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Title: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on April 30, 2013, 04:54:15 AM It looks like the rules of taxation for bitcoin will soon be taking effect
Canada’s Revenue Agency says users of bitcoins are obligated to pay taxes on transactions using the alternative currency, The agency told the CBC that two tax rules apply to the digital currency, depending on how it’s used. Barter transaction rules apply to bitcoins used for goods or services, according to the report. Bitcoins bought and sold for speculative purposes are subject to captial gains or income taxes, depending on the specifics of the case, the agency says http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/04/29/canada-to-tax-bitcoin-transactions/ Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: syn999 on April 30, 2013, 05:07:58 AM at least they dont shut all banks accounts
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Mike Christ on April 30, 2013, 05:17:12 AM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on April 30, 2013, 05:21:33 AM I admit it will be interesting and challenging for them to find everyone's wallet number but they might just copy the Americans seems some legislation is passing through and apply it to provinces and territories instead and bam pulled off. Well sort of, if you keep reading covers your points :)
A bill that would let states tax your online transactions will be one step closer to becoming law. The proposal’s been subject to an unusual battle that’s united liberals and conservatives while dividing big Internet companies. Amazon, for instance, supports the measure —partly because an Internet sales tax would hurt its smaller rivals. But the Senate bill, known as the Marketplace Fairness Act, could also unintentionally wind up serving an upstart of a different kind: Bitcoin, the much-discussed digital currency that some see as a rival to traditional cash or credit cards and others have dismissed as an impractical mashup of technology and money. http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/what-an-internet-sales-tax-could-mean-for-your-bitcoin-stash-20130425 Personally I agree with part of robert mccoys comment on marketwatch if regulations are made it just makes it even more err legit as a real means of trade but unlike his point I think it is practical just the regulations need to be made to increase acceptance probably something like Canada was thinking ahead. I agree with John Kallionen and Rusty Slade below. The CRA has given government recognition to the bitcoin as having some sort of intrinsic value. Canada could be stepping into a mirky bog here. It raises an open question whether you can pay taxes in bitcoins. What happens when another internet currency gains acceptance. A thousand or so computer wizards will be vying to invent the next bitcoin. What the CRA doesn't realize is the very nature of the bitcoin is a direct challenge to a government's sovereign right to create and manage its own currency. It also means the authority of central banks is no longer sacrosanct. This may represent a global fatigue with currency manipulation by these institutions, and many people everywhere are voting with their feet. The CRA's initiative could well end up ten years from now with the famous adage, 'What were they thinking?' Frankly, I don't think bitcoins are practical because you you cannot make change with them though I can see exchanges with one half of a bitcoin in the future. Perhaps bitcoin bytes of .01 are not far off. As we Canadians are fond of saying, "Only in Canada, eh?" None of this is to suggest that bitcoin-based transactions are or should be exempt from online sales taxes—just that collecting them presents a new challenge. On the one hand, this could play out badly for Bitcoin if the ambiguity discourages retailers from adopting the tender. On the other hand, it also creates the possibility of a loophole. “Oops,” the businesses will tell the states. “We can’t collect this tax for you because the customer paid in bitcoins and we don’t know where he or she lives.” Such a loophole would be a good reason for retailers and consumers alike to start flocking to bitcoins. It’s not clear what Congress could do to close the loop. If it tried, it would probably have to mention virtual currencies explicitly in the legislation, perhaps by setting a single national sales tax for all bitcoin-based purchases. Ironically, either outcome would likely help bitcoin gain, er, currency. Much as the Treasury Department cleared up legal uncertainty surrounding Bitcoin when it made its policy statement on it last month, a similar move by Congress would clarify things even more. That’d be a good thing for Bitcoin. As one widely read analysis of the currency explains, legal uncertainty has been one of the bigger obstacles to wider adoption. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: kjj on April 30, 2013, 01:45:40 PM Frankly, I don't think bitcoins are practical because you you cannot make change with them though I can see exchanges with one half of a bitcoin in the future. Perhaps bitcoin bytes of .01 are not far off. ??? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Killdozer on April 30, 2013, 03:04:27 PM Well what did you expect? If you deal in any other currency than Canadian (dollars?) you must pay taxes, so why not so with Bitcoin?
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: syn999 on April 30, 2013, 06:02:32 PM man, i can see revolutions happening around the world in 100 years. completely new government, new currency and same banking system
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: plutuswd on April 30, 2013, 07:38:33 PM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. This should be seen as a huge victory for bit coin. The Government of Canada has just officially recognized bitcoins and has stated that they want a slice of the action. Now we just need to deal with the criminal cabal of bankers that are going to do everything in their power to subvert and undermine the currency. http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/27/bitcoin-canada-banks/ "For whatever reason, many in Canada’s small but fast growing Bitcoin community are suddenly dealing with the same problem: The banks have decided they don’t like the cryptocurrency and they’re shutting down some of the accounts of businesses that deal in it." Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eich on April 30, 2013, 07:58:14 PM Well what did you expect? If you deal in any other currency than Canadian (dollars?) you must pay taxes, so why not so with Bitcoin? Why not bitcoin? Because taxation is theft. The only reason they want to tax it is because they cant help but extort money from their cattle. Any time they see someone trying to break free from their scheme, they put systems in place to prevent others from doing it. Its high tech slavery, where you let the slave pick and choose their job and place to live, making them more productive to the slave owner. Once something like zerocoin comes out and the ledger is nothing but a big washing machine, how are they going to tax it? as long as you don't deal in their garbage fiat, how could they tax you? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuantPlus on April 30, 2013, 08:48:14 PM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. "Canadian Tire Money" cannot be converted to Canadian $$$... So it's not a currency... it's just a discount coupon. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: zeroday on April 30, 2013, 09:00:56 PM Consequently, exchanging World-Of-Warcraft Gold to Diablo III Gold is speculation, buying items in MMORPG for in-game virtual currency is barter.
Oh my god! Millions of online players are now tax evading criminals! Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eich on April 30, 2013, 09:06:59 PM Consequently, exchanging World-Of-Warcraft Gold to Diablo III Gold is speculation, buying items in MMORPG for in-game virtual currency is barter. Oh my god! Millions of online players are now tax evading criminals! BAahahahahhaa!! http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo142/richter343/gif%20files/hangover-1.gif PShhhhh!! Man i love circumventing governments. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: plutuswd on April 30, 2013, 09:09:49 PM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. "Canadian Tire Money" cannot be converted to Canadian $$$... So it's not a currency... it's just a discount coupon. Yes it can. I have traded people for canadian tire money in the past. I gas up there and got a discount by buying their cdn tire money. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: plutuswd on April 30, 2013, 09:11:53 PM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. "Canadian Tire Money" cannot be converted to Canadian $$$... So it's not a currency... it's just a discount coupon. Go to the currency museum at the bank of Canada in Ottawa. You will be surprised by the number of companies and municipalities that issued their own scripts. This is not a new idea, it's just a new method of doing a very old idea. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: gogxmagog on April 30, 2013, 10:17:58 PM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. "Canadian Tire Money" cannot be converted to Canadian $$$... So it's not a currency... it's just a discount coupon. I've used canadian tire money at 3 different places that accepted it on par. A bar and 2 cafes. The owners had work to do on their bricks and mortar business and gladly accepted the Canadian Tire bux. Also I have seen pawnshops that will buy them at a percentage of face value. The older denominations (half cent, third-of-a-cent, discontinued in the 70s) are highly collectible and worth quite a bit. Its one of my fav alt-currencies, although, I believe they discontinued it a few years back, didn't they? I still have a 5 cent can tire note in my wallet, and when I'm traveling I like to troll new friends from foreign lands by showing it to them and telling them the guy pictured on the reverse is "The King of Canada; Angus McTavish" good for teh lulz! Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: gogxmagog on April 30, 2013, 10:21:39 PM and, revenue canada will only be able to tax bitcoiners at the point of fiat-to-btc, or bitcoin-to-fiat exchange. Dont use the exchanges and you wont be visible to them.
gotta go change my avatar to the canadian tire money scottsman now ;-) Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Bitware on May 01, 2013, 04:43:46 AM http://www.gnucash.org/
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on May 01, 2013, 06:33:43 AM http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/04/30/could-paypal-be-on-horizon-for-bitcoin/
Paypal approval and tax rules sees it developing Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: RenegadeMind on May 01, 2013, 10:09:08 AM Well what did you expect? If you deal in any other currency than Canadian (dollars?) you must pay taxes, so why not so with Bitcoin? Why not bitcoin? Because taxation is theft. The only reason they want to tax it is because they cant help but extort money from their cattle. Any time they see someone trying to break free from their scheme, they put systems in place to prevent others from doing it. Its high tech slavery, where you let the slave pick and choose their job and place to live, making them more productive to the slave owner. Once something like zerocoin comes out and the ledger is nothing but a big washing machine, how are they going to tax it? as long as you don't deal in their garbage fiat, how could they tax you? Yes. That. +1 The other thing is that only CAD can be used to pay taxes in Canada. BTC isn't "legal tender" for taxes. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuantPlus on May 01, 2013, 12:32:55 PM http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/04/30/could-paypal-be-on-horizon-for-bitcoin/ Paypal approval and tax rules sees it developing This is huge and deserves it's own thread... EBay/Paypal is saying, "This is inevitable... let's be early adopter". Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuantPlus on May 01, 2013, 12:36:34 PM Well what did you expect? If you deal in any other currency than Canadian (dollars?) you must pay taxes, so why not so with Bitcoin? Why not bitcoin? Because taxation is theft. The only reason they want to tax it is because they cant help but extort money from their cattle. Any time they see someone trying to break free from their scheme, they put systems in place to prevent others from doing it. Its high tech slavery, where you let the slave pick and choose their job and place to live, making them more productive to the slave owner. Once something like zerocoin comes out and the ledger is nothing but a big washing machine, how are they going to tax it? as long as you don't deal in their garbage fiat, how could they tax you? Yes. That. +1 The other thing is that only CAD can be used to pay taxes in Canada. BTC isn't "legal tender" for taxes. You guys sort of have it backwards. The ability to pay taxes and stay out of jail... Is the Big Thing that gives all Fiat Currencies real Intrinsic Value... Unless you are a hobo and don't have to worry about stuff like family, house, car, college, etc... Really, this thread is like denying that Death exists. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: morningtime on May 01, 2013, 03:19:55 PM Bitcoins bought and sold for speculative purposes are subject to captial gains or income taxes, depending on the specifics of the case, the agency says http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/04/29/canada-to-tax-bitcoin-transactions/ Your topic title reads "taxing transactions", but your explanation refers to "taxing gains from speculation", which is really not the same. Canada is not going to tax "transactions", but your profits from handling Bitcoin. In The Netherlands, where I live, this is already the case, because Bitcoins follow existing tax laws. If I make a 100 EUR profit from trading Bitcoins, I will pay income tax on that 100 EUR. That's not strange to me at all. I would find it strange if Canada did not tax your profits. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: justusranvier on May 01, 2013, 06:07:31 PM The ability to pay taxes and stay out of jail... That's such a beautifully evil phrase. You've managed to completely disconnect the perpetrators from their crimes and instead attribute those crimes to an impersonal and unalterable law of nature. The entire post is a brilliant example of providing linguistic cover for sociopaths.Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eich on May 01, 2013, 06:52:10 PM Well what did you expect? If you deal in any other currency than Canadian (dollars?) you must pay taxes, so why not so with Bitcoin? Why not bitcoin? Because taxation is theft. The only reason they want to tax it is because they cant help but extort money from their cattle. Any time they see someone trying to break free from their scheme, they put systems in place to prevent others from doing it. Its high tech slavery, where you let the slave pick and choose their job and place to live, making them more productive to the slave owner. Once something like zerocoin comes out and the ledger is nothing but a big washing machine, how are they going to tax it? as long as you don't deal in their garbage fiat, how could they tax you? Yes. That. +1 The other thing is that only CAD can be used to pay taxes in Canada. BTC isn't "legal tender" for taxes. You guys sort of have it backwards. The ability to pay taxes and stay out of jail... Is the Big Thing that gives all Fiat Currencies real Intrinsic Value... Unless you are a hobo and don't have to worry about stuff like family, house, car, college, etc... Really, this thread is like denying that Death exists. Wow.. Quote The ability to pay taxes and stay out of jail... Someone tells you you have to pay them or they come cage you up, and if you resist they kill you. You're such a statist that you see this as ok? If I do it to you, Its called extortion and theft. I never agreed to that, did you? Quote Is the Big Thing that gives all Fiat Currencies real Intrinsic Value... What gives fiat intrinsic value is the fact that its accepted for everything. "all debts public and private", including taxes. fiat is a debt instrument with no REAL value and therefore, only serves the state. Quote Unless you are a hobo and don't have to worry about stuff like family, house, car, college, etc... Isn't this what bitcoin is for? Its the family, house, car, college, etc..., minus funding the coercive state that only uses that money to further its own agenda! I cant believe this guy opened up with "The ability to pay taxes and stay out of jail...". Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Kaiji on May 01, 2013, 08:39:51 PM Just curious, do Forex traders get taxed from trading different fiat currencies? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: repentance on May 01, 2013, 10:11:44 PM and, revenue canada will only be able to tax bitcoiners at the point of fiat-to-btc, or bitcoin-to-fiat exchange. Dont use the exchanges and you wont be visible to them. gotta go change my avatar to the canadian tire money scottsman now ;-) It's not quite that simple. If mainstream services start accepting Bitcoin, then those services can be required to disgorge information in the same way that PayPal and eBay already disgorge information about the transactions (both home and foreign currency) of their customers to taxation authorities in some jurisdictions. Spending BTC can be just as much a point of vulnerability as exchanging it, especially when it becomes possible to spend on it major purchases which involve record-keeping such as cars and property (taxation authorities already check these types of registers if they think people may be evading taxes). A lifestyle which is inconsistent with declared income is a good way to get the attention of a number of different authorities. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on May 02, 2013, 02:41:18 AM Bitcoins bought and sold for speculative purposes are subject to captial gains or income taxes, depending on the specifics of the case, the agency says http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/04/29/canada-to-tax-bitcoin-transactions/ Your topic title reads "taxing transactions", but your explanation refers to "taxing gains from speculation", which is really not the same. Canada is not going to tax "transactions", but your profits from handling Bitcoin. In The Netherlands, where I live, this is already the case, because Bitcoins follow existing tax laws. If I make a 100 EUR profit from trading Bitcoins, I will pay income tax on that 100 EUR. That's not strange to me at all. I would find it strange if Canada did not tax your profits. Your right I should have clarified the topic name properly, Bitcoin is taxing capital gains from selling bitcoins the transactions themselves are not being taxed but the net profit earned. I am uncertain whether that also applies to a capital loss but assume it probably would if gains are taxable. If you run a business in bitcoins however it will be treated as income earned from transcations not as a capital gain/ investment risk. Hence an income tax. However that said relating to the ebay and paypal developments at a certain point although not currently it may include transactions as well, at point of sale so the tax is taken then. The agency told the CBC that two tax rules apply to the digital currency, depending on how it’s used. Barter transaction rules apply to bitcoins used for goods or services, according to the report. Bitcoins bought and sold for speculative purposes are subject to captial gains or income taxes, depending on the specifics of the case, the agency says. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuestionAuthority on May 02, 2013, 02:55:19 AM I bet Terrance and Phillip are behind all this!
Canada is doing Bitcoin a big favor. Taxation is another big step in making Bitcoin mainstream and will assist in government acquiescence. If the gov shares in the gravy then it’s all good. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Hippie Tech on May 02, 2013, 07:40:41 AM Waaat ?! Plz change your nik to 'DontQuestionAuthority'. lol
The only thing claiming BTC income on your tax return will do is make it easy for the gov't to round us up, if/when they decide crypto currencies are a bad thing. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Bitcoin Oz on May 02, 2013, 09:32:57 AM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. "Canadian Tire Money" cannot be converted to Canadian $$$... So it's not a currency... it's just a discount coupon. Someone used to exchange tire money for bitcoin.... Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Hippie Tech on May 02, 2013, 06:07:21 PM I'm excited to see how they're going to pull it off. I mean, if it's a measly "You should do it", I see many issues springing up in the future; they may not know who's avoiding taxes, but they'll see clear as day taxes are being avoided. Then they have fire power to campaign against the use of Bitcoin. That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. "Canadian Tire Money" cannot be converted to Canadian $$$... So it's not a currency... it's just a discount coupon. Someone used to exchange tire money for bitcoin.... Thats b/c it is one of the first alt-currencies ever introduced. If the gov't decides to clamp down on BTC, then they should also do the same and account for ALL the crappy tire money ever printed. The accounting nightmare, eg. millions of T-slips, should be enough to make them leave Bitcoin alone. lol Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eich on May 02, 2013, 09:13:05 PM Lets say i have 100 BTC and im looking for some USD. You have 10,000 USD that you are willing to trade. I launder my BTC, send them to you, and you hand me 10,000 USD.
You think im going to fill out a 1099 for this? you have to be out of your f*&$ing mind. If you sit there and fill out a 1099 and willingly give your money to someone whos trying to extort money from you, you belong in line at the slaughterhouse. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on May 02, 2013, 10:56:20 PM Lets say i have 100 BTC and im looking for some USD. You have 10,000 USD that you are willing to trade. I launder my BTC, send them to you, and you hand me 10,000 USD. You think im going to fill out a 1099 for this? you have to be out of your f*&$ing mind. If you sit there and fill out a 1099 and willingly give your money to someone whos trying to extort money from you, you belong in line at the slaughterhouse. Likely would not get caught Unless FINCEN starts planting people like they do to drug dealers for bitcoin http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/05/02/irs-takes-a-bite-out-of-bitcoin/ The IRS already gets a piece where you swap one product or service for another, as the IRS explains at its Bartering Tax Center. Soon the IRS may have a Bitcoin Center too. The Treasury unit called FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, already has rules about Bitcoin and the IRS is likely to follow. Although they care about the big ones like you got a Ferrari bought a million dollar house and only declared 50,000 in income and are 22. :) Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eich on May 03, 2013, 04:01:20 PM Lets say i have 100 BTC and im looking for some USD. You have 10,000 USD that you are willing to trade. I launder my BTC, send them to you, and you hand me 10,000 USD. You think im going to fill out a 1099 for this? you have to be out of your f*&$ing mind. If you sit there and fill out a 1099 and willingly give your money to someone whos trying to extort money from you, you belong in line at the slaughterhouse. Likely would not get caught Unless FINCEN starts planting people like they do to drug dealers for bitcoin http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/05/02/irs-takes-a-bite-out-of-bitcoin/ The IRS already gets a piece where you swap one product or service for another, as the IRS explains at its Bartering Tax Center. Soon the IRS may have a Bitcoin Center too. The Treasury unit called FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, already has rules about Bitcoin and the IRS is likely to follow. Although they care about the big ones like you got a Ferrari bought a million dollar house and only declared 50,000 in income and are 22. :) IRS takes a bite out of bitcoin. really? where? Thats a bunch of Bla Bla Bla because they cant enforce it unless you are a moron. I send you 10 BTC: it comes from HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH and it goes to HEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHEHEHHE Neither me nor you traded anything. the wallets held the bitcoin the entire time. it could have been me that sent that BTC or it could have been my grandmother. and who did the BTC make richer? HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHE is not a person. Unless you throw IRS parties at your house, nobody is ever going to know you now have a bad ass flat screen tv in your living room. What if 500 people share 1 wallet? What, are they going to tax the computer? Most definitely you wouldn't get caught unless you're a good little slave and declare everything you have to the IRS. If you make yourself stand out like that then you brought it upon yourself and the state is coming to steal your property. My bet is, something is going to blow up or some mass murder is going to occur where they will say that all weapons, or whatever, were purchased from silk road or some other awesome free market with bitcoins. There's the excuse. only a matter of time. haven't you noticed that everyone associated with bitcoins is a "hacker" now?? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on May 03, 2013, 09:19:48 PM Lets say i have 100 BTC and im looking for some USD. You have 10,000 USD that you are willing to trade. I launder my BTC, send them to you, and you hand me 10,000 USD. You think im going to fill out a 1099 for this? you have to be out of your f*&$ing mind. If you sit there and fill out a 1099 and willingly give your money to someone whos trying to extort money from you, you belong in line at the slaughterhouse. Likely would not get caught Unless FINCEN starts planting people like they do to drug dealers for bitcoin http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/05/02/irs-takes-a-bite-out-of-bitcoin/ The IRS already gets a piece where you swap one product or service for another, as the IRS explains at its Bartering Tax Center. Soon the IRS may have a Bitcoin Center too. The Treasury unit called FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, already has rules about Bitcoin and the IRS is likely to follow. Although they care about the big ones like you got a Ferrari bought a million dollar house and only declared 50,000 in income and are 22. :) IRS takes a bite out of bitcoin. really? where? Thats a bunch of Bla Bla Bla because they cant enforce it unless you are a moron. I send you 10 BTC: it comes from HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH and it goes to HEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHEHEHHE Neither me nor you traded anything. the wallets held the bitcoin the entire time. it could have been me that sent that BTC or it could have been my grandmother. and who did the BTC make richer? HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHE is not a person. Unless you throw IRS parties at your house, nobody is ever going to know you now have a bad ass flat screen tv in your living room. What if 500 people share 1 wallet? What, are they going to tax the computer? Most definitely you wouldn't get caught unless you're a good little slave and declare everything you have to the IRS. If you make yourself stand out like that then you brought it upon yourself and the state is coming to steal your property. My bet is, something is going to blow up or some mass murder is going to occur where they will say that all weapons, or whatever, were purchased from silk road or some other awesome free market with bitcoins. There's the excuse. only a matter of time. haven't you noticed that everyone associated with bitcoins is a "hacker" now?? Dunno some IRS guy is like I want to buy 50,000 in BTC meet me at this shady place so I can hand you the cash personally Bam IRS lol And well the hackers are smarter than the average joe so it might make us cooler if we advertise it well :) Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eich on May 04, 2013, 04:34:26 PM Lets say i have 100 BTC and im looking for some USD. You have 10,000 USD that you are willing to trade. I launder my BTC, send them to you, and you hand me 10,000 USD. You think im going to fill out a 1099 for this? you have to be out of your f*&$ing mind. If you sit there and fill out a 1099 and willingly give your money to someone whos trying to extort money from you, you belong in line at the slaughterhouse. Likely would not get caught Unless FINCEN starts planting people like they do to drug dealers for bitcoin http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/05/02/irs-takes-a-bite-out-of-bitcoin/ The IRS already gets a piece where you swap one product or service for another, as the IRS explains at its Bartering Tax Center. Soon the IRS may have a Bitcoin Center too. The Treasury unit called FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, already has rules about Bitcoin and the IRS is likely to follow. Although they care about the big ones like you got a Ferrari bought a million dollar house and only declared 50,000 in income and are 22. :) IRS takes a bite out of bitcoin. really? where? Thats a bunch of Bla Bla Bla because they cant enforce it unless you are a moron. I send you 10 BTC: it comes from HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH and it goes to HEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHEHEHHE Neither me nor you traded anything. the wallets held the bitcoin the entire time. it could have been me that sent that BTC or it could have been my grandmother. and who did the BTC make richer? HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHE is not a person. Unless you throw IRS parties at your house, nobody is ever going to know you now have a bad ass flat screen tv in your living room. What if 500 people share 1 wallet? What, are they going to tax the computer? Most definitely you wouldn't get caught unless you're a good little slave and declare everything you have to the IRS. If you make yourself stand out like that then you brought it upon yourself and the state is coming to steal your property. My bet is, something is going to blow up or some mass murder is going to occur where they will say that all weapons, or whatever, were purchased from silk road or some other awesome free market with bitcoins. There's the excuse. only a matter of time. haven't you noticed that everyone associated with bitcoins is a "hacker" now?? Dunno some IRS guy is like I want to buy 50,000 in BTC meet me at this shady place so I can hand you the cash personally Bam IRS lol And well the hackers are smarter than the average joe so it might make us cooler if we advertise it well :) Yeah, sting operations will probably be the only way. but even that can be avoided. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: jdbtracker on May 04, 2013, 04:53:54 PM Consequently, exchanging World-Of-Warcraft Gold to Diablo III Gold is speculation, buying items in MMORPG for in-game virtual currency is barter. Oh my god! Millions of online players are now tax evading criminals! Yup... All of them Criminals, have you seen the FINCEN Guidelines? It's a super broad guideline... it practically makes anyone who deals with game money a money launderer... depends on how bad they want to mess with you; This makes it very difficult to use in court... the absurdness would be shot down in a Canadian court. Canadian courts have the right to question, dubious laws. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on May 04, 2013, 04:59:23 PM Back to monopoly money ;D
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Hippie Tech on May 04, 2013, 05:04:25 PM Consequently, exchanging World-Of-Warcraft Gold to Diablo III Gold is speculation, buying items in MMORPG for in-game virtual currency is barter. Oh my god! Millions of online players are now tax evading criminals! Yup... All of them Criminals, have you seen the FINCEN Guidelines? It's a super broad guideline... it practically makes anyone who deals with game money a money launderer... depends on how bad they want to mess with you; This makes it very difficult to use in court... the absurdness would be shot down in a Canadian court. Canadian courts have the right to question, dubious laws. We have the right to question.. that doesn't mean they will actually listen. Canada has been the nwo/usa/un's bottom bitch for some time. No public or legal protest/action will change this unless we succeed in implementing an outright boycott of their financial, political and other systems. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: jdbtracker on May 04, 2013, 05:58:47 PM Well I have read the Thread and I"m thinking about the ultimate end game.
This is what I know about Bitcoin; It is traceable if someone observes the movement from the ISPs, so not absolutely anonymous, but you can always use TOR. :) The Canadian government has a Bitcoin clone: MintChip... it's ready to roll, this tax announcement is the pre-emptive strike; banks can't stop something backed by the Canadian government, FINCEN will have to take this into account. MintChip is legal within Canada for paying taxes. If governments wish to extend their life, they will have to build their own Bitcoin clone for their territory. Centralized exchanges are traceable and must report their transactions, so capital gains will apply to people exchanging their bitcoins. Since Bitcoin is untraceable by a regular business(ISPs can track it) it can only be taxed by the business, this will eventually create a business location taxation scheme, F the source of the cash, our resources were used to make it, and these businesses fall under our jurisdiction; There is no way around this. Bitcoin is unstoppable, and can only be controlled at it's choke points, businesses. Bitcoin transactions between people cannot be effectively traced so only at these choke points can it be taxed. Declaring your Bitcoin income is quite easy when you are being paid in bitcoins, the government knows you got paid and will take their taxes off at the point that you earned them. Decentralized systems built on top of Bitcoin cannot be taxed, they are automated systems built on code, but sooner or later you have to buy food from a business, so you will pay taxes off your p2p Corporation income in the jurisdiction that the business is located. This creates an incentive for governments to build infrastructure to support and increase the efficiency of the businesses that fall under their jurisdiction to provide the resources they need to maintain their income from taxation, e.g. Better roads, Fibre optic cable to reach the most remote areas of their territory, better power infrastructure to facilitate the movement of physical resources. This will create a resource based economy. The system that will eventually be created is one where governments are determined to allow their citizens to make a living so that they may receive the taxes from consumption; Businesses too must purchase resources to grow, point of sale taxation. This will eventually slowly but methodically increase the running efficiency of the governments themselves by forcing them to limit stupid and useless laws creation, they will have to begin running the government as a business intent on increasing their citizens purchasing power,safety and health... can't tax you if your dead. you may wonder what if the people begin to use Encryption Networks(TOR) or Decentralized systems(classifieds,ripple), maybe even 3D printing hubs? Encryption Networks: Can't, taxed at point of sale. Decentralized Barter System:e.g. Kijiji; No taxation possible at point of sale; can't be monitored. but resources consumed can be taxed; 3D printing: Taxation of resources extracted from the territory Combined system using all the above: Taxation only possible at point of Recycling or Mining extraction(orbital satellites, surveys have mapped most deposits on the planet) Eventually home extractors will make resources 100% recyclable... end of governments as we know them, taxation impossible, regulation impossible open source governments will take care of infrastructure, security, and health of the population. The collective will decide the fate of humanity. End game if p2p begins to rule the planet, end of all modern corporation/governments/systems as we know them; Resources will be distributed on a need to extract basis, the scarcity of the resources will determine what you are able to print on your 3D printer, The collective of a jurisdiction will decide what to built and when if the resources are available, infinite growth of the human race... The Golden age of Earth begins. Yup I know long... but thinking long term. I might be wrong though, there are always selfish people who will find a way to dominate others in one way or another... we could build a blockchain for that too. :) Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: freedomno1 on May 04, 2013, 10:29:38 PM Well I have read the Thread and I"m thinking about the ultimate end game. This is what I know about Bitcoin; It is traceable if someone observes the movement from the ISPs, so not absolutely anonymous, but you can always use TOR. :) Yep theirs some shady stuff on tor too but that's off topic :) The Canadian government has a Bitcoin clone: MintChip... it's ready to roll, this tax announcement is the pre-emptive strike; banks can't stop something backed by the Canadian government, FINCEN will have to take this into account. MintChip is legal within Canada for paying taxes. If governments wish to extend their life, they will have to build their own Bitcoin clone for their territory. MintChip I heard about it that's likely why we don't mind the Bitcoin coming out as Canada was and is preparing something similar Centralized exchanges are traceable and must report their transactions, so capital gains will apply to people exchanging their bitcoins. Agree with you mate those locations will probably where fees are taken 3% on Cavirtex etc Since Bitcoin is untraceable by a regular business(ISPs can track it) it can only be taxed by the business, this will eventually create a business location taxation scheme, F the source of the cash, our resources were used to make it, and these businesses fall under our jurisdiction; There is no way around this. Bitcoin is unstoppable, and can only be controlled at it's choke points, businesses. I hope so, If internet regulation laws are kept anonymous theirs also the possibility as governments have been constantly trying to do of tracking every single users ISP location and address and watching what their up too. Makes us citizens need to be constantly vigilant of new legislation Bitcoin transactions between people cannot be effectively traced so only at these choke points can it be taxed. Declaring your Bitcoin income is quite easy when you are being paid in bitcoins, the government knows you got paid and will take their taxes off at the point that you earned them. Well maybe not on earning but on sale if you don't declare your mining rigs not sure if they can find them. But yah between people unless a sting operation occurs they can't effectively or they stalk IRC and localbitcoins/ Build up a database of all addresses that trade in Bitcoin track the ones with the biggest trades trace the ISP find if they paid taxes lol. Which they will do only if they can turn a profit :) Decentralized systems built on top of Bitcoin cannot be taxed, they are automated systems built on code, but sooner or later you have to buy food from a business, so you will pay taxes off your p2p Corporation income in the jurisdiction that the business is located. This creates an incentive for governments to build infrastructure to support and increase the efficiency of the businesses that fall under their jurisdiction to provide the resources they need to maintain their income from taxation, e.g. Better roads, Fibre optic cable to reach the most remote areas of their territory, better power infrastructure to facilitate the movement of physical resources. This will create a resource based economy. The system that will eventually be created is one where governments are determined to allow their citizens to make a living so that they may receive the taxes from consumption; Businesses too must purchase resources to grow, point of sale taxation. This will eventually slowly but methodically increase the running efficiency of the governments themselves by forcing them to limit stupid and useless laws creation, they will have to begin running the government as a business intent on increasing their citizens purchasing power,safety and health... can't tax you if your dead. Sort of like original fiat building a new country/trade system although their will still be silly laws but at least we get 30% OF Mozzerela Cheese so our pizzas will be cheaper goes to make a topic on that later :) 10000 Bit pizza now with 30% more cheese lol http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/pizza-makers-to-get-a-break-on-mozzarella-prices-with-new-classification-1.1265364 you may wonder what if the people begin to use Encryption Networks(TOR) or Decentralized systems(classifieds,ripple), maybe even 3D printing hubs? Encryption Networks: Can't, taxed at point of sale. Decentralized Barter System:e.g. Kijiji; No taxation possible at point of sale; can't be monitored. but resources consumed can be taxed; 3D printing: Taxation of resources extracted from the territory Combined system using all the above: Taxation only possible at point of Recycling or Mining extraction(orbital satellites, surveys have mapped most deposits on the planet) Eventually home extractors will make resources 100% recyclable... end of governments as we know them, taxation impossible, regulation impossible open source governments will take care of infrastructure, security, and health of the population. The collective will decide the fate of humanity. End game if p2p begins to rule the planet, end of all modern corporation/governments/systems as we know them; Resources will be distributed on a need to extract basis, the scarcity of the resources will determine what you are able to print on your 3D printer, The collective of a jurisdiction will decide what to built and when if the resources are available, infinite growth of the human race... The Golden age of Earth begins. Yup I know long... but thinking long term. I might be wrong though, there are always selfish people who will find a way to dominate others in one way or another... we could build a blockchain for that too. :) Well if p2p rules break internet back to currency :D Nice reply though agree with you Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: MarlboroMan on May 04, 2013, 11:00:54 PM Guys you cannot trust canada they are known to ripoff investors
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Gleb Gamow on March 05, 2016, 11:35:25 PM That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal. https://www.linkedin.com/in/hammiehill https://i.imgur.com/2r3ZKsd.jpg Hammie Hill owned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forzani_Group. Quote In 2011, Canadian Tire bought Forzani for $771 million, and has since embarked on a large scale brand restructuring. Canadian Tire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire Quote The retailer is known for its Canadian Tire money, a loyalty program first introduced in 1958, where customers are provided with coupons resembling paper money worth 0.5% of their purchase that can be used in subsequent purchases as scrip at Canadian Tire stores and gas stations. Which begs the question: Is Satoshi Nakamoto Canadian? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: c789 on March 06, 2016, 04:08:03 AM I see this as a good sign. If they're willing to tax it, that means they are recognizing it as a currency (or less likely, as a a commodity like the US SEC). If they tax it, that will further legitimize BTC. Don't get me wrong - I hate excessive or even moderate taxes, but a little is necessary for a government to function.
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: l8nit3 on March 06, 2016, 04:38:29 AM As a canadian personally, Im not a big fan of the idea, I think taxing btc/fiat conversions, you'll see candian adoption slow. A big part the draw of BTC is the pseudo-anonymity and lack of taxes, plus ease of moving money country to country. As soon as we start getting taxed by governments, were straying from the original idea of decentralization IMHO. (I realize MANY would argue BTC is not decentralized at all, but discussion for another day)
Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: aso118 on March 06, 2016, 07:33:14 AM As a canadian personally, Im not a big fan of the idea, I think taxing btc/fiat conversions, you'll see candian adoption slow. A big part the draw of BTC is the pseudo-anonymity and lack of taxes, plus ease of moving money country to country. As soon as we start getting taxed by governments, were straying from the original idea of decentralization IMHO. (I realize MANY would argue BTC is not decentralized at all, but discussion for another day) I don't think it will particularly slow things down. The Canadian government has just explicitly spelt out that gains on bitcoin would be taxable and they have done it way back in 2013. Even in countries which are silent on bitcoin, taxation experts would tell you that the tax treatment would be the same (treat bitcoin as an investment and pay taxes on gains). Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: smiles on March 08, 2016, 06:46:40 AM We have the right to private property... Negative. No property rights in Canada. Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Kakmakr on March 08, 2016, 07:41:12 AM From all the legislation proposals I have seen so far, this makes the most sense. In this way, merchants knows how to tackle the barter taxation and can adhere to that and make the decision to accept the currency much easier. The Bitcoin traders and speculators also know how to declare their income and profit and pay Capital Gains accordingly. The normal individual tax payer, can now also use the currency with Blockchain proof of income and expenses and it will be easier to declare your tax at the end of each financial year.
Pay your taxes, they will find you in the end, if you don't. ^hmmmm^ Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Eugenar on March 08, 2016, 07:46:28 AM at least they dont shut all banks accounts Some of the banks have already closed some Canadian exchanges accounts. They are afraid of Bitcoin and what it means to their fees or Nickle and Diming customers to death. The banks have not prepared to take the advantage of bitcoin and it is quite new. So they will stifle the competition. After they know they can make more profits with bitcoin, they will use it. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuestionAuthority on March 08, 2016, 03:11:46 PM We have the right to private property... Negative. No property rights in Canada. Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982. Really? No property rights at all? What keeps Terrance and Phillip from forcing you to take a pound of back bacon and some jellies as payment for taking your house away? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: Carlsen on March 08, 2016, 03:36:48 PM This thread slept for three years since post #43.
Have there been any development during that time in canada? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuestionAuthority on March 08, 2016, 04:04:18 PM This thread slept for three years since post #43. Have there been any development during that time in canada? No one really cares what happens in Canada. All they want to do is eat Mintchips and jellies. http://merchant.mintchipchallenge.com/assets/images/mintchip_dev_promotion.jpg Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: smiles on March 09, 2016, 12:40:33 AM We have the right to private property... Negative. No property rights in Canada. Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982. Really? No property rights at all? What keeps Terrance and Phillip from forcing you to take a pound of back bacon and some jellies as payment for taking your house away? A subject can own property at Her Majesty the Queen's good pleasure, and she allows a market in the trade of property, but there is no protected right to such property. For example, if a particular firearm is reclassified as prohibited, you may be required to surrender said firearm without compensation. If the government wants your property, it can take it, and there are many laws that can be invoked to that end. For example, read the Alberta Emergency Management Act. Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: QuestionAuthority on March 09, 2016, 05:21:09 AM We have the right to private property... Negative. No property rights in Canada. Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982. Really? No property rights at all? What keeps Terrance and Phillip from forcing you to take a pound of back bacon and some jellies as payment for taking your house away? A subject can own property at Her Majesty the Queen's good pleasure, and she allows a market in the trade of property, but there is no protected right to such property. For example, if a particular firearm is reclassified as prohibited, you may be required to surrender said firearm without compensation. If the government wants your property, it can take it, and there are many laws that can be invoked to that end. For example, read the Alberta Emergency Management Act. That's pretty scary. I'm sure it's never really happened though, right? Title: Re: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions Post by: RealPhotoshoper on March 09, 2016, 08:07:05 AM It looks like the rules of taxation for bitcoin will soon be taking effect i dont know what the effect of this taxtation of bitcoin trnsaction,is here canadian who can speak directly what really happen there?and what effect of this all?Canada’s Revenue Agency says users of bitcoins are obligated to pay taxes on transactions using the alternative currency, The agency told the CBC that two tax rules apply to the digital currency, depending on how it’s used. Barter transaction rules apply to bitcoins used for goods or services, according to the report. Bitcoins bought and sold for speculative purposes are subject to captial gains or income taxes, depending on the specifics of the case, the agency says http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/04/29/canada-to-tax-bitcoin-transactions/ i hope some countries not follow canada for now,i think this is not a correct time. |
