Bitcoin Forum

Maybe a repeated question ? Not sure...

Just simple economics, no need to get very deep into this question.

USD (as an example, could be other currency) has no limit, nothing scarce, it has value because people believe in it, it has history and is issued by an entity that is loosing the trust once had.

In the other hand, any crypto currency is limited, it's scarce, it's been almost 10 years since the creation and you can trust the technology.

Why is this still not worth trillions ?

Fiat isn't a bubble, it can't really be a bubble. It is regulated by the US government, so they could never allow it to be a bubble. Furthermore it is highly liquid so investors flocking to USD would not cause its value to rise. USD value and price is stable, so it is not characteristic of a bubble. Crypto, however, is highly volatile, illiquid, and driven up and down by retail investors. Furthermore, it is unregulated in the sense that fiat is. This makes it much more bubble-esque.

USD has a historical track record of centuries which is why people see it as good, not declaring bankruptcy etc.

Cryptocurrencies have a history less than a decade long that is why it is not worth trillions at this point, but give it a few more years or a few more decades to build up a longer track record and proof of safety and we will see a digital ocean for countries who want to make it a component of their financial system, we are just seeing some sparks of it now before they become embers and eventually flames.

As long as the USD is legal tender and inflation is kept moderate it will never be a bubble and to suggest otherwise is ludicrous. The fact that a currency is limited and scarce is not what gives it value, its the number of people using it and crypto has proven it is safe but not that it can handle large number of transactions plus it still can't be used offline.

Both serve a good purpose and neither is an ideal replacement for the other, crypto however has pumped way more than is natural given its current growth rate.

Because bitcoin is a completely new way to understand currencies, we cannot expect this concept to be accepted immediately but as time passes more people will begin to accept it and understand that bitcoin is the future and with it the rate of acceptance will begin to increase.

I can't agree with you that Fiat is a bubble because it is controlled and regulated by our Governments as long as their are bankers fiat will never become a bubble cause that's how they make their profit by providing this centralized currency to their citizens which taxes people and eventually the money is returned to the owner. You could say that bitcoin is bubble from years ago where it has only few supports but right now many institutional investors and countries supports it and also it is open source so any developer out there can contribute to bitcoin, more and more people are starting to know about it and using it as their source of income. So it has gained millions of support and trust around the globe.

Don't really understand what you are asking here, but I trust crypto supply (with supply cap and good deflationary rate built into code) more than I trust fiat (interest rates and money supply entirely controlled by a small group of people). Obviously I can go into much more depth about cryptoeconomics vs fiat economics, but I am going to say crypto and fiat are both in a bubble, but I would still rather hold any store of value crypto that fits my specifications.

Because Fiat money backed by government, it​ take decades - centuries to grow until reach this price, it's not a bubble such as cryptocurrencies which just brand new (less than 10 years) to become an accepted currency everywhere. Japan maybe the first country that declared bitcoin as legal payment, but some cities already use it in daily transaction. Why bitcoin still not worth trillions? If bitcoin accepted everywhere such as fiat money, than it would be worth more, maybe thousands of dollars or million but not trillions obviously.

USD (today's version) the fake dollar is 100 years old. The real dollar was deflationary lookup what the word dollar means whey those real American's made the dollar one of their people said it was defined as 26 grams of silver or something like that and it was a recept now they abused that name and it's fake currentcy it's not even money any more. Not sure why Americans doing this deception they where better off with truth and honest money why they switch to deception i don't know. I read their history and think they where better off sticking to original principles they started and keep the real money they would be very respoected nation today.

There are forced transactions on fiat currencies (like the USD) which artificially increase demand substantially.  In the states, all taxes must be paid in the national currency.  Which means that the default currency for a business to use is going to be the national currency.  Personal taxes and property taxes need to be paid in the national currency.  So unless you are a currency trader, the default is to just use the national currency.  People that don't know shit about currencies will use the national currency.

There are no forced transactions in cryptocurrencies.  They are an alternative to fiat, and are optional.  So you need to go out of your way to get a hold of it and use it.  It will take time for those advantages to become clear, and for the infrastructure to be such that it is the currency of choice.  If I have Bitcoin in Canada, where I live, I can't go into a store and buy anything.  It's almost useless locally, unless you interact with another Bitcoin fan.  The products and services that I need are sold in fiat, so that's what I need to use.  Once Bitcoin adoption proliferates, then we can actually use it in day to day activities, and the demand will raise the price vs. fiat.

Fiat reserve currencies are violently enforced throughout the world. The USD reserve currency is the enforcer for all central banking systems even in far-away remote countries...because the USD-fiat authorities set the rules for things like AML/KYC and even if a small tiny irrelevent bank in another country does not comply, they are cutoff from any inter-bank remittances (and or the SWIFT network for wires) and thus shut down over time.

Violently enforced through bombs, conflicts, economic sanctions (your people will starve), financing of wars, financing of international defense contractors or construction, freezing of assets, closure of financial institutions.

Coercion has kept the game going in the past, ...but will it work in the future?

Bitcoin has emerged as the proven store of value that is honest with an immutable ledger that cannot be corrupted.

Most other cryptocurrencies, >90%+ of them are scams or temporary pumps or combination of both that offers little novel value to the world.

Just give it 10 more years when the Fiat Fakers wake up and smell the coffie and put some of those corupt powers they bought against Bitcoin then lets see how it survives when they say you need a "aproved" laptop, aproved "internet". Trust me they can crush BTC right now they are not aware of the threat to their fake evil system when they become aware they fight dirty and will crush BTC i'm 99% sure!

because people are simply scared of what is unfamiliar and many of them won't lift a finger until it is too late in the game and it is time for FOMO. we sometimes call some of bitcoin price rises as FOMO but in reality we have not yet seen a real FOMO!
when some time has passed from Japan's mass adoption and a couple more countries joined in and when price went up real high that is when the masses will pour in and FOMO buy bitcoin and price goes to the moon that time. we are still in calm stages.

...you may be right...these coming years may be dramatic.

This is really can happen. Many capitals will be washed out through bitcoin system. When bitcoin will be used - they will just close it as something illegal.

Eh, crypto is in a bubble. And greed had twisted most coins to its hand, take bitcoin for example. Decentralized? Yea right. Cryptos for the little guy, nope they are there to get eaten by whales. When the bubble bursts the whales won't be the ones that fall with the bubble.

The little guy who gets crushed demands that you lie and say that will never happen. I'ts like in my country people hate freedom and demand they be regulated (the more the better) they say everyday we are not regulated enough but they demand that tryrants call that freedom!

Same with bitcoin little guys they demand lies. Do not say the truth like you are they will hate you for it! So learn to lie!

Bubble means that something rapidly grows in price and than falls to a previous level or lower. This is not happening with fiat, as its value only constantly decreasing due to inflation.

Why crypto is not worth trillions? It's very slow and very expensive to move, it's in a gray are of the law. Most people feel satisfied with fiat, so why should they switch to crypto?

Comparing fiat to bitcoin is outrightly ill informed conclusion. Fiat has been since time immemorial with a lot of development which has evolved in relation current economic happenings in the country at the time. It is also not free because that would negate the artificial scarcity to keep its value. Bitcoin on the otherhand is an evolving currency which is made for the whole world compared to countries having their own individual currency to serve as their identity. This alone gave value to fiat and makes it more acceptable to the populace.

Everything is a Bubble if you look at it from another currency perspective. I'm a firm believer that fiat is not money but rather something that the government uses to keep their grasp over the citizens as a form of invisible taxation.

And whilst I believe bitcoin will be bullish in the long run, as fiat collapses, I still do think that bitcoin right now in the short term has grown too much to be sustainer and not to be called a Bubble.

but i am sure that it is not going to happen with bitcoin also. although the price of bitcoin increased so rapidly but, the increase in not a fake increase or manipulation, but in fact after japan legalize bitcoin, bitcoin become more stronger and popular, the investors in bitcoin become more confident which cause the increase in the price of bitcoin. i am sure that bitcoin price will continue increase throughout the year and it will be a permanent increase and we are not expecting any decrease in the price of bitcoin.

It's not worth trillions because people don't care enough to invest trillions into it for fuck's sake. If there was a demand to justify it being in the trillions then it would be there by now, however it is not valued beyond $2,8XX as I type this right now, so there is only a demand for it which makes it worth $2,8XX. This is a simple lesson about economics and it should be blatantly obvious but apparently stuff like this is too complex now.

Fiat isn't in a bubble it's dying eaten by a cancer. That cancer is inflation.
Every year you hold your fiat there's less and less that you can buy with it. Bitcoin on the other hand... Just look at the charts 8)

The concept of fiat being a bubble is linked to the deficit and what happens historically when governments default on debt.

If the united states defaults, hyperinflation will occur and the value of the dollar will plummet through the floor.

In that happens, it may be fair to say: fiat is a bubble.

This could be reflected in japan, australia, russia, china & many other foreign countries abandoning the dollar as a reserve currency while embracing bitcoin & crypto instead.

Foreign powers embracing crypto while ridding themselves of dollars they were holding could be considered evidence: fiat is a bubble.

Like Leonardo Decaprio and Kate Winslet fleeing the titanic, everyone abandons the sinking fiat ship before it sinks.

Fiat is just a means of control, it's good to see you know this. It's meaningless paper that is given to you in exchange for your work; it has no real value beyond what the government says. If the entire system collapsed tomorrow then there would be a grand total of zero ways to get your work value back.
"Industrial Society and its Future" is an interesting read. In a way I hope it all comes crashing down so we can get some meaning in our lives again instead of the drones the governments encourage us to be.
It might have all been a mistake.

Since the crypto market is a relatively free market, I feel that even if the fiat overlords attempt to take out a crypto by buying it out, there is nothing stopping another one being created again for the people.  Old banking vs. new tech.

We all know that cryptocurrency is a bubble not the fiat since it backed by the government and they won't let their currency being volatile like crypto. One thing that make crypto in this case is bitcoin better than fiat is it's a deflationary currency well i think inflation is the major problem for the fiat, they the government are working so hard to controll their inflation as we can see there are many countries have been suffering from inflation for a long time.

Correct.   ;)


If a government defaults on its debt, as has happened numerous times in history, it doesn't matter what the government does

They could not prevent fiat from crashing anymore than they were successful in preventing the economic collapse of 2008.

Governments are not immune to effects of basic market mechanics & economics as the fall of the USSR as a superpower proved.

Marketcap cryptocurrency currently more than 100 billion USD, and we've not been able to say this is a bubble, this is the real business and everyone will be serious with cryptocurreny.