Bitcoin Forum

According to http://www.flippening.watch/ , ethereum surpassed bitcoin in volume, mining reward ( aka most secure chain by hashrate ) and nodes, having 4 times more. To be noted that even though ethereum has 92% of bitcoin's transactions, technically it has MUCH more because tokens that work on it aren't taken into consideration.

Which means, today, ethereum surpassed bitcoin by any metric, except for the market cap. Some of you listened to trolls and thought ethereum is a scam, some of you saw past that.

What happened to ETH would have one time or the other happened to various projects that are successful today including bitcoin itself but the issue is that whether we like it or not some people will still believe while some will not. There is no need to pick offense while others are counting their losses, some others will be counting their gain. However, the market capitalization is enough for bitcoin to be at the fore front which is something it will take a while before ETH meet up with.

I love the idea behind Ethereum. I am not sure it justifies the current market rate and adoption. I feel the drive is caused by ICOs and I strongly feel that all the ICOs launched so far are not worth investing, at least in term of true value. I understand people can still make good money by shorting ICOs, but I have not found any great implementation of the Ethereum network so far.

But that's the thing. It's hard to maintain value when you are backed by faith and not technology, usability and decentralization. That's why i never had balls to invest much into btc, i knew that one day something like this would happen.

If it eth actually surpasses btc, what do you think it will happen ? The only thing that backs it, faith, will be gone. Which means, if people sell and btc spirals down, it will be so slow that most of the value will get stuck in mempool. And eventually it will run out of buyers because people will find out about it and will simply stop buying. A mcap of 40+ bil is meaningless if no one is willing to buy because it can instantly crash.

@botolo86 true, probably half the icos launched so far are not worth investing in, but not because they're scams. But because the ideeas behind them are probably bad, and some of them do not necessarely need a blockchain. And the fact that some teams aren't very experienced.

But there are projects that attracted real titans, people with real successes. Lately so many people with 10-30 years of being succesful ( IT, finance, tech ) launched projects.

Exactly, market is driven because all of these projects and ICO.
I bought ethereum only because i needed to send some tokens which are using ethereum network. Unfortunately i was one of guys who were listening all shits about how ether is scam and I never invested in it.

the only thing that i didn't like with this project is the possibility of being dumped hard again i know its been quite a while that the price and volume were really increasing and many people speculate that it will continue to keep rising up the only matter is how long and how far in terms of value how the big holders will kept their coins and wait.

1. Any crypto can be "dumped".
2. Ether was never actually dumped, like losing 40-50% of it's value overnight. If it happened it was because btc dumped too and it affected the price.

Ofcourse, with the exception of the dao panic that caused the price to lose half of it's value in ~1month i think. But even that didn't happen over night.

I'm sorry that you listened to those goons Spoetniktard and Spartak_nt. I estimate that their 'advice' have cost you a clear $100,000.

Who said that the ethereum just a scam coin and they must cry to see the real potential of etehreum token. That means the ethereum already surpassed bitcoin regarding the technical analysis and it looks good.
How the community is always growth everytime.

Ethereum to be the number 1 is really possible.

Whatever, you can have your eth..

ETH is not what I want in a libertarian currency.. It pales in comparison to the ideals behind BTC..

I also heard the scam accusations and didn't join in.
But suppose I want to do it now, do you think it's worth it?
Will it keep going up like the bitcoin did in the last month?
What should I check before buying in?

Max coin limit..

but money is smart, it will choose the best way in the market
you can earn more ,why not?

ETH has potential just because everyone is choosing its smart contracts feature over bitcoins, which gives more power to ICOs that want to distribute their tokens in a more safer, effective way. But I still think that it is overvalued atm, it should be even more and I think it should be half the rate of bitcoins but not now because too much value can cause harm to its prestige currently.

Well that is just a mere accusations that I think they will spread out to surely downgrade ETH, but instead it really makes it even stronger, I think if bitcoin have a misunderstanding and a split is gonna happen, maybe? Ethereum has an EEA that is Enterprise Ethereum Alliance that are collectively develop industry standards and encourage collaboration between its various members. and they have remarkable names that might be a threat to bitcoin, and Vladimir Putin really makes it's way in endorsing ETH, we will never know what will happens next so I think investing with ETH have really a potential in becoming number 1.

Ideals like not working as a peer to peer electronic cash because you need 5$ to send 1 cent worth of btc. Ideals like having it centralised in a communist country that can kill btc with a switch if it suits their purpose. Ideals like having a broken governance model and not being able to adapt and survive.

Can you please explain how mining reward means most secure chain by hashrate?

this isn't some so special because etheruem has more coins issued which mean easily more volume because more coin ar eon the market to be used for trading, the meters to judge if something is better than bitcoin is the usage for me not the volume, and ETH is not used aside form pump and dump

Bitcoin maximalists brought this into existence. They kept claiming that the most secure chain by hashrate, aka the chain which pays miners the most (say, every ~24hours), is the most secure. Because by definition it is the hardest chain to 51% attack. Ethereum pays miners 9million a day, bitcoin 5mil and ETC less than 1mil. Let's look at etc. Because there's just 1 mil ( number pulled out of thin air, i didn't check ) to be shared among all miners, automatically the hashrate will be limited because you can't put as many miners to work on ETC compared to ETH, it becomes unprofitable so much faster. The less miners there are, the easier it gets if you wanna buy / rent hashrate to 51% attack.

Also other bitcoin maximalists arguments for "1 blockchain rule them all": market cap, transaction volume and trading volume. Today it is the second time ethereum surpasses bitcoin in volume. Market cap will be last. Very important to note: although ethereum has 97% of bitcoin's transactions, it surpassed it by a huge margin, because that doesn't take into account all the transactions these tokens that run on ethereum make.

@Ayers you are stupid. What i posted doesn't take into consideration the number of transaction and the volume of the tokens issued on ethereum. If it did, then etheruem would have more transactions than every other project combined, or close. I am talking about onchain ofcourse. Bitcoin has alot of offline transactions.

The volume is expressed in US dollars as seen here:

http://coinmarketcap.com/

So on this point it did temporarily exceed bitcoin.

Historically, this is likely the second time that a coin exceeded BTC volume. The first was LTC in 2015. Didn't last long.

http://coinivore.com/2015/07/09/litecoin-exchange-volume-outpaces-bitcoin-for-first-time/

The concept is that since miners are motivated by profit that as mining reward increases they invest more in equipment resulting in an increased hashrate. This increase in hashrate takes time obviously, because equipment needs to be purchased. It can also occur in the opposite direction (usually more quickly) if price drops. In that case mining equipment is taken offline as price drops rather than operate at a loss. So in general hashrate follows price and a higher price leads to increased security.

Mining profits have definitely increased at current price; but, that does not mean ETH is instantly more secure. That would take months to purchase more equipment and there simply isn't enough hashpower available for rent to have much effect.

ETH currently is somewhat unique for miners though because even with an increased price there is no motivation to purchase new equipment. With the foundations intention to abandon miners in favour of POS a miner would be a fool to invest further. Nice for miners though to currently receive a windfall before their equipment becomes useless. This lack of incentive to increase hashrate makes ETH less secure. I won't claim to know much about security once POS is implemented.

Ultimately as a turing complete solution ETH will always face security and incompetency problems as the DAO demonstrated. This is not to say these issues relate directly to mining.

this is unbelievable. I didn't think that it happens very soon. I expected that ethereum will surpass bitcoin after 5 years, not in only a few months. Damn, I need to buy more ethereum for my future or I will never have any chance to buy it with a cheap price

eth will always be a freak scam play with poloniex, like i always said eth and polo do or die by each others. when is moving to POS? never? that's what i say so.

I'm not sure what you're talking about will be right, because I see the BTC price is already high this year, and I do not know in the next 5 years what price for 1 Btc, maybe it will be higher than the current price. Because I am sure Eth will not be able to compete with Btc price, let alone have to exceed the price above Btc I guess it seems will not happen in the future.

Its good to hear that I am a big ether fan. I was reading some article about ether and ether classic scam . Ether is proving that its having strong potentiality against bitcoin . How about ethereal classic

Obviously eth hadn't surpassed btc in every metric except marketcap if we consider its price per coin as a separate criterion. Btc is far more expensive which means it is far more trusted. As for eth having more transactions than btc.. Perhaps these transactions are mostly related to trading. I don't believe eth is more used than bitcoin in real life.

not for me at least. i have no intention of ever putting money into ethereum no matter what the price. i don't have faith in its integrity, security, control over its own complexity or the current market moves.

i wish everyone luck. i'll be shopping elsewhere.

I think again dew to the bitcoin price rise and the media its had people before were not sure about crypto now getting into the alt markets because the bitcoin price is still very high.

The drive from new money flowing new miners starting and the vast amounts of trading going on between them it would bound to happen at some point.

ETH has some very amazing benefits to it and not matter what people say now its here to stay ;)

I think Ethereum will be huge I just hate Bitcoin with its transactions cost... only reason I would even hold .01 BTC is because I have FOMO

what if i sell my .15 BTC and Bitcoin goes to $10k or even $1million

How many TXs can ETH handle before it runs into the same scaling issues?

Or wait.. Do they care at all about decentralization to have a cap like BTC?

Nah, they will proly just fork it and roll back transactions if/when it breaks like usual in their centralized manner..

Miners can always use their GPUs to mine Monero instead of Ether so not much risk to buying new mining rigs.

First of all ETH and BTC are two different worlds. ETH was made to be  a gass a fuel for the network.

Because of many ICOs popping out there and because some big companies are backing it up people feel that it is a safe heaven, but every high and fast rise will eventually dump. Yes ETH can surpass btc by all means, if btc pass scaling issue I don't see that ETH will surpass bitcoin even by volume.

ETH don't have a coin limit as far as I am informed. But again it can surpass the bitcoin as BTC has scaling issues and as people tend to feel that it is not stable specially when you hear of possible chain split in august.

Still doesn't actually have any new practical application, still doesn't have a scaling solution even if it did, and it's worth 32 billion.  This is not a new paradigm, this is the next South Sea Bubble.  Put down the kool-aid people.

You're dead wrong. You're thinking that people won't buy video cards to mine because there's 1 more year left to mine, or slightly more. Keep in mind that video cards to mine eth cost 200$ not 2k usd, in the case of asics. ROI is like 1.5-2 months if you take into consideration the resale value of video cards. Yes, people sell these cards when they don't mine. Asics become garbage.

This is the most important thing that makes ethereum more decentralized and more easy to mine by anyone; mining EQ is extremely cheap, compared to btc. BTC asics have an artificial high price because of the monopoly. It probably costs them 50-100$ to build one, and charge 20 times that.

About last part; keep in mind that, whatever project fails, it doesn't mean it will affect eth price. Not every failing project has millions of ether locked in a smart contract where everyone can interact with it. That was dao's achilees heel. Everyone could interact with that contract that held all the funds. No other project does this. Naive / unknowledgeable people always assume that if a project fail millions will be lost.

If they invested in Bitcoin they would have made how much again ?
Or Litecoin ? that went from $3 to $30 ?
Or ? ...

You are a fraud.. the community knows it too but they tolerate it because they are greedy.
The scene is mostly greedy losers with no integrity.
I'm trying to get them to be honest and you are trying to make me out to be the bad guy.

Got real ?
This topic is fraud.
You are deceiving this noobs showing up.
But they want it.. so fuck 'em.
Choke to death on your scam coin bullshit for all i care.

I would never own an ICO coin period.

I don't care if it means i could brag about having 100k in Bitcoin.
See the retarded fucked up part of all this ?
You spend vast amounts of time bashing Bitcoin then tell some noobs they missed out on 100k worth of BTC profits.

BTC is so horrible that uhhh well... you need to sell ETH to get some more LOL

App's ?
Oh yeah everyone was clamoring for "App's" on a block-chain..
What a revolution  ::)

Reality ?
No one gives a shit about *USING* Ethereum.
They all simply want to profit from it.
Which means they would just as easily support ANY coin that gave them profits.

You are clowns  :D

+1

I'm fairly well invested in Ether because I kept some back from the original ICO.

But I'm nowhere near as bullish on it as most of the fevered posters on here.

For a start, I don't think it has anything close to the longevity that bitcoin has - even if if did exceed its marketcap at some point. The reason is precisely the same reason that it's booming now. (Note, I'm refering to the Eth/BTC exchange ratio. The chain might last a long time as a technology platform though).

Ethereum is the Electronic Typewriter Investment of the 1950's. It wasn't designed as a store of value in its own right, it was designed to carry equity products (who's value by the way does not directly transmit to the underlying blockchain token. You buy Ether, you don't get a stake in Golem).

Right now we are at "peak Ether" for 2 reasons:

1. It's the only smart contract chain in existence that's mature enough to host a significant number of equity models
2. We're in the middle of a storm of ICOs who's front doors require Ether but who's value does not derive from the value Ether but rather from the value of their business models

Over the net 5 years we're going to see a wave of improved smart contract chains which will have a far more competive impact on the Ether marketcap than altcoins had on Bitcoin's marketcap. Thats mainly because there was very little advantage in investing in a competing monetary token whereas there's potentially a HUGE advantage for ICOs to launch on a competing technology blockchain if it offers competitive features.

Wait and watch ;) (But I won't be going any deeper from here).

So what happens when these ICOs gets dumped or turns to complete scam? What going to be the effect on ETH?

You g'wan, boy.  Buy it awl up when it's higher then Rodney King on a good nite, then sell it low'r afta y'nuts drop off.  Y'all'd only be doin' whut everrbody else up'n this forum do, which is why you all is a buncha broke ass niggas, chasin' coins while they be sailin' out the ballpark.

same with bitcoin 👍

I knew eth is a great alt coin, but the support for eth is still too low, until there are a lot of shop accepting eth, then we can compare eth and bitcoin, all of those number only come from trading and people just do pump and dump when people think it is not profitable anymore they will find other coin

I dont think that etherum is scam.I see that etherum have a really good projects today.I more like etherum because Vladimir Putin is interensted in entherum and because I see more faster growing speed than in bitcoin price so I will start to trade with etherum.

I believe ethereum can exceed bitcoin in terms of market capitalization as well, but being the fundamental of the market aspec will never change for bitcoin. This is so obvious.

its really real now.  massive ETH sell wall dump on poloniex's BTC market right now.  was like 18M USD of it at the start

That is one very impressive wall and it appears to be real.

I hope whoever it is owns poloniex because there's no way I'd want 6000 btc trapped on there.

Bullshit.
And i am sooooo sick & fucking tired of scammy greedy idiots using that played out cliche'd fail retort.
Don't you fucking god damn compare ETH the ICO scam coin app's gimmick platform with a REAL open source digital CURRENCY.

Why ?

For one thing Bitcoin is actually used as intended.
More so than any lame ass bullshit ICO schemes for profit like Ethereum.

You are comparing a donkey to a banana.
Which makes you look stupid.

I wish i could filter out all the noob idiots.
It would be great if i could hit a check box and never have to hear a word from any little dipshit profiteers crawling in here spouting off until they at least hit Hero level.

Checked polo and the wall is gone. Was it eaten that fast ? LOL.

Also, those that claim eth has infinite supply clearly have no ideea about it's monetary policy. ETH will have about ~100mil tokens before PoS, then 1-2% inflation ( but most likely 1 ) each year, not every detail is set in stone. Anyways, in 10 years eth won't release more tokens than bitcoin anyways, so i'd say inflation is actually lower.

Also, those that complain about eth being accepted as a coin; this takes time and it's not the first thing it aims for, although there are many places that accept it, one example: https://pastebin.com/ethereum.php.

Also the token has intrinsec value, because it aims to be useful to the network not just speculation and the projects/dapps that run on it require eth. Some interesting projects, took them from reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6gqjqp/checkout_the_trustlines_network_poc_release/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6glupz/beyond_the_voidnxc_ethereum_token_just_got/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6gf51d/first_realtime_gaming_on_the_ethereum_blockchain/

Ofcourse i wouldn't look for every project out there, there are literally hundreds of them.

Still it's an ICO bubble and it will be a sad thing to watch when all the ICOs start a cashing out race.

Believe it or not, I don't think that those stats are too reliable. The value goes up as the coin bubbles so it's not a good time to compare.

Ethereum developers are trying by all means to prove that ETH can be better than BTC. Just wait until ETH is worth more than BTC. I would say in a few years to come

@baumT You do realise that, at this rate, in best case scenarion eth surpasses btc in 1-2 weeks and at worst in 2 months ?


Polo had an 1500btc sell wall and it got eaten like it was nothing. Yes icos cash out eventually, but they don't cash out all at once. They can't really drop the price unless too many cash all at once, which is a very unlikely scenario.

Ethereum as a project from the very beggining was developed much better, than bitcoin. It gets more and more support from people, companies. I think it is just a matter of time, when it will go ahead and beat bitcoin on market cap arena also :)

that's the problem as we knew that anything can happen so fast inside crypto world and most likely the one who have a big nerve will survive to this race eth is moving so fast and its really moving forward its a matter of support and development that can be introduced so real people will invest and use the system.

Can you provide some evidence?

It isn't "developed better than bitcoin" when it comes to monetary properties (for store of value).

Bitcoin has superb monetary properties whereas Ethereum's are more aligned with fiat: their priority is to monetise the value in smart contracts (just as fiat's is to monetise the debt in manual contracts).

There are several long term implications of that - one of which is that Ethereum is not destined to be unique. Consequently it's subject to obsolescence as new and 'smarter' chains come over the horizon. Electronic typewriters superseded manual ones, then mainframes superseded them, then desktop PC's superseded mainframes. Throughout that time, monetary assets such as gold continued growing in purchasing power while stocks in those technology markets rotated through their phases of novelty and obsolescence.

Thats the difference between Bitcoin and Ethereum. It isn't technological, its about monetary properties.

ETH = The Electronic typewriter
BTC = The gold

What ? I just stated the obvious, i thought everyone could do a thinking exercise and come up with that.

Eth will become the strongest currency on this planet and bitcoin will have to move to 2nd place on the market cap chart. If bitcoin can not fix the block size issue, it will be surpass by ethereum in the next few months

For a while...until it gives way to EOS. Which will be the strongest
for a while...until it gives way to Tezos. Which will be the strongest
for a while...until it gives way to Rootstock. Which will be the strongest
for a while...until the markets noticed that they were all technology stocks while Bitcoin was the only monetary stock that kept gaining value the whole time.

https://i.imgur.com/xwyY05R.png

It is just a qestions whn this bubble will burst, here I found really nice blog post that explains the situation of ethereum right now : https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/i-was-wrong-about-ethereum-804c9a906d36 by WhalePanda

He really points out some of the major issues within ethereum and also you can conclude some biggger picture of cryptocurrency and shitcoins, really well written. I will advise you guys to read it if you have time.

There you go. Another pointless thread made by this mining1 shithead and "supported" by his alt Mindlesscache. Ethereum is and will remain a long prepared pump, which was orchestrated by the whales behind it. I'll only say one thing. If Ethereum is better than Bitcoin, then I guess ETH won't need a BTC pair? Let's see what happens with Ethereum if exchanges remove their ETH/BTC pairs?

You can't figure out ? I thought so. Please, let me enlighten you. ETH will take BTC's place and will be paired against ALL other cryptocurrencies. The trollBOX will stroke their penises to a climax when their favorite gamble will reach 0.001ETH in price. Although eth will lose BTC trading volume ( it dies if it loses first place ), won't make a difference because it will get much more volume by being paired against hundreds of cryptos and against all fiat currencies that matter.

So please delete this extremely bad argument before others see it;

I always stand behind my words, unlike you and your alt Mindlescache, shithead. I also saw your "attack" on Hoskinson - it was something, which only "keyboard warrior" like you can do. You did nothing fruitful in/for this community and I bet if I put my ass next to your face people will think we're twins. 

It wasn't an attack. It was a truthful statement. The guy carries the ethereum name around and tries to capitalise on it. But the guy admited it himself that he left BEFORE the project even started. Basically he's a founder because he was in the same room with vitalik and other ~50 people and were talking about the future of the project. And he left because they REFUSED to take money from VCs ( look where blockstream and bitcoin core is now ) and made an ICO instead. And now he's throwing with shit at his ex colleagues every time he has the chance. Such an amateur.

You claim to be a righteous person. If that's the case, it's impossible to not agree with what i just said.

Edit: to be noted, i don't claim he is bad at his job or he is a scammer or something like that. It's about his character and integrity, he lacks them. Attacking your colleagues over a dissagreement over funding is so low, while at the same time he joined etc, a project build by them. And he's praising it now ( while still throwing shit at his colleagues and eth ).

Also, chandler gao and other mining whales didn't support etc because they believe in it. Barry and hoskinson needed their support, and they saw an opportunity to double their money ( assuming they would have managed to flip it over ). That is why the monetary policy is ~230mil tokens, aka 300% inflation.

I was also optimistic see both volume on http://www.coinmarketcap.com of Ethereum volume over passed that of bitcoin first time today. It is a great breakthrough for ethereum as it  happened very easy. In market capitalization, I think before the end of this week it might surpasses.

Great ? ahahah  :D

And why would a shop accept ETH ?
It's not a currency.. they are "fuel tokens" for making Smart contracts work.
You profiteers are buying scammy ICO coins and you don't even understand the gimmick.

..good luck with that :D

This crypto-crap is just a swirling vortex of idiocy and greed.

@mining1
Launching a scammy ICO is "low"
And so is bashing a guy every chance you get over his gud haircut.
Hypocrisy much fraud boy ?
The kettle might be black bruh hahahhaha  :D

you should not be surprised. This is the most unpredictable market ever. Maybe ethereum will be 1M instead of bitcoin?

So ethereum has more transactions than bitcoin ( probably atleast 50% times more, if you include the tokens that aren't taken into account ), more volume, and i've sent a transaction that got first confirmation in ~15seconds.

I think there is room for Ethereum and Bitcoin to co-exists for a certain time.
Ethereum will probably surpass bitcoin market cap in the following days (only 8 mio marketcap to go !). Ethereum tokens will follow and pump too. If I had some btc available, I would split them into the top ten ethereum tokens. Ethereum will also probably become the default pair for the ethereum tokens, instead of btc. In fact, it would be more logical ...

There is, ofcourse. But bitcoin needs badly 2-4mb blocks and LN. And hopefully in ~2 years it's devs will be capable enough to copy ethereum's sharding, because LN isn't scaling enough, 99.999% users don't open payment channels.

Ofcourse, LN isn't yet fully tested. I think there are a few no name projects who have it, but they don't have any volume so it's hard to say wether or not is safe to use at a large scale.

You can smell Spartak_nt and Spoetniktards butt hurt from here. It's not too late the jump on the ETH moonship. Flippening any day now.

That's okay. It still has it's memes. Bitcoin will become silver to ethereum's diamond. Sorry litecoin, you lost silver status.

http://www.flippening.watch/ says it's flippened already, just market cap is still higher.

You present sharding as if it's better yet in other posts claim you are a non-technical person. So how can you make these claims without understanding how it works? Even a layman is capable of understanding that as you break the Ethereum network into smaller and smaller components that security drops substantially. If network activity increases (or scales with more transactions being required) breaking it into smaller and smaller components would be required to keep up. Less and less security in what is supposed to be a trustless system. The "supernode" in this system is nothing more than a form of inefficient centralization. And a much weaker form of centralization because of poor security at lower level nodes.

I get it. Sharding is a fun experiment and might be useful on smaller private blockchains. Claiming it's the final answer though, while dismissing solutions such as the Lightning Network seems somewhat disingenuous. Especially when you admit that you lack the technical skills to understand either.

Because it makes sense even to a non technical person. Currently, all blockchains are single threaded, where all nodes verify all transactions. In sharding a number of nodes verify each transactions and not all of them. Easy. It only sucks if there are too few nodes, it's not the case. Currently ethereum has 35k nodes, that's 5 times more than buttcoin. Seriously speaking, today even ~1k nodes are enough today if they are spread in many countries.

Also the security is kept up in place by incentives. You can't attack unless you know you have 51% or you lose everything. And ethereum in casper can recover from 51% attacks, pow systems like bitcoin can't. Wether or not sharding will work it's about wether or not they find a good balance between tradeoffs. Even without sharding ethereum can scale well, although not as good according to Vitalik. And yes, i do trust more what Vitalik says that btc trolls. Casper was demoed with ~3.5sec block times many months ago.

Just wait for ethereum blockchain to grow and see how many people will be willing to run a node that will require like 1TB. Yes one TB is not to much but it is for a regular consumer who don't give a damn about the technology behind it. It doesn't matter if ETH take over I will still be happy with my BTC as for me ethereum foundation has stacked up a pile of ether  when they release the POS which is richer getting richer scheme they will just accumulate more...

Anyway cryptocurrency is far away from becoming main stream if it is ETH or if it is BTC I don't care. People are seeing it as a way to profit and profit is all, some "early adopters" don't exchange to fiat because they have tons and tons but rather they are looking for ways to spend the amount that they have and to accumulate more. Crypto currency is still far away for "ordinary people" everyone loses backups when they don't want to as there is no 3rd party authority it is easy to lose your funds + newcomers are not aware that transactions can't be reversed. Idea like idea is great but again neither ETH nor BTC have solutions in my opinion to get closer to ordinary people that want everything to be easy. Adding to that that both blockchains will just grow which will result that only centralized places will run 24/7 or full nodes.

ETH doesn't solve a damn, yes it has smart contracts, yes fees are lower, yes blocks are faster but still it ain't some super tech stuff that we need. It was designed to be a decentralized supercomputer in a way. But it still have some bugs and some major issues that need to be taken seriously. Time will tell and we will see which one has higher market cap. But for me to use it more often it will need to have a stable price as this is one of the things that I don't like about crypto currency - to be stable so that I can be confident to use it. Not to be used to speculate ETH has risen very fast which ain't good if I am customer and if I buy something today for lets say 0.5 ETH tomorrow it will be worth 0.3ETH this problem even BTC haven't solved because it simply can't go against the markets as people see it to profit and as an asset rather than as a real currency.

Problem is not the market cap, the problem is making it usable and for it to go mainstream if that is what we all aim for to have a decentralized currency that we can all trust.

I don't disagree that Vitalik is smart. You made a claim that the Lightning Network won't work. It's like you're dismissing a lot of other smart people who are working on that. In the same  sentence you dismissed "99.999%" of users as if they can't open a payment channel (do you think most folks are stupid? maybe that's not even a question that needs asking.). That will likely be automated for example a retailer's payment address could make it self evident that it's via the Lightning Network and the wallet will automatically send it that way. The user won't care about how it was sent, just that it cost next to nothing in fees.

I understand that you're invested in ETH; but, dismissing Lightning technology because you don't get it doesn't add to your argument.

You quote the number of nodes as if they will continue to be online. The number of nodes was higher for BTC and LTC were much higher when mining with GPUs. Simply because almost anybody with a opencl capable video card could mine. Going to POS will reduce the number of nodes considerably.

Sharding is cool; but, the "super computer"will still be hundreds of times slower than a cell phone. The ETH community claims that 1000s of DAPPs will run on that slow computer, that ETH can act as a world currency, that lawyers can be replaced with smart contracts and many other concepts. There have been several examples of the Network slowing to a crawl lately and that is without a single popular DAPP in existence. Even with sharding the network will never be able to run more than a handful of DAPPs if any ever become popular.

I've always agreed that Ethereum the Platform is interesting technology. So are its many competitors. It will be useful for some international businesses to work together on a private blockchain. The claims made for the potential of the ETH token and public chain are almost criminal though. Lot's of non-computer literate people have been sucked in by that.

Vitalik is smart, but he made some stupid decisions (i.e. "advising" number of ETH based projects). Now he's tweeting he will no longer do it and that he didn't took a cent from most of them, but this is not important (and I personally don't care). Hypocrisy at its finest! Make 10s (or maybe even 100s) of millions $, then act you're not the bad guy here. If some of them turn into scams (or do some bailout like the EF foundation did with The DAO), then it's ALL ON HIM and him only. He said that he can help them if he makes Ethereum better. HEEEELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?! THAT'S THE MAIN POINT, MR. BUTERIN! But instead YOU choose to give them free "advises", which eventually may cost millions (if not billions) of $ to the masses.

I will say it again - I don't like Ethereum, because of what it is - a machine to make some people millionaires. A token (or whatever) fueled by bunch of market manipulators and a gas for 105 Million ICOs. 

This is the same for bitcoin and every single altcoin. I would say less than 1% of people buy any crypto for its usecase they all buy it to become millionaires.

That's not my point. If you develop/participate in some currency and have some stable growth over the next few years and you make you some money out of it - then, in my views - its all good. 

1% is too much actually on counting on those people who do buy all altcoins that do launch or new on the market and this is real because they do really hope that they wont miss again the train on becoming a millionaire.Its still okay as long you do have the money to spent on. Speaking on the topic,ETH have really progress as of now compared to previous year and it do really happen just like on bitcoin too.

So why isn't it the same for Ethereum? I mean it has definitely exploded in growth hasn't it? Isn't it the same as bitcoin did previous when it was still the new thing?

Comparing Ethereum with Bitcoin only proves you're not getting it...

Bitcoin is a currency and it's used as such.

Ethereum is an ICO "fuel Token" platform where guys created more coins to run more schemes for profit.

You are comparing a fraudulent accounting scheme.
What we see with ETH is like the movie Inception.. a scammy ICO within an ICO for profits.
ICO INCEPTION SCAMMYNESS !

So your numbers are a swirling tornado of bullshit.

It's like saying Sharknado was a better movie than "The Shining" because it was watched more.

You are posting deceitful bullshit with fraudulent numbers.
You ETH scammers are simply exploiting the position you are in and the crowd showing up.
You fought the other guys with manipulation to make sure you were in the no. 2 spot.
Once that is achieved you can then kick back and let the lemmings piling in "use" your coin.
..for profits.
The reality is they all would have used any coin ranked as no. 2 on Coinmarketcap.

The crowd simply roll in here and start buying what ever is in the #2 slot cap wise.
Whether it's a scammy launched rigged centralized failed APP's gimmick ICO scheme coin is of no concern to them.. because ?
It went up in price and it's ranked no. 2.

Which is why a guy named Charles would capitalize on the name of it too.
It's all exploitation.. like you are doing here counting inception ICO stats in your main stats.
It's all a deceptive bullshit charade of lies and crap to sucker in idiots to inflate your bullshit scam coin so you can get...

BITCOIN.

..and then bad mouth the shit out of it of course  :D

Ethereum =  the scammy ICO "Sharknado" of crypto.

https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sharknado.jpg

@lizardbtc i see you're a bitcoin maximalist, but you're also not very bright. ETH's real data is about ~10GB and the chain will be pruned 100 % securely. Bitcoin can't do this.

@shyliar i didn't say LN doesn't work. I said it's not fully working / not properly tested. And it's not me who says this, but btc devs. Also LN can't help in most cases because opening a channel is expensive, so only businesses will. Those who implemented LN already did it for the hype value without fully testing.

@sparta_k he is not just smart, you're like a chimp next to him. You make claims you have no ideea if they're true, yet you make them. Most of these wannabe projects that put him as an advisor never talked to him or best case scenario he answers few questions to help them with advices etc. Not really "official" advisor as people would expect, aka working on the project more or less.

Lol, you're salty because he made millions. Why wouldn't he ? He deserves it. He made ethereum work, so far. Not fully working because it still needs scaling, but working. He has done something that other "geniuses" only talked about, in theory.

Now you're proving your ignorance again. Do you have any ideea the rate at which startups fail ? It's ~90%. Expecting 100% from the ethereum startups because you're a "perfectionist" in expectations ( from others ) makes you look silly at best.

I'm a realist and very rational, and i expect most startups in ethereum to fail, as it is normal with any other startup in real world. But there will be very cool ones, and there are about ~10 or more extremely promising and useful.

haha well I learned a lot about bitcoin, I don't say that ETH is bad tho... just I do have lack of knowledge there (I know some things about ETH but prob not enough). Thats why there is this thread to confront each others opinions and to understand each other rationally and hopefully that we all learn something out of this. Mostly I just care for the use case not which coin I will be using in the future, thats why some alts even started to be "better bitcoin" which makes a competition within crypto currency. Which one will have the best features and the one that wins stays long in the game, thats how it is the best to develop something when you have competition when you have something that will motivate you to work more and to develop or "steal" ideas.

However I was reading that ETH blockchain is larger than bitcoin one or I found false statement somewhere?

For once Spartak_nt is correct: ETH is top dog.

Its quite a milestone when bitcoin loses its dominance to a single altcoin where just a few weeks ago we were talking about bitcoin vs the entire market.

One is a digital currency and the other is a scammy rigged unfairly launched ICO scheme for profits where the dev dumped on the public unlike Satoshi.

Want to compare to Bitcoin ?
No fucking problem.. lets do it fraudcache.

By the way.. welcome back LOL
The two of you are back together again eh ?

All i know is..
I came to support a currency.. not profits off APP's platform gimmick ICO fuel-tokens for profits.
I would not support any ICO let alone one with such a checkered past of drama / scammyness.
ETH has had an air of deceit and fraud surrounding it since day 1.

It doesn't scale ?
I'd be more worried about it being a complicated and convoluted insecure gimmick platform destined to fail catastrophically... like when the DAO hacker raped Ethereum.

Then we have the actions of the crew behind it.
They bought all the coins up on launch day in 100 BTC chunks.
Then had a huge list of strangers mentioned in the about page getting printed free coins as "employees"
Then we seen a strange thing going on with Coindesk who took to spamming on about it non stop just before it was going to launch.

Then we have the market manipulators and hype spam crew team that were hired to spam about it.
Funny how there was a year where a wall was set at $12 basically eh ?

Ethereum is the realization of Bitcoin rich guys colluding with big money to launch a scheme for profits.
Look at the players behind it and their checkered scammy past.

I have never owned an ETH "fuel token" nor would i.. i don't support scams.
I just hope US 3 letter agencies are coming after you like they did with Ripple.

All we ever see is a few noob accounts show up here and post lies and fraud about ETH to lure in kids with lunch money.
Big Banks ? ANON ? IBM ? Putin ? Microsoft ? ..the list goes on and on.
You frauds will come here and say anything to sucker naive brats into the scam pyramid APP's scheme.

And now ethereum is very close in market cap to bitcoin now it is at a distance of 9 billions but some days ago it was closer, it seems it is just a matter of time before Ethereum will surpass bitcoin in that category as well.

"Attacking" me on a personal level doesn't work and I already proved this. I may be like a chimp next to him, but I have my fair share in this world and I'm happy with it.

He should make billions, not millions, but you are again missing some important things, which were implied. No worries though, you will understand them one day when you finish Elementary school and you become a bit older (but not smarter... this is mission impossible).

I do have some slight idea as I was one of the first cable Internet providers in Bulgaria, when I was 22 years old + I had some other business ventures in my life. And what did you do? You've read 105 threads in this forum and become an expert on how do startups work?  

The OP here is shady.
Those two mining guys are possibly the same person if not in the same room together etc.
I posted a picture here before of Butters and his buddies on laptops in the same room.
Not sure though because they go to great lengths to hide all personal info.
Then attack others over theirs !

But what bugs me about those two and a couple other accounts used during the great hype campaign is they are deliberately deceitful and predatory with what they post.

These horrendous shills have not been trying to be fair or honest etc.
They arrange these "News" stories with a dishonest slant.

I do not respect predators here preying on the vulnerable.

And they clearly attacked Spartak lots about his looks because they are threatened.
Shady and childish tactics.. like their so called "News".

The SEC put out a PDF and an official alert warning because of frauds like this guy.
I found it / posted it pretty much the day it was issued here on the forum..

https://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf

http://i65.tinypic.com/35d2536.jpg

It's slightly bigger for now (i think, not sure). Keep in mind that ethereum is processing much more tx/s than bitcoin. What you're seeing on statistics sites like http://www.flippening.watch/ where ethereum even had 110% of bitcoin's tr, well they do NOT take into consideration the tokens transacted on top of it. And there are ~50 crypto tokens built on top of ethereum that have their own transactions. Which means ethereum probably is processing easily ~50% more tx/s than bitcoin, onchain.

Also, the size is a not a problem. If you resync you get a pruned version which is 20gb. And the actual data is 10GB ( the rest has something to do with nodes, i am not technical ). According to vitalik, ethereum chain can be pruned safely without compromising security. Different tech than bitcoin. This is why ethereum will have a light client where one merkle branch can verify the state.

The first ICO to cash in wins. Self interest and human nature kinda makes it inevitable. The fact is that it would be foolish to not cash in before the next guy does.

Even the Ethereum Foundation has sold about 30 percent of their holdings in the past few months (see link). What ICO wouldn't follow their example. Summer vacations are going to be excellent this year.

https://etherchain.org/account/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e40f4cb697bae#txsent

How about ETC? When it will be like ETH? I guess within 2 years?

Explain in detail how ETH is a scam.

Everyone cal say SCAM, prove it.

Nice try, they warn about scammers that joined / will join this new ecosystem as a whole.

Nice try with your bullshit news counting pointless ICO coins on top of another pointless ICO coin.
It's ICO faggotry inception.  ::)

Oh and a pyramid scheme is an "ecosystem" too fraudboy..

I've never heard of any either by the way so i guess they are great huh ..all 50 of them.

Oh and i hope the others copy your scam news angle too like they did with the Azure bullshit.
..as i predicted Stoat ;)

I predict once again the other gimmick platform coins such as cryptonote or what ever will copy this "news"

You're a fraud and ETH is scammy.

Hey bro.. i hear you like ICO PONZI's
So i put an ICO Ponzi in your ICO PONZI !  :D

Shit just got real ?

Look at the prices of ALL coins on the cap..
All of them are inflated and bloated beyond comprehension.
This shit is seriously messed up fucking shit big time !

None of these "coins" should be priced at where they are.. except maybe BTC/LTC.

What is going on is sheer lunacy.
Shit got real ?
Uhh no shit got UNREAL !

This crap is a joke.

Top or tough dog to beat.. whatever ETH is going miles away already..

Maybe they are haters!!

You and haircut 100 Spartak_nt should apologise immediately for your outright lies and FUD spreading over ETH. You have lost each single poster who believed your shit $100,000 and a mortgage free life, if not a decent quantifiable quota of hookers and blow.

Everyone now knows what disgusting characters you both are.

You are right!

A rising tide lifts all boats  ;D

I agree with you the future of ethereum looks bright it may suprrassed bitcoin in the future. ethereum could be worth more than bitcoin very soon, This is just the beginning of ethereum we can expect more from it, people who say it's a scam will realize it and regret when it's too late.

The silence from Haircut100 Spartak_nt and his goon sick sockie sidekick Spoetniktard is deafening. Remember kids these tards cost you, at the very least, a mortgage free life.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/59/7d/06/597d06107335a4fb4ee7c78807091fde.jpg

Why don't you show us your haircut, mining1? I will be glad if we even meet in person. Then we can measure our dicks if you want to - I had mine posted on IRC's topic some 16-18 years ago. This much I care about your opinion (but the difference here is that I CAN DO IT). All you can do is to hide behind your keyboard.

Most people calling it a scam are those who were already too late and need to find excuses to themselves as to why they didn't invest. Those people will never be satisfied and will keep calling it a scam until the end of time.

Put some more shills here to comment, this is not enough.

Well of course you had yours 'posted on IRC' because no one could believe an erectile cock the size of a thimble was ever possible, apart from during the touring outlawed circus freakshows. You had it posted in shame. If you were so proud of it you would have said 'I posted'!! Fact is people love to laugh at you, whether it be dodgy haircut or small penis. In fact I'm just posting your hairdo online. Come back in 16-18 years time and claim people aren't laughing at you. Your barber needs shot. 

I already addressed your accusation on that here.
I simply pointed out how all coins and plenty of others did - Even BITCOIN shot up super high !
As a matter of fact i posted that again about 3 comments back too.
AND ...
I also said i myself had probably tripled or quadrupled my money simply doing nothing
AKA: sitting on BTC.

May i ask do you ever get tired of being wrong ?

And it is you who is the fraud here.
Minecache was actually voted a fraud unanimously.
And many suspect you are the same person.. or in the same room with the other anon puppet shill.

Spartak and myself have been open and up front about things.
You two and stoat etc have not.
You are the crew of shady ETH shills that show up when prices go up and then vanish when they drop.
Making grandiose claims to noobs here with deliberately deceitful "news".

I would never kill my credibility by saying the stupid shit you and the other fraud shill says.
And i mention the other guy because he has a similar name and posts the same thing along with you.
Where one shows up the other is not far behind..

Spartak and myself do not post random comments about price increases predicted..
To go along with comments like "Big banks are buying shitloads of ETH"
Or IBM or Microsoft us "using" Ethereum.
Or Putin is meeting Butters because they want to use ETH for Russia etc etc.

Your creative accounting practices on this very topic illustrate the type of shit you pull here all the time.

You make wild claims to advertise Ethereum the ICO scam coin that are based on deceit.
Such as how you derived the numbers here in the first post.. that is fraudulent.

And i don't see how you can judge a guys haircut here if we don't get to see yours.

Bottom Line:
I often agree with Spartak but we have not always.
What i respect is he is trying to be real here and genuine.
He is not trying to deceive and manipulate people with fraudulent "news" to pad his wallet.
We need more Spartak's around here !
And less mining ETH fraudboys.