Bitcoin Forum

The narrative built all these years was that bitcoin is immune to government intervention, to the extent that it will one day overthrow the state..

but ha ha ha

all it took was one small civil war between a  startup called block stream and a bitcoin early adopter and thats all....

 its time for the community to save bitcoin to be on the top ever...

https://i.imgur.com/Hzv9TCl.jpg

ETH will be replaced by Rootstock much easier than ETH taking over Bitcoin :-\

OP and you think Ethereum does not have its own technical problems? It does. It might have worse scaling problems than Bitcoin in the near future. Their blockchain has already become massive if you take how long it has been online into account.

when you don't understand how ethereum lacks the main and the most important factor in cryptocurrncies, and that being the lack of a decentralized decision-making mechanism, there is nothing anybody can say to make you understand how literary any other altcoin has a much bigger chance than ETH has!

This should go to the altcoin section.
It is just another attack and a free advertisement for Ethereum.
They will just do anything to talk about it again when it is being forgotten.
Hell, if it is really the best coin why do you think there are still alts out there that are trying to fill that hole which is missing with both bitcoin and ETH whom you think is the better one.

seems it is much easier to make bold decisions with ethereum...

i am sure ethereum will face difficulty scaling, but would be much easier to change stuff and adapt to demands with ethereum than bitcoin which wasted 2 years of scaling debate..

I am not speaking for ethreum...anyway your point is valid and I will delete that line about ethereum

Bitcoin has really failed to overthrow the banks and the state. And that is because everything we do including our business activities are being monitored and regulated by the state. Bitcoin is in a state wherein it needs to be exchanged for fiat currency in order for us to purchase things and this just implies that bitcoin has not function yet as a currency but rather as a commodity. And the moment we tried to exchange our bitcoin to fiat currency in an exchange the government is already intervening.

No, it is because it was badly designed, that's all.  Bitcoin contains several fundamental design issues.  The most important is ironically what it is touted for to be important: its emission curve, sending out a lot of coins in the beginning, and going down to zero.  That turns bitcoin not into a stable currency, but into a speculative asset.  The second one is proof of work as consensus mechanism, which industrializes and centralizes the system in an industry/customer relationship, instead of a user community.  And finally, the last one is the block chain itself, where everyone needs to know every other transaction in the world in a very specific list in full order.  I would add to that the traceability of bitcoin, which make it a dangerous way of using your money because your spendings are open to the world, graved in stone.  But on top of that, there are religious beliefs in bitcoin that kill it totally: the idea that the number of proxy servers of the unique chain is important, and that therefore, its size should be limited.

It is not the state's fault that a thing that is designed to be a speculative asset with clunky technology based on erroneous economic and game-theoretical beliefs, doesn't replace the worlds' financial system.  However, it will take a maybe big chunk out of speculative finance and at a certain point, banks will love it, especially in combination with its buddies, alt coins, to get money out of the pockets of home-traders and believers.  

But this thing was ill designed to become money, and hence it didn't become money.  Apart from those places where normal money cannot go and it doesn't undergo competition: dark markets and other such things.

In fact, the reaction of states is in many cases surprisingly positive towards including bitcoin in the legal system.  In many countries, it is not illegal to possess crypto.  If you declare them correctly, and you use legal exchanges in a transparent way, bitcoin and other crypto are in fact not stopped by the states.  Nobody stops you from using bitcoin to do payments.  But it is simply not practical, and you are obliged to speculate on bitcoin if you use it, because it has no price stabilizing mechanism (on the contrary, bitcoin has to "rise" with adoption, which is an economically crazy idea for a good currency).  There's no point in using bitcoin as a currency, it's a hassle.

How can it be replaced by something that doesn't even exist yet. Counterparty promised smart contract and ETH-like function on Bitcoin blockchain, yet failed to deliver.

Well bitcoin still stand on top and it is impossible to be on top without any obstacles and I believe bitcoin still the strongest despite all the rumours and incidents, other coin also got their own problem that is why the alt coin still can't become number one in coinmarket and it is not that easy to dethrone bitcoin

Ethereum is the wannabe version of what Bitcoin was 4 years ago. People who do not understand how dangerous centralized decision making is, will waste their money on it and when they realize it, it will be too late. Ethereum was initially developed as a smart contract network and now suddenly people think it is the perfect payment network. ^smile^

Bitcoin will still be the majority of digital currencies in the world today. Errors and negatives that have a big impact that can reduce the popularity of bitcoin.

It's not bitcoin's fault that people like to invest their money on other coins, bitcoin is still a decentralized network/ currency, I bet many of you think decentralized means many miners operating in different parts of the globe, but in reality it means that every one is free to join the mining process at any given time and by doing so can receive the block rewards.
If you have the means and technology to manufacture ASIC machines there is no one stopping you from becoming a major miner, first learn these things and it did was not makes no sense in the title.

Well tried op! You did get our attention but sadly Bitcoin is not going anywhere and your so called Alts well they will disappear soon. Look at the one coin scam. As for your civil war there are differences in all currencies no need to panic, solution will be found. The government cannot track your transactions till you shift money to your bank account, so not a valid point either. And if you don't know Japan has legalized it, Australia I have read here is about to, no news about Alts mate. Buy some satoshi's before you miss the bus. Bitcoin is here to stay forever.

no other coins at the moment can take down bitcoin if not ETH but even so the gap is still very large, also ETH have not much to do with bitcoin, i can't see it as a competitors, in fact they even said that you coudl use bitcoin on their platform...

the dispute about the block size and possible hard fork willnot take down anything, on the contrary will make this community stronger in the long run, investors also know this

Bitcoin is not immune to the government, it is slowly connecting with governments and showing them its potential. Bitcoin's civil war is simply a consideration for development measures.

The reason for your conclusion is best known to you but at the same this time its not bounding on others. The simple fact is nothing is perfect and every alt out there that prides on better than bitcoin cannot be sure they can stand when they face the pressure and volume in which bitcoin faces and if compromising in one area as you are insinuating then I see nothing wrong and hoping bitcoin will still come out top.

the highest price that I saw with altcoins comparing to the value of Bitcoin as of now is around 8 - 10% only, if any altcoin will go near to 50% of the current value of bitcoin maybe I will judge that bitcoin will be dethrone with that altcoin but there is non. This topic seems to only advertise a specific altcoin.

actually it has never been difficult to "dethrone" bitcoin. bitcoin is not perfect!
but the thing you are missing is that nobody ever tried to take its place :)

a lot of altcoins pretended to do it though. but none of them could even come close. in reality when you start using bitcoin and then use altcoins and compare the experience you will understand clearly what i am talking about here.

otherwise yes, standing outside and just reading some script online written by altcoin pumpers and looking at some numbers like the price and the time between blocks, ... would surely look like some altcoin is better than bitcoin.

You idiots better run and keep mining ETH, they said it will become POS to scare new miners and kept mining themselves.
And when it becomes POS only whales benefit, oh why and how could they change the POW to POS without consensus?

Of course they can because they control every thing. $2225 and growing strongly non-stop try to dethrone that.
I'd like to know how would a government track transactions after I use Bitmixer?
Only way is to exchange to fiat for governments to know who you are and take tax from you?
Simply don't convert to fiat or if you do after mixing your coins and receiving fresh coins  no body knows who you were and which coins you had, besides when you obtain Bitcoin you either are mining which is a slow process or you are accumulating, if mining then converting to fiat shouldn't be any issue because it's only a few grands and if you are buying and accumulating then there is no reason to sell why would you sell?

Anyways who and how is dethroning Bitcoin? lol

Nobody says that bitcoin will overthrow the state.
I don`t believe that bitcoin will ever replace fiat money,but i believe that bitcoin will grow and become even stronger.
I don`t care about blockstream.

Actually every altcoins goal is this, I think, lol. But it is too good to be true. It is just a matter of who goes first and one of the pioneer is the bitcoin itself.

It's not fully about stability, it's about safety.  The idea is that as long as people hold their coins, cryptocurrency's value stays the same or goes up.

If Bitcoin ever has a significant role in society, these "design flaws" won't matter as it won't have dramatic drops anymore.  The higher liquidity than being a speculative asset can bring can actually keep it stable, like gold has been for many years.

Let's state that maybe bitcoin will not overthrow the state but as we all can see now is that Bitcoin's value is overthrow every currency in the FIAT world and digital currency world and it's a fact now.

Bitcoin chose adopt to th users demands instead wasting 2 years of time debating for a scaling solution if the was not solved sooner then the users will all faith in bitcoin because of it's delayed transactions that takes days to confirm.
No one will ever be stupid enough to invest big amounts of money to altcoins that is good for short term and that's buggy like ETH.

Which is correct in every aspect of success bitcoin really make it first we wont be able to say when or how but its every developers dream to be more successful than btc but it will only time can tell as of now lets enjoy the bitcoin party..

What do you mean by rootstock,if there is a much better solution for contract based solution then ETH can be replaced but to replace bitcoin it is really not that easy unless and until the scaling issue consumes it.


For those who are investing in alt coins their only choice is to make money and nothing else,every investor dreams on multiplying his assets ,bet it in bitcoin or in alts.

I think both notions are contradictory.  An asset that is mainly "held" is highly unstable in price, because the fluid part is a small, and hence potentially very variable part of the total amount.

In Fisher's formula, this comes down to:

Q.P = M . V

with V = m1/M + 2 m2/M + 3 m3/M + ... + n mn/M

(mi = set of coins that are spent i times in a year).

If coins are mainly held, then MOST of them are in m0, which doesn't contribute to V.  As such, V is a small number, but which can quickly change, if even a small part of m0 (majority in hodl state) decides to move (into m1, m2, ...).

For instance, if 95% of M is held, in m0, and only 5% is liquid, then a 5% spending from the store m0 can halve the value of a coin ; and a 2.5% extra holding will double the value of a coin.

There's some good reading on the so-called stability of the gold standard (which is what bitcoin as a world-wide currency wants to imitate):

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/why-the-gold-standard-is-the-worlds-worst-economic-idea-in-2-charts/261552/

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gold_standard_(economics)

http://www.nber.org/papers/w10171.pdf

to give a few ideas. 

Of course you can put your tin foil hat on and say that all this "research" is part of the Big Conspiration, but I don't believe that.  It is genuine research.

But that is, on the assumption that bitcoin *already became* the universal money.  Gold has been so for a while because *states decided so*.  However, there's no path for it to *become* universal money if it has to compete with close-to-ideal money (big fiat), being a fluctuating, hoarded speculative asset.

If you are referring to market share then you might be blind and missing how fast Bitcoin is rising in regards to other altcoins.

If you are referring to the recent secret meeting of major mining companies in relation to reaching an agreement about scaling

then start your own major mining company to have a saying and be able to cast a vote and participate in decision making.

You think governments can put a leash on Bitcoin?

You are dead wrong mate, only the true believers shall win, hold on to your Bitcoins and don't listen to trolls, there is nothing wrong with this system

And is working as intended.

I wonder when will be the next unannounced hard fork for ethereum?  8)  :D

What are you talking about, Rootstock doesn't exist ore 'failed' to deliver? To lazy to google, ETH shill ???

They will test in now and release it next month.

https://i.imgur.com/OQSjwRm.png

As I understand it, I believe they will use a sidechain for smart contracts and RSK will be pegged to Bitcoins? I do not know how they will maintain the peg if they intend for RSK to be listed and open to market trading in the exchanges.

Is this some kind of conspiracy theory I never heard of? That doesn’t make any sense. I don’t even understand what you are claiming that happened. Nice meme though. If the government is intervening in bitcoin it looks like their doing what we all want! Making the price skyrocket. So no one should be blaming or complaining to anyone.

You are correct that they use a sidechain.

The peg works really easy: For every RSK token a Bitcoin is frozen on the Bitcoin blockchain (that's publicly verifiable) on an account controlled by several organizations. If you own a RSK token and want a Bitcoin for it, then all you must do is request the Bitcoin that was frozen to create it, to "un-freeze" and be transferred to you. The RSK token will then be burnt (destroyed).  In other words, every RSK token is backed by 1 frozen BTC.

Some people really like to LARP on this board when few people have any idea what the fuck is going on most of the time.
Either way, with the new segwit deal coming up in september I have a feeling that everything is going to end up turning out fine for Bitcoin. They'll solve the scaling issue, they're keeping most of the community on board with it, and there will be increased confidence in the technology as the transaction queue goes down and we stop having full blocks.
Good times await.

But RSK will be traded in the exchanges though. For every 1 BTC it must also be worth 1 RSK. As we have seen the price peg does not always work. USD/USDT has shown as that. So how will RSK maintain the price peg with Bitcoin knowing how crazy the traders sometimes become. RSK could be worth more than Bitcoin and BTC could be worth more RSK depending on the market sentiment.

you are soo wrong

imagine it like a factory the proof of work/difficulty is just the design template of the product(block) on the production line.

its just template that pools have to create a block in a certain way.

the consensus mechanism is the quality assurance staff/network nodes that check and allow through to the network if it meets their criteria.
retailers(merchants/non-pool nodes) are part of the quality assurance process.. if they dont like a block they reject it. and thus that product(block/reward) cant be sold to the retailer(merchant)

pools learn their lesson fast that they made a mistake and wont get paid and so retreat and make things how the network wants.

please go back and take some time to research bitcoin. it seems you gave up too early and got stuck at a one dimensional view thinking nodes are helpless..

The amount of 'angst' for the state of bitcoin concerns me sometimes. The alt coin fan boys treat BTC like Voldemort sometimes, bitcoin was the first mover but doesn't have to be the only one. The different coins serve various functions; although you can argue bitcoin can do alot of it with development, the others already do it, and most of the time, more efficiently. There is a place for all the coins; what's important is overall investment in the crypto sphere. If we build it, they will come ;)

Since the original poster changed the first post it was difficult to know what this was all about, so this is about Ethereum? Ethereum has its own shares of problems, but what happens is since bitcoin and ethereum are completely different then the problems are different too, bitcoin has a problem with the decision making process, ethereum does not have that but it is centralized and to many that is even worst than the problems bitcoin may have.

How has Bitcoin been dethroned exactly? It still looks like the king of the crypto kingdom to me. Its network effect reigns supreme over all of its peasant-filled villages of ALTcoin land. The Bitcoin network is in its worst state (probably) ever with the mempool growing and the ongoing scaling debacle, but even with these issues outstanding Bitcoin is still able to garner enough new money to reach new all time highs.

The only thing that is going to be dethroned is the ALTcoin ICO bubble. Whereas Bitcoin will also suffer a correction itself, probably a large one, but seeing as though it is the king of the crypto kingdom... it will recover. Some of the peasant-filled villages of ALTcoin land will not be so lucky, and will eventually be overtaken by white walkers while sinking into the depths of page 1,000,000,000 of Coin Market Cap.

Bitcoin can never be dethrone as long as there is a lot of people using it and also miners that sustaining the network. Even there is a lot of altcoins you can see the domination of bitcoin in the market by looking at the price move of the altcoins now and they are mostly dumping because of the price rally of bitcoin, so i don't think bitcoin is very easy to dethrone.

never say never.
because that just makes people lazy, give up trying to grow/protect bitcoin because they feel it can never break.

nothing is too big to fail.
all it would take is barry silbert to tell coinbase and bitpay to release merchant tools to make merchants accept litecoins for instance.

then the swing and snowball effect will take place.

im not saying all 5mill+ regular bitcoiners need to jump up and do something but those that do actually care should start thinking critically at the weaknesses and make them strengths and stop thinking of the unicorn utopian dream of fluffy clouds when sitting on their hands

i am laughing at how most people talking about the dethroning, in regards to market cap.. rather than utility.. i think those kind of people should just admit they dont care about anything more then quick fiat profits. and stop pretending they care about bitcoins longevity

the truth is stranger than what it may seem. it may not be ethereum that might actually dethrone bitcoin, somehow bitcoin already is threatened to it but are not looking to some other else below when its marketcap rise like a lightning over a month.