Bitcoin Forum

It's nice to see ETC getting some attention.  I suppose the Ethereum Foundation has stopped gradually dumping huge amounts of it on exchanges.

Just goes to show that cryptocurrencies don't all have to be in competition with Bitcoin.  Bitcoin's decreasing percentage of the total cryptocurrency market cap shows diversity, not opposition.

What's the starting point for these numbers? Is this growth just for today? Bitcoin up by 7% gives me that hunch, but I'm surprised all the others are up.

Where's Doge? Much missed.

This cryptocurrency run is a powder keg. There are three coins on there that are legit - Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ether. What are the rest used for other than speculation? What retailers actually accept zcash or augur or golem for example?

This reminds me of a line from a movie - bitcoin is my crypto-currency, there are many like it but this one is mine...

Zcash has the best underlying privacy technology (zk-snark) and has good corporate backing. I think it will be a leader in getting Crypto accepted and used in business-to-business transactions; Augur is for prediction markets, Golem is for distributed computing.

All the major alts now have serious use cases, even if we are still early in their deployment. So the breezy dismissals of them by some Bitcoiners are now badly out of date. This isn't 2014. Bitcoin may remain a flagship, though that remains to be seen. But it is the flagship of a large and growing fleet, not a single boat.

Haha, well thanks for the education! I will consider myself part of the Bitcoiner crowd offering "breezy dismissals". But I'll now offer the respect deserved.

If Z cash could be used for business to business transactions, are we talking intercompany purchasing or true business to business?

Retailers don't accept Litecoin or Ether either, and very few accept Bitcoin.  No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever.  Their price is only based on the money that people hold in them, and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it but they don't just put it in, spend it and be done with it.  People also don't only hold money in PayPal that they're spending that second.

And yes, it's daily price changes.

Well, we're just talking my opinion and off-the-cuff comment, so it's not worth much. But my understanding of ZCash is that the protocol provides a more elegant privacy solution, while simultaneously allowing for auditability in a secure and controlled way. In other words, businesses or individuals can have private transactions (no competitors seeing everything they do financially on a public blockchain) without using mixers or additional complications. But on the flip side they can open their books to 3rd party auditors, government investigators, other businesses looking into investing in them and so on, in a way that allows the auditor to be sure they are getting the full picture without compromising the Zcash users security. That strikes me as the right mix to overcome some practical obstacles that have been holding back businesses from getting significantly involved with crypto for internal operations and B-2-B transactions.

And this is why BTC will remain number 1 as long as we don't see real use cases to pay with crypto for stuff you can already pay with fiat.

Sure, to make transnational payments to a relative or a friend, crypto shines, but how often do you need to do that? not very often. So most people treat BTC as gold. The rest of cryptos, just to speculate to make and hold more gold (BTC).

Once physical cash is removed, we may see a higher demand of BTC to use it in exchange of daily services. Until then, BTC is king as a gold alternative and will keep going up.

And some alts will make people very rich in a quick way, with the higher risk of getting involved in alts.

All of those funds flow into cryptocurrency which indicates people trust it more than before, more money, more adopters as this world growing bigger, unlike the usual trading day when some coins rise and others fall.
But, unfortunately Op didn't screenshot another one,  but sort from the highest price and we will see the highest rate from bitcoin and so on, yeah take a look for a while.

Well, this is actually sad, because it means I can't pick up coins at a cheap price...

I really like to see that golem price is building up, im hope it will reach far more than 0.25$, and will increase its volume.
Im currently in it, already bought some around 2 weeks ago, and I cant really regret!

Also, this almost 10% rise of ethereum classic is a good sign, I was willing to buy some lately as a diversification: but its too late i guess!

Anyway, im very happy about the bitcoin price. It crossed 1500 level rewlly violently, and we can already see that the volume is also increasing among the exchanges.

I feel the same way and its really sad we cant purchase them already on a lower price.I did engage most of them but sell off on a cheaper price but still okay after all as long I do have the profits. LTC is moving now with 1B marketcap which indicates its potential and also to ZEC I thought it was dead already but now its included on top coins.Holy cow

Whole crypto is dragged up by ethereum for a few months now thanks to the adoption by corporations and institutions. This dragged everyone's attention to public cryptocurrencies, and they are not buying only ether, but bitcoin and others aswell.

Plus, there are parts of the world where you still can't buy ether directly so they have to go through bitcoin to buy ether, which is also increasing every other coin's price because there are more money to speculate with.

there will be many who regret not hodling. 

It's more likely that there will be many who regret not selling.  Altcoins often have sections of going up and down, it's just that this one is more dramatic than before.  Some of the altcoins like ETH and Monero will stick around, but plenty of those altcoins are going right back down again.

I think you contradict yourself: "No cryptocurrency will have its price based on its utility, ever" > "Their price is based on the money that people hold in them" > "and utility is part of the reason why people hold money in it"....so yeah, a coin's utility, a currency's utility DOES have a direct impact on its value.

To think that majority of people owning a cryptocurrency do so to hope the price goes up is very dangerous, because there's no need for so many versions of cryptocurrency that provide the same utility. It's a set up for a huge bust in the value of the cryptocurrencies that don't have a utility that compares to bitcoin or ether.

Full disclosure on my knowledge - I don't know all of the utility these other coins offer.

PayPal isn't an accurate analogy. PayPal is not currency. You can't buy "PayPal coins". PayPal is on the same level as cash vs. debit card vs. credit card vs. wire transfer vs. Venmo...it's just a channel by which people submit currency.

However,Zcash is really insecure when it comes to privacy.The critics say,they developers indirectly have access to your private keys which is not only bad but a big NO.The price drops in the early stages is enough for me to stay away.

You can always pick up the best ones at the current price which would always be cheap when you think of the future.Better yet,pick one of your gems from the new altcoin market.

How would the exchanges run if everyone only were over possessive about holding ?

If Altcoins had really so many negative moments, then many bitcoin users would not have invested in it.

There is always a part of me that will regret not buying more at the same time at least the ones we hold are appreciating
The challenge is trying to find a peak and then a buyback spot.

I'm excited about this month getting bitcoin from signature campaign when bitcoin is to the moon and successful trading gets a lot of profit and also now it's hold altcoin because bitcoin rise causes altcoin fall a very awaited moment.

No really late though. When it was $200+ for the first time, everyone said it was an bubble and it did burst... but then it became $1200... then burst and drop to $200+.

It took me so much courage to buy 0.5BTC at that time, and regretted wasting $100 on something that was "going to die"... then nothing happened for monthsss... then the rally all the way...

In short, it is never late.

Interesting,  but I've never heard of golem, and the laggers on that list are pretty shitty, even if they're some of the highest in market cap.   And all of them combined could be bought by Warren Buffett.   Think about that.   I think the upside potential is enormous,  especially for bitcoin itself.   Even at $1600 there wouldn't be enough to go around if it got widely adopted.

I am still amazed at the run that bitcoin is having, considering that a few months ago, the market cap was way below $20B, then fast forward to now, it has zoomed past $25B. Talk about being bullish despite some issues and obstacles that are floating around. This train is going to lose steam at some point, but for now, it is as strong as ever.

Exactly. I visited one of the exchange and seeing the present performance of all coins early today. I was happy to see that more than 90% of the coins were green i.e. rising.
Especially, Ethereum and coins build on Ethreum blockchain show unexpected growth!!

Yeah, as quoted ethereum based projects were moving with high growth. From the starting of the year every coin has been moving with good profiting phase. Now bitcoin seems to grow without any other unadulterated or fake pump. So this makes the real growth of all cryptocurrencies.

When we know the very high price dibitcoin
That's what makes you happy

You could hold altcoins if you like also, you can convert your bitcoins to altcoins, it will give more profit than holding bitcoins alone.
IF you have a good number of bitcoin it's good but coming from sig campaign, i think it's not worth it.

Yup, everyone gets happy to see the green in the chart. People must be overjoyed with their investments in many of these alts but I think the only people who are not happy could be the ones who sold just at the wrong time, i.e. early stages of the rise.

Yes bitcoin marketcap increased​ and it makes price of bitcoin increased too, also the other investors on altcoins
they are happy because the marketcap of altcoins increased too especially the altcoins that has large capitalization,
that is mean growing of digital coins becomed good at least on the digital coins price.

If you were smart enough and believed in block chain technology so you would have holded few coins and your investment would have grown multiple times within few years. Ystd itself bitcoin has crossed the highest ever 1600$+ price per btc.  Well now it would not be very feasible to buy at this current high price in case if looking for investment purpose.

Really happy to see the chart, all of the alt coin really give me a good profit, a lot of people now also gaining profit by investing alt coin, this is surely the year of alt coin, investing in alt coin give a better profit for this few months and bitcoin also rising, so it is a happy things for crypto currencies users

Every cryptocurrency holder or trader is happy now looking at the charts, especially BTC holder, they are getting dreams now and those who neglected BTC and other cryptocurrencies will get to know the value of it. Look at the Litecoin chart, its sky high now.

Indeed, crypto is a speculator's "derivative-like" market, it has nothing to do with what the coin could potentially do (even though the story is needed to justify the speculation as rational).
All these things are very, very highly speculative assets, and some of them can have some minuscule real world economic usage and value (like bitcoin).  But they are mainly gambling tokens, and the market is levelling out because gambling with one clearly leading horse is not going to make it.

BTW, it is scary to see all these "revolutionary crypto enthusiasts" happy because their token has less and less hope to be a mainstream currency one day, and to see all these "banking and finance haters" to jump of joy because their replacement token has become a worse speculative thing than a banker's wildest dream.  I guess this is when the spirit of crypto got buried definitively.

I must say its been nice seeing this run up in Bitcoin and all cryptos overall. You know this is only the tip of the iceberg. I suspect a $300-$500 pull back any day now. I am very optimistic for Bitcoin over the next decade. I use the 80/20 rule when using Bitcoin. Save 80% and make transactions with the other 20%. We must use the platform and support the miners. I also like to buy small daily amounts of Bitcoin from $5 to $15 daily. In this environment you never know will the price will go. Using Bitcoin's momentum by investing daily while dollar cost averaging is the sanest way to go about it. When a large pull back comes along, say 10%-50% in losses be ready to take advantage. Always have fire sale money on the sidelines for moments like these. David BTC Silverspoon

Seem all cryptocurrency are increasing in price which is somehow strange  ??? .  Does this mean cryptoccurency is now getting attention from all people in the world and not only Bitcoin?  This is great news to those who are holding several cryptocurrency coins aside from Bitcoin and are listed in green market.

You will soon see most of the money not invested into Bitcoin, flowing back into it. People buy Alt coins and then make some profits and then the bubble burst and they buy more Bitcoins. Why? Bitcoin has the biggest merchant and user network of all the other Alt coins combined. < Name ONE big merchant that accepts Alt coins ? >

This might change over time, when governments starts to show their real support for some of these Alt coins. < ETH & Ripple >

It's mean you just missed the trains, there were many of coins getting dumped hard after the increase of bitcoin price a week ago and it's really the right time to buy but, who knows if something will go this way as usually when the price of bitcoin is just pumped, the price of altcoins dumped hard at the same time until bitcoin is stable or dumped. Well, luckily I'm currently holding large amounts of altcoins listed above  ;D .

That is a very good news almost all coin now are pumping it means that the cryptocurrency now is way of being more popular in the market and many investors are coming to support bitcoin and other alt coin. So we should happy about that because the future of cryptocurrency is making a huge change and many peoples are attracting to it.

That's the old paradigm.  I'm not sure it is the new one.  The jury is still out on this one.  When you see that bitcoin's crypto market share at this moment is below 60%, there's not *necessarily* a reason to flee back into bitcoin when the bubble bursts, because the bitcoin bubble might just as well burst.  Alts used to be gambler's assets with a safe heaven bitcoin when bitcoin was essentially the de facto crypto monopoly with more than 80% of market share.  When things level out more, the obvious choice for safe heaven in bitcoin is not necessarily the case any more.  Although it still may be.
But in a truly speculative environment, no systematic laws can prevail, because if they do, they are neutralized by profit taking.  So the systematic bitcoin-as-a-growing-safe-heaven is something that, by the time it is established, should be neutered by speculative forces in the market.  (essentially, that's the efficient-market-hypothesis).


Nobody cares about merchants accepting coins, or other applications.  This is just pure speculation.  Most people buy bitcoin on exchanges, and sell it on exchanges.  And a few geeks buy an airplane ticket with bitcoin, while they could, in most cases, also use their credit card and get an insurance on top.  This is just the kind of story that "justifies" the speculation, but is by no means what drives the market.

there are still coins under 1k satoshi, but it's indeed more difficult, it seem that ivnestors are seeking for small cheap coins and buy tons of those believing that they will increase

their investment will make them increase of course


i see this argument many time lately, but it's not right to think that all the money that are in the altcoin, are there just because they want more bitcoin, they are there because they think that bitcoin might collapse one day and they like to diversificate

otherwise if what you said was true, right now all the altcoin would be dumped to the ground and only bitcoin would be the only one, instead even old altcoin are still there stronger than ever

Yes, Etherum this year making a huge name by the incredibly pumping of it's price but as you can see many coin now are pumping means the cryptocurrency itself is making a name by the crowd by the massive pumping off almost all coin especially the top currency is the bitcoin.

Wow this is the first time i see this kind of beautiful view from cryptocurrencies. Back in the day, altcoins are not like that. When bitcoin pumps, the altcoins dump so hard and it hits a very low level where their investors are backing out but now, altcoins and bitcoin is together and they are all pumping up. It seems that bitcoin is not the only good coin to invest for long term anymore 8).

Very rare and strange behavior of the market. Normally when bitcoin rose (and rose strong) almost all the other altcoins go in red. It is the first time that I see that the green of bitcoin is accompanied with the green of all the main altcoins at the market. Who is able to explain this?

I think there are several aspects that can play a role, but their validity depends upon the view one has on the fundamentals. If crypto were essentially a currency, that is, stuff you use to buy goods and services, then I think that there would be a strong convergence to one single asset, because a currency gets more utility, the larger its user network is.  This is what has been pretended about bitcoin since a long time.  There would be a virtuous cycle, that makes that the bigger a currency user network is, the larger the chances are that you can use that currency for something you want to buy.  As such, a newcomer would like to jump into the biggest network currency ; lesser networks would simply fade away.  Also, as a merchant, you're most probably want to deal with the network that has most potential customers.

This argument is valid if the asset is essentially a currency, and if its market is essentially driven by people wanting to spend it as a currency.  In fact, if this were true, there wouldn't ever be a serious alt coin, because it cannot compete with the first mover that has the largest network.  This is what bitcoin fans consider as the ultimate proof that the only "true" crypto currency is bitcoin.

The problem with that argument is of course that bitcoin didn't turn out to be a currency, and this is entirely due to its monetary policy, which is designed for a huge deflationary spiral.  A deflationary spiral makes that the value of the monetary unit rises so fast, that people want to hoard it, instead of spend it, and are going to use something else as a currency.  In other words, a deflationary spiral turns a potential currency into a speculative asset.  With bitcoin, and many other crypto, the design of the monetary policy, inspired by the sound money doctrine, is totally axed on being deflationary, with the obvious consequence of it not having a currency-driven market, but a speculation-driven market.

And once we consider crypto not as a currency (mainly), but as a speculative asset, the market dynamics turns around.  There's simply no way in which you can have an obvious, clearly defined market leader in essentially *equivalent* speculative tokens ; in fact, you are most likely to make huge speculative benefits if you invest mainly in the SMALLER tokens, because they can rise more.  The bigger the network, this time, the smaller the possibility of steady big rise.  A coin with a market cap can, as history has shown, easily rise from $100 million to a billion.  If you catch it at $100 million, you have a 10-fold gain.  It is harder for a 10 billion coin to rise to 100 billion.

In fact, you better speculate comparable amounts spread out over many coins.  If you have $1000,- to play with, and you put $50 in the first 20 coins, chances are much bigger that you make a lot of money than if you put all of them on one horse.

But if all speculators do that, all these coins will rise to similar market caps.  So once these market caps will be relatively high, they don't promise much gain any more.  So your next $1000,-, you better spread them over the 40 biggest coins.  If some of them fail, that will made up by those few that "rocket".

Etc.... and in the end, we will have many, many coins rise to a similar market cap order of magnitude.

So in as much as a currency usage would design one clear sole monopolistic market leader, a speculative token market will become more and more uniform.

Hahahaha yeah, I'm really happy about that.

I'm not that much of a fan of altcoin so I'm going to focus of bitcoin... Bitcoin went up like 6% again today which is amazing because that's the sort of returns that you get on your bank deposit every year, and that's in a country where inflation is a real problem. In the US or other countries that have a low interest rate, you'd be lucky to get a 2-3% interest rate, if not even less.

Hopefully this price level is going to hold up, and not become another bubble :)

Lol, I hope that could be what happens every single day.

Makes me happy when I look at coinmarketcap.com when I wake up and I see a sea of green, because I basically have some stake in every single cryptocurrency in the #10 list except for litecoin right now.

However what usually happens after a day of great success for crypto is that the next day or some day in the next week there will be a sea of reds coming in... And then everyone will go depression mode and FUD is everywhere on this forum.

Don't get too caught up in the hype...

Bitcoin currency now is increasing rapidly ,same with ETH that is also used now in more ICO's like Encryptotel ,ETH now earned trust since their showing improvement than before

I just noticed those top 10 listed in the coinmarketcap.com are also increasing their price value, like what happen to bitcoin is more getting higher the value price because the demand is getting increase too, which is a great news to all bitcoin enthusiast.

They are base on the demand. Golem is a supercomputer project which I believe they are to manufacture these computers. Basically these tokens are like stocks, holders are like part owner of the company that tokenized themselves for public to which they held IPO. Maybe someday there will be merchants accepting these tokens.

I see the same rise for almost every (I want to say every) alt I see used on sites other than exchanges. I think the happiest of all are shops who accept DOGE and DOGE merchants who must have been waiting for so long to see some movement.

As history taught those who studied economics... all booms will end up in tears.

Expect a price correction then panic will set in.

The amount of Bitcoin that's actually spent is very, very small compared to the amount of money people hold in it.  Many cryptocurrencies in their current state (Litecoin, for example) are better for everyday transactions than Bitcoin, but you know why not everyone has thrown their money that way?  Because no one cares.
Do you think that the majority of people holding Ether care about its wider blockchain applications?  If so, you're pretty naive.

Yeah that's right! and bitcoin will always be on top because many of the merchants online accepting it as mode of payment, aside that it can be use also to pay with fiat, and the bitcoin demand nowadays can't be stop because its unstoppable.

It's good to see that everything is going up, this is good since the trend was that whenever bitcoins go up all altcoins go down and vice versa. People move out of bitcoins when they see that bitcoins are going up and they leave when it is going down. If everything goes up then everything will have new price points.

I fully agree with you.  Even though there are some minor applications of crypto, where I would think that its principal application is "movement of value where the fiat system cannot go" (think dark markets for instance) and even though that is the true economic value of crypto  90% or even 99% of all this is pure speculation.  I'm now pretty convinced that the main application of crypto is a kind of modern version of the "complex derivatives market", where nobody cares (or is capable of) fathoming what the derivative is actually worth, but they are tokens that are put on a market and where speculators speculate (that is, buy and sell, with the hope of getting money out of their peers, and be at the same time money for their peers, and may the smartest/luckiest win).

I'm also convinced now that this is entirely due to the extremely ill-conceived emission curves of these things, bitcoin as first, which are made such that they automatically fall in a severe deflationary spiral (call it the "beany baby effect" of rarity together with growing awareness ; the same happens with works of art and other stuff that becomes rare when it becomes well known by the public, and allows for huge gains in the pockets of early adopters/gamblers).  I say "ill conceived", with reference to being a "currency".  It is absolutely not ill conceived when thought of being a very highly speculative token that needs to make very rich its early adopters.

There are tokens that have even added extra deflationary amplifiers, such as DASH with its masternode scheme.  DASH is very clearly a system that has been conceived to make early adopters extremely rich.

In all these cases, nobody really gives a shit about the announced application (even though, to get the crowds to the greater fool game, some delusional story is needed, like "replacing all fiat in the world").  The only thing that must hold water is the guarantee that the system will not lose your coins, and will not start printing a lot of them suddenly.  For this, no huge transaction volumes are necessary (but nevertheless, there should be enough capacity to get your holdings fast enough onto and from an exchange, this is where bitcoin starts to become problematic).

what happen to the ETC? why it's fall today? Is it follow the ETH?
and some strange is that calculate force of ETC should keep an radio with the ETH,so I think the etc would rise but it's falled

What you have there, no matter how bright the chart is and blooming, everybody cannot be happy. Its really good at this time that we are all rejoicing but let's also not be unmindful of the difficult days so we don't come around complaining. Let's enjoy while it last.

Indeed, as exciting as it may have seemed at a moment for the altcoin market and promising, but it always has a huge problem of instability and people who are thinking about investing in it can only take advantage of it only for a while so there is no long-term investment, they don’t have the same price curve as bitcoin, they are all copycats except for a couple who are trying to bring new things to the table.

Where did you get these charts? I would like to look up some other cryptocurrencies and track these as well.

It sounds funny, but it still scrapes at least a couple
 8)