Bitcoin Forum

All i want is a decentralized exchange where I can move btc into other liquid assets like gold, fiat etc
 I dont even mind if they are just a token that refects the underlying value as long as they are safe and sufficiently liquid volume enough to easily move in and out of them. I want to do all this without touching banks or gov.


Anything like this exist or is planned?

Am I asking too much?

well with fiat, gold and all the rest of the regulated stuff, there will always be some level of centralization and regulation that you need to follow. so i think yeah you are asking a bit much :)

unless you move to physical and face to face exchange of BTC to Physical Gold, Hard Cash, ... i don't see any other way.

No platforms doing this? I year ago I looked at bitshares but i dodnt like the UI amd it didnt have enough vol to confidently use it.

Any similar options?

Like I said im willing to use virtual tokens if the platform is relatively stable and trusted.

Bump

In my opinion, yeah, you are asking too much, a decentralized exchange? I don't think so, because this exchanges does exist because they are companies which do earn bitcoins on making a way where bitcoin users could exchange their coins or to trade their coins, and getting this decentralized would be impossible and no one would ever do that, because there is no reason to make one.

I don't want to embarrass you but like I already it does already exist I'm just wondering what other platforms exist and are planned.

Bitshares I know of, didnt like it, no vol but I havent tried it for a year.

Ripple has a kind of decentralised market, I havent looked at Ripple for a few years so I dont even know what form it takes now.


So anyone recommend other platforms? Does WAVES do this?

The governments won't be happy with a decentralized exchange. You know, money laundering and tax evasion will be an issue, or excuse.

And if there is trouble, where would you go to complain?

It's impossible to decentralize exchange of crypto for fiat, because fiat is inherently centralized. If you need to go through the banking system, then decentralization is out of the question.

If you want to exchange for fiat, you must meet with a person in real life through local bitcoins, and exchange for fiat or gold.

Have you ever heard of Bitsquare? That's another decentralized exchange which allows you to exchange Bitcoin for fiat and other cryptocurrency.
It's not that popular the last time I checked, but there are still some good offers on there.

Check out their website and download their open source app here:
https://bitsquare.io/

There are many exchange platforms that have BTC-USDT (Tether) pairs, Tether is actually backed by real USD deposits in banks and 1 USDT tends to remain as 1 USD but there can be some fluctuation in this value like we have right now.

Another option could be goldmoney that accepts bitcoin deposits and you can buy gold with it but you can't buy back bitcoin with those gold. If you want to cash out than you can receive gold bars from them if your country lies under their supported country list.

You are not asking too much

And you are certainly not alone who is waiting for a truly decentralized blockchain based exchange to emerge. I'm also waiting and expecting such one (if that comforts you somehow). All previous implementations suffered from the same flaw, i.e. they were devastatingly slow. Now when Lightning Network is activated in Litecoin and will likely be activated in Bitcoin as well (though this is not a given), we may hope that some new developments will come up soon aiming at implementing an instant exchange in the blockchain itself

They're all one phone call or raid away from being shut down. They'll end up as poster boys for the dangers of centralisation without playing regulatory ball.

All tokens imply backing, and backing implies a point of failure.

decentralized pure online fiat is impossible by its nature.

decentralized crypto exists already, theres one on the ethereum blockchain

A decentralized exchange cannot do something like that though. This is the biggest issue that I have with people who don't understand the terminology that they're using.

A decentralized exchange would not be able to hold gold or fiat for you, without you having to rely on someone else to store it, because it requires physical storage and it can't just materialize. If you trade with someone for gold, how do they send you their gold? There is nowhere to deposit it because there is no central authority, which could then send you your portion of the gold.

What you want is a centralized exchange with more options.

Take a look at bitcoin marketcap, there's an exchange that receives a cryptocurrency exchange with gold, or an investment  bitcoin with gold, many businesses are opened with bitcoin.

Yes and no. A decentralized exchange as in something like good old P2P localbitcoins isn't too much to ask; but a digital exchange similar to Poloniex is. You can't really get physical assets to another person unless you go through a centralized system (mail, FedX, UPS, ect) or meeting in person. Not to mention regulations on physical goods and Fiat.
Edit: Grammar

Thanks for the replies. This is not directed at anyone, just a comment.

But how sad is it that a group of adults cant freely buy and sell legal assets without regulations, controls and government breathing down our necks. Even worse many of us don't think that will ever be possible.

No you are not asking too much but right now we even don't have any reliable decentralized bitcoin exchange with good trading volume. Any token that will be backed by gold or fiat will be centralized so even though you use decentralized exchange to trade them with bitcoin, government can easily shut those token down and you may end up with nothing.

This is not too much to ask as this will even create inter platform trading which will equally blend both items but the issue here is that while bitcoin is not regulated, gold is fully regulated and aside that bitcoin is yet to be accepted into the mainstream of trading like other commodities such as gold, silver, currencies, crude oil among others so if this can happen I am sure that a cross platform WL be created to make this dream a possibility.

Bitcoin is on the way to become centralized. So, yes, you are asking too much. In our world it's easier to centralized bitcoin rather to decentralize exchange into gold or fiat.

Yep decentralized implies that its peer to peer but to facilitate trading in fiat a trusted third party is required for deposits and withdrawals.

Bitshares has ok volume for USD and CNY pegged assets, but not for a gold backed one.

The problem with Ripple is that the value of anything (except XRP itself) is at the mercy of some company that in most cases has no legal obligation to by that token back even if they sold it as "dollar" or "gold".

I know what you want because I had exactly the same problem only took inquiries and research to solve.

USDT(Tether) is a good alternative. Being using it for weeks now as a safeguard to crazy Cryptocurrency fluctuations. Am not sure whether it is regulated or immune to exchange crash

I know yobit let's you exchange is for bitcoins and you don't have to have the usd until you withdraw so it's what you want. You sit with the isd reflected in your account . So simply go from is to Bitcoin or vice versa and only actually draw the fiat if you withdraw off the exchange. I don't know why you would want to exchange to gold though.

have you heard for tokens that you can exchange for physical gold, and if you want, the gold is send to your home, or storaged by them.

https://www.dgx.io/

I think this is it... I hope I helped.

All of these guys have said quite decent information and advise for you to try, and they think you are asking too much which is true, but to tell you the truth I am exchanging my bitcoins with fiat with the help of the bank, it is a bitcoin wallet and bank relationship if you ask because there is not much other ways to settle in my country but I don't think it is the same for your country either.

If you want liquidise your money then must use local bitcoin wallets . Yes again it's regularised so there will be a procedure to follow based on your country

I wish someone would establish an exchange on international waters or on a private island and that exchange wouldn't require any verification or personal details. No government would be able to influence it and force it to share the identities or IPs of its users. If someone finds a way to make such an independent exchange he's going to make millions on it.

I found this post interesting but, no one has chimed in really with next level ideas or pointed out anyone who has started doing so... only the pieces.

Well... all the pieces are here to do this, someone just needs to put it all together and back it.

The exchange you are asking for has to reside in the cloud... and to do so it needs to run in the EVM (Ethereum or Expanse Virtual Machine) which would execute the code base the exchange needs to operate. This is not cheap right now... not yet... in the future when these two coins increase in value, running inside the EVM will be much more cost effective. For now this is the limitation.

The EVM is designed not to provide CHEAP or even AVERAGE virtual compute... it is to provide INSANELY ANONYMOUS and AVAILABLE virtual compute that is P2P driven, resilient and where the code you submit to the EVM can only be changed by YOU the token creators for that platform. Therefore, it is expensive at current rates, you pay for the insane availability those platforms offer access to and for this idea, it is probably cost prohibitive.

Once that hurdle can truly be cleared, it becomes a matter of using blockchain for trust and identity for those users who wish to back tokenized assets on those platforms with their fiat or other physical assets. The Expanse dev team is already developing this too... a blockchain driven World Trust network if you will, which would allow asset holders to back crypto tokens with those assets tied to their World Trust identity.

Put those together with the developments in ZCASH private transactions, and several other developing communications protocols in promising projects here, you have yourselves the making of exactly what you are asking for.

GOOD things come with TIME and proper effort... and the pieces above are coming together whether we want it now or can wait a few more years.

PARTICIPATE and CONTRIBUTE... this whole thing gains value every day people do so.

That's why mostly shady people will stay on there. Drug dealers and criminals and terromists

Overall the idea is good, but the reality is in its idealism it's naive

This makes no sense, absolutely

If someone establishes an exchange in the international waters or on a private island, it can be easily hijacked by terrorists or their likes (or some rogue government agencies). Apart from that, top exchanges need the fastest Internet available today to remain competitive. I don't really know how you are going to achieve that on an isolated island. Further, such exchanges as Bitfinex are already mostly virtual, i.e. they exist entirely in cyberspace. Indeed, they have some physical presence since they still need processing capacity, read they need servers and other equipment as well as staff, but this is by far a better approach

That is a complete wrong assessment ,how can a decentralized network be controlled. ::)

The problem is i think it is impossible to make these sort of free exchanges as it could break all the trade regulations and even if a crime is reported there is nothing you can do and with it if you are not following the basics,even i like to have my privacy but i do not mind providing my verification details as long as my privacy is maintained.

But I think they still can be forced to give up personal data of their customers.
If they register in a certain country they have to obey its laws and can be pressured by the government to shut down. I hope there are still countries that value people's privacy and wouldn't do it, maybe those countries will become a safe haven for Bitcoin exchanges.

The main issue is you never know if if it will be maintained.
I am ok with verifying myself for security reasons, but I'm not ok with sharing these with government agencies.

Actually USDT is in hot waters at the moment and speculated that it may crash. I’d be careful investing into it if I were you.

I think I have read somewhere here in this forum of a coming ICO from a decentralized exchange with features which you are talking about here. Please search for CoinDash.io. I know that the name can be familiar because of Dash coin but this one is different. This is an exchange platform.

Right now, there are now so many nice ideas revolving the use of the cryptocurrency technology so much so that I can see a trend towards the use of niche marketing as strategy to gain traction in the market.

If you ask too much then i will search tau, what bolt you ask too much ??

How could you transfer your money to other person , when I say money I mean fiat and not relying on a 3rd party?
Be it a bank , wu or a pigeon?

A decentralized exchange means it's you and the other guy.
But you have to pay him the $ and he has to receive them.

How will that work if you're not face to face with him?

You might check https://bitsquare.io/ but they are far away from what you want

Registration doesn't mean a thing today

I've recently read about some online bank which is registered in 3 (!) entirely different countries under different names and titles. Further, many companies (and exchanges fit into this category quite well) are registered in offshore territories like Belize, Andorra, Marshall Islands and similar jurisdictions (most certainly for tax purposes). Obviously, they are in no way tied to these areas, and if their registration is annulled (for whatever reason), they may easily register elsewhere

check out https://nvo.io/index.html

If they can be turn into physical asset, I think goverment will not just stay still instead they will make advance regulation for bitcoin which I'm consider that you must pay some tax for owning that. It's really different compare gold that found on nature and bitcoin found on data through cryptography

A decentralized exchange linked to Fiat & Gold and other commodities are a pipe dream. The government will never allow you to do this without

KYC/AML regulations and tons of validation and verification. You will never be able to do this anonymously, without banks and governments

getting involved. We are slaves to the Fiat system and Bitcoin is not going to free us.  >:(

I do not agree on a decentralized bitcoin, I think that would be a lot of trouble. I like bitcoin core, but it's disappointing, I'm still waiting for changes that are positive towards bitcoin development.

While it doesn't bother governments they will allow it, like a small service involving a small number of people. Like Bitcoin now, many governments allow people to use it without regulamentations because there aren't many people using Bitcoins, it's not a problem for them, but when a considerable percentage of population adopts it, the "slavery" will start happening.  :D

It doesn't matter how small the service is.
Once you involve international fiat transfers via banks you will get flagged in a matter of days.

You can't escape regulation using banks.
As the user you quoted said. It's a pipe dream and it will never happen.

And I see no reason for it anyway.
Just stick to using bitcoins.

Yes, while using the decentralized bitcoin and other alts you still need the conversion to the fiat to enjoy your profit in the real sense so it mean that both the centralized and the decentralized financial systems are dependent on each other and they have a real role to play so lets it not make the issue and enjoy what we get the best from both of these systems.

And I think those changes are well overdue, especially the changes to the block size and/or Segwit. Bitcoin seems to be going down a bad road and I think everybody is anticipating what’s going to happen.

Yes I would be very interesting as no one will be able to text or ban it on me. But if you really want to liquidize your money then you should use hardware Bitcoin wallet. bitcoin is now going to its rising price and is being used in most of the societies. It is a payment system of every one of the world. Converting your Bitcoin to Gold will not be a wise decision because in using gold or fiat has more chances for loss and cutting. But in Bitcoin there is no worry about loss whenever you want you can use your Bitcoin as it was.

sounds like bitsquare

I do not think he's asking too much, but he's asking for something that can not happen, it's really impossible, however, he's not the only one, so many others in the forum. This is demanding a decentralized bitcoin while the developers always refuse it. I always support bitcoin core, but it is disappointing to me on the current situation.

There are plenty of exchanges allowing you to keep your BTC as money withdraw-able through different methods, if I didn't understand wrong, that's the very purpose of exchanges particularly like Bitstamp and Coinbase/BTC-E.
You can keep it as fiat there only though and not gold/silver, to buy these you would need to move to a new interface without BTC like goldmoney, even if you can deposit BTC, you can't withdraw BTC.

I can say "YOU ARE NOT ASKING TOO MUCH!"
This is one of Satoshi's dreams when he created Bitcoin and brought it to the community, now many people still want that including me! But this is a difficult road, need more time and change people's minds. The government in the world's will make it difficult more, because they not want one currency or a valuable stuff can't tax and can't management by them. They want control the market make it within their control :)

I strongly agree with you, they better act quickly to be resolve these pending challenges facing Bitcoin because we've waited for far too long and the earlier a consensus is established the better for all of us.