Bitcoin Forum

...which will disappear when the price comes closer to it.

The joys of an unregulated market... Truly a beauty if I do say so myself :)

I did too. Until I noticed these walls disappear right before the price touches them. MtGox can "draw" anything in their own data.

What if a huge sell came in, would it still disappear in time? Excuse my ignorance, I imagine program trades are very fast to respond, but if something is on the books, can't it be taken up with a HUGE sell?

IAS

Or perhaps we don't need to go into conspiracy theories and that someone just placed a bid wall they're going to pull.

No, it would be filled with a massive sell order.  When he says "disappear" I think he means that many of the orders typically get canceled when the market starts moving down. 

I've never traded on mtgox but if mtgox has the all-or-nothing option to place orders then it's very easy for a bot to be scripted and place these bid walls and price watch. If we're talking about a 20k bid wall being placed in a single order, then the bot has more than enough time to react to cancel that order.

Alternatively, as the people above are saying, it's very easy to have the bot cancel order if the price starts getting close.

No.


Orders are executed in the order that they are received.  If someone sells BTC40,000 with a market order, all of the current bids in the way will be executed.

It might take an hour for MtGox to process an order that large, though.  :P

Odds are price is going to tank soon, it seems like a lot of artificial movement is attempting to force momentum upwards and failing pretty badly.

Seems like someone wants to buy that NY appartment:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194529.0

Wow

Someone is looking to buy 2 million worth of bitcoins - that is 21k in btc coins.

I had sells, but now I think it is a bit too dangerous. This bidder could easily send the price to 127 and it would be difficult for bears to get it down to even 120 again.

It is pretty but a pumpers gotta pump.  ;D https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6135860480/h505CD89E/

Or even that most traders just set $100 because it's a round number, but reconsider in more detail when the price drops close. If the price suddenly drops with force you pull the bid and move it lower.

This is the bid wall's exact purpose - manipulation and fear.

It's going down.

Wall has been pulled.  :P

I think the most effective thing to do would be to break that important 120$ resistance and then leave the wall there till it moves further, then sell somewhere above that. It takes balls to attempt that however;)

Most effective to do what?

and it's gone...

Edit: to the owner of that wall...besides buying bitcoin....good luck getting your $2,000,000 out of gox in any timely manner.

 :P :P :P

But can't a bid wall attract a seller who wants to get rid of a huge amount? I mean, if someone wanted to sell a huge amount of coins that would just crash the price, probably below the bid wall to begin with. So, if there is an opportunity to get rid of a hug amount of coins at a roughly $8 cost per coin, it is a possibility.

Yes. Because it's not a real wall but one placed personally by Mark Karpeles.

History of previous trades shows that it's a wall placed to manipulate the price. Don't be naive, MtGox can do it and of coz they do it. Don't u expect they won't use such a good chance to earn extra millions of dollars?

Mt Gox makes millions anyway from all those transaction fees. I do not think it would be worth for them to play the market and possibly get burned or have their manipulation discovered and loose all the trust they have gained through the years.

Man, don't disappoint me. If u had two options - take 10.000.000 USD or 12.000.000 USD - would u choose the 1st one? *facepalm*

Reminds me of PokerStars players believing that the poker games are rigged when the site is already making hundred of millions per year with the rake.

ROFL. Very good point, Goat!  ;D

Uh that "trust" isn't so far fetched... They hold a majority of the capital in Bitcoins and Dollars. If that doesn't spell practical trust what does?

In the end it doesn't really matter how you guys feel, just your actions...

Drive the price up.

yea cuz government regulation would solve this problem with out creating any newer bigger ones ::)

Wall is back and now at 110...

I think the wall delivers fear more than safety, thats two million of cash, it means that the same guy might hold tons of bitcoins and awaiting a massive sell off at the right price.

20,000BTC at $110 instead of $100 now. Wow, just wow.

Now we know for sure it's one person doing the buying and not just coincidentally stacked bids (as unlikely as that was anyway)

His bids are a little too close to the market price for a bluffer's comfort. I think he actually means to buy the coins. If he placed a market order the price would go right to $128.

So my guess - he's hoping for a little dip into his buy order to get a better deal. But I am pretty sure this guy is a serious buyer and not a faker

http://www.lolbrary.com/content/319/seems-legit-14319.jpg

The tin-foil hat wearers who accuse the bots of holding the price down are naive.  The bots don't keep the price down, but for temporary periods.  The bots are there to drive the price up over time through repeated pumping and dumping. They benefit more from crashing at a higher price.  Gox also benefits from higher prices and the publicity/accounts it brings.

The walls are there to provide illusory support.  I.e., that the price cannot possibly drop below the wall.  This encourages buyers and helps drives the price up.  When the owner of the wall wants the price to crash, or sees it coming, the wall will be removed.  The price will drop further than it otherwise would.  The owner then tries to snipe the bottom.

Same thing is happening with all the alt-coins.  Just takes more $ to manipulate on Gox.

Play against the wall and Gox if you wish
1. dump into it
2. buy when is removed. :-)

I don't have the fund to do so.   :'(

Lol poor bidwaller

He puts his wall at 100, no one touches it, he goes for 110 and the price moves away by 7 points so again no one touches it.

I think the guy will just eat his own wall through 5k market buys.

If he wanted to buy he wouldn't have put up a 14k bid wall. He's selling, or it's a last ditch effort to keep the price from falling.

Even 1 BTC is enough. If wall is fake, you will have 1,5. (and repeat next time)

The owner of the wall might permit part of the wall to be eaten before moving.  I doubt 1btc is enough to scare the owner that someone is about to eat the entire wall.

I'm talking about your profit. Make 2 BTC(1,5) from 1 BTC. And then 4 BTC from 2 BTC  when next time wall appears ... soon you will have 1000 BTC (if you are right :-) )

Not interested in playing that game.

i like how no one is falling for the shenanigans

I like it :-). When price is high enough. I'll take 10% (I can afford to lose) of my BTC and sell them (lock into profit). Then try to buy lower and sell them again higher. I'm playing against speculator.

Speculating against the speculators.

hmmm  :D

just like no one falls for the ddos attacks anymore.

Dear lord. Does no one here understand that those bids are all for $100? That is the total accumulation of $100 bids.  walls are not made by manipulation. They are made by buyers and sellers.  Obviously the psychological impact $100 has is very great.

this made me lol. +1

Sorry if someone's mentioned this, and it might be entirely wrong just thinking out loud, but don't you think this sort of position is in place to create a false sense of demand or support? I've seen the wall increase by about 400k USD while it's been in place. Let's assume those aren't his bids beyond $2m and it's just people piling on to "support" a bottom. If whomever put it up were to take it down, and sell off immediately after, he would effectively have lulled $400k, plus the bids beyond $110/BTC, into assuming their position was in fact ahead of demand so they would be able to catch any short sell offs (they have not much hope of picking up additional BTC if $110 is the bottom with a $2m+ wall). But in effect, created a sufficient depth to execute a market order and reach his desired yield. Basically setting up the sheep for slaughter.

a couple of things... a lot of people sold their coins in the crash  (I remember there was like 40 thousand coins just to get from 99 to 81 or something like that at least)

now that the market didn't actually sink a lot of people are left holding cash instead of bitcoins and they probably are thinking they just got tricked into selling

the buy walls could be some of those people

it could also be fake

then again from a strategic standpoint i'm not sure walls are made for psychological reasons. I think they are made for strategic reasons... you put a wall up to try to catch a dip.  But if something looks like it's tanking you are going to move the wall (not because it was fake) but because you want to catch the bottom

I was thinking it is an newbie's wall. ... but will newbie have $2M at gox  on Sunday ?

Market moved up, Hopefully the wall will too.

But then it would risk being sold into.

So do you think:

(big player) I'll put $2M wall, price go UP and I'll buy at higher price ? (DUMP comes)

Why do you hope the wall keeps moving up?  That just sets the stage for a more dramatic crash.

So I can catch the peak before the crash and then buy in again when it is low.

Yes if there are not bigger player. :-) (EDIT: than this with $2M wall)

No guilt from participating in the manipulation and robbing inexperienced traders?  These things don't exactly help Bitcoin's reputation.

I'm not manipulating anyone, just taking advantage of someone else's manipulation.  No guilt at all.

You don't have long to get out, imo. Bids are nearing 10k over 110, besides the wall, and asks are starting to build. Dump incoming.

You are helping create ammunition for the bitcoin critics.

He stabilizes the system. When manipulator pumps he sells. When manipulator dumps he buys. Less profit for manipulator (as manipulator is without profit/lose he stops doing this)

Inexperienced traders don't get robbed, only ignorant or stupid ones. You have the responsibility to educate yourself and you have access to all that information for free on the internet.

Do you think he has enough bitcoin to affect the manipulator's profits enough to discourage pumping and dumping?

no I do not.  If I had not sold out when it was at $15 I might.

Is there any honor in robbing ignorant or stupid traders?

You take risks when you enter a speculative market.

/discussion

A lot of soccer moms have entered the market and understand that it is speculative.  The extent of manipulation is not as well understood.

Start with 1 Satoshi. When you make 5 Satoshi  try 0.1 btc.  You will become confident, or will stop trading. Buy and hold is the best strategy.

I still have about 25 BTC.  So I have enough to play with, just not enough to actually move the market.

We had 20,000+ BTC worth of bids @ 120-ish quite recently, didn't we?

I think the bidwall is someone that wants to stabilize the exchange rate for business reasons.  They have most likely bet on a BTC business, and the BTC-denominated business needs a stable price.

We will see this phenomenon when the price is near 200, though not as much most likely. Historically it happened around 10.

The wall isn't made of a single order, but represents the amount of lemmings willing to get back in for somewhere between 99 and 101.

The existence of this many lemmings is supported by threads like this.

Well, they failed, then. A bunch of suckers panic bought, and it won't be long until they start panic selling again.

An unregulated market at its finest

Fixed that for you.

No, this is a single order. A saw how it was placed in no time.

Best post of the thread :P :P

Maybe he will buy 6,7 btc @ $300k/btc -> no problem withdrawn .. in case gox did not change the rules.

Yeah. It's a single order, look how it went in and out in this bid sum chart:

http://www.blockchained.com/depth_mtgox_15d.png

I'm sure too that this is a ridiculous attempt to take the price up before a dump. No one would place a $2M bid at a single point ($100), to then just push it a 10% higher ($110) just a few hours later. Who is so stupid to think that a $2M order will be filled all at once at a single price point, in a such tiny market? Let's remember that $2M is more than 10% of the total fiat sitting on Gox order book ATM. What a joke, and even more because it's happening on a weekend... What a stupid way to burn money that would be.

So yes, the wall is fake, no way it's a guy really willing to buy $2M BTC, this wall belongs to a guy willing to SELL as high as he can.

[tin-foil hat]

Might be an experiment to test the waters before some much larger moves in the coming weeks.

[/tin-foil hat]

Everyone on this thread is so sure of their hypotheses.

Maybe. But it is also a waste of writing space and generally annoying to read "in my opinion," "I think/believe," or "probably/likely" before every prediction.

Grow a pair and say what you want to say. Also, when proven wrong, don't apologize.  Make a witty joke about your prediction a few comments down.

Am confused, I thought that you thought we are all evil  because of price speculation?

Please forgive me, I am in 50% troll-mode today.

That's not a witty joke!
Caught in your own game.  ;)

I hadn't made a prediction.

Haha don't worry you don't have to coach people how to be insufferable egotistical douchebags on the internet, it's something most seem to have down by now.

Wall moved or gone before price even got close to $110...

Wonder where it's gone... reappearing at $120 in a few hours ? Or massive coin dump incoming now that the bid side is well built up ?

waiting for his new wall at $115  ;D

Yes I believe this is the case also. I'd imagine he thinks the price will continue to fall and wants to get out at a good price before buying back much cheaper.

The hero bitcoin needs...

But probably isn't going to get, lol.  :P   That wall existed to create a false sense of security. He wanted to sell.

Yeah I'm bearish with you Namelessone  ;D

No, you can  actually dodge incoming orders when goxlag get's too high. Order cancellations work faster than lag.

What he sold, like 2k coins?

Anyhow, lol at those who said that the wall was a legit buyer who was going to get impatient and start buying with market oders... You don't burn your money putting a $2M wall and chase the price upwards if you really intend to buy, this market is too small to get such a big order at once and at a single spot, without driving the price up.

And to those saying that $2M were the lottery winnings of a new and clueless player... Yeah, definitely, and his $2M appeared suddenly on Gox on a Sunday.

Chuck that wall at $120.00 burtha!

How did the price go up to 124 then?

He did this before as well. Took off the wall at 100, placed a market order for 5k coins, then put a wall at 110.

I was asleep though so what happened this time, how did we get to 124? I think he placed another market order.

Now someone is propping up the market with 1000btc bid walls. Maybe the same guy, who knows.

These manipulators gonna get stung soon  ;D

Now we are at 113 again. So, I want this wall again. Where are you, my $2M sir?  ???