Bitcoin Forum

Just wondering. As somone else noted here, it seems too much to not be highly weird that they were sitting in a single wallet. That sum may be enough to move the BTC price in any way. Moreover, it seems too much to have been plausibly earned in a legitimate way (anyone mined 100K+ BTCs?)   

About 8%. Bitcoins used to be cheaper and easier to mine, someone having 500K is not at all unusual (keeping them on mtgox up to now is, however).

Check this website to know how many BTCs exist http://bitcoinwatch.com/

Right now there are 6,603,000 BTC

Please define ‘unusual’.  With BTC 6.603M  in circulation right now, approximately 13 persons could have BTC 500k in their wallet if they held the total amount of BTC.  With that in mind, having BTC 500k cannot be called ‘not unusual’…

Cheers,

What I meant is that it is expected that at least one person in the world has this amount.

just is harder that BTC can become a normal-used value if someone has 500k and the others 1-100 i think that atm it is not-well distribuited (if we think that 21.000.000 is the max number)

Doesn't this devalue the market and the currency quite a lot?

One of the big sale points of BTC is the fact that it's p2p and not under control of 1 person. But the days events have suggested that at least 1 person has enough BTC to totally crash most markets. Whether the decision to sell all that at once was an informed conscious decision by the owner, or a hacker, there is still at least 1 person that can control the markets.

Is this right or wrong?
If the person has earned the money through legitimate ways than surely there's nothing wrong with it - but it does undermine the core values of BTW a little bit.

That will always be a concern unless you force an equal distribution somehow which would be a grossly unfair thing. There are probably people with enough USD to do similar things

Read about how George Soros crashed England in early 90s.

who exactly had 500k btc?
are you referring to the person who had """""500,000$usd""""" worth of btc 'stolen' ?
that was 25k btc.... kind of a big difference..

the 11th of may someone had 297k BTC and another over 100k, i suppose now they've more..

http://bitcoinreport.blogspot.com/2011/05/bitcoin-top-100-rich-list-27th-may-2011.html

likely deepbit or slushes pool or one of the exchanges no?

pools pay the miner, so i think it's so hard they can have 300k, dunno mtgox volume at moment btw we're talking about a single address..

most mining pools take a percentage (2-3%), with pools like deepbit solving a block every 2-20min currently (average of 17minutes per block at the moment) (months ago it would have been way way way easier) thats 1.5btc every few minutes to them.. or maybe i'm misunderstanding their cut?
https://deepbit.net/stats

by the looks of that they are making a couple hundred btc every day from the fee they are charging

Feel free to provide an example of a currency that IS evenly distributed.  Just because lots of people have a US Dollar doesn't mean it's evenly distributed.

I sez half million of frigging bitcoins.
You are not up to date with the biggest Bitcoin news of the week:

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19525.0

This revealed that bitcoin distribution is much more unequal than than dollars, euros, gold or whatever.
Too much advantage for early adopters to not smell, sound, and taste like a Ponzi.
I am going out of this.

There is more and less equal distribution (look for "Gini index"), but 8% of the global wealth in a single wallet is beyond bizarre.
And how would this guy earned this stash? Mining with his private multi-terahash pool for a couple of years? Selling drugs on a massive scale?
This is a ponzi and probably a scam too.
Ridicolous that nobody notice the enormity of the anomaly.


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Feel free to provide an example of a currency that IS evenly distributed.  Just because lots of people have a US Dollar doesn't mean it's evenly distributed.
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So basically you registered and opened this thread to tell us that you are out and that is a PONZI SCHEME and a SCAM?  :o


Meh

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/unsuccessful_troll.jpg

8% of the "global wealth" in a single wallet (at least for a single currency) is quite common in the real world.  Ask Warren Buffet, or Bill Gates.

As for how he got the coins, it's been noted, multiple times, in multiple articles and threads, that you opted not to read before posting, that he was a miner in 2009 and 2010 when the difficulty was quite low and there were not many miners.  Easily could have amassed that amount of BTC back then, with only moderate GPUs (heck, you could find blocks using CPUs back then).  So let's see 7200 coins / day production, 600 coins / day, that'd only be 6 weeks if he finds only 12 of the 144 blocks per day.

Just because it's hard today, doesn't mean it's always been hard, Mr. Chicken Little.

And I'm not sure what you're referring to as a "Ponzi" and "probably a scam".  If you mean Bitcoins, then you clearly do not understand how the network works, at all, and are not even familiar with how a Ponzi scheme works.

Links for your personal enlightenment and in the hopes you will one day post something with some merit:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Please do everyone a favor and become educated, at least a little, before posting.

Thanks for proving that you are speaking out of your ass.

Bill Gates Net Worth: $56 Billion: 2011
Total global wealth: USD 195 trillion (*)
(*) https://www.credit-suisse.com/news/en/media_release.jsp?ns=41610

That is several orders of magnitude away from 8%.

Yes, the bitcoin system is probably a worse oligarchy than any real world oligarchy, because ~1% of users have ~90% of the bitcoins in their hands, but that's the kind of situation you get with free market capitalism.

A Troll says, "What!?!?"

"Global Wealth" as defined by the amount of currency one owns / or can have personally. 
There is approximately $853 Billion in US Cash in circulation (http://www.visualeconomics.com/the-value-of-united-states-currency-in-circulation/)

8% of $853B is $68M.

Bill Gates is worth $56 Billion.

Ask yourself, could Bill Gates get $68M in cash?  Of course he could.  Using an analogy of "wealth" when discussing Bitcoins is silly.  The OP was commenting on 500K Bitcoins being in one wallet. 

Let's not mix our analogies.

umad?

I am still looking for how can this be a scam or a PONZI SCHEME  ::)

So, who opened the trolls cages?

$68B not $68M.  And no, Bill Gates couldn't get hold of $68 billion in cash.

Bill Gates worth is primarily in the form of stock and other assets.

Capitalism of the ponzi kind, where insiders "early adopters" of "moneis" pulled out of their asses backed by nothing  apart from the processor cycles of others who pay the bill get 90%+ of the dough free just for fooling suckers wannabe speculators attracted by the price inflation caused just by the tulip-mania.

I am going back to the real world capitalism as soon as I will be able to to unload my BTC to fools greater than me at the price that I paid, thanks

Me too, notice how he won't address that rant?


I'll tell you who:

Wired:  http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/gox/
CNBC:  http://www.cnbc.com/id/43464477  (this article makes me so mad, I'm writing a blog post refuting just about everything he said)
The Register:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/19/bitcoin_values_collapse_again/

Then they all come here and start Trolling forums.

I want to help Newbies, but I almost think we should make people pay 0.0001 BTC to get into the Forums at all.  That way you have to spend some time, setup the client, understand how it works, and find the BTC Faucet to send you 0.001 BTC, so you could send 0.0001 BTC to get into the forums and begin posting.

But I digress.

You're right.  Bad decimals.  I'm wrong on that point.  I still don't believe it changes anything, but I'll concede your point.
Though it's a LOT closer than you originally posted.  Nuff said.

Why are you being dollar-centric? BTC is global, and so must be the scheme of reference and comparison.
Feel free to abstain to answer me since i am not interested in your b/s.

c'mon, its not a ponzi scheme for the same reason i said, too ppl have lot of bitcoin so the rest has few BTC, in this case i think it is harder to create a solid economy behind because to do that ppl need to start using BTC, so they've to spread among ppl.. atm only a little % of ppl are using BTC and growing their wallet.. if ppl just keep their BTC and dont spend it, markets will never exist, so who has 300-500k BTC has just lot of "nothing".. if a resource is limited and only few ppl have it, why the other need to use it when there're lot of other currencies and markets builded around em?

i still think that 8% to a single person (and btw other big % to other person) is a killer for the system.. so....... 21kk limit is too low, because ppl still need to know BTC and so will not have it (except buying it at very high price, but that means that a market is builded around BTC, so tath means that lot of ppl have BTC and they're not only growing their wallet but they're spending)

it is a little contorted but it is what i think, and i really want that BTC will be a solid currency, so im not trolling, i just think that ppl are gonna speculate only on BTC.

I see you're still a Troll.

The answer to the question is simple.  You made an Analogy that 8% of the CURRNET Bitcoins was too large to have in a single wallet and that it was "impossible" for it not to be a "PONZI scheme".

I simply pointed out that 8% isn't all that much, in fact, we were only talking about the CURRENT Bitcoins in circulation, whereas a much more realistic notion would be 500K is what amount of ALL Bitcoins that could EVER exist.  That number is known to be 21,000,000.  So, then 500K is only 2.3% of the total.  

So, using my previous analogy (in which you so graciously pointed out my error):

Could Bill Gates have 2.3% of the US Currency in Circulation in a single "Wallet".  

That would be $19.6M, and yes sir, he most certainly could have $19M in cash, easily.

And why US Currency?  Because it's *a* currency.  Unless you believe the goal of Bitcoin is to replace every currency in the entire world.  It would make me happy, but alas, I think that is a bit grandiose.  I'm glad you're so optimistic though.

umad?

dont feed the troll, as i said the problem is another.. who has 500k BTC (or similar) has to spend it to create a solid market around BTC. (he can only earn from this).

I totally agree.  Hoarding is a much more "dangerous" issue than "even distribution".  No currency is evenly distributed, but any currency runs into issues when people hoard it.

8% of an economy is an awful lot.  But it's irrelevant.

Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme.  Here's why: the defining features of a Ponzi scheme are these:

• The perpetrator lies.
• There is one central authority running the scheme; who is the one who finally profits at the expense of the "investors".
• No money for the "investment" is ever spent.  The money sits in an account and old investors are paid from the incoming investments of new investors.
• The number of investors must be ever increasing or the whole thing falls apart
• Those left holding the ball at the end of the game are guaranteed to lose

Nobody is lied to about what Bitcoin is, there is no central authority, when you buy Bitcoins you are buying something, there is no requirement for more investors to keep an illusion alive, and there are no guaranteed losers.

Whatever Bitcoin is, it is not a Ponzi scheme.  Can we all please stop throwing around words like they are meaningless confetti?

no currency is in limited number.. if today we would use gold in economy, how do u think we could do if who has the biggest % wont spend it? at least he can sell it at a really high price, so, why use gold if it has this problem? same for BTC.


aaaaaaaaaaaaaand....


authorities hate BTC..

2 problems at once.

Yes, some miners that have been here since the first few months have mined substanial amounts, well into the 100's of thousands.  Most of those same miners have divested since then, and no longer hold such huge amounts.  I can think of only one miner, that I know of, that has likely never sold much of his holdings. 

All currency is in limited quantity.  The only difference is whether that limit is artificially imposed by a central authority, or has a hard limit based on availability, ability to garner, or math (as in Bitcoins).

Bitcoins can grow just like any other currency, even beyond the 21,000,000 coin limit.  You move the decimal place and perform a 10:1 "stock split".  This is how businesses create new stock without having to dilute the current shares.

Sure, in fact they're printable when they need.. (one of the pro-point of Bitcoin is that no one can print at pleasure)


the problem is still there.. someone 500k, others 0.001 BTC... the one who as 500k can manage the market..

Is there some obvious detail that proves the account with 500K btc that got hacked and flash-sold, didn't belong to MtGox?

Someone who had recently hacked into MtGox, stolen user lists etc, might well have noticed such an account. Having already demonstrated hostility to MtGox, and maybe figuring there was no way they could outright steal the 500K btc and get away with it, couldn't they have decided to make MtGox 'shoot themselves in the head' by flash-selling their own bitcoin hoard?

Would certainly explain MtGox's quick response to rollback. They want _their_ money back.

(I'm new here, sorry if that scenario is unworkable due to some detail I'm not aware of.)

i would have expected the user with 500k BTC to have come forward by this point..

Why?

Mt.Gox are returning the money and have probably already communicated with the owner.

Why would you want to tell the world that you are rich?

i want to remember to everybody that at May 2011 there was an address with 300k (and another 100k+) so i dont think he is the same guy who hacked mtgox..

This is a fascinating read from start to finish - I've only been mining (as very small hobby miner) for about 15 months now.

Some errie prophesies not the least of which is Mt Gox has gone belly up more than once...

Wonder where all those BTC are now?

Wow, how did you find this very old thread lol?  ;D

The Jun 2011 incident wasn't that bad, as the loss was *just* 2600 btc. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337#post_toc_21

Nice amount of BTC in one persons wallet. Any clue who is that ?

In 2011 values, low, but anyway other's people bitcoins

Hi I was trying to find out some information on Faucets (how hard/easy they are to create what prog is needed etc) and this was about page seven of nine suggestions - most are long defunct or long empty BTC (*)faucets where the link's still there (and the obligatory banner farms) - a couple of links to faucet programs that have since been quietly removed....

(*) one faucet claimed to be paying out 1 whole BTC at a time, but a check of the blocks showed it never had even one whole one.