Bitcoin Forum

i think these things overtime will make bitcoin not as valuable.. plus the fact banks (while hated by most), have hundreds of years of reputation behind them and are easy to access... Just reading and learning about the ins and outs of bitcoin make my head hurt and I'm fairly saavy when it comes to most tech

Actually, no. I am not s tech person at all and when I read about bitcoin I understood why it was important immediately. Banks in the end run on the Fiat system as well as fractional reserve which in the end will all collapse due to the debt cycles. Bitcoin does not run on fractional reserve, does not have a central entity that sets interest rates and prints more money and essentially avoids having a bank or a clearing house at all for validating transactions.

Transaction fees have indeed risen quite steeply however they are still okay. If you compare the cost of sending a few thousand dollars in btc compared to via a bank you'll see the difference. Plus, balances reflect instantly instead of a 3 day wait at the bank. It's only a temporary problem anyways. In August this will be solved one way or another.

It's an 8 year old technology and you expect the price to be stable? That's like saying when the TV came out everyone should have had 1 within the first 8 years of them existing and the prices should have been lower at that point. It's still new. It's going to be volatile.

Fees are usually much less than they are right now but as of August this should be fixed. UASF will help.

Bitcoins, unlike banks, don't have or need a reputation because there is no trust involved. Banks want you to think that bitcoins have a bad rep, but they are not a person and can't do anything wrong. Banks make mistakes all the time. Bitcoins fundamentally can't. Think of it like, what's email's reputation? Wtf does that mean? It makes no sense? It's a technology how can it have a reputation? The rep is it works 100% no ifs ands or buts.

Well who says banks are all bad? if people never needed them they wouldn't exist at all, they are needed and very useful, could you imagine every individual having to run a full node in order to do transactions? so bank should exist while decentralized currencies such as Bitcoin are extremely helpful and useful wherever banks are actually denying you their services, otherwise the world wouldn't survived this long without them, that is why not every body will ever join crypto because they are fine with banks, only when they start to freeze accounts and confiscate assets then you'll turn to Bitcoin in particular. now if you understand what good Bitcoin is for you should be on your way back to your little hole.

Initial time 1850 banks are meant to help the regulated financial system but nowdays banking becomes so worst to use it. Too many charge and fees ATM withdraw and many more. I can say that bitcoin can live forever without the help of banking system. Some guys like never understand the complete potential of the bitcoin.

Yeah clearly this two negative sides of bitcoins that we are experiencing now will casue bitcoin not being adopted by all countries around the world,this two things bitcoin needed to overcome to become stronger like what we expect from bitcoin

these things you put in your title are
volatility: which is perfectly understandable since bitcoin is still a new technology and it is still being adopted and has not reached the mass adoption phase. and it actually makes it more valuable as an investment and for trading. specially as an investment since the price is rising because of growing adoption.

transaction fees: again has no effect on bitcoin's value. people investing in it are making so much more profit that they won't care about paying $1 or so for a transaction fee. imagine investing $100 in bitcoin and have it doubled in a month, you do honestly care about $1 fee! what if you invested $1000, $5000,...

the only thing these two affect is the usage as a currency and while that contributes to the value or price of bitcoin a lot but i don't see lack of them causing any loss in value.

Both transaction fee and the volatility is the attractive features of bitcoin, but at times this becomes an issue. It's good to have trust and make use of bitcoin. Only than can experience the goodness of bitcoin volatility and can overcome the transaction confirmation delays. Some has started to describe that bitcoin is under destruction because of the confirmation and several controversial issues going on with the blocksize, segwit and bubbles. In reality these were not gonna make any failure in the growth of bitcoin.

Both are not the negative things in my opinion. To fixing the scaling problem of bitcoin just to take a technical solution regarding the scaling problem of bitcoin such as segwit agreement. And without the volatility and you will not see the price of bitcoin at this rate.

This is only a temporary issue. Every single decentralized cryptocurrency/app will experience scaling issues and bitcoin is going through this scaling problem stage right now. The biggest problem isn't even transaction fees in my opinion, transaction fees are fine. I can afford paying $2 per transaction once in a while even though it's a hassle and pain in the ass to deal with because i have to limit my transactions to less than i would have liked to. The main issue si that this issue is causing infighting in bitcoin as to how bitcoin should scale.

I think you really need to watch some bitcoin related vids before commenting on this issue. Bitcoin is a long term store of value. It is the first cryptocurrency, which means that it has the most reputation as well among all other cryptos. It has a lot of potential and if you're not invested in bitcoin then you'll be paying for it in the future ;)

Nope. High transaction fees hinder adoption and prevent bitcoin from achieving its true potential.
You talk about people investing $100, but what about people who want to invest $2. High transactions fees will surely deter them.
And there are probably a billion people like that.

Bitcoin is volatile because it's still early days, the volume is quite low and every buy or sell affects the price greatly. This would come down when Bitcoin will reach widespread adoption, because volumes will increase greatly and it will become much harder to manipulate the price. But adoptions can only be reached if the scaling problem will be solved, so stay tuned for the upcoming news about possible fork and voice your support for whatever side you chose in this debate.

people are too much enthusiastic to invest money in bitcoin but when they hear about the increasing transaction fee from time to time they become disappointed and avoid to invest. i think this problem really needed to overcome if we want bitcoin to become more and more popular.

On those two things you made mention, bitcoin is still ahead of bank in all respect in the case of volatility that is not expected to leave anytime soon because bitcoin is an emerging currency and at the same time the volatility is what is attracting several people in to bitcoin. On the issue of transaction fees, I use banks and I understand the myriad of charges that its being leveled on my account despite the fact that I don't even carry out any transaction which is not something we have in bitcoin.

In the humble united states, americans pay much more in gas taxes, alcohol/tobacco excise taxes, sales taxes, road taxes, telecommunications taxes & other assorted taxes to make bitcoin transaction fees appear small in comparison.

In that sense, paying the bitcoin transaction tax feels more like a privilege than theft. At least transaction fees are being used for something I believe in.

I agree and part of the problem is that people don't want to see the problem. In the end we may not get a solution until the price of bitcoin crashes and miners will have no choice but to either go offline or accept a compromise.

Banks are not needed, they are parasitic entities sucking money out of our wallet, they create money out of thin air and can be the reason behind economy collapse.
Hundred years of reputation my ass.  Lehman Brothers went bankrupt after over 100 years in business. What we really need is banking service - not a Bank.
At least with bitcoin we have full transparency and total honesty about our token.

Yes I agree that transaction fee can kill bitcoin but I doubt volatility will kill them.  Actually, it is the high volatility that makes bitcoin interesting to traders since they can exploit it to take profit from those who made an error in trading.  But I guess developers are aware of the transaction fee issue and will have solution for it in due time.

guys I didn't say it will kill it i'm just saying that's why I think this huge bubble is occuring

I don't see it coming instead.. The market is not saturated and there's a growing interest from all around the world; about volatility, that's one of the things that attract many big guys into bitcoin. Yes, it has its downsides too but nothing that would make it play a main role in a possible crash.

The transaction fee is one of the things that we need to take care, but the volatility is a good thing, a volatility means bitcoin in a good condition where there are buy and sell transactions, it is where the trader get profit and we cant prevent volatility because its decentralized

All traders want bitcoin prices to be more volatile so that they can make a good money from everyday trading. But normal investors wants a slow and study growth. But transaction fees are quite high and it is no more a good option to send smaller amounts using bitcoins. So nowadays I'm using ETH for smaller transaction and bitcoins are only for investment purpose.

Higher the volatility higher the trading takes place due to chance of making higher profit or can be even otherwise as well. But as an investment purpose too btc is the good option considering its past inspite of volatility it has given a best return against any asset class.

So much for the instant transactions and low fees. Now this shit charging more than the banks.

The pros outweigh the cons, that said you have raised  some valid point. Bitcoins is difficult to understand for a lot of people. How will my grandparents or mother use it? They aren't tech savy at all, in fact it is a challenge for them to do more than the basics on android, call, sms and that's it.

Definitely volatility and transaction fees are two issues in bitcoin.Volatility makes many countries to think twice before accepting bitcoin as legal payment.But volatility is its nature.It could not be changed.Higher transaction fees would make new companies drop their plans of accepting bitcoin payment.

How about you try and compare with something recent? Let's change tv's with smartphones..
10 years ago we had the first Iphone.... nowadays....

In this century 8 years old is indeed old and tested.
The volatility will remain until it will match the growth of other products that were launched in the last decade.

And although bitcoin has surpassed any other assets in terms of $ gains in terms of adoptions and usage it still lacking

I don't think volatility and fee will ever clash bitcoin as it has never clash any assets before rather people become interested in bitcoin because of it volatility. Bitcoin's founder said "bitcoin will become something valuable or nothing"

The fact is that it's very bad when for small Bitcoin users, these fees are very huge. For larger Bitcoin users, this is not so tangible.

so they become lesser the more bitcoins you have?

Volatility is a serious issues that when price increases, it goes at a percentage so high and when it does go down, its just massive like what we witnessed today but at the same time it also presents an opportunity for everyone to tap into who feels the price at the time is on the high side to be afforded. The other part is the transaction fees which I feel is still bearable compared to the high price of bitcoin which I believe its still affordable for users of bitcoin.

The beauty of bitcoin is that you are able to control your assets without the help of a third person and the government is not controlling how your asset is valued and if you have the same ideology behind the technology then you wont mind the volatility and the transaction fees,but i think the transaction fees are getting higher and needs to be controlled.

Because of the volatility of bitcoin many of us which is the bitcoin community most of them experienced big/small profit which means it is not true that bitcoin is not like not important but its too significant in our times and most of the banks now are also
Important and very useful too.

Yeah I agree with you. The negative part here is the high transaction fee. Investors will be displeased if they will see the increasing transaction fee. High transaction fee will not make bitcoin popular thus it will make it unwanted. Volatility is the nature of every currency. Price fluctuates as the supply and demand is here.

Votality will settle with age. Bitcoin is still way too young to demand stability. The main problem here is miner's or transaction fees coupled with long transaction time. And as the price goes up, even 100 sat per byte fee will be  huge in $ terms.

But if the fee is too high, then there will be less incentive to use Bitcoin. People will be more tempted to use altcoins such as Ether and Litecoin, which are having low fees and faster confirmations. An ideal solution would be to keep the fees at a reasonable level, and hope for an increase in the number of transactions.

We are transitioning to a state of competing technologies on different blockchains with each providing a set of unique but well developed features, a side-effect of this competitive angle will be a burst in innovation and new technologies as we see increasing utility and scale. Were entering into a new age and the blockchain will be a critical component in it's genesis block.

I'm not a tech guy too sir but now i'm starting to understand bitcoin more You don't need to be a tech guy to understand bitcoin you just need to have the determination to learn, Maybe the fact that banks hate bitcoin is true because the reason bitcoin created is to eliminate third parties when you are doing transaction and that is what banks are exactly doing. Bitcoin is volatile because it's just starting and i don't think that the volatility of bitcoin is the reason why it will crashed, it is normal to us people that if we saw something new we always have doubt but as soon as we saw its potential we will finally recognized of that new thing.

Banks will be relevant for about 20-30 years. The banking system will work, at the expense of our parents and older people, simply because they can not absorb crypto-currency and blockchain as an alternative. Although the percentage of funds that I have with the banks' customers is very good at all times.

Well, these are the reasons why people and groups are proposing all kinds of forks that are quite unacceptable and creating divisions amongst us. There are so many proposals out there but i think we should all stick with the core devs and the solutions they will provide  for us and not those seeking their own . Ethereum will also increase in fees if it ever gets to the volume of bitcoins.

Most institutional banks make it easy for you to understand because they want you to become part of their customer database. Not because you are important for them but because your money, even though the amount is little, will be added to their global "trade and play" database.

So yes, of course, with bitcoin it is more complicated. You do not have btc ATM delivering you money you can use to buy things in your everyday life (unless you are very lucky). You do not have a clear and comprehensive guide of "how to deal with bitcoin".

Still, through the blockchain, you get security. More than any bank can offer I assume. And regarding transactin fees, actually your bank may hide them from your view but they still exist. Your bank is not a charity, they make money out of you. With your saved money but also with your current account. You pay fees, you pay because you use a dedicated website, you pay a credit card... All these are fake fees. I mean it cost nothing to the bank but they charge you anyway.

So yeah, harder with bitcoin. More expensive? I don't think so!

Well this is the first time that am hearing that in and outs of bitcoins system is that difficult to understand, in fact Its easier than the banking system is what I believe.
And come on no one needs to go and write a whole book on how bitcoins works and stuff, but rather just a small brief non technical application will do for most people and buying ans selling bitcoins and trading one on one isn't very difficult ! Its rather easier than the stock market .. and in banks you do need 1000 documents and there are 1000 rules bitcoins are way easier !
And with time society is going to get more technical so I think it wont be a problem even if u increased the complexity level.

It seems to me that bitcoin is still too poorly developed to compete with the banks. We can't buy goods with bitcoins with the same ease as we do with credit cards. The cost of banking transaction 20,000 times cheaper than transactions in bitcoin. Therefore, bitcoin is absolutely not suited right now for everyday use.

If we do see the current situation of bitcoin regarding price volatility and on its transaction time and fees then would really able to differentiate it with our traditional payment system using credit cards or any other means which we can really tell the differences on each side and we would really still prefer the old ways because we can already make it use conveniently without any hassle and talking about the fees I guess it is already lower compared to the amount which a certain bitcoin transaction do require.

Transactions fees may go up or down depending on the intensity of traffic , for example if there's something near 15k transactions waiting to be sent you'll find that there's 8 transactions done per second and that the fees don't even make it to 2.5 dollars , while when there's high volume of traffic going on like for instance now 105168 transactions are being treated you'll find 19 or so transactions per second and of course higher fees . So my advice to people is to send transactions when there's low traffic or to customize the fees of their transactions but it'll take a bit longer .

They are two affected groups out their when you relate Bitcoin with its "volatility" and "transaction fees" and that are traders and also people who use Bitcoin as a mode of payment. Technically if Bitcoin is volatile then it is more of an advantage for the trader because he has a chance to profit many times in a day however it is a bad thing for Bitcoin users who use Bitcoin as their cash. Transaction fees can also affect the latter as they will hinder additional cost for buying something that will worth lesser when bought by other forms of payment.

Well as much as it hurts, its necessary for faster transactions. I just recently experiemced having my transaction stuck in the mempool and after reading blogs, i learned that to have fasrer transactions, a higher fee is necessary so if you really need to have it done, paying a little extra shouldn't hurt that much

Time can not make bitcoin die and worthless, with more people who know about bitcoin then the demand for bitcoin will be higher, plus the use of bitcoin technology can be adapted in all businesses and projects, certainly even make the value of bitcoin more  higher

I never use accelerated transaction. I pay a minimal fee per transaction. I don't care how much time my transaction is done. If you have problems with the passage of a very important transaction, you can absolutely free to take the help of suggestions on this forum under services. But I think that still this problem must be solved at the level of developers and miners.

Transaction fees are definitely going up.

           Yeah i do agree. I don't know but when it comes to bitcoin there is some kind of unfair fees which is a bit my concern or maybe for few people here. Bitcoin has mostly fixed fees, but if you convert it to fiat in relevance with bitcoin's volatility, well i guess it goes higher. Just correct me if i were wrong but most of the times that is what i've been hearing a lot, but well anyway we are required to pay the fees for each and every transaction no offense about that.

Transactions fees will definitely going up because of this demands that also increase. This is actually most concern by the users the transactions fees are being higher each day. And most hoping this would be corrected for us to less and save btc.

Its a new technology, and as any other new invention, it is also little bit tough to underatand. I am sure when banks started for the first time, it was also not as convinient at it is now. And the trust u talk about associated to banks comes from a very long time being. Bitcoin is still new,and unknown to majority, it will also need some time to devalope more trust and securenes. It being volatile is connected to the fact that no one controls bitcoin thus no one can decide ita value or ups and lows. Anyways, butcoin is a very higu tech digital currency which is in many ways secure and corruptionless compared to paper money. We should give it a shot.

Fluctuations are truly a problem but that's the concept and ideology of bitcoin , it's based on a market cap and trading processes .
Transactions fees aren't really to be scared about since most of the time they are low or you can customize them as low as you want , only when there's a hard fork or a Segwit the fees goes up since miners effort won't be at it's full .

You are not completely wrong though. This thing will come up in the future when bitcoin will be worth millions but there won’t  be any easy way to transact it just because of heavy fees due to increased prices. Or it could be the case that bitcoin is still worth thousands of dollars but du to demand of bitcoin and less supply in the future the miners may get more work done and hence more fees. With different combination of volatility it could lead to different type of fee structure from the miner side. And as we all know, the miner can set the fees range they want so the lowest fee could be higher for our side no matter what we do. So yeah things could really get dragged to bank Doors later in the time. But let’s hoep that we come out with some exceptional ways of transacting with bitcoin. ;-)

Transaction fees will mostly increase by a petty amount. The market cap of btc is less compared to cash which explains the instability in prices of btc. Fees are much higher in other payment sources, bitcoin fees is relatively cheaper and even with fluctuations it's a promising source of income.

The transaction fees are getting slightly out of control.  :o

High fees, yes it's now become something annoying, but I'm  not blame it ,volatility did it to us, beside the volatility help us to earn more profit. At least I pay fees for something or someone that can convert my bitcoin to money or vice versa. My transaction fees not even big enough compared to their hardwork. Btw you can choose how much fees you want. If you want extra speed,why dont you use extra fees. Help them to develop from your fees. :)

It's really going up, last checked it was around $1.14 and it was the minimum customize fee with the use of blockchain.info but I know there are people who are even paying it 1-10sats/b and they really don't want to pay higher fees and as long as they can save, they will put that put even to the lowest. But all of us wants to have a fast transaction, before it was free and quick - now it was slow and more expensive together with the price of bitcoin increasing.

These two negative sides of bitcoin proves that they poorly enough to compete with the banks around the world. With the presense of volatity makes the price are pumping and dumping causing by segwit fork. This makes it the bitcoin is fasterly rise its price everyday. The good to have trust is basically what people find to make interest that bitcoin is used to.

Volatilty effect of bitcoin price is similar to happen with their transaction fees. This is will really happen because they are bind together. Each transaction fees varies immediately as soon as there is a change of price in the market. And i believe that everyone should be aware on this for us, so won't get doubted of what will happen next.

got it right mate,comparing to all transactions of bank to bank bitcoin transaction still more cheaper.and the transaction speed as well more convinient using bitcoin or crypto.at this very moment more and more transaction has being made over this community that those who normally uses banking system(ofcourse not those who know nothing about bitcoin)

Volatility is everywhere specially in this kind of market, and if you are a good trader you will not see this as a disadvantage but instead make money through this. Transaction fees really depends on the price movements so traders for sure know this.

Other wise in another section there are some person that said about the fees from the bank transaction was more cheaper than the bitcoin itself. But this time for each transaction of bitcoin cost around 5,5 dollars. i thik there is a little gap between the fees from the bitcoin transaction or banking transaction.

Yeah, smarters always make money from disadvantage and turn them into advantages. I don't know how they did it , they just did it in the magical way.

It's not poorly enough but it's not being developed well for now. There's more to come as the core developers are trying to do something to solve this thing. The fees now were calm and that's why we just have to wait for more time to see bitcoin will be transacting with a very cheap price.

Well there are 2 options. these things can counteract and make btc be adopted by everyone and leave the banks. The price is normal to be volatile as there is no center but within time it will be fixed for sure.

Banks have hundreds of years of reputation that is correct but in your post you seem to assume that is a good thing, most people hate banks, do you think people are happy to be slaves to banks for 30 years just to pay a house, when in the past such a thing did not exist, banks were useful once upon a time, but now are nothing but greed machines that needs to be stopped and bitcoin is the perfect way to do it.

I see this as obvious, while they give you good services that are easy to make transactions so you have to pay for the service that is sure.

Its true that high volatile nature of bitcoin and high transaction fee are problems for bitcoin to get accepted in main stream.But we should not forget that people buy bitcoins continuously even when such problems continue.Banks have hundreds of years of reputation and its only useful for them and not for customers.banks are just keen to exploit its user's hard earned money and that's why,people have started to feel bitcoin as a safe haven.

Volatility is okay with bitcoin because it is just normal for bitcoin to have volatility because as you can see that the demand for bitcoin is not fixed so it is very easy for bitcoin to experience some volatility but if you know how to play with it then you can make tons of money. Transaction fees is the real problem in bitcoin because it keeps on increasing that makes the bitcoin not the best option for making transactions.

This is what many are not seeing, bitcoin is being adopted despite its flaws which tell to us that the flaws in the fiat system are huge if people are willing to pay the high fees in order to get rid of their fiat, what it is going to happen once bitcoin solves all its issues, then the adoption from the general population will be huge and at that point bitcoin will be unstoppable.

Access to Bitcoins and altcoins has been cumbersome to many of us, but I think that it starting to change and will keep improving so that the average person will eventually be able to buy and use Bitcoins easily. Remember that in the early days of the internet, it was also very cumbersome and email was foreign to most of us. Also the early days of computers wasn’t very user friendly either.

I do agree that the fees and transaction times could hold Bitcoin back some and could eventually relegate Bitcoin to just a store of value and other coins could eventually pass Bitcoin in market cap.

I agree that bitcoin may be on its way towards better access. It's a phase that any invention would go through, even cars were only limited to a few people back then - mostly just the rich. It eventually became mainstream and almost everyone have cars as of this day. These are problems and complications that bitcoin has, it's transaction fees and time would hinder its users and solutions should be made for this.

no it isnt, transaction fees tend to go up if bitcoins value is increasing. its not about on how intense the traffic is or the network is congested.
transaction fees will only be stable if bitcoins value will be regulated in order for it to become centralized and less volatile but for now i guess all you gotta do is adjust the fee on your wallet before sending , to avoid unecesary problems like slower transaction or stuck/unconfirmed transactions.

I think bitcoin over time can surpass banks in terms of investment. Bitcoin has a greater interest but a high risk. I also find a way on my country to use bitcoin without any fees and i think its volatility can lead us to lore profit than not being valuable.

it seems that the effects on transactions fees and volatility outcomes for bitcoin come hand in hand. Although volatility is all over the market, since it's already expected, you can find a way to steer clear.