Bitcoin Forum

Due to the increased on-chain tx fees, typical fees has become 0.001-0.002 BTC.

However, poloniex is still able to provide 0.0001 fee withdrawals (which merge a lot of payments together, while having overall 400-500 sat/byte fee, resulting in 0-1 block delay confirmation)

My question is, are they any other (centralized) how wallets where I can keep small amount for daily usage (payments in the range of a few mBTCs)?

I know until recently xapo had free on-chain tx..but now their fees is also in the 0.0005-0.0009 BTC range, which is impractical for $2-5 payments.

if the exchange platform is really taking 10,000 satoshi fee then continue using that as your wallet for small amounts, there are other exchanges that do this too. bittrex and c-cex both take 20,000 satoshi last time i checked but know that using a third party no matter if it is a wallet or an exchange will have risks, they can block your account, they can run away, you can get hacked ,...

also change your "typical" transaction and the highest fees that you have to pay will drop down to 75,000 satoshi instead of what you have been experiencing. that means stop reusing addresses and receiving a log of small transactions.
226 byte * 330 s/b = 74,580 satoshi

Theres no where to go but forcibly pay up the fees on which they do require on making transactions thats why i do make use of blockchain.info when in terms of small transaction and just setting up small fees because i am not on a rush thats why i dont bother if that would takes time but in your case better stick on xapo. Exchange wallets making it as a primary is very risky for me.

Fees are adjustable on most of the wallets, but the point is sending a transaction with a fee below 0.0005 or less than 200 Sat/B would at least take more than 24 hours to get confirmed. Since you only want to keep a small amount for daily usage, try freebitco.in, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1922196.0

You might be aware that it is not a regular wallet, but faucet cum gambling site. Minimum transaction is 0.0003 with a slow transaction fee of 0.00012, but remember slow transactions can take anywhere between 6 to 24 hours to get confirmed.

If you wish to have low fees transaction wallet means you can use multibit wallet. It has 0.0002 btc as default fees for the transaction. You can use any payment processor like bitpay to blockchain to get the amount transacted. I hope multibit is best wallet among all the wallet providers. I have checked the low fees optional wallet in Google search. Most of the site says multibit and bitcoin core is on the top.

If you like centralisation, you could use Coinbase.  They allow free offchain transfers between accounts, but you have to realise that Bitcoin would no longer be a trustless system and you have to believe that Coinbase won't mess around with the numbers in your account.

But there aren't any free onchain solutions that I can think of.  Some gambling sites will cover the fees for you, but they could suspend your account if they suspect you of using it as a wallet.

Inevitably you're going to pay high fees if you want to do normal onchain transactions with other users here.

There is a web based wallet wich is not charging fees for sending transaction. I am using it since long time but never noticed it as i didn't care. I discovered it 2 weeks ago about, when i wanted to know their fees to compare
I don't advice to use freebtco.in as a wallet like someone mentionned above. Seriously it is one of the latest place to use as a wallet to put yout bitcoin.

Why don't you tell us which wallet this is?

Both Coinbase and Xapo were used to be free, but this changed not long ago. Only when you send coins within Coinbase or Xapo it's free, when you send it outside their own network you pay the fee.

You could get the decreased fee through the blockchain wallet through the manual fee option. For the same you need to wait for a longer time period for confirmation. While making the transaction itself it suggests that the fee provided is low, sometimes the transaction might not gets confirmed.

Try to use alts if possible. Pick those alts that are faster and with cheaper fees. You may also try to check some in your place as some countries have local wallet provider that offers fast and cheap transactions internally. Else Poloniex is the cheapest.

Poloniex have fee every time you buy and withdrawals of your bitcoin so not bad with that fees in a exchanger site but they really earn a lot in a fees but i guess all of the transaction have high fee and we cant have a cheap fee because the bitcoin price is increasing in rapid rate so the fees also increases.

Maybe most people like that, do want to be confirmed in the withdrawal, but they do not want to bear the high cost, how fast can peroses, sedangankan they always set a very low cost for it.

i think blockchain is a good decision to get low fee transaction with some risk that it will take some long time to get 1 confirmation. but if the OP can wait his transaction even it is take long time, he can use blockchain

Most wallets will allow the transaction fee to be manually selected. I wouldn't use it on blockchain.info, because the transaction may be bigger than expected and have dust outputs, making the fee/kb and the priority really low. They always change the address for each deposit, so when you withdraw you'll have lots of inputs. Even the recommended fee makes the transactions stuck for a long time in some situations

Try to sell BTC for alts, ie. Ripple is good because of fast transactions.

But not all places that accept Bitcoin will accept Ripple too.

And yo make the conversion you'll have to pay one or two transaction fees(one to send to exchange and other to withdraw).

Unless the site accepts the alt, the problem would only get worse

Bitcoin has become unusable for me. I've been following  iota for years. Most people still dont realize how much different this project is. Its a total new technology, the tangle is a technology after blockchain, a 3.0 of digital currency. No fees, scalibility problems, quantum secured (ternary solution) and perfect designed for IOT. The pressure will be huGe when IOTA enters market. I mean its a game changer. Never seen a project like this before, and I am long time involved  into crypto. Most ICO investors will hold their iotas, still after 1 1/2 years, cause this one is unique.

Actually there is an option to not pay fee at all but you are limited where to send and receive money from, coinbase does not charge fee if the sender and receiver are coinbase's client.

If you are moving the bitcoins from one exchange to another one then the best way is to exchange them in eth or any other altcoin transfer to other exchange and then convert back to bitcoin and hopefully earn a profit if the price gets increased.

first of all the price volatility is terrible in alts, specially Ripple. it can be one thing now and half that amount the other minute.

secondly you will have to pay a lot of fees in the process of exchanging bitcoin to alts anyways so in the end it is not really worth it (a transaction fee to deposit to exchange address and 1 trade fee to trade to alt, 1 alt transaction fee to withdraw) bitcoin fee is not that high

and finally there is nowhere to spend any alts, specially Ripple.

I think there is no way to cheap transaction.  Remember if you are transferring bitcoin, and wanted to change it for altcoin you have to go to an exchange and switch it to altcoin and vice versa.  This will only double your fee.  If your bitcoin is sitting at your desktop wallet, there is no way to have cheap transaction but to adjust the transaction fee at your own convinience since it will affect the confirmation time.

The only option that I can think of right now is indeed poloniex. I remember thinking that they charged quite high withdrawal fees as you know coinbase, and other bitcoin exchanges processed withdrawals free of charge at the time.

However they are the only service still providing the original 0.0001 btc withdrawal fees, but you do have to be very careful as they might run on a fractional reserve and some day have liquidity issues.

Don't forget Mt Gox....

I don't have much idea that how to merge multiple transactions but yes it works well in that sense. In last few weeks I am experiencing the faster confirmation time with the same fees (I am using exchanges) and they might be using this multiple transaction clubbing. Even though current transaction fees are still lower than that of fiat, I think we should find a solution to this issue as soon as possible so that many more people would love to enter in bitcoin.

The moment people in search of cheap payments forget what bitcoin is about...

You will save a few bucks and one day you will wake up and realize that poloniex is gone what all your coins due to a "hack".
Until the tx problem is fixed just stop doing micropayments if you can't afford to.
There is no magical solution or we would all be doing it

You are correct, this is against what bitcoin stands for (decentralization). I'm hoping a mainnet sidechain/lightning solution soon gets into action.

Some others pointed out I can set a low fees in my own wallet. That doesn't work because I still want to have the transaction confirmed at some point! Electrum very well allows me to set a manual fee, but sitting in mempool for a week is not exactly helpful.


I have academic background and have studied bitcoin/segwit/lightning a bit, and really want segwit ASAP, but I don't think inflating node count for UASF is going to help. We need to ensure more than 50% hash power is non-malicious and at least  >10% that is mining segwit blocks for this to work out.

Alts can and will certainly be an option if this present situation doesn't improve in next ~6 months. Holding a few just in case  ::)

I agree, almost all wallets now have transaction fees and that's just the way it is. And most especially when bitcoins price went up a couple of days ago, those wallets you had before which had no fee are charging transactions fees now. As they say, business is business.

I am really sure that non all transactions need to be confirmed into the next 1-3 blocks. For many of them if people pay about the half of the proposed fee their transactions will be confirmed in a decent time. On the other side if some need quick confirmations for everyday micropayments then the most appropriate payment, like some before me post above, is to use any altcoin, say litecoin.

Maybe that's because OP is looking for a way to do transactions of low value? Do you think anyone moving +0.5BTC would be worried about paying fees? There is a huge difference between storing 0.005 BTC and 1 BTC on a exchange.

People should be allowed to do transactions of any amoumt without worrying about paying 50% of this value. in fees.

Its really up to the individual on how he wants to speed up his transaction. If you are in a hurry to get paid or paid someone, then you have to dynamically adjust it your self. But if you are a cheapo guy, then adjust it to your convenience but bear in mind that it may take days to reach bitcoin into your wallet.

Poloniex compilation of various withdrawals is a clever idea and it does helps to reduce the number of inputs needed which is more cost efficient. As you can tell, by grouping various withdrawals together, they would probably need to wait for awhile before they can send that transaction. It is fine if the exchange processes hundreds of transactions per hour.

By using offchain solutions, you can also save on fees. But just like any other online wallets, there is a high chance of your coins being lost due to various incidents. If you don't want to take the risk, use your own desktop wallet and the risk is effectively zeroed out.

Yes, I know coinbase and xapo used to be free. As i said here sometime ago: it is only a matter of time before xapo and coinbase both stop to pay the minners fees for us. Both stopped just fews days after. Both are so big now to take care of the fees.
Imagine 100k transactions *0.0008= 80BTC ~174 000$ that companies are giving away. Money they could spend to hire staff support, specially for coinbase where it's much needed  :D

there is one way to send cheaper transaction fee but you wokd need to move to another token. you may not prefer this but i did do it because after all the person on the other side accepts the token. waves transaction fee is cheaper.

There's no way to get your fee low and fast at the same time. This is the serious problem for bitcoin. The fee is killing us. I usually send just a small amount of btc. Just .01 btc. Then the fee will cut it to .009 because of the miner fee and that's is just a normal fee. What more if you put the fee on priority? Its bad.

I think you can create an account on some popular exchange such as bittrex or poloniex. The withdraw seems very fast and great

Poloniex and others exchanges are able to get a good tax because they send the payments at once, i dont believe you can do this with others services besides exchanges, blockchain allow to send multipayments but they does process each transaction alone.

There are several wallets who let you combine your payments too, blockchain.info is one of them. So if you have several payments to do, you can create 1 single transaction with all payments included.

Storing all your coins in an exchange wont solve the issue,but it is a small amount then you really do not need to worry about storing the coins because it wont hurt you bad,there is no solid solution to bypass the higher transaction fees but only thing you can do is use a light weight wallet and use the minimum transaction fees to get the transaction done,other than that nothing can be done.

If you are moving money between exchanges, you would probably do well to convert to a cheaper, faster confirming coin and convert back after it arrives. Always use the above posted method; it's good hygiene and keeps the network the least congested. It's hard to predict future transactions enough to organize them, so this has limited effectiveness.

Yea I think ripple is not really good choice. Maybe some other altcoin in which you have good trust and knowledge. So you basically invest in it in same way as bitcoin. And off course if you are paying for something the reciever must accept it.

I use Hashnest and the fee there is 0,0002 BTC This is the minimum that I have already met among all that wallets that I know. I heard that Xapo was free from fees at all. Unfortunately I couldn't use this possibility. But today I am satisfied with that fee value that I pay nowadays.

And I'm asking the simple question..
Why?

Right now the fees should be indeed a bit lower because the miners receive rewards, there is also the block issue, so a bit lower might be possible but that doesn't mean you should be able to transfer 10 cents for 1 cent fee.
To be honest as I miner right now I would reject all tx under 0.010 at least until we have a solution in the segwit drama.

Think about the moment when the miners will depend on fees.
If the fees for a block will only be 2$ this will also affect the security of the chain.
You pay 2000$ a day to secure the network , you get security worth 2000$ ...

XAPO charges fees now for sending transactions on outgoing address but still XAPO to XAPO transfers are free of charge and covered by them. Last time, XAPO charges me for around 160,000 satoshis for median transaction and that is ridiculously high. It tooks 8 hours before it was confirmed, it's should just fine if it's confirmed for few hours. If you are satisfied with Hashnest withdrawal fees then just continue using it. As far as my web wallets knowledge concerned, there is no web wallets now that covered transaction fees to an outgoing address.

If Im wrong here, then anyone can enlightened me on this.

There are still cheap transactions but they are very unsecure. You can't know whether this transactions will be ever confirmed or not. It's the best to use wallet where you can control the fee or where the acceptable fees are suggested. I guess this new fees are the price we have to pay for using Bitcoins.

I agree with you. But this is not very good for publicity of cryptocurrencies... BTC is what everyone first hear about in most cases. And you have tons of videos, texts etc. which are promising us almost zero transaction fees. Now imagine someone who makes the first touch with cryptocurrenies, he sends 5 dolars worth of BTC to a friend, and he gets 3 dollars worth of BTC next day? For most people this will be enough to doubt about cryptocurrencies.
I know there are many other cryptocurrenies. But you need some knowledge to choose good altcoin for small tranastions.
I think this can be biggest problem about high fees, probably later there will be other currencies to make small payment and BTC will be more like digital gold. With this fees you can only use it for speculation.

Thank you for suggesting me that wallet to use for lower transaction fees. Before that there was no any wallet in my mind which have 0/0002 BTC as fees for the miners for transactions. But now I will go to multibit and will adopt it for my transactions if I find it beneficial.

Other desktop wallets can even have a lower transaction fee if you set it manually.  But the problem with setting your transaction fee to low is the chance of confirmation.  For example, electrum wallet can be set to have a dynamic fee, where the fee will auto adjust to the standard fee, but you can still adjust it through the slider if you want a longer confirmation time or to be confirmed on the next block.  You can also uncheck the dynamic fee and set it to manual where you can set how much you wanted to pay for tx fee.  You can even set it to 0 but it is not recommended.

I dont know any,last time i sent 0.009 with 0.0006 fee i ve been waiting 12 houres for confirmation next i sent
0.01 with 0.001 fee waiting 3 houres for confirmations,choose some alts like doge ltc dash if you can

I've just been using eth until this gets fixed..

Exactly, the alternative should be dogecoin or litecoin. I personally used dogecoin for every single transaction, in bittrex the cost of withdraw is only 2 doges which is extreamly cheap so i can move my bitcoin from one exchanger to another easily without worried about higher fee and long confirmation time however they might charge you double fee, fee for converting your bitcoin to altcoin and withdrawal's fee but it's not higher than bitcoin's fee to be honest, so far i would recommend dogecoin.

I guess as long as the bitcoin price is increasing in the maket the bitcoin transaction or fee will also increasing in a high fees we know that and that was really normal for controling and having a good profit in such a wallet i guess that was fair enough but its really cost a lot for someone.

So it is not a legit way to actually have cheap transactions, having a cheap transaction means sending it with a small fee and getting it confirmed at blockchain fast. To be honest there is no way to do that right now unfortunately and you need to pay something like at least 1 dollar per transaction which is ridiculous. We need the uasf asap, then with segwit we can send money easily and cheaply.

Using alts is good for inter exchange transaction or some multi web wallet that have built in exchange.  But if the BTC is coming from your desktop, it will just double your expenses.  Like in my case.  I have my Bitcoin in my desktop so it cost me more if I switch to altcoin.  And when I cash out, the exchange service in my county is only Bitcoin, so there is no way I can use altcoin to encash my bitcoin to fiat currency.

Do people really use altcoins for moving value between exchanges? I've heard of some people talking about the concept but I never thought many (if any) actually took the time to do something like that. It makes sense thinking about it, though. Not a bad idea.

Aside from paying the normal transaction fee, there are maybe some services you can use that transfer Bitcoin a bit faster for a fee, not sure how they work explicitly but it that might be able to help out a bit.

I would rather choose the way which is more secure than not. As for me, I transfer Bitcoin in large quantity than small ones so that the fee you will pay is worth it. Also you better find a wallet which you can adjust the fee you desire though I don't have any wallets that I can suggest since I've used the local ones which gives us an option to choose what fee we like. Also it depends on how you badly needed the money--can it wait or not.

I have never seen far beyond the problem, much to do in some things to do. What you want and you can change some of your bitcoin and start using altcoin like litecoin.

the longer the fee of bitcoin transaction is very expensive and as far as I know wallet exchanges that use cheap cost only poloniex. convert to altcoin is a good idea now many multi wallet like coinbase which also provides wallet eth.

Correct, and also expect that if you are only going to pay small transaction fees, means your transaction speed won't be that fast compare to the transactions which do have higher transaction fees. But if you do really need to transfer some bitcoin right away, then I suggest you to pay high transaction fee, and just like what @bitbunny said, to also have secure transaction. :)

Well but converting from BTC to eth and vice versa actually makes you loose more than you'd have paid for a decent transaction confirmation. It's just that people will have to improvise and use Bitcoin for only large transactions in order not to pay huge fees on small transactions.

Not at all. You will only convert one time and not every time you transact. ETH is much better now on bitcoin. The minimum transaction fee is very expensive compared to ETH. It's time now to leave bitcoin and change for the better one.

i think that using altcoin for transaction fee is good. but if you are lazy enough, then set the manual fee and use the speed up service to boost your tx
search for the free one, or else you tip the miner for decent payment

It's best to avoid sending small payments as long they don't come with solution to this. From what i see people are complaining but they are still sending small payments and paying high fee's, i don't understand why because it is big waste of money.

If you think holding coins in poloniex or any other exchange will help you not to pay high fee than go for it. I hope you are aware of risk of losing bitcoins if something happen to exchange.

No. But you can send transaction, pay low fee and speed it up for free using https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/ or https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1946761.0

Yes, I totally understand the risks associated with holding on polo v/s a desktop wallet v/s a paper wallet and so on.

These acceleration services look good, but may potentially lead to compromised privacy. I might try them to sweep 3-4 1 mBTC dust utxo's I have lying around.