Bitcoin Forum

I am exploring blockhain technologies for about 3 months now. So there are a lot of things I don't understand very good yet. These are all my opinions and solutions for problems I present might have been found already.

As I have seen these past months blockhain technology shows huge potential but there are still a lot of improvements needed in this technology.

One of the problems is network fees. All or at least majority of videos/presentations of Bitcoin are offering us zero or very low fees. As the Bitcoins price and number of transactions raised significantly these fees became pretty high.1 They are not like impossible high so the Bitcoin isn't affected by this too much. And for big transactions these fees are still very small. Let's say there is 3$ fee worth of BTC, if you are sending 1 BTC the fee is still nothing -> less then 0,15% (BTC price = 2700$). As I have seen there are some ideas of solving these high fees 2 but these solutions doesn't seem to satisfy whole community so some problems with this may occur.

I see two major problems of ''high'' fees.
1. It is not good for advertisement of Bitcoin and what happens is a big doubt of new users and users which operate with low amounts of bitcoins.
2. Second problem is using bitcoins for everyday use. You just can't buy 2$ thing in shop and pay 5$ for it (2$+3$ fee).
Because these two reasons I think bitcoin is far from currency which we could use for everyday and would suit everyone, from poor regions to most developed countries.

So to get to the topic:
Physical bitcoin.
Physical bitcoin would completely solve this fee problem, as you don't transfer bitcoins/satoshis from one address to another, but instead you transfer the ownership of this address from one person to another. This would increase bitcoins usage a lot, at least I think so.
Physical bitcoin should contain public key and private key. Public key must be there so you can verify balance on this coin. Private key must be hidden and you could only see public key once - and with you seeing private key, coin would become worthless. So when someone ''opens'' (check private key) coin you should clearly see it is worthless, it must be like broken or something. 3
If we get safe and practical physical bitcoins this solves few problems. I will present some advantages and disadvantages of using physical bitcoin.

Disadvantages:
1. Safety - I have come across some ''stickers'' which are considered safe. It is possible to check if someone tried to use private key 4. It bothers me what happens if someone peel of the sticker and save private key, then he apply new sticker which looks exactly the same on the outside. So the coin have completely same look on the outside. He can sell/ pass it over and he has private key. I haven't researched a lot about this, so please tell me more about this if you know
2. Centralisation - there must be complete trust to manufacturer of the physical bitcoins. He can save private keys, make ''empty'' coins and probably other things he could do to scam you.
3. Bitcoin price - You have let's say physical bitcoin worth 0,01BTC. In the moment you spend it you must check it's price, this means there must be internet connection at the spot you are spending this bitcoin. This is not really big problem nowadays in my opinion, but it is a problem. Actually only the person who is accepting this coin must know the price of bitcoin.
4. Return of change - You buy stuff worth 15$ and your physical bitcoin is worth 23,52$, so how can we make this work? Today there is still big dominance by FIAT currencies. So they can't just be canceled today. And I think we could use them very good in solving problem of returning the change. You would just simply return him FIAT currency. It would be also possible to return physical bitcoin + FIAT money. You buy thing for 15$, pay it with 23,52$ worth of BTC they can return you 8,52$ or you get back 6,52 worth of BTC and 2$.
5. Legal problems - If people would start using bitcoins a lot more, governments/banks would definitely interfere in it with some regulations, prohibitions etc. I think good concept of physical bitcoin would raise it's use a lot. So we can only imagine what would/will happen.
6. Hand to hand - You can't send physical bitcoin over the internet. The people involved in transaction must be at the same place. Of course this is not really a problem, as you can just get private key and send BTC to your digital wallet.

Advantages:
1. No fees - Only fee it would be paid would be in the process of making physical bitcoin and when you would send BTC from the physical bitcoin. And both of these fees can be at minimum, because there is no need to hurry. When you are spending physical bitcoin there is no fee required. The only fee could be from the person who receive bitcoins as payments. 5
2. Simplicity - It would finally become simple for old grandpa or grandma to use Bitcoin. No wallet, no computer, no explaining, no electricity...
3. No need to understand everything - We don't understand all the things we use everyday (how computers work, how internet works, how cars work...) but we still use them with no concerns. So it should become same with Bitcoin, we just need to make thing so simple that anyone can use without understanding it. And physical bitcoin is a big step towards this goal.
4. Good advertisement - If anyone can use BTC as payment method with ease it is very good for Bitcoin.
5. Interest - You can start to explain about Bitcoin, blockchain with something to show. Now only people who can use computer are able to operate with bitcoins. If you have something to hold anyone can start from there. This would in my opinion raise interest in blockchain technology a lot.
6. Secure - If coins would be safe (disadvantage n.1) this would be really safe currency to use. It would actually be backed with blockchain technology which we know is impossible to break, for now.

So what are your thought about physical bitcoin? Is this the future of Bitcoin?

1 Can someone post link where you could see average fees in BTC per byte over the time.
2 I don't understand technology behind this solutions yet, so I can't comment on that and predict it's effectiveness.
3 This is the idea I have about physical bitcoins, please correct me if I am wrong.
4 Is this information correct?
5 The person receiving coins can set fee. Example: Paying with bitcoins increase price for 3%. This fees are mostly set because of volatility of bitcoin, which should decrease over time so these fees will get smaller and smaller, until 0.

Please correct me, add disadvantages/advantages, answer, explain...

P.S. I don't want worthless spam in this topic. So I will delete posts which won't be constructive and make topic hard to read. This first post will probably get edited!

If in the future Bitcoin will become a widespread currency, someone will notice that being digital can be a downside, because it makes Bitcoin 100% tied to the Internet, electricity and electronic devices, unlike fiat money that can exist in many forms. Physical Bitcoin already exists, but mostly for collectible purposes. If someone will decide a physical Bitcoin for payments, they will probably get a lot of Bitcoins (lets's say 10 000), lock them in and release paper currency that will be backed by those Bitcoins. It will work just like current cash, but backed by Bitcoin instead of gold, and it won't have any problems with private key ownership that you have described in your post.

I agree with you, digital currency has its downsides especially until not every human on earth is connected to internet and has computer.
This idea with paper currency backed by Bitcoin is probably best solution. It would overcome many problems and people would probably get used to it pretty fast. But are there any new problems that would appear with this solution?

Well yeah.  Private issuance means there is no verifiability.  We all know how this works.  The issuer of the paper notes issues far more notes than there are bitcoins to back them up.  Their ability to issue new notes amounts to an ability to steal from everybody else ad libitum.   

A better way to transact offline is to use a bitcoin check  (private key on a piece of paper with some information).  This requires you have some trust or KYC but that's really not such an uncommon thing in most of our transactions.  Each transaction in this case winds up being put on the chain eventually, when the payee is finally able to get online...  and if they never do (or not within an agreed upon time), the payer keeps a copy and can claw back the funds. 

 

Is this really a thing, Making bitcoin physical?

For me it is like making a tangible bitcoin to be one of a fiat currency. Then you will be relying again to the centralize banks.

And if you really worry about the fees, did you already try to send a remmitances from your country to the other side of the world using your fiat currency?

Sorry for this will not happen if you think it will, it is like saying go walk to your work from your house to avoid gas fees with your car plus it is more safer because you may get a car accident in the way. Noting also that not all of the people on earth has a car to access the road but there is a public transportation right? So the fact that not all people can access the internet is so lame for me.

We must keep moving forward people, embrace the changes and don't be a hindrance or unless you will be left behind. Peace out, its only my opinion.

Yea this is a problem, could there be possible that you would actually connect paper note to public key. So you could check it anytime, and see that there is really BTC backing it up. But access to private key would only be possible if you would go to some central institution and swap your paper note for BTC.
I think this bitcoin check is far to fragile and exploitable. I doubt it would work on a large scale. You actually give him private key which is not very secure for me.


There must be a system which would provide us physical Bitcoin or some kind of paper notes in which you are not relying on centralize institution.

LOL, about the fees, did you even read what i wrote? I know fees are far from really high. But would you buy 0,2$ chewing gum with BTC? You would pay 2-3$ more. You pay same if you are sending BTC across the whole globe or if you go to shop across the road. This is problem which is making BTC impractical for everyday use. And imagine if everyone would use Bitcoin and every transaction would be on blockchain, it would make fees even bigger.

OK, so you went hiking to a remote place where there is no internet connection, no signal on phone... You only have BTC- in an online wallet. You come to shop where you want to buy water but you can't because there is no internet connection. So bitcoin is useless in this case no matter how stupid it sound that not everyone has internet connection. You can't buy water/food/snack... I would say to myself this bitcoin is shit, I can have 1 mil worth of BTC but i can't buy anything with it unless there is internet.
I am talking about global usage of Bitcoin, it just can't be used by anyone if we don't have some kind of physical bitcoin.

I think this is moving forward for Bitcoin, if there would be good/trusted offline way of exchanging BTC it would be more suitable to become number 1 currency in the world.

Ok I read through what you have said. (There is alot) I sort of see what you saying but dude. It's nulified by the fact that it is pychical. The whole point if Bitcoin is so that it's not physical. What you telling about is like going backwards. Why ? Physical bitcoins is a novelty. It is for long term storage and it just cool and a nice thing to own. It's not practical at all. That's why I say sorry dude this isn't going to work. But nice idea.

A lot of people don't trust bitcoin because I can't touch his hands. In most people, there is now a Bank card, but this does not negate the use of Fiat. It seems to me that if there was a gold bitcoin it would be the most reliable and popular currency in the world.

I believe a centralized business could use a feature like this, but with physical coins of different values, like local currencies. They could work as an exchange house, where you give them your BTCs and they give you some coins pricing the same amount you paid to them.

To make this work, several shops should be in cooperation with this exchange house, dealing with the physical coins they supply.

It's dangerous, because many Bitcoins would be on the exchange's hands and at some point they could run away with the BTCs and make all the physical coins system stop working. What do you think?

It's stupid that people do not trust bitcoin. It's a false thought, we can not affirm the value of a coin even though we can not touch it. Unlike cash, bitcoin and other altcoins are digital products, which only exist on the internet data base. Its power is being expressed by its value. Do not doubt about it.

Having one is not actually a problem but it seems to be worthless as the bitcoin is known for its anonymity, transferring using internet, and investment purposes in other words making a physical bitcoin is like having another coin that is not a cryptocurrency so it would be a big problem for adopting it and accepting it in a wider community. I still don't understand the logic of this, I am not against it but why bother making so many work for such a small thing that will change. Bitcoin will improve but I still don't see any reason for having a physical one.

If Bitcoin reaches its physical state, then it will lose all its advantages. The reality for today the society is not ready to accept Bitcoin as it is, And for this they use Fiat very well. But at the same time for more popularity Bitcoin, you need time and go to the physical form at all.

Physical Bitcoin is not required. Because the virtual presence is more than enough and just because of that it has gathered such a big popularity and growth. Physical bitcoin is now too available, as the cold storage wallet serve to be an physical bitcoin.

What's the point of having a physical bitcoin? Then just use fiat if that is the case. Bitcoins are made for online transactions and if it is done through normal means like how we do it with fiat, you actually destroy the purpose of bitcoins and thus making it just like any other fiat currency.

Besides, there are a lot of issues regarding private keys being handled by third parties which is not a good thing.

You're about 6 years too late with your idea. Physical Bitcoins have existed since 2011.

See the Collectibles (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=217.0) section.

I know what you're thinking. Something along the lines of the tokens in John Wick? First, who would mint these coins? The sticker thing is kinda off, people can just peel it and replace it with something new if they like. Also, it defeats the purpose of anonymity since person-to-person transaction is needed to seal the deal. Finally, how would you connect every possible trade of the physical bitcoin in the blcokchain without having the fees paid? So does that mean these people should always bring their smartphone to scan qr codes on the coin? It is a hard to do and implement.

Casascius coins are also widely available too, just a heads up.

This is certainly the case with fiat money

But there are at least two major points why things may be different with Bitcoin. First of all, unlike fiat with which you have to pay taxes and banks which you have to use if you want to transfer money, no one is forcing you either to use paper bitcoins or transact with them. Further, it is not possible to check how much paper money has been printed but it is certainly possible with paper bitcoins, i.e. it is feasible to introduce a (decentralized) system which would allow you to check whether this paper bitcoin is actually backed up the "real" bitcoin. Given the first and the second, those who would want to start up such a system would have to provide a means to verify that there are no more paper bitcoins in circulation than real ones in reserves. Otherwise no one will be using these bitnotes in the first place

True, and I don't think it will ever exist again. I think digital currencies should stay digital and there is no need for them to exist in physical form, paper or some else. We are about to become completely digital society so why to complicate more. I don't need paper Bitcoins, what would be the sense?

Nobody said Bitcoin was made so that people can buy a box of matches or condoms. What if it evolves into a cheap overseas money transfer system and a way to safely pay for a new car or a house with minimum fee?
Also, 3$ fee? I've always used half of that price with no problems.

You mentioned the stickers on physical Bitcoins. They can be counterfeited because nobody has thought of making them really secure, like fiat money. When first coins were made the price of Bitcoin was probably less than $100. I think if we're to use them in future they will have to be upgraded, so that it's much harder to steal the coins.
Nowadays checking the address won't help you, because the thief could have the private key on his phone, give you the coin, receive the payment and then quickly empty the address minutes after shaking hands with you.

Bitcoin is essentially a digital asset. It is not that easy to convert in to the physical form. Even if you have physical Bitcoins with you, how can you confirm that the Bitcoins haven't moved else where? You need internet to confirm that the Bitcoins are still present in these physical coins. 

diamond is more precious than gold but still people are welling to have, because they do no have the opportunities to use it for trading and making money. but in fact people like and welling to have bitcoin, because they have the facilities to use bitcoin for trading and making money. they can use bitcoin for  a lot of purposes, they can use it for trading for transaction purposes, for gambling and for using as cash in online shops and in some places can use in fiat shops for shopping.

So in short you are saying to have Bitcoin (a digital good) to be converted into a physical good & then exchange.

Sorry, it will fail big time.

Isn't this already present ? (Hint: Real cash & the money in your bank).

i think for physical bitcoin is a good idea but this is just like a fiat which have physical form. if its like this, bitcoin is the same as fiat and fiat will not be used again in future. because in the future, i am sure that every country, every places will have internet connection which help us to use bitcoin so people will not difficulties to connect with internet. i think people don't have to know details about bitcoin, they only need to use bitcoin as the payment.

First of all, let me explain why I am so enthusiastic about physical form. If tomorrow FIAT bubble would burst people wouldn't swap to crypto currencies. WHY? Because you are paying fees which are too high and you can't buy bread with this everyday, because everything is digital (elderly people just can't use this, people with no computer, phone can't use it....). So If we want to make Bitcoin useful for everyday life we need to make things much better and practical. So don't get me wrong I think that whole Bitcoin/blockchain technology is amazing.

I know physical coins are already existing! But they are far from what I had in mind. Some of them are just to expensive for manufacturing. And no one hasn't explain how their security system is working (I will research when i'll have time).

And I'm not saying we should only switch to physical form, we have digital and paper money in FIAT too. But we would take reverse path going from digital to paper form. Paper money is actually very useful, easy to handle, doesn't need internet, doesn't need electricity, works every time. And again comparing it to bitcoin there are no fees for transaction whatsoever and you don't wait even a second to get transaction confirmed. (yes, BTC will get better with this, yes there are other cryptos i know this)

As I have seen till now most of BTC community is totally against physical form of BTC and immediately comparing it to FIAT system.
First of all paper money is not the same as FIAT. Banks/government can make money out of thin air either it is in paper form or digital form. No one can make bitcoins! So there is a big difference and learn it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Till now i have came up with two different forms:
1. Physical coins as we know it today you get public and private key on same coin. The problem with this is security: How can we know that previous user didn't scam us or any user before him? This kind of money would be possible if we would came up with genius idea how to make really secure coin. (As described in first post)

2. Representative money. ''Representative money is any medium of exchange that represents something of value, but has little or no value of its own. Unlike fiat money (which may or may not have anything of value backing it), to be a genuine representative money, there must always be something valuable supporting the face value represented.'' source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_money.

So we make similar money as today FIAT (few security systems which prevent counterfeiting), it would have it's serial number so the institution making this money can track the paper notes and verify their credibility. What would be different is that you would actually have public key of Bitcoin address on it. On this Bitcoin address there would be exact amount of BTC as paper note is representing. Anyone could check this if he has electricity and internet. So actually every time you would buy something with that paper note shop/seller could verify that there is really BTC backing it up.
So here comes the problem! Centralization! Private key would be held by institution issuing this paper notes. So you actually don't own BTC as much as you can. This would be a big downside, but I don't see it as such a big problem. One big advantage is that you only need to trust issuer of the money, not everyone who were using it before you (as in case of physical bitcoin with private key included). Another advantage could be recovering of lost money so in case you would lost paper note you could get BTC back. But I don't know the solution how this would work, because anyone could just come to issuer and say he lost money... Please give some ideas. (maybe another blockchain?)
There can be many issuer of this paper notes and if someone scam you can get another one who doesn't. This would be sorted naturally.

Anytime you would want to convert your paper notes into digital form, you can sell that paper back to issuer and he can send you same amount on your wallet address. Or you could just sell it to anyone willing to buy.

Issuer would make money with selling BTC for a bit higher price then it is at the moment of buying paper notes. He could use minimal or even zero fees (no need to hurry) to make deposit on that address which would then be represented by paper note.

So from now on please don't just tell this is stupid idea in general, give some solid explanation why it is so bad or try to be positive and find solutions for problems which occurs.

On chain transactions make bitcoin worthwhile, it is not the other way. Trading private keys from hand to hand is the same thing as trading gold coins. The thing is gold has value because of its historic preciousness.

Bitcoin is no gold. If we won't be able to send bitcoins on-chain, it will only serve as Tulips. Tulips which has no real use, no value, nothing but only speculation.

If the problems about the high fees don't get solved, this is what we are going to have, another "tulipmania".

Transations would be on blockchain too, majority of them. What you are saying is like hardwallet with 100 Bitcoins is worth nothing. If I buy that exact hardwallet.
You don't think this could work in any case?

As to me, that's outright bullshit

Transacting bitcoins via blockchain neither gives nor takes anything from it being a tuliplike asset (or not being it). In fact, I'm curious what you can base your claims on. You can just exchange physical bitcoins for goods and services and that would be real usage (i.e. Bitcoin as a currency), while you can endlessly send bitcoins over the network and that would mean nothing (apart from spamming the network). As an aside, gold is not tulips (even metaphorically), when you use gold as money it has value as money not as gold as such. But money is not required to have any intrinsic value (apart from transactional utility which makes a money token into money)

Fees are only current problem. And that is the only problem this solves. But it brings many other problems or way worse solutions as BTC already have. Actually it solve another problem, that many people are practically illiterate.  Just today i read in newspaper that 30% of people from 18-65 years cant use ATMs for credit cards. They easily pay in a store with credit card since there is a cashier that helps them but they cant do it on their own on ATM.

So solve 2 problems but brings many new.
This BTC would be centrally stored and people that would owned this "bitcoins" (paper wallets) would not be able to empty wallet and thy should trust issuer off this bitcoins.
This BTC could not be divided. You would have let say 0.01 BTCs. Or maybe you could have all range of this wallets to have change back. ( so this would be doable, but would take huge amount of BTC to provide liquidity).



Why dont you try it?  Just get some BTC put them on different  paper wallet. In different amounts. 1BTC, 0.5BTC, 0.2BTC, 0.1BTC, 0.05BTC, 0.02BTC, 0.01BTC, 0.002BTC, 0.005BTC, 0.001BTC, 0.0005BTC, 0.0002BTC, 0.0001BTC. Somehow secure you dotn get hacked and someone steals all your BTC from all your paper wallets. That would be your biggest fear. Or fear of those that will hold your "bitcoins" ( paper wallets)

If start using physical bitcoin then I think what will be the difference between traditional currency and bitcoin. The beauty of the bitcoin is digital figure and its use through online purchasing and payments against services etc. So, I think we should have to provide internet for to make it common and I think there may not be a single country who do not have the facilities of using internet, even internet is almost present everywhere.

It would be absurd really. Satoshi Nakamoto didn't create bitcoin just to be made exactly like fiat money in the days to come. That would betray the real essence of a digital currency.

And then there was an attempt that foiled. That didn't click well. Bitcoin, as it is, has been praised and appreciated by many for what it is. Why change it, then?

Things will really go complicated if we turn bitcoin into a physical currency. The intensity might cause the entire bitcoin market to crash.

No, The future isn't with physical coins IMO but with hardware wallets, which you can use in a better way than even credit cards.
Physical bitcoins are just a novelty, since you don't need a physical coins if you are using bitcoin and it would be a big step back if you consider it better than creditcards and other methods using a physical item but reusable unlike paper money (and physical bitcoins).

Maybe a fiat equivalent? Because what's the use of digital currency if there is any in the physical world. It is good that it can be converted but i think its weird if it will be brought up live. For it is better to mine in the web than in the physical. Sure it would cost electricity but many alternate electricity can be made to further compliment mining. The future is the internet so it is but right to have some currency designed for the web.

No I don't think so it shall happen, look at your disadvantages points, CENTRALIZED, if we all wanted it why would we use Bitcoins at all. You really haven't understood Bitcoins at all. Yes the fees are a pain no doubt about that, but that doesn't mean we shall opt to make it centralized, that would be suicidal, so for that very reason I have voted no, as I don't like the idea of this whole concept and it's very long post that you have written but there seems no real merit to support your idea, maybe others shall find different views

No, this is the past and even funny to consider using physical coins with gold covering to pay for something that can be done digitally, if you ever used a new trezor you will see how easy it is to conduct a transaction with it (just scanning a QR), Paying with a physical "coin" is repetition of history, rather than the future.

I definitely do not think that physical Bitcoin is the future. First of all, Bitcoin was made to be a pseudo-anonymous currency, if we use physical Bitcoin, then we completely ruin this. Also, real life transactions bring up the risk of theft. To add onto that, it is a lot harder to store your Bitcoin if it is something that is physical. It is the same as cash, you would need something like a bank and once again, that would ruin the point of Bitcoin which is that you can be your own bank. Another problem would be that it would be really hard to use and store small amounts of Bitcoin. I just really don't see physical Bitcoin ever taking off and it is definitely more of a collectible item.

OP, nice points.

The thing is, how are you going to trustlessly exchange private keys with physical bitcoins? Sure, there might be manufacture's stickers on a physical coin. Sure, the manufacturer is well known and the risk of getting a "dud" is almost astronomical, but the whole point of using bitcoin is eliminating these sort of things from happening. When you're receiving physical bitcoins from someone, you are not receiving something fungible. Just like paypal funds, the actual value of these funds depend on the user's trustworthiness, its origin and so on.

Unless a way is found to address this trustless issue, it's not going to become a mainstream type of bitcoin transacting method. You could think of high transaction fees as compensation for miners to provide this trustless service, in a sense.

My answer:
I think it is better for other things too. Future: You are going home from work, you see you need to refill your gas. Your phone runs out of battery and you are broke in that moment. What would you do?
I will probably try it, but with fever BTC.
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My answer:
I don't think it would betray the real essence of digital coin.
Yes I know it would be complicated, but should we avoid complicated things, can't it become something good although it is complicated?
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My answer:
Yes, hardware wallets can be really useful. But first Bitcoin need to change/improve some things.
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My answer:
As I mention it few times, yes I know it is centralized. But imagine if country would be doing this would they get any benefit from it? If they would make paper money which would be backed up by Bitcoin? For every 1000 Satoshis there would be private key directly linked with that papper and it would have 1000 Satoshis on it.
+ For everyone, you still know how many centralized system we got? And you trust them without even noticing anything? All products today all more or less centralized, you have to trust the one who is making that product: food, money, water, soap, computers... Now after bitcoin you would trust even 1 institution on whole world?
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My answer:
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My answer:
If you would prefer you could only use digital form of BTC. You could store big amounts in digital form and use physical form of them only for small purchase.
Storing small amounts? You could get paper note with 10 Satioshis on it.
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My answer:
As I explained in one of my posts before, I think this is really big security problem (having private key on physical form). So It doesn't have to be a big part of whole bitcoin system only 1% could be in physical form. And this paper notes (representative money) could be product locally.

It seems your idea was just stolen: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-smart-banknotes/

Maybe you should ask them for some notes.

I agree with you, bitcoin has its own disadvantages and disadvantages

No not at all, I think no one has never think that future of the bitcoin. This is one of the great advantage of bitcoin that it is very very difficult to steal because it does not have my physical form and can only stored in accounts, you can only feel it, see it in your account but cannot touch it and moreover every one is talking that in future it will replace all Fiat currency and if bitcoin itself will become the paper currency then the supporters who are now in favour of bitcoin will also comes in against of it.

precisely because of technological advancement then in the coming year around the world will be connected to the internet. now many people who have not connected to the internet.

the world is growing complex and increasingly populous, then automatically the country that does not have the internet must have internet, And that's where Bitcoin continues down the space into various countries.

There have been more chances for physical bitcoin, but this won't be possible same as that we use the traditional fiat. Even if it gets some physical form, it gets functional online with the interlinked connectivity. Already there have been several gift presentations of bitcoin with different physical forms with the qr code of the wallet being depicted on the object.

Bitcoin is a digital currency and peoples are accessing via internet connectivity but in future if bitcoin in physical currency like fiat then it can be good but they need to protect with digitally like chip system and peoples can access via private keys this will be good option so no one access without anyone permission now bitcoin physical currency is available but only for collectible purpose.

Technically this is already possible using the Paper Bitcoin Wallet storage method, or for any other coins that support this wallet type.

Additionally, you could engrave the wallet key (or QR code) onto a commemorative coin or other similar physical medallion. It would be easy enough to limit the amount on the coin to, say, exactly 1 BTC, and give it as a gift, sell it, or keep it in a safe.

For other unique physical goods represented in digital form via blockchain, non-fungible digital assets using the ERC721 token type would likely be the standard.

In my opinion it is not a proper way to manage it because bitcoin having a 21 decimal, do you at least imagine how many coins or bills we need to issue in order to cover all those?

I think there are more disadvantages in physical Bitcoin and the problem with fees should be solved in other way.

It wont be , the main idea of bitcoin is a digital currency . And if were talking about physical bitcoin as the future ? Man , the main purpose of bitcoin is totally wasted . Its not bitcoin anymore . Besides , bitcoin in a physical form is more hassle and people would choose fiat money over that physical bitcoin . And as you mention , there are lot of risk that come with it . So no , It's not and will never be the future/

My opinion is that Bitcoin has not future as physical bitcoin because this is electronic blockchain technology.
But Bitcoin have very sweet future soon.

The present and future coin is no other than bitcoin. Because of bitcoin they are so many coins exist. The foundation of all coins is bitcoin, no wonder why bitcoin becomes the king of all coins.

Bitcoin cannot change to physical, because if it is changed to physical, Bitcoin has experienced a decline in time.

Bitcoin in physical form cannot be detected from Explorer and it is most likely to be fake. LOL

it means Bitcoin to go Centralized, some authority to print those Paper Bitcoins and the total concept of Decentralization is gone.

It is very impossible to have a physical bitcoin because it is not different from a real money and the authority will prohibit to use another currency aside from government currency. Assuming we have physical bitcoin currency, okay but what country it will represent how much will be its value because this not backed up by the government, an institution not even gold unless it is made of gold. so what do think can physical bitcoin will become the future?

if the bitcoin will be the basis of another coin in the field of crypto in the future, I'm not worried about it because if you can see and study the roadmap of the coins it will tell you how it works well.

I don't think that's a good idea? I think physical money is a traditional payment method and I don't think we want bitcoin to go backwards right? people prefer to use bitcoin digitally, transactions using online wallets, or payments with QR, and so on

physical bitcoin will make Bitcoin centralized, in my opinion and i do not think that was the goal of satoshi nakamoto.

Physical Bitcoin is new. This is for long-term storage and only cool and fun things to have. It's not practical at all. It is clear I say sorry this will not work. But a good idea.

Making Bitcoin a physical currency will go against its main idea and I think it will be traceable by governments and other organization if the community starts to use that in physical form and we will loose many benefits too in the process so it is always better that Bitcoin stay in the current form 

then what's the use of the blockchain system, which makes bitcoin work decentralized and not centralized.
bitcoin will be the same as fiat currency. LOL

I heard some theories about that but for me it is quite strange that people are willing to have a physical or representative of Bitcoin while it is in its core. a digital currency that needs to be decentralized.

Sure Bitcoin in tangible form can make it more usable in the real world and it gives Bitcoin more purpose than in current intangible way but this is something that will never happen in the future because no one to take the lead to do that   

Already there are debit cards planned that will use bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to make transactions. I am not sure bitcoin can get more physical than that, as it's essentially comprised of software code. These debit cards will become a hit once the bitcoin price stabilizes or the bull market resumes.

I don't think it is right and if the news is true then also i must say there is no need of that because digital means virtual if it become physical then the name digital become meaning less.

I still don't understand this logic, I'm not opposed to it but why bother making so much work for that small thing that will change. Bitcoin will increase but I still don't see any reason to have physicality.

Hello

I do not think that this will affect the quality of bitcoin.

Read OP I think advantages are explained pretty well.

Advantages:
1. No fees - Only fee it would be paid would be in the process of making physical bitcoin and when you would send BTC from the physical bitcoin. And both of these fees can be at minimum, because there is no need to hurry. When you are spending physical bitcoin there is no fee required. The only fee could be from the person who receive bitcoins as payments.
2. Simplicity - It would finally become simple for old grandpa or grandma to use Bitcoin. No wallet, no computer, no explaining, no electricity...
3. No need to understand everything - We don't understand all the things we use everyday (how computers work, how internet works, how cars work...) but we still use them with no concerns. So it should become same with Bitcoin, we just need to make thing so simple that anyone can use without understanding it. And physical bitcoin is a big step towards this goal.
4. Good advertisement - If anyone can use BTC as payment method with ease it is very good for Bitcoin.
5. Interest - You can start to explain about Bitcoin, blockchain with something to show. Now only people who can use computer are able to operate with bitcoins. If you have something to hold anyone can start from there. This would in my opinion raise interest in blockchain technology a lot.
6. Secure - If coins would be safe (disadvantage n.1) this would be really safe currency to use. It would actually be backed with blockchain technology which we know is impossible to break, for now.

If our atm card is lost, maybe we can still take care of it and our balance will be safe. But if I imagine our bitcoin is gone, where should we take care of it? Is there still hope of being able to return it? Or at least can we use insurance services on bitcoin?

Hm, did you post this in the right thread?
In general you always have private key or mnemoric seed for certain bitcoin wallet. So it is your responsibility to take care of security (make copies of them and store them in a safe place). There is no insurance though.
But in case of physical bitcoin this wouldn't be possible since you shouldn't get copy of private key until you "destroy" that coin/bill. It would become worthless after you "open" it.

If someone will decide a physical Bitcoin for payments, they will probably get a lot of Bitcoins, lock them in and release paper currency that will be backed by those Bitcoins. It will work just like current cash.

Yes, this is one option. It would actually makes sense if you would put address on these notes. So people could always check that there really is a bitcoin on that address. Of course this means centralization.
I wouldn't say this is like current cash (FIAT) because it isn't backed up by anything. It was true until gold standard still applied.

Bitcoin using blockchain technology because its transparant technology and easily to track transaction. Its hard to make fake bitcoin if bitcoin on digital form and if bitcoin is physical form, its much chance for people making fake one

Bitcoin it's sacred on the internet, is it the future of Bitcoin physics or is it still a long chain after, the physical bitcoin is the future? Man, the main purpose of bitcoin is completely wasted. It's not bitcoin anymore. Besides, bitcoin in a physical form is more trouble and people will choose fiat money on that physical bitcoin.

For as long as the thing is not in our hands or we do not touch it, it is normal for most of us that we can be doubtful about it. Am I so secure with my wealth? That is the question we keep asking ourselves.

Bitcoin in physical form is useful but in physical will be really dangerous to use because imagine keeping over 6000 dollars worth of note inside your pocket during the day can you actually live without fear and continue to world that someone will take from you or will lost notes  so it would be really difficult thing to do           

 Yes Bitcoin do exist in physical form. You may don’t know that IN US 500+ ATMs were installed for BTC - Bitcoin and in Israel capital there are 2 ATMS in which it is reported that 1 is working while other is malfunctioned so it undergoing some correction.
 So, if you’re thinking that BTC-Bitcoin is just a virtual currency then update yourself. Keep in mind that yet no country has given Bitcoin a legal tender (Currency) status.

I don't see a point in having physical bitcoins (or any other cryptocurrencies) as then we would lose some of the key features that cryptocurrencies are bringing into the game. I think debit cards are as far as we will get to physical form.

I'm sure that the physical Bitcoin will kill many of Bitcoin's virtues, and he will lose by comparison with cash in the currency, in the sphere of security from the state.

I really don't think that it is possible because all the physical money is replaced with bitcoin and they're not having a need to print all those 21 or something decimals for bitcoin cash, it is insane in the useless.

Bitcoin is a decentralized virtual currency and thats it.
Its uniqueness is tied to that feature
,
It can never become a paper money.

I don't think physical Bitcoin can be considered as the future of Bitcoin it is like a step back from the future because Bitcoin was introduce to eliminate the physical use of currencies for many reasons such as security, convenience and many other and if we again turn Bitcoin into physical form what is the different the crypto world has made to the world and will there be a difference between Bitcoin and United states dollar   

Good idea. I think similar stuff already exists: www.ccn.com/physical-bitcoin-banknotes-launched-in-singapore-to-drive-adoption-2/
 I don't know how far they have gone with it though.
 Physical Bitcoin is better stored long-term to gain from increase in value. For example you could print out Bitcoin on some fancy cards  lock it up (with its inbuilt Timelock) for 5 years and hand it over to your kids to spend when they become adults.


 Your idea would work well if Bitcoin was stable.  Bitcoin isn't meant to be stable fortunately.
A stable & decentralized version of Bitcoin (like Ethereum DAI) could be developed to serve this purpose. I think such stable Bitcoin could also greatly contribute to Bitcoin economic in form of fees

well still i do think the idea of cashless society that trusted and transparancy is not really good to have and seems unnecessary to have a physical form. I dont think bitcoin will be better with it and also what we need is how to make it easier to use and how make it more good and no one could use it for money laundry, that the fundamental idea in bitcoin that makes so many people jump on it cause its trustable and really good for transaction, but the volatility is the things that make it hard to be transactions item.

Physical Bitcoins are a misconception that would make the encrypted world disappear at once, because physical Bitcoins would put the community back on its feet, and the drawbacks are obvious.

I really don't see a future in that direction. It's not so smart to be honest. I understand the idea of making it more like a standardized currency. Something we were all used to. But that's just a small picture. The bigger picture is revolutionizing how we see and spend money (currency). A physical Bitcoin is more like a step backward. It kills the whole digital currency thing, I suppose. That's my own opinion though.

That is a one step to make Bitcoin more familiar to local businesses and individuals because most still don't believe in a currency that is not tangible and if Bitcoin become tangible that can do a big difference not only for Bitcoin but for the entire crypto world and it's future and this will never work to make a negative impact on Bitcoins future but to help its journey to achieve its ultimate goal in to become the first and best digital global currency in the world 

I think physical form of bitcoin will remain as collectible items and valued not like as bitcoin as digital currency in this time but i think also that someday in the future someone can make it possible that bitcoin will become physical and functions like fiat.

I think this will nullify the purpose of being a digital currency also as of now, the value of Bitcoin is fluctuating and  unstable.

I never said it would function like FIAT... Just the opposite. I would want to have a good system in which you can always check BTC on that "bill" so that you know it is backed by a real BTC on blockchain. And the chance to exploit this would be minimum.

As I see most of the people are against phsyical form. I just want you to imagine it like this: you go in a shop on vacations in a 3rd world country and unfortunately internet connection is not available there and BOOOOM BTC means nothing there. This is the problem I see. I don't assume there would be more then few % of BTC in physical form. But they could really become in handy when there is no internet connection. Unless whole world is covered with internet connection (probably with satelites) and have up-time more then 99,9% we need something physical for exchanges. I want to see and use BTC as currency not just as a tool for speculators.

in my opinion, one should not come to the physical bitcoin because physical money is not surprising, and the future is behind digital currencies and bitcoin is exactly that, so bitcoin will be the strongest and best digital currency of the future

Did you read one post above? Or just spamming?
I just exposed problem BTC has in order to become worlds currency...

I think it is not  necessary to make BTC real. It is more comfortable to use BTC on the net because you don't have to do manipulations in real life. Moreover it is safer and faster

If we turn Bitcoin into a tangible or physical currency it may seems like Bitcoin will become more usable but that makes it difficult to use and the security and safety will be terrible because it won't be on the BlockChain anymore if we make Bitcoin into a physical currency but first we should think do we really need to do that in order to make Bitcoin more usable because for an Example the train ticket was issues as a paper but in many develop countries there are digital systems for that and it has become more usable and convenient than a paper so making Bitcoin a paper currency will not solve the problem we have right now the best thing to do is promote it and use it often to make it accessible popular in the world

If you understand Bitcoin then you know that it can only exist on blockchain. So the underlying security would stay the same. What would be hard is transferring ownership of that certain bitcoin number. You could've had only a bill representing that number or actually swap private keys.
I agree, the most important thing atm is to spread it's usability and actually use it. Maybe this could proceed faster if you can give something physical to people... I think majority of the people would be more open to this new technology after they've touched something physical.

why not? if btc has been issued a physical form and been used offline  , many people will trust it and many people will now use it which can result for a better inflation .

how much more if it is in offline? btc is more easier to use if we can feel and touch it because we can instantly make a transaction without the hassel of fees and delays .

yes it can be the future and we should push that idea , so that devs and inventors can now start to make a design about its physical container .

Bitcoin is only partially able to regain its physical form and this is already happening. Thus, the Singapore firm Tangem issued its banknotes in denominations of 0.01 and 0.05 bitcoins. However, I would not say that this is better than the virtual form of bitcoin. Just for some, this form will be more convenient, for others there is not. Both forms have a right to exist.

Good concept but hard to implement and even if we do that there will be many problems because even Bitcoin is great as a digital asset we would miss such qualities once we turn that into a paper currency because border less and barrier less transactions will be much difficult in a tangible form like we face in fiat money and there are other major problems will occur if something like that implemented which can make many limitations for Bitcoin   

Physical Bitcoin has both advantages and disadvantages. With a physical form,  the problem of high fee can be solved. Also, people don't need to have high knowledge are able to use Bitcoin because it is much similar to other currency. But the disadvantages is that, we are heading to a cashless society and Bitcoin was created to promote that. Physical form seems to against the original purposes of Bitcoin

Personally, I think the reason why Bitcoin was created is to solve the shortcomings of physical money and lessen the dependence on the authority issuing it. If we try to issue a physical form of Bitcoin, we are getting Bitcoin centralized. Everything will be back to the square.

The safety of physical form will be nowhere near as high as the digital one, I believe. And it seems to me that physical from will be against the trand. Nowadays, everything tends to be digitalized, but Bitcoin, already a digitalized money, is finding a way to be physicalized? Does that make sense?

If Bitcoin goes physicalized, the high fee problems will be solved well. Physical Bitcoin is simple enough and requires no fee for each transaction. People who are tech-dumb can easily to approach Bitcoin. But meanwhile, legistration will be an obstacle. Governments will definitely intervene or crack down on it.

We know that bitcoin is now using for internet purposes but if the value of bitcoin is stable and it has a physical shape so it will be more valuable and it will be a universal currency but i don't think so it will possible in the coming 10 years.

We must keep in mind that governments are nothing without it's people.
Same goes with FIAT money. It is worth nothing if world population don't trust in it's value. So if people would make this transition quickly richest FIAT people would lose all their power.
But of course those people are smart - meaning if they won't be able to win against they will use it to generate even more value. So be smart, outsmart wealthiest people and you will definitely win.

physical bitcoin will never be because it is fundamentally wrong with respect to technology

Bitcoin gain its popularity only because of its virtual form and if it released as a solid currency then I think it will lose its popularity and also users and hope it will never going to happen.

No if bitcoin becomes physical then whats the difference between flat and crypto... Everything will be same then... everyone likes online transaction because they are not gonna take any space in our pocket. So better to be digital.

You do know that digital/physical form is not the only difference between cryptocurrencies and FIAT money? If I remember correct 97% of FIAT money is in digital form.
If we would develop good system every physical BTC would be backed by digital BTC hence all properties stay the same. And I hope you know that BTC has limited supply. And this is just one of the many differences between FIAT and cryptocurrencies.

lol obviously not, answering bitcoin in the form of fiat is the future he is a fool. what's the use of the blockchain system if it ends up being the same as paper money today.

The main difference between fiat and crypto is fiat has physical existence but crypto is virtual and if crypto also make physical subject then what will become the difference between them.

I think it is not practical to convert a virtual currency like Bitcoin into a paper currency without a centralized authority and if we do that it might get worse than fiat money because Bitcoin is popular as a digital currency in the digital world and it is considered as the king in the crypto world but when we think about the fiat world if we convert Bitcoin to a paper currency its main competitors would be United states dollar and other major fiat currencies which is impossible for Bitcoin to win the game because there stability in price and trust they have gained for years

I don’t believe that a physical existence of bitcoin is necessary. I mean after all the whole concept of the currency is that is it completely online and decentralized.

i also think that a bitcoin coin will bring some good benefits like the fees.
But we would also loose some good points like the security ....maybe it will be easy t print out that coin like fake money XD



kind regards

Certainly converting Bitcoin into paper form has some benefits because most old people who doesn't have any knowledge about digital currencies and how to use them but if we focus on them or other insignificant reasons and bend the technology of Bitcoin to become a paper currency we loose the future benefits of a great digital currency forever because in the future most functions in the world will run upon digital technology and Bitcoin will have the ability to fit with them easily

But you can't deny that in certain cases and under specific conditions (for example, when there is no Internet access in some hole), paper bitcoins could be quite useful - if we assume there is no more fiat sticking around. In fact, we don't even need physical bitcoins as such (though they would be perfectly legit) since depositary notes of some Bitcoin bank would do just fine, especially if you can at any time check their validity using a block explorer, that a certain note is actually linked to a certain amount of bitcoins on the blockchain. If I recall correctly, some company had already tried something like that in the past

It was BitNotes, if I'm not mistaken

Some prefer paper Bitcoin because most currencies today used as paper currencies and that is the common way but this common way is digitizing rapidly and as an example print out papers that we used in our offices are not used often that much to save money and carbon so instead of that we use an electronic mail system which is very convenient and cost effective than a paper so it is the same for Bitcoin in paper form and digital from so even paper form is preferred today in the future digital from will be accepted as better

Now, it seems to me, the probability of the appearance of physical bitcoin is not very high. At least batch production.

It is a great concept and smart way to convert Bitcoin into paper currencies for necessary people in essential scenarios and of course today Bitcoin is entirely depending on the Internet and electricity and still many areas and regions in the world doesn't have those facilities properly and even have most retail and other payment options desire paper currencies over digital currencies so in such situations converting Bitcoing paper currency might be very valuable 

The beauty of the bitcoin is digital figure and its use through online purchasing and payments against services etc. So, I think we should have to provide internet for to make it common and I think there may not be a single country who do not have the facilities of using internet, even internet is almost present everywhere.

Sure for online payments, you wouldn't use physical form, obviously. But what if you are paying at a restaurant? Will you wait approximately 1 hour because they want 6 confirmations? What if you just happen to be in a store and there is no internet access? Will you wait until the internet comes? I never said we should go 100% into physical form. But it still brings some advantages. Actually, it brings a lot. I think adoption would also be a lot faster if BTC would also be represented in some secure/fair/transparent etc. physical form.

No restaurants I have been to have waited for even 1 confirmation.  Remember they also serve you food before you even pay, so if your intention was to be an asshole and not pay you already could have done that without bothering to prepare a Finney attack.

As to offline payments, there are a few forms of paper "bitcoin check" which one can prepare in advance.  The simplest is probably the check which has on it a private key containing some sum, of course the proprietor can't check or transfer until they go online but this is how cheques have always worked.  Another is to prepare a signed transaction,  very similar in practice as the proprietor can't check that it's valid or will clear until they go onilne. 

Physical forms aren't going to help you with this stuff. 

Don't you think they would need some kind of "safety switch" if the use of BTC would widely increase? They just can't afford to lose money if tx does not get included in longest chain. Yes, they serve you food before you pay, but imagine you "pay" go home and see the other day that tx was not included in BC. How big is a chance that you'll resend it? I think a lot smaller then paying for food while you're still there.
Got any links of this? Haven't seen it yet. Making tx offline would also work well yes. But again there maybe a way to exploit it. I.e. use fake app. I think the ownership exchange of money must be instant, with minimal to no chance of exploit.
I am 95% that an old person (50+) who is not very familiar with computer would listen to you easier if you can hand him a paper before starting talking.