Bitcoin Forum

This bubble of ETH based ICOs will most likely eat our asses pretty soon. What happened with decentralization?

a) We have a "Put_your_name_here" project with a minimum goal of (say) $5 Million + 30-50% premine - for "future development" and developers.
b) All of these projects (and I'm not saying this for the first time) have CEOs, CTOs etc., which has nothing to do with decentralization (as they should not be a company, nor they should have a huge premine).
c) Most of the people involved in these projects are with huge experience. Their combined experience is twelve billion years in the industry! They already launched five million projects with a combined turnover of USD $120 Billion/week. Yet they are asking for your money?

Should I mention the current issues of ETH?

And in five weeks/months/years, when the bad Americans (or Russians, just pick a nation) comes up with some law, you are all crying: "These bastards are f*cking with Bitcoin! :(", and believers: "Nothing can stop Bitcoin, even if they dump it down to $10!".

But please don't mind me. I'm just a guy who "missed the train".  

WTF is wrong with you people?!

Same thing happened in 2013/2014 with Bitfunder, BTCT, Havelock and there may be others I don't remember, people put a lot of money into a lot of projects listed there and they all failed or scam, now there's a lot of more money around and people 'invest' that money, it's just a matter of scale.

TheDAO should have been a warning to these new folks who did not yet lost money in the 'crowdfunding' scene.

It looks like an organized attack on common sense is going on from all the newborn eth accounts, buy buy, to the moon hype is at a huge level, now I know I am a new member here but it really looks ridiculous and so obvious scammy... All the ICO's, all the shitcoins launched everyday by "global cryptographers and engineers" makes me wanna puke, "1 billion times faster than bitcoin, no fees, quantum proof", I swear I just want them to stop already, 3 years already launching shitcoin after shitcoin, putting a billion (or more!) of coins into circulation and talking about market capitalization, Carl, market capitalization on some numbers on their code!

Only one thing gives me peace of mind - all the ignorant idiots who can't read and see the obvious signs of scam are gonna have a bad time and they are f*cking deserving it as they practically asked for it every god damn day since they got into the pump & dump, ponzi, schemes.

And no, I am not mad as some of you may wrongly think, in this way I added some emotions so maybe, this time, some idiot will wake up and see what a real coin is and what is a shitcoin.

We've been there already as I raised the red flag about a week before the attack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1504662.0

I did not researched the DAO, because I simply didn't care about what it is. But recent news surrounding its flaws made me look a bit deeper and even I who am not a developer saw the possible outcome. Now this pretty much is happening with ETH. It just can't sustain all of these "projects" and the balloon will burst, but this time the DAO will look like a joke.

And what bugs me the most... Let's talk about money. I made a decent amount of money during my years in crypto, but I'm not even close to a millionaire. And if I start calculating all of the coins I had in the past, then my net worth should be probably in the $5-10 Million range. But why it isn't? Because I'm not buying these crap... as simple as that. Did I missed 10s and 100s of trains? Yes. Do I care about it? No!

But one can say I am successful (I did not lose money, I bought some things from profits in the past) and if I was a hypocrite (which I'm not), then I will be able to fund such project by myself.

Why they need money if they were so successful? Just do some premine and run it for free. If your project is good enough it can again make you millions (because they're all after this - making money).

But this way they can fail and blame others. And more important: to bail out, as the DAO did.

I'm not mad too, but if some people decide to organize to give all these scammers a good ass whoop, I'll be in the front lines.

Thing is that BTC will crash too. Not to mention all these soft/hard fork camps, which are leading twitter, reddit and github wars, instead of reaching to some agreement, which could benefit us all.

You seem quite negative and upset.
You should just relax and play with money you can afford to lose.
"The stupidity of crowds" what does that have to do with anything? Yes, 90% of people are as dumb as a bag of hammers (probably me included, lol), so what? It is irrelevant.
Have you seen the S&P 500?
I've seen people fight it for the last 8 years using all kind of reasonable arguments.
We are at all time highs and we are going MUCH HIGHER.
Have you seen the price of real estate?
I've seen people fight it for the last 20 years using all kind of reasonable arguments.
Don't overthink it. Don't fight it.
Play with money you can afford to lose and enjoy the ride up with all this junk.
Good luck!

It looks like some of the things you said are outright true,but one thing when it comes to grabbing the opportunity to grab it without thinking too much,yes these ICO's coming on a daily basis is just atrocious but is it stopping people from investing in it,everyone is looking for the next big thing to increase their assets and just enjoy the ride now because it wont last forever. ;)

I think these people have developed a taste for their own asses--I was watching shit go down in 2014 and have to concur with OP.  There is a lot of greed and a lot of credulity in crypto, and that's not likely to change.   In fact it'll only get worse as the bull market sucks in more participants.

What makes you think the ico people still have their eth??

I get your point and I've seen enough in my life, but thing is that I'm not thinking about myself only. I will not lose any money (only a "potential profit"), but I do care about the whole ecosystem. We should defend digital currencies, not taking advantage of them.


Grab it? Do you realize that when you are buying/selling/trading a certain currency/token/whatever, which eventually turns into scam or just fails, because they promised more than they can deliver, makes you one of them? That's why I stopped trading for like an year and a half, but started again about a month ago. Decided to be a hypocrite for a while, but even now I do not buy anything I don't believe in.


What's your point? My point was that these ICOs are mostly scams or doomed to fail. Scams/failures have two excuses:

a) don't invest more than you can afford to lose
b) its a technology man, we did our best

Some of them may succeed and they can only say:

a) we told you so!

But do you know what do both (scams/failures and successes) have in common? They all raised millions of $. Its a win-win situation... simply BEAUTIFUL!

Everyone is just chasing the next big hit but I don't think decentralization vs centralization is the problem because most of the projects are meant to operate independently and decentralised after their development is complete.

I think the real problem is that even the worst of projects seem to get funded and people are very creative in listing their past accomplishments, its the equivalent of padding up a CV to extreme levels.

What I predict will happen is that the good projects will find some success while the shitty ones will eventually die out either during a crash or slowly over time.

I think you might be a little salty, at least subconsciously.

Most project are just some people trying to get a break. Some will invest in their project, because they believe in their project. Some are definitely just trying to run away with the money. Will soon find out I guess.

Soon could be years from now..

All trading indicators are based on differences and percentages.
Possible to overload indicators and shift price to higher level, then again manipulate.

So what? ???
Goverments does what is beneficial to it and the fans will always support what they like in spite of all dis in them. It ok, normal, let them argue

No matter how hard you try to preach that people should desist from projects, those who will put their money even after reading what you here will still do nothing can change their mind. Although some projects have come and go that have even lend credence to what you have there but at the same time others have stand the test of time which has equally made more positive impacts to the crypto world. I guess the bone of contention is that one should be careful in where you put your money.

I guess its common method used by the cryptocoin scammers to gather money from the big mass of hyped people stepping into the current crypto-industry.

Your last statement really hits the nail, most projects give timelines of over 2 years for their development so it takes a long time to really figure out if the project was just hot air or if they were really trying to develop something.

Isn't this the consequence of operating in a "free market?" Without regulation and proper vetting of companies by third party agencies, there should be no surprise that some projects are attempts to scam the masses. Why wouldn't they? It's the personal responsibility of the investor to quantify and justify the risk they take in participating in projects. Even legitimate projects could cease to exist with a change in regulation.

Don't you guys want to create some project and see its success? Or just "invest" in some that you really believe in and watch it growing over the months/years? This will be eventually taken away from you, because of people who are seeking for money to buy boats and b*tches (we even had such ICO... and it raised money).

But yeah, keep saying its crypto, it is how it is etc... 

90% of the "new" crypto crowd are, how can i get rich fast sir? kids

they dont care about crypto or gouvernance, technology or freedom?
they wanna make bucks over night

funniest thing is they FIGHT to get INTO an ico, and DUMP the minute its on an exchange (BAT)

maybe its all just  "i wanna be part of an ico huhu" movement?

nxc a project with a beautiful game that soon relases on STEAM gets left behind and dumped.. people buy whitepapers and future theoretical uses that may not even work, its crazy

both of people just wanna a lot of money but don't do anything for it.  i am agree with you in it

At least in theory, when development is complete, decentralisation should commence. However, especially since the technology is new (which is both true and used as an excuse), it will take a long time for development to "finish", and in fact, if the devs/community are in any way competent, development will never truly finish. If we simply assume that decentralisation is an inevitable result of development finishing, and patiently wait for it to land at out feet, we're in for a nasty surprise.

Most of them do conclude like you, a project that will be seen in the span of 1-2 years, but if they are really in doing a procurement, it seems that in the first month it will be seen the development of the project in peggang, actually for the The genius project holder, 2 years is too long

Just like in 2013.
You all know better and do it anyway.
Why fight it ?
Integrity ?
Ruining crypto ?
Financial Risk ?

You all out there pile in and add your support.
Just to get a slice of the large pie the dev & friends get.

You don't accept responsibility for your bad behavior.

What is wrong with trying to have integrity AND making money ?

This is not the best place to analyse the crowd dynamic.  There are way too many games being played and way too many people that have mutliple accounts that they use to those to make their posts appear supported.  A true crowd can only be judged if everyone in the crowd is a separate person.

Other than that, there is the inate back stabbing, the outright stealing and lying, the slef promotion and the active acquistition of wealth that is not evil, but has brought people to the point where they are paranoid and crazy.  This forum is not the place where people act the way they normally would, but perhaps it is a more in depth look into the way that people would be when they do not worry about people knowing who they are or any ramifications.

As you have rightly said that you only invest in project that you believe in, then you equally don't have to castigate others in others in the project that they also believe in just because they didn't see it the way you see it. For the mere fact that I am putting my money in a project even if its for one day accounts to the fa t that I believe in it.m because believe in itself is a subjective matter which is not universal to every one on the planet to follow through.

@BitcoinPC
Agreed.
I have been saying for ages the scene over all gets nasty because we all collectively do a little bad.
Which ultimately adds up to a Mount Everest of bad.
And i add it's each of us lowering our standards and doing things we shouldn't for MONEY behind closed doors because we can get away with it.

No one is going to post your trade history from exchanges here when you bad mouth a scam coin.

All i know is i am fed up with "some"
I just finished tearing a strip off a guy on a Metal Music blog about bands pan handling.
The band ripped everyone off.
And then we see the "Sometimes" crowd roll in making excuses.

I call bullshit on the begging.

But in crypto it's on a whole new level.
The likelihood of any ICO project becoming successful is 0.01% ..if that.
There has never been a "successful" ICO yet.

I keep saying it's like saying that *some* pyramid schemes are legit.
No.
Fuck no Investards.
It's how they work by design that is scammy ass stupid fucking bullshit.

If you surveyed the people "investing" if they thought it was going to be a success they would say no.
They know the ICO's are bullshit but they don't care.
Because they make BITCOIN / FIAT profits from them.

So what happens when crypto devolves in that direction ?
You're lookin' at it.
A mass of useless idiots flow in buying anything that is paying out.
Which means what ?
Well for starters the legit projects that might exist will go ignored.. because some other bullshit is paying out more profits.
So it robs support of any other legit "coin".

Stupid idiots here think ethereum is a "success"
It's the no.2 coin in crypto and a scammy load of rigged manipulated gimmicky ICO bullshit.
And that is the big yard stick all this is compared to.
Every little fucking prick here cites it as an example of a successful ICO.
Problem is.. It's not.

I ran a poll asking if the forum believed in it's premise.. 70% said no.
And even more are simply using it for profits (not as intended)
You will see lots of topics on it but any time anyone asks about how it works or what it's used for they are ignored.
How often do people talk about their favorite DAPPS / APPS ? (Smart contracts)
Never.
And it's funny because i have said that 1,0000000x
So if they wanted to make ETH look legit they could take my cue ;)
But they don't.. they rail on that the MANIPULATED price on a centralized govt controlled risky shitcoin exchange is proof it's a "big success"  ::)

Yup ETH the ICO is a winner.. because it's worth $300 each.
Seriously ?
Do you all realize how stupid that sounds ?

There HAS never been any successful ICO and the odds that one will exist are virtually 0.

Hey everyone i want to launch a new currency that replaces Bitcoin.
So you need to buy them with... Bitcoin  :D

The altcoin world is a scammy joke from end to end.
This shit is NOT legit.

Exchanges add scammy bullshit for profits as they make a billion dollars (see Coinbase)
All the idiotic ICO defense rabble here is preaching to the choir.
NO smart people out there are going to eat up the verbal diarrhea defending them from idiots here.
But.. many smart ones may join in.. fer teh ROI'z.
And join in PRETENDING this shit and the ICO's are legit.

The first cliche'd retort they will play is the *sometimes* card too.

We need to quit handing over control of the scene to the stupid & scammy.

After these round of ETH-based ICO's Ethereum bubble will pop. The money will flow into Bitcoin.

Its not going to flow into Bitcoin. People are going to just pull their money out completely for a while. Ethereum ICO bubble going to eventually pop.

I do not think an Ethereum Bubble is imminent. Other platforms where you can create coins on will start to rise. More and more ico's will start to emerge. Currently about 40 percent of the top 200 coins are interesting. The rest sucks. There is plenty more room to grow. There will be some corrections, sure but we are not even close to something like a dot-com bubble. Relax and enjoy the ride.

The subjective reasons one may have for believing in a project may be objectively shit.

You got this wrong. There is a "tiny" difference between "investing" in a project, which you believe it will "succeed" in 2 weeks or 2 years. Majority of the people are just buying and selling "the coin of the day", without bothering what may happen with it in future. And they move on. I do not care about these people as it is their right to do so, but that's not the main problem here. Back in the days we had a few obvious scams, which is pretty normal, but now we have people who are investing billions of $ in a broken technology. And main problem is that they know it, but they do not care as long as they are "sure" it will make them profit.

On the other hand we have hard working people, who "invested" not only their money, but their lives as well. And one day they'll all see their work valued at 0, because of a few million greedy f*ckers.

I'll be buying some beer and popcorn, because an EPIC dump is incoming and ETH shills will learn their lessons... in the hard way... Bad thing is that many alts will probably suffer, but it is what it is... 

It is true we await round based ETH ICO Ethereum bubbly will start to appear so many distracting to them because of the high price
 that many make many devotees

All indeed only a momentary embodiment such as eth and other altcoin,All keep on bitcoin.Bitcoin will not disappear even though eth and other coin is very fantastic price.For now maybe people are only fixated on eth, which obviously will eventually keep up with bitcoin.

You'd like someone to eat out your ass wouldn't you Spartak_nt. Why don't you ask your sockie bum chum Spoetniktard? He's got his hand up your ass half the time anyway.

Some history for our gentle readers. Don't believe a word of these well known ETH hating trolls. Their advices to date have cost other investors in ETH a minimum $100,000 and a mortgage free life. They are just trying to talk down the price so that they can buy in cheap. Don't let them.

Of course. Two people's opinions are controlling a market with over $1.25 Billion in daily trade volume. I once told you I think your IQ equals a room temperature, but now I'm starting to believe its even lower.

Unfortunately there's a lot of people in the Crypto space who don't even know what decentralization means, all they are here for is to make a quick buck. I cringed just the other day when I watched a video of one of the crypto youTube analysts praising the government. It looks like Satoshi's vision has been abandoned for Wall Street greed.

That about sums it up.
But the key difference that jumps out at me is..
Berni Madoff went to jail.
Martha Stewart did too for "Insider Trading"

In crypto Mark from GOX is posting pic's from the beach with a martini laughing on Twitter.

Paul from Cryptsy is now sitting on 30 million in BTC.. and hiding. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173703.new#new)

There is a net sweeping up a lot of the real stock market bullshit.
In crypto Alex Green and the Mintpal saga was forgotten fast.

I want to see a ton of the crypto-players behind bars.
I want to laugh at them and poke them with a stick.  :-*

And to the escorts guy earlier.. learn how to masturbate.  ::)

And Minecache ?
You were voted unanimously here by the forum as a FRAUD.

Look at your trust and warnings besides your name and remind us all who the real fraud is. Remember your sick trolling has cost genuine hard working posters here at least $100,000 and a mortgage free life. You Spoetniktard and your sick sockie sidekick Spartak_nt are the real frauds. 

Not trying to be an ETH hater but all this stuff is making sense. ETH is in a bubble, which is unfortunate, but it is.

This is worth a look (http://populicapital.com/website-launch-and-ethereum-correction/ (http://populicapital.com/website-launch-and-ethereum-correction/)). I layered a well known bubble chart from Hofstra University over ETH/USD and the signs are clear.

For those in it for the long term, you are safe. In 1-2 years time, ETH will be higher again and if it doesn't happen soon, it is going to pass out Bitcoin in market capitalisation!

But for now, a major correction is needed.

The price of Ethereum just dropped today drastically. Hope we are safe?

LMFAO, Mindlesscache is considering himself as a "hard working poster"! I'm no one "sockie", bitch! Trolling me will never prove your point and I will always happily bash you down to the ground.

I feel bad for the person who bought my ETH this morning.
I was looking at the buy orders and thought to myself, what are you doing?!
Lets see who will be right a month from now, lol. My sell your BTC call from last week was exactly wrong so who knows. But I bet I'm right about ETH going down. I used it, for a week, and am done with it as of today. It's not ready for prime time and I'm not letting ETH hold my money.
I still like my BTC  :-* :-* :-*.

They can do what they want and they can do it for whatever reason.
Who are you to tell them what the right reason is?
We don't have to conform to your frame of mind.
I don't care what Georgia Pacific's view of abortion is. I buy the lumber at home depot and hammer it together into a house, lol.

Ah crap gotta go bye!

https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/877440286384947200

Litecoin Creator.


So pretty much everybody who knows what they are talking about are all saying the exact same thing.

People feel safer when moving with the crowd, so if everyone is in a frenzy buying a particular coin then everyone follow it is really that simple.

@bohr
Safer ?

Uhh no nice try.  :D

It's a blatant feeding frenzy for ROI's.
Off of ?
Who gives shit ..JUST LIKE THE GUY SAID ON THIS TOPIC EARLIER. (Mr. Escorts)

I have said endlessly most of you are NOOBS here in crypto.
And young and often don't understand English.
You all simply pile in to teh exchanegr too buy the profits-coins fer teh ROI'z.

For a forum dedicated exclusively to cryptography, economics, computer programming etc
The IQ level over all with the crowd is shockingly LOW !
I feel like i am surround by mouthy little toddlers.

I mention that yet again because ?
You all don't know what a scam is.
You don't know what it means within the context of crypto or in the outside world through out history.

I do and have done my research.. and read testimonials by scam victims.
I have known victims trapped in the old water filter pyramid scheme scam for example.
You don't even see when you are talking like a pyramid scheme victim.
All you people do is try and lure in more victims so you can cash out on them.
Just like any pyramid scheme in human history.

You don't see you are playing this ancient game for profits via a corrupt system.
There is a reason why ponzi and pyramid schemes are considered bad.

And look around ?

That is all this stupid bullshit has amounted to.. from end to end.

You are all just participants in a new ages variant of the old pyramid scheme scam.

I can say that because i know what the word means.
And you all just say "Free Market" and "some" and "i need escorts"

When i go to other sites i am immediately reminded the that world isn't this dumb.
It's a breath of fresh air not seeing a fraud shill attacking someone over their haircut in defense of their ICO pyramid scheme scam.
I like going to other sites because they are not overloaded with brain dead greedy little corrupt Investards asking for "advices" for which profits coins on teh exchanger they should buy.. every five fucking minutes  ::)

The IQ level of the crowd here is dragging on the ground.. and they have way too much money to burn. (a perfect storm)
Which is why Ethereum frauds are pushing their ICO "App's" gimmick coin bullshit.

Who is the lamb and who is the wolf Investards ?
They don't care what the answer is..
All they care about is if they can make a few hundred bucks of the "project"
..even if the "dev" makes 2 billion via shady means.

News Flash NOOBS..
It wasn't like this here before.
YOU showed up and fucked this shit up bad.. this is all embarrassing crap !

I got involved in early 2011. This wave of ETH and ICOs I'm seeing is pure garbage. It will mount to nothing. It's all just a casino. If bitcoin fails, nothing will succeed. Adoption will just take time. That is all. Time.

The market saw a tremendous uptick, right along ETH. New blood thinks ETH is proven. It is not. Not even remotely. It fucked up, HARD FORK. It's EXTREMELY centralized. I'd love to see this coin wither away. It's the antithesis of crypto.

This is spot on! But to be fair, is it necessarily a bad thing? Yeah it causes volatility and can kill some coins, but the major challenge for most any coin and its tech is adoption. So if the crypto can gain more momentum and bring in more users because the mainstream media covers absurd increases in prices, isn't that somewhat of a good thing? Because in the long run, the coins with solid teams and offerings will thrive, and this exposure to the masses can be used to their advantage.