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Title: Bitcoin Fees Post by: realchlorum on June 25, 2017, 04:23:08 PM Hey,
i recently looked up out of interest what i payed back in the day in Fees. Its insane how much the fees increased. 2016-02-09 58$: 26 cents Fees. 2017-06-19 50$: 1.91$ Fees. I hate it everyday when i pay with bitcoins. Bitcoin turns into Fiat Fees. The Fees completly destroyed luckyb.it/ for example. They needed to make it a High rolling game. I wondered why is the increase so much recently? And whats the solution to it? I pay everything i can on the internet via btc but the fees make it really expensive if you add them together compared to back in the day. And thats not even a long time i used for an example. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Cereberus on June 25, 2017, 04:57:24 PM Hey, i recently looked up out of interest what i payed back in the day in Fees. Its insane how much the fees increased. 2016-02-09 58$: 26 cents Fees. 2017-06-19 50$: 1.91$ Fees. I hate it everyday when i pay with bitcoins. Bitcoin turns into Fiat Fees. The Fees completly destroyed luckyb.it/ for example. They needed to make it a High rolling game. I wondered why is the increase so much recently? And whats the solution to it? I pay everything i can on the internet via btc but the fees make it really expensive if you add them together compared to back in the day. And thats not even a long time i used for an example. Fees are based on satoshi/byte size of a bitcoin transaction. Now if you keep collecting a lot of micro payments from mining or from faucets to the same bitcoin address or to the same wallet containing different addresses will result in higher fees when you want to spend all the available bitcoin you have in such wallet. Let me make you an example, when I received only 1 payment of 0.08 btc to a single address and then sent it all to another address I only paid 0.001 btc in fees. When I received a lot of different payments to different addresses in another wallet of mine and wanted to spend all available bitcoins the fees were crazy up to 0.026 bitcoin for sending 0.52 btc. Now it is the user who should be careful, read more and get more and more familiar with fees because nowadays they are playing an important role in the bitcoin ecosystem. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: vh on June 25, 2017, 05:01:32 PM Why?
Increase in bitcoin price, Increase in number of bitcoin transactions. Possible solutions: 1. Wait for bitcoin price to drop and the $ per tx will fall too. 2. Wait for bitcoin network to become less congested. 3. Wait for changes to go into play allowing more tx to fit into a block. 4. Take the risk at lower fees and experiment with the so called accelerators. #3 is probably the longer term solution everyone is watching out for. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: absy on June 25, 2017, 05:07:54 PM Things I do to prevent fee
1. Convert it to other altcoins like doge and then do the transactions . 2. Use the tx accelator sometimes :) Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: EXtremeAEX on June 26, 2017, 05:44:53 AM i recently looked up out of interest what i payed back in the day in Fees. Honestly, Bitcoin was not meant to be a digital currency for daily usage, but rather meant for an investment. I agree that the fees have gone up so high that faucets are not worth, and small donations/transactions are wasted due to fees.Its insane how much the fees increased. 2016-02-09 58$: 26 cents Fees. 2017-06-19 50$: 1.91$ Fees. I hate it everyday when i pay with bitcoins. Bitcoin turns into Fiat Fees. The Fees completly destroyed luckyb.it/ for example. They needed to make it a High rolling game. If you are not in a hurry and you can customize your fees (if you are using a bitcoin client), then you can choose to minimize your fees if you are not in a hurry. However if you set too low fees, it may not go through. Check this thread below. :) Low/Zero Fees (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1984426.0) Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: buwaytress on June 26, 2017, 05:52:47 AM I, on the other hand, have learnt that as I control my fees and funds, I am finding ways to pay cheaper and cheaper transactions. For example, "back in the day" when I first started in 2016, I'd used flat-fee wallets to transact mostly. For a while, this meant I paid flat 20k satoshi or so on a lot of dust, so I probably saved money over the long run.
I then also realised I was paying a lot of fees for dust accumulated in Electrum. These days, I transact far less often than before. I try to keep my inputs lean. I try to time my spends to coincide with non-congested network, and try to bundle them together (for example, my freelancing work, I get lump sump payments rather than per item now). I'm paying lower fees now, and still keep a very respectable <0.5% average fee on amounts. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: simik on June 26, 2017, 11:38:27 AM Most bitcoin wallets play it safe and set fees so that transactions get confirmed in the next block or two. But if you don't mind waiting 6-9 blocks (1-1.5 hours), you can get away with 1/10th the fees. Take a look at this graph:
https://bitcoinfees.github.io/misc/profile/ 330 sat/byte to get to the next block, but just 26-32 sat/byte to get confirmed in 6-9 blocks. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: iamTom123 on June 27, 2017, 08:07:15 AM The fees, the fees and the fees. I am really hoping that after the SegWit can be implemented then we can go back to the level a year ago where transactions are charged fairly and rationally. It seems to be beyond belief if Bitcoin fees would continue with the way they are as they are definitely already higher than fiat money transfers.
Bitcoin holders are already expressing a high level of exasperation and discouragement on paying higher fees because we all know that blockchain technology is supposed to keep the fees low and not make it exorbitantly high as they are now. Now, it would be a great travesty if after the SegWit the fees would remain the same all because those who are benefiting from it would not let it go. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Syke on June 27, 2017, 05:49:07 PM Most bitcoin wallets play it safe and set fees so that transactions get confirmed in the next block or two. But if you don't mind waiting 6-9 blocks (1-1.5 hours), you can get away with 1/10th the fees. Take a look at this graph: https://bitcoinfees.github.io/misc/profile/ 330 sat/byte to get to the next block, but just 26-32 sat/byte to get confirmed in 6-9 blocks. If you're patient, you can get away with 1 sat/byte fee and get it confirmed in a day or so. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: susila_bai on June 27, 2017, 07:46:23 PM Most bitcoin wallets play it safe and set fees so that transactions get confirmed in the next block or two. But if you don't mind waiting 6-9 blocks (1-1.5 hours), you can get away with 1/10th the fees. Take a look at this graph: https://bitcoinfees.github.io/misc/profile/ 330 sat/byte to get to the next block, but just 26-32 sat/byte to get confirmed in 6-9 blocks. If you're patient, you can get away with 1 sat/byte fee and get it confirmed in a day or so. I dont think that 1 sat/byte fees will confirm you transaction even on 48 hrs as almost it will get rejected, you have to put atleast some nominal fees if not why the miner will take your transaction for confirmation. Ya it is true that ViaBTC accelerator is working good and if you put minimum 50 sat/byte fees it will get your confirmation soon in 3 to 4 hrs time. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: vh on June 27, 2017, 08:05:35 PM Most bitcoin wallets play it safe and set fees so that transactions get confirmed in the next block or two. But if you don't mind waiting 6-9 blocks (1-1.5 hours), you can get away with 1/10th the fees. Take a look at this graph: https://bitcoinfees.github.io/misc/profile/ 330 sat/byte to get to the next block, but just 26-32 sat/byte to get confirmed in 6-9 blocks. If you're patient, you can get away with 1 sat/byte fee and get it confirmed in a day or so. I haven't seen any statistics regarding minimum relay fees lately. With the amount of potential spam about, I suspect it has become common for node owners to set one. Will that low a fee even propagate to a block solving node? Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Syke on June 28, 2017, 10:46:56 PM I haven't seen any statistics regarding minimum relay fees lately. With the amount of potential spam about, I suspect it has become common for node owners to set one. Will that low a fee even propagate to a block solving node? 1 sat/byte is the current default minimum relay. Few nodes change from the default. It'll get relayed to virtually everyone and mined just fine. I know, 2 weeks ago I sent 5.5 btc, just under 1500 bytes with just over 1500 sats, and it confirmed in a few hours. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Hatcher on June 28, 2017, 11:00:22 PM Most bitcoin wallets play it safe and set fees so that transactions get confirmed in the next block or two. But if you don't mind waiting 6-9 blocks (1-1.5 hours), you can get away with 1/10th the fees. Take a look at this graph: https://bitcoinfees.github.io/misc/profile/ 330 sat/byte to get to the next block, but just 26-32 sat/byte to get confirmed in 6-9 blocks. If you're patient, you can get away with 1 sat/byte fee and get it confirmed in a day or so. Not that quick, but I got 1.547 sats/byte confirmed in 24.5 days (https://blockchain.info/tx/7f508fac998c34d68cfc2dbc3b76cf3482b071106d08b31f194be0e8d72f7f98). I had patience. :D Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Syke on June 28, 2017, 11:24:16 PM Not that quick, but I got 1.547 sats/byte confirmed in 24.5 days (https://blockchain.info/tx/7f508fac998c34d68cfc2dbc3b76cf3482b071106d08b31f194be0e8d72f7f98). I had patience. :D Yeah, small micro-transactions with low fees like that will be the lowest priority, but they will relay and likely confirm. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: carlfebz2 on June 29, 2017, 02:56:22 AM Not that quick, but I got 1.547 sats/byte confirmed in 24.5 days (https://blockchain.info/tx/7f508fac998c34d68cfc2dbc3b76cf3482b071106d08b31f194be0e8d72f7f98). I had patience. :D Yeah, small micro-transactions with low fees like that will be the lowest priority, but they will relay and likely confirm. Back to op, you cant do anything about it on the sudden price increase of tx fee on bitcoin and you are not the only one having a problem on that. This is why when you tried to make transfers then better to avoid micro tx becuase fees will hurt you out. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Bothebu on June 29, 2017, 03:48:37 AM To avoid micro wallet deposits creating large numbers of inputs am I better sending them to an exchange and let them "consolidate" there and then move them when I need them? IF I send to my Electrum wallet after a month I have 30 inputs, which is going to cost a fortune to move. I just tried to move 12 days worth and the lowest fees setting was still going to amount to about $15. Middle of the road setting was $25. To move $84 worth of BTC is going to cost $25? Not doing that. So is the exchange consolidation plan viable?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: HCP on June 29, 2017, 04:33:07 AM Probably not... most online services have a minimum deposit amount, usually around the 0.001 region... anything less than that will be considered a "donation" :P
So be careful that you don't lose any coins attempting to send dust payments to exchanges etc. Where are you getting these inputs from? Fauceting? Cloud mining? Can you not set the minimum payout amount to 0.01 or higher? That way you won't get as many UTXOs and your transaction sizes and fees won't be made unnecessarily large. Poloniex has this to say about minimum deposit amounts: Quote from: https://poloniex.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/1000249112-minimum-deposit-amount Some currencies have a minimum amount for deposits, this amount is written at the deposit page under each currency deposit address. So maybe your consolidation plan will work... but bear in mind that you have no control of the fees they choose to send your transaction out with...If you send less than the minimum by mistake, you can simply send more until the balance of the deposit address is above the minimum, you can use a block explorer to track the address balance, simply search for your Poloniex deposit address on the block explorer to check exactly how much you already have at your deposit address and how much you still need to send. Please mind the network fee when making the transaction, 1 ETH after the network fee will be .99 ETH, if the minimum limit is 1 ETH the .99 ETH will not credit until more ETH is sent. This apply to all coins with a minimum deposit limit. Once the deposit address is funded with enough balance the whole amount will be automatically credited to your Poloniex account. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Dart18 on June 29, 2017, 10:06:35 AM Dont wonder. ;D Just look at how many numbers the bitcoin price have gotten into.
That is why it really takes a lot of money for every transaction. Actually, I have thought of this. Why the hell it became the opposite. When bitcoin is cheaper, miners need a lot of money for electric bills. So they should have increase the tx fees. Now that it is so expensive, why do the increase? ;D Lame and somehow it looks like greed. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Bothebu on June 29, 2017, 04:58:59 PM Probably not... most online services have a minimum deposit amount, usually around the 0.001 region... anything less than that will be considered a "donation" :P So be careful that you don't lose any coins attempting to send dust payments to exchanges etc. Where are you getting these inputs from? Fauceting? Cloud mining? Can you not set the minimum payout amount to 0.01 or higher? That way you won't get as many UTXOs and your transaction sizes and fees won't be made unnecessarily large. Poloniex has this to say about minimum deposit amounts: Quote from: https://poloniex.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/1000249112-minimum-deposit-amount Some currencies have a minimum amount for deposits, this amount is written at the deposit page under each currency deposit address. So maybe your consolidation plan will work... but bear in mind that you have no control of the fees they choose to send your transaction out with...If you send less than the minimum by mistake, you can simply send more until the balance of the deposit address is above the minimum, you can use a block explorer to track the address balance, simply search for your Poloniex deposit address on the block explorer to check exactly how much you already have at your deposit address and how much you still need to send. Please mind the network fee when making the transaction, 1 ETH after the network fee will be .99 ETH, if the minimum limit is 1 ETH the .99 ETH will not credit until more ETH is sent. This apply to all coins with a minimum deposit limit. Once the deposit address is funded with enough balance the whole amount will be automatically credited to your Poloniex account. I get about .0028 everyday from cloud mining BTC. Genesis doesn't have a minimum threshold, they send once per day, no matter what. I asked support they said they would be less desirable to hackers since they don't hold large balances. And if they did have a hack, they could easily cover one day worth of mining without going out of business. I changed my wallet for genesis to an exchange, lets see what happens for a bit. Thanks for reply. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Syke on June 29, 2017, 05:19:47 PM To avoid micro wallet deposits creating large numbers of inputs am I better sending them to an exchange and let them "consolidate" there and then move them when I need them? IF I send to my Electrum wallet after a month I have 30 inputs, which is going to cost a fortune to move. I just tried to move 12 days worth and the lowest fees setting was still going to amount to about $15. Middle of the road setting was $25. To move $84 worth of BTC is going to cost $25? Not doing that. So is the exchange consolidation plan viable? Be patient and go with the minimum fee (~1 sat/byte). Your minimum consolidation fee should be about $.15. That's an extremely low .2% fee. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Bothebu on June 29, 2017, 09:27:12 PM To avoid micro wallet deposits creating large numbers of inputs am I better sending them to an exchange and let them "consolidate" there and then move them when I need them? IF I send to my Electrum wallet after a month I have 30 inputs, which is going to cost a fortune to move. I just tried to move 12 days worth and the lowest fees setting was still going to amount to about $15. Middle of the road setting was $25. To move $84 worth of BTC is going to cost $25? Not doing that. So is the exchange consolidation plan viable? Be patient and go with the minimum fee (~1 sat/byte). Your minimum consolidation fee should be about $.15. That's an extremely low .2% fee. I use electrum, i slid the slider all the way to the left to the lowest setting. The fees to transmit 12 inputs of ~.0028 BTC (total of .0336) was the equivalent of $15 USD in BTC at $2500/BTC. So, it would be $15 to transmit $84....crazy. I don't care if it takes a week to confirm, but the slider didnt go any lower. Unless there is a trick to electrum I dont know about. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Bothebu on June 29, 2017, 09:33:28 PM I just went into electrum and I found how you can set fees manually. I can get them pretty low! Thanks ;) The default setting is dynamic fees.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Aveatrex on June 30, 2017, 12:33:35 PM Dude you are lucky lol,I am using Xapo and paying 0.0018 btc in fees thats 4.5 usd... I started using bitcoins instead of paypal because of fees but now bitcoins fees are higher than Paypal that's insane amount of fees comparated to other payments ways..
Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Muhammed Zakir on June 30, 2017, 01:23:47 PM Dude you are lucky lol,I am using Xapo and paying 0.0018 btc in fees thats 4.5 usd... I started using bitcoins instead of paypal because of fees but now bitcoins fees are higher than Paypal that's insane amount of fees comparated to other payments ways.. That is indeed high! IMO, you should use a different wallet. https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#24h Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Bothebu on June 30, 2017, 09:30:52 PM So I manually configured the fees in Electrum to: 2.645 sat/B. Transmitted about 24 hours ago, still no confirmations. If it takes a month I don't care. Not desperate for the coins. Also, pointing my cloud mining to an exchange...working. Let the exchange consolidate for me!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Shenzou on June 30, 2017, 10:11:01 PM Dude you are lucky lol,I am using Xapo and paying 0.0018 btc in fees thats 4.5 usd... I started using bitcoins instead of paypal because of fees but now bitcoins fees are higher than Paypal that's insane amount of fees comparated to other payments ways.. I think Xapo are gone too far with thier fees, i personally had to pay 5$ fee for a 10 dollar transaction and that is only standard fee, and the transaction was not as fast as i thought it will be , so there is no point from paying fees on Xapo, i personally think that Xapo has made a huge mistake, and many people have started switching to other wallets, in fact i siwtched to blackchain they have better fees.Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Bothebu on July 01, 2017, 02:14:36 AM So I manually configured the fees in Electrum to: 2.645 sat/B. Transmitted about 24 hours ago, still no confirmations. If it takes a month I don't care. Not desperate for the coins. Also, pointing my cloud mining to an exchange...working. Let the exchange consolidate for me! Just got my first confirmation....28 hours... Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: Russlenat on July 01, 2017, 04:35:43 AM Dude you are lucky lol,I am using Xapo and paying 0.0018 btc in fees thats 4.5 usd... I started using bitcoins instead of paypal because of fees but now bitcoins fees are higher than Paypal that's insane amount of fees comparated to other payments ways.. I think Xapo are gone too far with thier fees, i personally had to pay 5$ fee for a 10 dollar transaction and that is only standard fee, and the transaction was not as fast as i thought it will be , so there is no point from paying fees on Xapo, i personally think that Xapo has made a huge mistake, and many people have started switching to other wallets, in fact i siwtched to blackchain they have better fees.These 5$ fee for 10$ is an insane fee >:(, I think they have fix fee amount for any transaction or these is maybe the error of there system, just try to contact there support. Title: Re: Bitcoin Fees Post by: achow101 on July 01, 2017, 05:38:44 PM This thread is being locked. OP has not responded and the thread is becoming a place for spammers now.
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