Bitcoin Forum

ETH community are busy building something remarkable.  Bitcoin people are busy arguing like pussies for three years while making no progress at all.  Very soon ETH market cap is going to pass the Bitcoin market cap.  Guess the date and win a prize!!!  

Presently: 43 / 35.  ETH is now 81% of Bitcoin's total market cap (http://coinmarketcap.com/) value.  It won't be long now.

I guess July 18, 12:01:01!  

no one smart cares much about the market cap. as that can swing..
plus the market cap is just measuring how much the fools can get when the exit back to fiat.. missing the point of crypto's features and benefits


what would be best to look out for is when/if merchant adoption via bitpay/coinbase 'flips' away from bitcoin.. then things will really change

It happens on my B-day, 29 June. Cuz im flippin' kewl. :)

I also don't think market cap does make a difference when it comes to users who are contributing to the coin they are using in the first place. :-[\

And in this moment and time the winner of this distinction goes to bitcoin.

The king of all crypto. 8)

And if fools will panic and exit all together, they will get much less then today's cap)

Yes, market cap can swing.  So what?  What does that prove?  

Merchant adoption is just one of the many uses of crypto.  It also happens to be the very dumbest.  Even in a shit system like Bitcoin, merchant use is pathetically unimportant.  Merchants don't even have the bandwidth to deal with 'debit or credit?'.  They will never tolerate garbage overhead necessary with bitcoin payments.  Merchant adoption is the very last application in both Bitcoin and Ether.

Clearly, you don't understand about crypto-platforms.  

Answer me this riddle: why are nearly ALL the majors like universities, governments, banks, industry, business, vigorously targeting Ethereum now?  It is because the 3 years of infighting at Bitcoin has run everyone off.  They are off doing new cool things on non-hostile platforms.  

The Flippening is happening!  

You won't stop that.


Keep saying that while your miserable fortune dwindles yet even further each day until the Flippening.

don't waste your time arguing with ethereum advertisement team :D
they already know what you are trying to tell them, probably better than you and I!
for now i am counting the days to first big ICO scam in ethereum and trying to guess who is the first to take his multi million dollar worth of free money out of ETH...

meanwhile ETH transaction fees are also skyrocketing, $1.4 on average :o

You're implying that market cap is all that matters though m8. That's a mistake because it doesn't come down solely to how much money is in something, for example gold and fiat; there's more fiat (and has a higher market cap) but gold is viewed very differently from fiat and, while having a market cap smaller than fiat, is "more" valuable in certain aspects.

I'm not saying BTC or ETH is gold and the other crypto is fiat, it's just a comparison. I can use any other form of stock or commodity to illustrate the same point, while being a weaker comparison.

If you think Ether is competing with Bitcoin for merchant transactions you don't understand what Ethereum is offering. Ether tokens represent computing power on Ethereum's blockchain platform, it's not a monetary currency to buy goods and services. (The Ethereum folks mention this on their website).

The "market observers" who coined the word "the Flippening" are confusing too many people. This isn't about Ether replacing Bitcoin. It's about the investment value of bitcoin the currency and ether the computing power token. It's frustrating that so many people are confusing this key detail.

From a Coindesk article on the FLippening "branded 'The Flippening' by market observers, this new hypothetical is defined loosely as the point at which a competing blockchain network could replace bitcoin as the largest and best capitalized blockchain." (http://www.coindesk.com/flippening-will-ether-pass-bitcoin-will-mean/ (http://www.coindesk.com/flippening-will-ether-pass-bitcoin-will-mean/))

This "guess the date" question is like guessing when the market cap of Google exceeded the market cap of the Euro.

The only similarity is that since the crypto market is so small some money that was invested in Bitcoin is likely being sold to invest in Ethereum....not as a currency but because the price per token is sky rocketing.

Another pathetic post.... ETH has risen in value BECAUSE OF ICOs they are locking up the ether without spending it and more people are throwing their money on something that they don't know, they all want to flip and earn a buck. This can continue for some time but at end bubble will burst and it won't end up well for ethereum. All of you are saying "smart contracts" but please explain to me is there any great smart contract there?

ETH just have a great marketing campaign with these ICOs it wasn't designed to be like money, more like gass for the network. Nothing can happen over night. Market Cap doesn't mean a thing, do I see more places accepting ETH? Even if ETH gets the first place in market cap bitcoin will still be here it won't disappear it's not the end of the world. 

Don't call Bitcoin people to be pussies as this means you told me that and also said that for yourself as I see that you have 400posts or so here? Bitcoin is more decentralized thats why it takes time, while on the ethereum devs have full control they can press the button and do what every they feel that is right thing to do, which enables them to be a bit faster than bitcoin in making decisions.

lol
1. the market 'cap' has nothing to do with how much capital is invested..
its just silly maths of taking the valu of a single coin. and multiplying it by circulation..
i said in other topics anyone can make an altcoin with 5 trillion premined coins.. sell 1 coin for $1 and bam $5trillion cap..

what means a heck of alot more is not market cap... but utility..
all im saying is.. all a 'flippening' does is show a crappy flip of a numeric figure.. but has no meaning of real use/purpose.
i would care more about a flippening event. if the flippening involved a measure of something more concrete. like user adoption/utility, employee's working on projects, ... not just an empty number like market cap

That doesn't exclude it's used that way.

We can also say "Bitcoin tokens represent a share of the proof-of-work power used to secure the network."

Both currencies - Bitcoin and ETH - are not ideal for buying goods and services because both have some kind of intrinsic volatility (Bitcoin because of its long-term deflationary model which attracts "investors" (=hodlers) and mining investment cycles, ETH because of the inflationary model which leads to selloffs from time to time). But they can perfectly be used that way.

I still think ETH will not reach the acceptation of Bitcoin as a currency because their blockchain is too big - a full node is becoming very expensive for average users with consumer hardware. A "flippening" could occur, above all if there is a chain split, but that doesn't mean instantly that ETH has a larger network/ecosystem.

So my tentative date is "August 1", if and only if there is a chain split.

Average might not be the best measurement in this case. I'd also want to know the median btc fee vs. eth fee.


What's the prize?  :D

I will guess 7/17/17 @ 17:17:17 UTC  ;)

Even though ETH might surpass bitcoin's marketcap, it can't be valued more than bitcoin any anytime soon. ETH total supply is really high compared to BTC and it also have non zero inflation. Also we know every person in ETH foundation who hold millions of ETH in the name of development, so there will be always risk of sudden dump.

Yep I totally agree with you and everything I wanted to say you said it, anyways I will answer the OP's question regarding the flippening. My prediction would be end of next week, no exact date but that's just my speculation.

This is absolutely correct. Ethereum's "value proposition" is unique and notable: instead of the developer or owner of the server paying for computing power (paying for AWS for example), the user pays for it. It could be valuable for some solutions, but which, and when, is anybody's guess. Nobody right now is taking it seriously, because the system is not reasonably secure enough to invest real money into building production applications for it. And as it "scales" via centralization, CIO concerns about Ethereum's stability and security will continue to increase and chances of seeing production applications decrease.


Also 100% correct - "market cap" is a hype term used by speculators that play the greater fool theory and don't understand cryptofinance at all. They benefit from the general rising tide of crypto markets (same as the .com "traders" in 2000), but will not do as well long term as the people that understand the value drivers.

This reply looks very interesting and reasonable at the same time. It would be really great to see the OP's reply to this.

I was always thinking that Ethereum is a good investment but I never thought that you can't buy goods with ETH. Is that true? I thought theoretically we can buy goods with any coin.

+1

ETH shitposters are coming out of the woodwork...there's a reason they attack "Bitcoin" social networks.

It's really unexpected that ETH able to reach this far.
I was think that nobody able to defeat bitcoin ( when bitcoin on first and LTC on second position )
Hope that bitcoin project will keep exist although ETH able to beat him one day

Every altcoin is still kid in front of king of altcoins i.e. BTC. Every altcoin have its own advantage and disadvantage however every altcoin is unique in its own term too. So be smart to stick with on most of them.

You probably can buy things with ETH, you just need to find someone willing to sell you goods/services in exchange for ETH. Most people aren't attracted to ETH for use as a payment mechanism, because it's fundamentals make it no better at payments than Bitcoin (perhaps worse).

Do you know the real reason why these discussions are never ending and there are argument from different corners,it is because it is decentralized and no one has an edge over the other and it will take a long time to settle things and that is not the case with ETH,if they plan something they could make changes tomorrow . :P I joined bitcoin because it is decentralized and i do not want to sign up for a centralized coin.

Mark my words. The so called "Flippening" is never going to happen. Bitcoin will continue as the no.1 crypto, no matter what happens in August. And I have got bad news for all those who have invested their hard earned bucks in Ethereum. A major correction is on its way in August. I expect ETH to lose as much as 90% of its value against the USD.

Utility is extremely subjective, because it's hard to measure how many merchants these things are used at.  While I agree that bitcoin is used at far more merchants than ETH, that's something that wouldn't change gradually, whereas money can change more gradually.  Speculation is mostly based on what people perceive to be something's future utility, rather than its current utility.

A less subjective way of looking at it would be Google search trends (https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=ethereum,bitcoin), because then you know how many people are interested or getting involved in each thing.  If we look at it by that measure, the Flippening is about 42% of the way there.

I really doubt that it is going to happen, because ETH is just a very hyped bubble with no real use and only promises so far, and the only way I see the Flippening happening is because of Bitcoins forking. So, my prediction would be August 6, as a result of messy mining and trading fight between supporters and opponents of BIP 148. But chances of this actually happening are pretty low.

I know all of you big ALTCOIN lovers or as I like to call them, shitcoins, are going to come here and say well look at all this innovation ETH has. Look at the market cap, the trade volume, this and that and so on and so forth. But none of you are ever going to try to compare the REAL USAGE of the coins when it comes to people accepting it as a currency. Do you see many online shops accepting ETH? No, you don't and you're not going to see that.

That's the difference when it comes to these altcoins and Bitcoin. Bitcoin is being used as it should be, as a currency. Eth is pretty much just a coin that people are using to trade. ETH is simply the gold of bitcoin that's being manipulated by tons and tons of whales.

So, I'll predict a date - never.

if it ever happens, it'll happen within the next few days or weeks.

do i care? i do not. the longer ethereum has been around the more separate it's become from anything to do with bitcoin.

Whether or not you can 'buy goods' with ETH isn't so interesting.  You merely need a counterparty who agrees.  It reminds me of the Lamborghini dealer who sells cars for bitcoin - who the fuck cares?!  That isn't an indicator that bitcoin is powerful and becoming widely accepted, it just means some Lamborghini dealer will handle the conversion to fiat on his end.  Yet the community takes this a 'proof' of bitcoin's versatility.  Not all in the Bitcoin community are so sharp.

Ethereum is a platform that will support many, many remarkable types of transactions and relationships between parties and especially where those relationships include transfer of value.  Bitcoin is similar, but the general purpose platform is very seriously limited.  Bitcoin has been devised to support the primary application: currency.  Ethereum will have many application and certainly does support the 'currency' application.  But nobody in the Ethereum project really cares about the currency application because there is so much important stuff to work on for now.  currency and merchant adoption are very low on the importance list.  They will come later.  For now, the whole team is building the engine room.  Silly apps are of much concern until later.  

But the big thing to pay attention to is this: 1) Ethereum is being worked very seriously, everyday, by thousands of smart people in many companies, i.e. even Microsoft.  Conversely, Bitcoin 'leaders' are fighting like little schoolgirls as Adam Back tries to push Bitcoin into a corner for monopolization of transactions on his Lightning Network.  Bitcoin has made zero technical progress in 3 years.   2) Ethereum functionality is HUGE when compared to Bitcoin functionality.  Even if Bitcoin decided to liberalize the scripting - it will be a silly joke compared to Ethereum.  Bitcoin hasn't liberalized scripting.  The opposite.  Bitcoin hasn't even changed the limit from 1MB to ?MB.  The smallest imaginable change.  This tiny technical change produced a three year fight with still no solution.  Technical advance cannot happen in the 'consensus' scheme.  For that reason, Ethereum has remarkable advance and Bitcoin is forever stuck precisely where it was 3 years ago.  

If you are not very good at thinking and you don't understand what I just wrote, then consider this: If you hodl your bitcoin, you will lose a shitload of value as ETH continues to rise like crazy for the next year or two.  Probably even longer.

then stop calling it a cryptocurrency and start calling it token.
also the whole topic becomes useless since you are comparing a token with no usage with a currency called bitcoin with lots of usages and merchants. and you think this token can replace bitcoin!!!
and lets not forget how expensive it is to make an ethereum transaction because how its fees have grown over the past 3 months!

in other words ICOs which out of 100, 99 are scam and 1 is poorly designed project.

in other words ethereum is centralized.

Since we are talking about market cap if it does happen I'll say it occurs within the next month or two or does not occur until the supply rate changes.
Ethereum is really the only one within shooting range of marketcap but I feel they are two different systems and in the future both will co-exist along with multiple others in the world of crypto-currency 8 years in there is a long way to go yet on this journey.

Same here, i dont care if ETH would surpass bitcoins marketcap since this isnt my indication on which way would i go on both coins. Theres no sense on predicting because all of us can anytime engage on both coins. Yes, Eth is really awesome when it comes to development but i cant see that it would surpass bitcoin in a matter short span of time. Comparing 8 years coin to a nearly 2 years as far as i remember.

Your blind love of 'decentralized' has led you down a bad path. 

Ethereum nodes are widely distributed and can be run by anyone.  It is decentralized.  But their team is organized.  Bitcoin has one big group of assholes who hate the other big group of assholes.  This makes for ZERO progress.  If you love decentralized zero progress, bet on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is your horse.  If you love high function, highly organized development team that is building a decentralized platform, then Ethereum is the one to bet on. 

Bitcoin has vigorously proved that 'consensus' just means a forever impasse.  Bitcoin is literally going nowhere.  It is stuck and it is 100% immovable. 

Well surely it wasn't easy to comprehend for me but what I understand is that you think Ethereum has much bigger potential than bitcoin, because BTC is only a currency and ETH is many things and only lastly a currency.

But why do you say that if I invest in bitcoin I "will lose a shitload of value as ETH continues to rise like crazy"? Maybe people who invest in ETH will earn more, that's possible, but I think bitcoiners will be in profit too.

Bitcoin has been cripple by lunatics who are trying to take over.  It will operate as a 'store of value' (just like gold) for some time.  But as more and more systems are deployed on the Ethereum platform, people will continue to abandon bitcoin - even for the only good function for Bitcoin - store of value. 

The funny thing is everyone keeps saying bitcoin is good because of good merchant adoption and use as currency.  Use as currency is near zero. >$5 in transaction fees means for purchases less than $100 it is horrible.  Even if the fees were 0, the manner of paying via QR has very low adoption.  Bitcoin is a horrible currency.  Currency is the very dumbest of all the applications that can be built onto a blockchain.  Currency can easily be built onto Ethereum too.  But nobody gives a shit about that, they are working on important stuff instead. 

There will never be a "flippening". Even if it will take place, it will not last for long. Just HODL your Bitcoins guys and you will be safe in the long run... do you really imagine a world where people use a coin named Ethereum? Let's be serious, if there is a name for it that's Bitcoin :)

It could bethat the market cap of ETH goes over the market cap of BTC.

BUT, just make this little experiment, walk down a street and ask 100 people if they know bitcoin and ether.

I bet you that 80 will say they know bitcoin (from the news, it is the internet currency), and maby 2 people who know ETH.

So, that tells us two things:

• bitcoin is very well known, eth is not
• the people which know eth, know about bitcoin and I think in most cases they use it.

the fact that you keep insisting about this topic on a bitcoin forum and on a bitcoin sub instead of posting it on the correct sub (being altcoin board) means you don't even believe this yourself and you are trying so hard to convince some uninformed people around here to possibly fall for it.

otherwise here is altcoin board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
and here is ethereum forum: https://forum.ethereum.org/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/

go there and enjoy your better crypto instead of wasting your time on a -quote- cripple bitcoin...-quote-

never.

To say that bitcoin hadn't any progress for 3 years is just a crap. I think everybody noticed how ETH grown already. And I used to buy couple of coins some month ago  :) So, I suppose there are no Bitcoin People and Etherum people, there are only crypto currency people who concentrated on all the market and do not give a priority just to one currency.

We all expecting this to happen within the next month or two and to have a shot at the prize i would say 29 th of JUNE 2017.

OP what prize are we likely to win cant find what it is we winning

But ETH have fake market cap. http://i.4cdn.org/biz/1497770724188.png

I also don't think market cap is such an important thing. The bitcoin is still the leader of all the cryptocurrency. Though ETH are getting more and more attention, most of them are from the ICO projects, I do not think it will be the leader. Any way, the date I guess is 15th July 9:00. ;D

That's not true. Right now you can pay 74,580 satoshis and have your transaction confirmed in 30 minutes. And 74,580 satoshis is less than $2 now. I agree that it is still a lot when you want to transfer less than $50.