Bitcoin Forum

These rules were written assuming a position of a newbie that has to send first payment to buy something from an older member of the Forum. Of course, if you have some reputation, and don't have to send first, these rules are mostly irrelevant. It's the other party that will take most of the risk. But you still have to take in account rule 10 and the possibility of a double spending. Better wait for one or two confirmations in the blockchain, before fulfilling your part of the deal.

Beware that these rules use three different grades of reputation: some, good and excellent.


1) Don't just trust the status of a member, anyone can be a hero member. This just means that he invested some time on his membership. He can always decide that a profitable scam will be a good payment for his time. However, a Hero account without negative feedback can be sold for more than 0.5 btcs. Therefore, he probably won't scam you for less than that, because a negative feedback from you would lower its value substantially. The same applies to a legendary up to about 1 btc.

2) Never deal with anyone without doing a search in the forum with his nickname, in order to check if he has scam accusations.

3) Ask for his coin address and always search it on http://blockchain.info, www.cryptocoinexplorer.com or other similar site, to verify if his address has the amounts he wants to sell.

4) Be very suspicious about proposals well under market price or if he accepts your proposal under market price with no negotiation.

5) Look for the reputation/trust of the member, checking also his successful trades, in the form of vouches from the other party on the deal. Be aware that positive trust can be forged by making and using more bitcointalk accounts and the efficacy of the trust system can be more or less limited by changing its settings.

6) Even if he has some reputation, don't send all the money in one transfer: send one first small tranche (ex. 0.05 btc) and wait for his payment. Send a second little higher tranche and wait again, etc. Small increments, because he might decide to pay you the first and second, to scam a bigger tranche. Always suspect if he doesn't accept to trade in small tranches, unless he has an excellent reputation.

7) If he has no reputation (specially if he is a newbie or Jr.), even small tranches are very risky. Better use an escrow system, like the one of www.btcrow.com, or a trusted member, or you might need to send more than 10 very small tranches. Think well before sending more than 0.15 btcs (it's considerable money in some countries) and only after 3 or 4 successful payments of 0.05 and 0.1 btcs.

8] For big amounts use an escrow system, unless the member has an excellent reputation. If he doesn't accept, forget the deal. Always protect your capital.

9) Only trade codes (ex. of virtual gift cards) with members with a good reputation or using a very trusted escrow member that will have to go to the account and apply the code himself. The buyer will have to give the escrow person his password and change it again after. With an automatic escrow system, the buyer can claim falsely that the code was already redeemed when he received it or that his account was blocked after.

10) Don't sell any cryptocoin to paypal or other reversible system, unless the buyer has good reputation. The buyer can chargeback and, since it's against paypal's TOS to trade currency, paypal usually gives your money back to the buyer.


Here is a list of escrow members: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108716.0

Take this in account, might save you money.

I am surprised nothing like this is stickied?

I am still a little unsure on how a escrow system is used, can't the person lie about sending.

You can use bitmit.net: just post anything you want to sell for bitcoins or ask the seller to do the same about something you want to buy. The payment in bitcoins is sent to their escrow system. If the buyer lies about sending, the system will reveal that he didn't already send the bitcoins. Once the bitcoins are received, a indication will appear automatically on the page of the deal at bitmit.net. If you are the seller and sent the goods to the buyer (for instance, another currency), once the buyer click item received, you receive the bitcoins from bitmit.net. If the buyer doesn't confirm that the goods were received, you write bitmit with evidence that you sent (like the transfer id) and they pay you fast. There is a 1.90% fee to pay.
http://www.bitmit.net/en/info/faq

Cool, so they use the transaction ID's of the Bitcoin thing to check if you sent or not. This can't be faked can it.

No it can't be faked. I posted more details.

While on the topic of how to avoid being scammed. Submitting a link to the transaction ID to PayPal, if you do use them, is not evidence of anything to them. I know many who were burned because they thought this would be enough proof.

Avoid using paypal to sell alt coins, because the buyer can always chargeback (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0). As stated, they won't accept the transaction id because it's against Paypal's TOS to use them to trade currency. Therefore, they like to teach lessons to sellers of alt currency and end up supporting scammers that buy them. But since alt coins are digital currency, any deal won't also be protected by their buyer protection system.

Newbies, better read this.

1) never deal with anyone in the forum.


should be enough.


Even if you use an escrow, you have no proof that he will do what he is supposed to do ...

that escrow site seems to be a useful idea, fee also isnt too high. Thanks a lot

And when the website will deal with 5k+ btc, the owner will leave with all the money :)

Bitmit.net is now very big. I can't exclude the possibility of a scam from them, but it's remote. Much more remote than the possibility of being scammed here. They are earning a lot. And most sellers don't leave the money there, so they might have smaller quantities of bitcoins on their system than one thinks. Even a small exchange has much more.
I have no relation with them, just used their system a few times and worked.
But there are alternatives, like http://btcrow.com/ and this one is cheaper (1% fee). But I never used them.

Thanks for the helpful info.

Very good guide, needs to be a sticky.
u
Bitmit even though takes small fees every time you sell a item, is the safest option I have came across, unless you use escrow of course, but bitmit uses escrow and makes it a lot simpler for a casual trader.
I have been trading on bitmit.net since 2012 and have NEVER had a problem, never.

Thanks for the advice as a noobie myself this is very informative.

I find the bitmit escrow service a fantastic idea :)

great advice :)

Thanks for the great list to start out - and actually review every so often as you go along.

Any experience with any of the Mining contracts out there?   I'm seeing that as a potential for a huge scam since you never see what's really going on behind the scenes. 

Just think--one day this will all be common sense!

This should be in the introduction where new people sign up! Just my .02 ;D

Thanks for the lookout

Yes good rules and people should be more careful, including me.

Never accepted any mining contract. It's nearly impossible to control how much coins are received, costs, etc., it's gambling with your money.

this one dude i saw on the internet said that for sure he's good for it and he'd never scam.  do you think he's legit?

great advice and im glad you added in the part about paypal chargeback, that's a very common scam from what i have heard :)

A honest person shouldn't say that he is honest. That is a judgment to be made by others. But it's impossible to make any judgment about his honesty based only on that. If he doesn't have a very good reputation, use bitmit or btcrow or send only very small tranches, waiting each time for his payment. Never send all in one, two or even three tranches even if he has some reputation. If he doesn't accept that, forget about the trade. Better loose an apparently profitable deal than all the capital you invested on the deal.

Thanks,it's helpful!

Thanks for this tread

Bumps will be certainly appreciated by newbies and might save them from a scam.

Better read.

I'd prefer small amount of coins on each transaction regardless of the reputation of the person i'd trade with. I know "small" is relative but for me it's less than 0.25 BTC

Take this in account, might save you money

Yes, and I am a French Model, because I said so on the Internet.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rmx4twCK3_I#t=11s


Common sense ain't so common on the Internet.

Great advice - thanks!

Very good advice indeed. Don't trust any random internet guy just because they got 800 posts or so - unless it's me :)

BUMP for good advice. Thank you Trading!

You are welcome all.

Better read.

Thank you. I take theses advices seriously.

Thank you.

Take this in account, might save you money.

Great tutorial thanks.

Very good info, thanks.

Better read.

The new trust system didn't change these rules. Ratings and positive comments will create a more accessible reputation.

Better check this.

And trust can be faked with alt accounts.

Up.

Bumping this important info up.

Rules updated taking in account bitcointalk's new status criteria and its trust system.

this needs a sticky

Up.

Rule #1: Never use Paypal to sell coins. Thats a time-bomb just waiting to go off.

It can be fine, if you trade with someone trusted

Up.

Darn Scammers.... thanks for the warnings ;DBTC

typo in #10 in op:  chergeback  should be  chargeback

Changed, thanks.

Thanx for info!

Thanks for the hints ;)

I'm hoping these will ruin some scams.

Better read.

Good read, thank you!  :)

Thanks

My pleasure.

Up.

I think it deserves a sticky, similar message, if not the same one is found in a stickied thread in the currency exchange section already.

Better read.

Up.

Updated some details.

thanks it was a pretty informative post, I think it deserves to be sticky. but I think this is more suitable to be in marketplace section though.

Thanks for posting this kind of information. Now I know what am I going to do.

You are welcome.

nice information

Despite the obvious things said.. and using a escrow for a reputable source.

Just know theres some people with green rep who scam when the right amount presents itself like a huge sum.

Some older versions of these rules are already sticked on some threads (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199141.0 and one or two more), but feel free to bump this some times. It might save a few newbies from some scammers.

i think beginners need this more, marketplace community already has a good sense of these rules.

Before of invest or mining on any coin read first AEWS thread:    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1170999.0   

Huge thanks for you
saved on my bookmarkes
i will always double-check about anything because i don't want to get scammed

Made another update.

Better read.

Read it, newbies.

One thing you might want to add is never pre-order a miner unless very well known/respected company and even then be careful.  Sadly a lot have lost to preorder miners over the years.

I know it almost got me once with terrahash.  I got lucky they took paypal trying to look more legit to offer paypal and btc.  But I paid paypal and got it back luckily.

We need to check reliability of a site or person using this forum or Google.
Escrow would play a big role in scam preventing.

This is already in the list on using escrow.  That is kinda a no brainier if a high priced item.

On google it really depends some are better then using it then others.  Some get really good data they do it as a service even.  Others data is not great.  For example I go by notlist3d on many places.  But if you look online some times other people using notlist3d who is not me (I cannot sign up for every site on internet to reserve it for me).  So google can pull in these false positives of other people who use same forum name but are not the same person.

Person?

We all are forum accounts only, very few people have their public identities revealed and accounts are bought and sold every day.

Except for a few trusted members, any person can be the owner of any account

The main rule underlaying most of the others is never pay first/upfront anything without checking the seller's reputation.
But thank you for your suggestion.

i always used escrow for every transaction in this forum,i used escrow from our moderator on our local thread, its totally free just send them the amount plus the fee for transaction both of the escrow and the seller, so far its really helping me to avoid scam

Yes I too guess escrow will save us in many situations.

Up.

Yes escrow prevents 90% chances of getting scammed.

Pefect love this kind of threads very helpfuly

An important rule not to get scammed is to stay away from PayPal completely! Unless the person doesn't send you bitcoins first which pretty much nobody will do since they all claim you are better protected since you can chargeback. 95% people trading for Paypal in the Currency exchange thread are scams. Other 5% are probably people with huge trust rate and reputation.

The best is to stay away from it altogether.

a nice set of rules i really want to thank Op for the post. :)

You are welcome.

Buying a digital gift card is always risky. If someone sold a fake gift card of a retailer site, this site isn't responsible.

i believe that you should be really careful with newbie accounts and always use escrow if you are buying something

Many thanks, this was vey helpfull to get started and avoid losses.

Yes I found many useful ways and steps we need to follow to avoid getting scammed and to protect our hard-earned bitcoins. Bitcoin transactions can be done safely with the many trusted veteran member here using them as Escrow.

Escrow can be a pain, since it forces you to ask for help from a third party; but if he has good reputation, the risk is very low and avoids the serious risk of trading with the main party directly. Of course, there is always the small tranches system, but you risk losing the small tranche.

But accounts like Steam or from other sites is always risky because the other part always can claim that the account has been hacked and recover it.

Some trades are risky even with escrow

Scamming in bitcoins happens very rarely though. But these precautions can help you be safe in such cases.
(1) Don't share your wallet address or private key without any reason.
(2) Use a protected and trusted bitcoins wallet. Blockchain and coinbase are most reliable.
(3) Always keep a backup of your wallet and keep backup file safe.. As someone may misuse it.

I think using any wallet can't makes me got scam.
Scam means that you are dealing with a person not an online wallet. Wallet just the media for transaction

You should also be really careful with anyone.
Don't trust the people around you.
Just trust them if you know them well.

really the detail what you gave is very precious for the beginners in this site ,  i have seen so many thread where all guidance are given to the new user about the site and how to use this site. i am very much impressed by this site

Feel free to repost this rules on any other forum.