edge does not mean you can change it anytime you want. It means you give a house edge which is actually fixed but it changes depending on your bet! Assuming I bet the same way since the start, that means my house edge should not have changed no matter what.

---

You made me laugh at " the 0.002 was a bonus, not a refund, please read carefuly what I said and what we talked." LOL

You say it is a "bonus" not a refund? So you are saying that the system did deduct my 0.002 because I lost 4 times with 4 winning bets and it was legit? Wow.

You also said I did not lose 0.002btc, but I did! I refreshed plenty of times, but the funds did not show up. That means your gambling site did declare my bets as a loss. Don't you argue that it did not happen this way, because you know yourselves it did happen.

---

When you can't argue anymore, call your opponent an idiot. That's the kind of people who runs this place.

---

You should have fixed everything before you even let people deposit money!

Well, this is what I also said in starting.
I have seen this bug on primedice also many times which is caused due to Cloudflare.

This is not a server based bug so i think balance can't get affected by it at all.

So try explaining why it affected my balance please and why they admitted it by "refunding" me the supposed wins. :/

I am not saying that you are wrong or paradice is.
Just sharing my exp of this kind of bug I faced.

Hello, dev speaking.

// Loneshark

As I can see you deposited 0.01 as your 1st deposit.

Then you made a withdraw of " -0.01032500 " This is what I can see on server logs.

Then again you made a withdraw of " 0.00532500 "

And then you were playing with the remaining balance after " 0.00532500 " withdraw of yours.

After losing those bets " 1342736 & 1342726 " You made a max bet of 0.00061700 and in between, there were are loses.

https://gyazo.com/7482c42074b0716a4cf42ca0947f8e67



I am curious why you made this false accusation in order to get the balance you lost " 0.001 " as bonus when you have already withdrawn 0.017+

In chronological order:

1. Deposited 0.01.
2. Played till I got to 0.015+ and withdrew 0.010325 (minus fees and got 0.01)
3. Played remaining balance till I got 0.01 and withdrew 0.005325 (minus fees and got 0.005)
4. Played till I got 0.015+ again. Did not withdrew.
5. Left game on autobet.
6. Did not notice game's HE changed to higher than 1% and lost all of the 0.015
7. Site cheated me 0.0005 x 4 winning bets at 1.02 chance. (you call it visual bug but your site eat up my 0.002) Then did yolo bet on the remaining.
8. Lacker (a site admin or whatever) refunded my 0.002  and did not pay my wins actually (though it was just small so whatever.)
9. I withdrew the 0.002 he gave, since I lost trust in your site.

Yep I won 0.017+ but actually I could have won more if you didn't change the HE mid game. And here we go again. I could have just took the 0.015 more and could have withdrawn 0.03+, but you changed the HE and cheated my rolls.

Edit: Compare my version to your logs and you'll see they match. This is not a false accusation!

Edit2: Don't also call it a bonus! It is no where near a bonus! You owe me that amount because your system failed or cheated, I don't know. You owe me that!

It's admin,
As dev explained the full situation.

- There was visual bug " True "
- You can see your past in All bets " It shows your all the bets you have made since your account was made "
- You have lost 0.001 Not 0.002 " As you can see in the screenshot that bet you made of 0.000617 was a max bet after winning on 1.5x "
https://gyazo.com/7482c42074b0716a4cf42ca0947f8e67



- And loneshark it's clearly stated that we don't have static house edge so it's useless to blame us for that.
- We gave you that 0.002 as a bad EXP you faced by the visual bug but it's impossible to believe that you lost balance for that.


That's all I want to reply to this accusation
Regards

I give up explaining to you guys. It's getting tiresome.

A "winning bet that lost" is not the same as a "no losing bet"

Just check the damned PHOTO!

1342768, Bet amount 0.0005, target <95.09, Roll 63.39, LOST
1342767, Bet amount 0.0005, target <95.09, Roll 31.06, LOST
1342765, Bet amount 0.0005, target <95.09, Roll 28.35, LOST
1342763, Bet amount 0.0005, target <95.09, Roll 20.75, LOST

Simple math 4 x 0.0005 = 0.002. NOT 0.001! Wtf?! You call yourself the math guy? :/

Visual bug that ate my balance?! Then that is not visual only! :/

Also why do you bring up the bet 1342789!? That is not the bets in question. Oh my god. :/

I would not blame your site if it was legit! Check my account on yolodice. I lost 0.5btc there. I did not complain, because they are LEGIT. Unlike yours and you don't admit it. If it was an error admit your damned mistake!

AGAIN FOR THE Nth F*ing TIME, 0.002BTC YOU GAVE WAS NOT A F*ing BONUS! YOU OWE ME THAT BECAUSE YOUR SYSTEM ATE UP MY BALANCE!!!! DO NOT EVER EVER MENTION THIS SHIT AGAIN!

I also give up on your ignorance. You still owe me money here and you know it. Also, do not f*ing forget you still owe me for your giveaway which will be on the 15th!

EDIT: PS. I just love how the site just freezes whenever I click on bet history. Best site ever! :D

Paradice seem to be scammer and after a proper explanation by Lone Shark they are now giving baseless reasons to hide their scam/bug.

The only problem we are having an idiot user called Lone Shark. It can be easily seen here the bets he is talking about: https://gyazo.com/7482c42074b0716a4cf42ca0947f8e67

Another problem is the we were too kind and gave him 0.002.

We learned from these mistakes and next time we will just close the accounts of users who make this kind of false accusations with no future comments.

Yeah, very professional from you guys. You always call that 0.002BTC as "bonus" of your kind generosity! But in fact, it is something you OWE me. Since your site had a bug that made me lose 4 straight bets at 0.0005BTC each bet. That means you OWE me 0.002BTC and the supposed win amount. Which you did not credit by the way.

I can't stress enough how irrational and unprofessional you guys are. No way your site is going to get anywhere.

About your proof, it's practically stupid to just show that as I have shown proof to you about the event and you dare not explain but just deny it. You do not even offer a concrete evidence of this. All you say is that "it's a visual bug from cloud flare".

I should open another scam accusation on you because now, you did not pay me your promised giveaway. More red coming your way. Good luck.

How can anyone know that your picture it is not fake?

How can anyone know that your balance was affected?

Just please try to be serious.

What motive do I have to lie about this? All I want is to expose your sorry ass thieving dice site here, so no one else gets scammed. Just also to inform you, I don't have any photoshop skills to even fake that. You can always send it to photo forensic services that will confirm whether it was edited.

Bottomline here, I really believed your site was legit until you cheated me. You can see it even on my post about giving honest feedback on your site, which by the way you promised to give me 20mbtc for doing. Now, off to another scam accusation since you didn't pay that out for most users who joined.

Why do you think we want to lie on this? We speak here about cents. The only problem is happening inside your brain who can't get that his balance wasn't affected if the picture is true.

I give up talking to you guys. It's pointless, all you do is deny and insult. Just offer the community a reasonable explanation, if you cannot then keep the red tag on you and good luck getting gamblers to play at your site.

Let's ignore the variable house edge element for now. I believe it's part of the issue here (and I think it's a bad idea in general), but this is a bug that goes far beyond the way that system was intended. My calculation might be off here, but I think losing a x1.02 "roll under" bet with a roll of 20.75 would require a house edge near 80%, nothing like the 0.5 to 3% intended.

ParaDice.io: The bet history that you show doesn't explain what happened to the 0.015 balance that Lone Shark says he had made after his withdrawals - it only shows 5 losses totalling about a tenth of that. With the assumption that Lone Shark is telling the truth about having that balance in the first place, the most reasonable explanation here is that the bug he showed caused him to lose the rest. I think your bet history is coded in such a way that it shows what should have happened (him winning 0.00001 with many bets), but doesn't show what actually happened at the time due to the bug (him losing 0.0005 with each of those bets.) Unless you can either prove that he never had that balance in the first place, or how he actually lost it, your site has ripped him off and you owe him compensation and an apology.

I think the bet history cannot be seen on puredice.com as well.
But I can't get it.
If the balance was affected then paradice should have the real amount with a little bonus.
Practically why would admin try to ruin the image of his website on which he worked so hard for just 0.015 and on the other hand Loneshark, I think there must be confusion it could be a visual bug from CloudFlare like I saw on primedice and you said that you were away and you lost in the bets that were passed.

Can everybody stop with the VISUAL BUG! For the nth time, how can a visual bug also deduct from my account?! This argument is getting old and repetitive. Give me something else more plausible! Don't continue on giving that crap. YOU and PARADICE have consistently said this already but we all know it's BS. I give up on you guys, really.

Unless you give out concrete answers then let this scam accusation run for all I care. Everything was said already, it's all up to you guys if you want to do something about those negative trust. All I can say is that I stand by what has been stated here.

Lone Shark... what you need to do is look at your full bet history and import it into a spreadsheet and calculate the total wins and loss amounts with a running total.

Looking at these screenshots, it is impossible for anyone to say what really happened... On your screenshot, the rolls show as losses with a -0.0005. On theirs it shows as a win of +0.00001. What nobody can see, is what actually happened to the balance at this time.

You claim that it "ate your balance"... but we can not see that... and unfortunately, I doubt you can prove it unless you happened to be recording video at the time :(
They say it was just a "visual bug" and that, while it displayed as a loss on your screen, in the server logs (and now in the new screenshot of your roll history) it shows as a win, so your balance would have been unaffected.

Like I said, dump your ENTIRE roll history... and start creating a running total based on win/loss amounts... you'd need to add/subtract any deposits/withdraws and any faucet claims...

That should at least prove one way or the other whether your account is short by the 0.002 or if in fact it was just a so-called "visual bug"...

I wish I could, but their crappy site is broken AF. When clicking betting history there, the page freezes and I have to refresh it to make it work again. I have consistently asked for a copy of all my bets, which they have not shown. Now, I think they have already doctored everything so I think it won't be reliable anymore.

Just to prove it, my screenshot showed 4 straight losses (which actually won), thinking it was legit at the time, I just yolobet the remaining balance. That is why you'll see some bets after that were broken numbers which were:

1. 0.00030850 which won so it was doubled
2. 0.00061700 which lost
3. 0.00000500 which was a faucet claim which also lost

That shows that I did get a 0 balance.

I've lost more money on other sites, far more than this. I am not here to cheat any system, I don't care if I lose just make sure it was fair. But this gambling site is a cheat. I don't care if I can't get back those few mbtc they cheated me, I care about people not going there to lose their btc to cheats!

As we told be before we are going to refund you no matter what.
This is actually not a system bug.
It happened because of CloudFlare and there's also a possibility that you changed those numbers with Inspect Elements which is very easy even for a kid.

You are just an addicted gambler crying for your lost 0.002BTC and you are complaining and trying to what you lost back through the act of Extortion.

And I have no idea how you convinced trusted members here to believe your fake story and supporting you even when your proof makes no sense.

Now I am thinking I made a mistake giving you a bonus of 0.002 you don't deserve it on 1st place.

We admit that there was a visual bug but it's a rare one.

On the other hand as HCP said you didn't make a video but a Screen shot which can be manipulated easily.

---

I ask the Honorable Members on this forum to review this accusation until OP has a solid proof.

You guys are impossible. All you do is deny and insult. This is specially reserved for people who don't have any argument, like a kid that got caught doing bad. I convinced them with proof and your bad attitude. What makes no sense are all your argument in this thread.

Again "bonus" is not the proper term. IT'S FREAKING REFUND BECAUSE YOUR SYSTEM CHEATED ME. Thank you for refunding me of what you cheated me. Mistake my ass. You owe me that, you cannot twist it no matter what you do. Again, visual bug my ass. Go shut down your scam site.

Also, what proof did you show? A screenshot as well right? I'll just let the people decide for this. I'm done with your scam site.

Shouting like that not change anything.

You are an addicted gambler trying to get your small lose by the act of extortion.

Plus you will pay for what you have done in the last couple of days to hurt the reputation of my project.
Everyone know that the proof you have provided cannot be considered.

And the way you said I will let members decide shows that you want to slip away that easy

We were ignoring you because of your actions


EDIT: I am sorry for this unprofessional behavior.
Actually I am pissed by the actions of loneshark and which is to obtain money by Threatening us instead of talking in a proper way.

So after reading both sides of the story,I jumped to a few conclusions/rhetorical questions -
-Paradice,why not ask your developer to elaborate on the bug instead you giving vague examples ?
-LoanShark,considering you're correct,what you want to do next ? They've already been tagged by the DT.You should just stop playing there maybe ?
- Paradice,you don't run a business with that attitude especially when you're suspected for cheating.
 

I am sure admin is a bit pissed of by the actions of loneshark.
But what admin said is true on PD we use inspect elements to make fun of each other and it can be used for the cause also.

I can see that yahoo changed his feedback to neutral maybe he's satisfied what the admin said.

That was not a shout. You cant shout through the internet that would be preposterous.

Where was the threat in all that I stated here? All I posted here were facts nothing else. All I wanted was a good explanation. But what did you do? You resulted to just insults and denials. You also always claim i should be greatful. But why should I? You owe me that and you should be the one that should be apologetic and not an arogant prick.

If I want to get back my loses, I should have opened a scam accusation against yolodice. Too bad I saw your so called "bugs" and exposed you to the world.

Yahoo changed his feedback, but he still warns people of this still open scam accusation which you still have not answered by the way.

I'm unwatching this thread. Peace out.

Edit: @roboguy, I don't necessary accept whatever you say since you have a great bais for working for them.

I still am puzzled up a bit here. Hope some one can make this easier for me to understand.

So bug was a visual bug only that was caused when server got down and rebooted and LoneShark placed bet at that very time and got his bets result wrong due to that. Am I right?  :-\

What Lone Shark is saying is that he had money in his balance which was lost because of bets with the wrong result, and the bet history as it appears now does not reflect what actually happened. Assuming his claim is true, if they were to look at his earlier bets, they would find 0.013 (give or take) of winnings which are unaccounted for. Paradice.io keeps posting the wrong part of the bet history as irrelevant 'proof', which may be a mistake on their part, or may be feigning ignorance.

I am really sorry for oppening again such a thread. But I just saw their gambling page and they are continous changing the website to a better version.

Are they a scam casino? As far as I saw there is no legitimate proof or understanding of what happened here....

The feedback is neutral from trusted users ... and i don't get why it is neutral

The whole story is that LoneShark claimed that he lost some mbtc on paradice and as a proof, he showed a screen shot in which bet should be a winning one but it was a lose.
I don't think a screen shot proof is enough to prove something as it can be easily manipulated and the same thing people thought who gave Paradice -ve after this scam accusation and that's why they turned it to neutral unless everything is solved.

You can read more what happened above.