Bitcoin Forum

Most Bitcoin critics often cite crime as reason for wanting Bitcoin obliterated. I doubt crime is the real reason. . It could well just be a subconscious thing they have no control over::  like Hatred for the weak, poor and middle class,  Preference for elitism, fascism and dictatorship,

PROOF:
Tools like VPNs and Proxies almost have thesame capability as Bitcoin but you hardly hear the complain about them.


To be honest, most people with this weird ideology don't really have problems with people becoming financially independent . Their problem is just the FREEDOM money brings to people. They wouldn't give a damn about your wealth so long as you are totally under their control.

Tools that bring freedom are a double edged sword, because with freedom then you are free to do bad things too. So the only way out is to consider the pros and cons and I think it's clear that the pros are better than cons.

For example in Venezuela with their corrupt government ruining everyone's lives bitcoin is very useful and crucial. If other governments wanted to ban it, then they would ruin it for them too.

Columbus didnt discovered America because he was a prisoner. People must have some kind of freedom to do decent things otherwise what is the point?

Same with: Einstein, Curie, Edison, Tesla,.....

If Einstein would have been captured by the Nazis, he would have never invented the great theory of relativity which changed physics forever....

Innovators must be free.

 That's not proof!  It doesn't even constitute evidence.  How did you conclude that VPNs and proxies have almost the same capability as Bitcoin? 

They have the same capability what?

Well yea, if you're speaking about using vpns, proxies, amd bitcoins for anonymity, then you may have a point. But guess what. Some proxy and vpn provides can sell their customer's info to the feds or whatever authority.

Also, critics/skeptics that hate bitcoin because of it being used for crimes are probably just uneducated when talking about cryptocurrencies.

You want proof? Look at BurtW's account of what happened to him (http://www.burtw.com/burt-s-account.html).

They never charged him with an actual crime. Just the Bitcoin. And even that wasn't ever fully explained.

Where is the proof?
Though you have a point that people are less likely to be tracked by the Government when they use Bitcoin the people within the Government don't really like that so they go against Bitcoin.

Crime is just a certain term for only a specific group of individuals. Having the Government not controll another person is a totally different thing.

You would be surprised what the actual capability of the intelligence agencies are. If they really want to the will track you. Shady deals o Bitcoin is a mall percentage. This argument of crime is just terrible. Fiat can be used for crime just as much.
If you end up on the radar of the intelligence community there is nothing that can help you.

Tools like VPNs and Proxies are under their control and that is why they are not too worried about it. They also have control over all traffic

going over their infrastructure ---> https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ ... It is also rumoured that most traffic is channelled through data

warehouses owned and operated by government secret agencies. So they control all unencrypted data with the help of huge corporate entities

like Google and Facebook.....  ::)

Many bitcoin critics are trolls. Perhaps the bankers have begun to think about the competition and pay discredit bitcoin. Maybe it's a conspiracy theory, but I think that the latest ransomware virus demanding a ransom in bitcoins is to discredit cryptocurrencies. But the virus itself is a simple exercise that intelligence. Do you like this idea?

Is this really a surprise to you though? Anything that cannot be controlled by the upper echelons is something they have to seek to stamp out, and if you're trying to do anything outside of the status quo and not merely capitulate to whatever you are being told, you end up on some list somewhere. Although everyone is on a list these days so there's no point behind it.

Reminder that in the early 20th century houses were, on average, half one's yearly income. In 2016, it is 4x a person's yearly income for most ""lower-end"" houses.

To use these terms nowadays is a bit dubious, as leftists misrepresented their meanings to victimize themselves, lure people into their dirty ideas and control the world.

But it's true there are bigger interests that make the public opinion be against Bitcoin. Not because the VPS, but because the banks power and control over the countries economies. Bitcoin brings more accessibility and advantages for everyone who uses it, you can even borrow money with cheaper rates and faster, banks don't like it.

You don't put your money on bank's hands, so they can't use it to make profit for them and share a little part with you later, they are losing profit when you change bank account for BTC wallet.

I don't know if it works this way everywhere, but that is what I see where I live.

...

I have no idea of the capabilities of the intelligence agencies re Bitcoin as well as VPNs and proxies. 

I certainly would very much welcome informed discussion of these topics.

But, whether any of BTC, VPNs, or proxies are broken to me does not make that much difference (although I would much prefer my privacy), these tools allow you to be shielded against almost ALL OTHER THREATS than the government.  Except Microsoft if the rumors are true about the Win 10 Keystroke Logger....

*   *   *

Also, it's probably good to note that there is something called "The Firehose Problem", if "they" are collecting everything (and storing it in Utah at the data center), that is a LOT of data.  I presume that only the highest threats to .gov would be examined closely...

Are you sure about this? How VPN and proxies can provide same capability like bitcoin  :o  :o I think you should read about them once again, bitcoin sole propose was not only to provide anonymity. It was designed to give total financial freedom and privacy which we can't get when using any of vpns, proxy or tor network.

That is what my question too.  How could VPN and proxies have the same capability as Bitcoin, I have not heard any news people using VPN and Proxy as payment to buy them goods. And Bitcoin does not offer a good anonymity either since all transaction were publicly displayed.  I agree that  he needs to review the features of this three  things. (Bitcoin, VPN, Proxy)

Exactly. they thought they can get away with crimes using bitcoin. But they don't know that bitcoin is pseudo anonymous. And it a government agency wants to track you it will be easy because its like following a paper trail. So you can't get away with it. You will see a lot of news people being tracked by their bitcoin address.

This is all about to change, anyone will be able to make there transactions anonymous pretty soon with all the new privacy chains coming online. Heck I've thought about doing it if the BTC fees weren't so high right now.

No one hates bitcoin, no one hates weak and poor you just made that up, hating bitcoin is like hating the internet or computer, bitcoin is nothing but lines of code written by man, it does whatever the code says and it has no mind of it's own, people usually hate on living beings because they can talk and have opinions of their own, they can oppose them or harm them that's why they hate them.

To be fair, LE (law enforcement) and intelligence agencies (like CIA, NSA, FBI) own & run a lot of proxies and VPN's.

TOR could be moreso what you're looking for.

Although it could be said that intelligence has been trying to find ways to monitor TOR as well if they haven't already.

And THAT ^^^ is what I have been trying to learn more about.

Perhaps the next great career choice for a young person (college age) might be to getting a PhD is Cryptography and/or similar applied math.

Finding (and proving) unbreakable cryptography would be a HUGE thing.

Yea you're right. Right now the main excuse is terrorism. That's also why prepaid phone cards are slowly but surely getting banned. Because it's nearly untraceable.

Your point is correct, but there are still people who are opposed to Bitcoin due to its anonymity, while for VPNs people have become accustomed to them. You forgot to compare 2 things, Bitcoin and VPNs are totally different. Bitcoin is a payment method, while a VPN can only hide your activity and do illegal stuff. But when you pay for the illegal stuff, people are then opposed to bitcoin. Even though people say cash is more anonymous, that is only so if you are within a distance of the person you are paying.

Every currency has problems, but that is no excuse to not use it.

Well crime is going to be one of the easy ones for people to point to, and it's also one of the easy ones that the news can touch on to be able to get people scared of adopting Bitcoin. I'd actually appluad them for doing it, as they're pointing to peoples worst fears (getting them views) and then tying it in with Bitcoin to be able to keep their banker overlords and owners happy and powerful. Though I and many others on this forum probably do know that the reason governments and bankers hate Bitcoin is going to be that they're heeding control of their power to someone else, something that they would never want to do.

Are they really close to getting banned? Any sources?

I think prepaid phone cards can be traceable through signal and through the phone itself(not the sim card). But yea, this easy solution for criminals to get past this is to buy very cheap mobile phones and just get rid of the phone after like every transaction and get a new one after.  :D

They already infiltrated Tor too, because they run many exit nodes. If you look at the tools that were leaked, then we are in bigger trouble than

most people have even considered yet. I just accepted that they OWN our data and if you stay away from criminal activities, then you should be

fairly safe from prosecution.  ???

The reason issue they have against bitcoin and hiding under the issue of crime is because they cannot exercise control and the fact that their own revenue cannot be guaranteed if they allow bitcoin free hand and the moment the money is not coming to finance the machineries of government then government cease to exist. With all the policies in place all over countries, have they been able to stop crime but looking into stopping bitcoin I am the moment they find their interest protected with bitcoin, they will give it free hand.

Right now, Bitcoin has not yet reached the very mainstream of our society and business and this can be the reason why many people have wrong perceptions and association with this digital currency. By the time that the smoke is cleared, people will have a balanced view towards the coin.

Crimes have been on the side of humanity ever since we can remember. Now, the tools that they are using is not actually the main issue because as far as the currency is concerned they could have used the dollar or any fiat money. Granted that Bitcoin has become the most convenient for hackers to use as payment mode for their shenanigans but it should not elevate the whole situation into the "destroy that Bitcoin' kind of thinking.

Yeah it's true, the story of double edged sword. I think freedom is good thing but there are those kind of people who use it in bad way which should be restricted. Now if we were able to vanish the crime from us then we could have settled better lives in this world. So it seems it's not possible to do it with bitcoin as well. No identity to know whose who? Then this trouble has to be there and one can just avoid it.

I don't think governments, banks and other powerful entities really hate Bitcoin, because it is just an investment tool...why should they be afraid of it? No reason. Indeed Bitcoin could become just another asset to make them become even richer.

Yes but they hate it because it is able to transfer funds globally and anonymously and bad people can use it to fund illegal projects without being found out. This is where the hatred basically comes from and not from the investment potential of Bitcoin.

I must confess that freedom is the main reason why do they hate bitcoin, something that they can't control. It is clear that Bitcoin is just a currency like dollar, euro, etc and people always have control over their money whether to do good things or some criminal activities. When they mentioned bitcoin in a bad way all I can see they're just jealous but they especially the government always looking for a way to control it which is too impossible, the simplest thing that they can do is only regulate it.

VPN and proxies are different with bitcoin, those has different features such as bitcoin could use to send huge amount of money under the radar and untraceable if people do it properly. Some people from may hate it because decentralized digital currency and can not be controlled but mostly people who judge it as bad thing because they just know that bitcoin being used by criminals to do transactions and money laundering, simply because lack of information.