Bitcoin Forum

...will be launched on the 1st of August. Are you happy with this?

It's more that two copies of the same bitcoin will be created (one with segiwt and one without). While it is needed to activate segwit, there should be a way created that completely destroyes the other bitcoin. As, now the limit to the number of bitcoin doubles (even though they're both two different currencies with one parent currency that exists in both of them). Is there yet a name for the other currency that will be created yet?

It probably will happen that it will break into two blockchains, as I'm not sure how much hashpower will be behid the non-segwit bitcoin but all it takes it one core to be mining the currency (on an incompatable) segwit release and then thre will be the separate currency creasted (much less power and userbase behind it but still a separate chain) - and it doesn't take much to get that second chain running.
And obvously, people trying to maintain the original blockchain and keep that goin gare going to say that is it the real one so you are probably right with that way of differentiating the two currencies (based on the aomount of stuff on this forum on its own of people saying that segwit in bitcoin is an altcoin of the original currency).

Basically I do not know yet what it is bitcoin doubler, but it sounds will very profitable for us. But I wonder how it will work, whether it has a positive or negative impact on bitcoin for the future.

"Bitcoin doubler" is not the best term for this. Maybe use "bitcoin chain-split" instead? It's just more fitting. The terms "bitcoin doubler" are being used for scamming purposes.

Anyway, I don't like bitcoin being split into two, just because of the very possible and probably price crash. But if the hard fork is what we need for bitcoin to improve, then so be it.

Bitcoin doubler here is sarcastic comparison between bitcoin split to be taken on August 1 and ponzi scams running out who promise doubling bitcoins in a day or two.
We can't say August 1 split will be profitable for us or not. No doubt, if you hold your bitcoin with your private keys then after August 1 you will have units of both coins but we can't assume at present whether commutative determined value of both coins after Aug 1 would even equal to present value of bitcoin or not. So all I could say is 'wait and watch with mix feeling';)

still hoping that there would be no split that will happen but sure thing to have a double value in either way I got confused with the title and the OP
but looking to it and understand the real meaning I'm still positive that this won't split bitcoin, lets all wait and see then.

Not sure there will be a split as clean as there being two mirrored coins of the same value. Bitcoin(SW) will probably be worth more than Bitcoin(non-SW) as the non segwit version will have higher tx fees than the regular bitcoin(SW) would.

What are the pros of miners NOT adopting segwit come Aug 1? I'm not sure I understand why they would not want to adopt Segwit as it would speed up transactions significantly.

A Bitcoin doubler, come on m8. The only way it gets doubled is if people (like you, presumably) act impotent and force businesses and people to keep using the chain that was forked away. If every exchange, every service, every business switches to the new chain then nothing would get doubled and we could go on our merry ways without having any issues like the one you're describing.

However we all know that people will be belligerent and we're just going to have to wait for everyone to give up trying to exploit the old chain.

Ever heard the story of ETH and ETC?

Perhaps, you don't know that a "bitcoin doubler" (also called a "bitcoin multiplier") is a scam where a site promises to send you twice the bitcoins that you send to it.


As for the fork, I have no doubts that the UASF fork will quickly wither away. Blocks will take forever to confirm and the value of the coins will drop to 0.

I was surprised that ETC was able to remain viable, but Ethereum is different from Bitcoin in many ways, so I don't expect the same thing to happen with Bitcoin.

And this wa y we will burn bitcoin Value proposition as currency that canot be printed at will and we will break promis that it can be MAX 21m in total.
How you will comercial BTC to friends it ? Bitcoin is good and they will telll ya "F. off  it can be printed like any fiat currency now you have 42m BTC limit."

THis is BS to me.

Other than the fact that if you're the only miner there you get a guarenteed 12.5BTC(nonSW) token each time and if it is worth enough then you can get a good earning from it.
Also, if you an get the other network functioning as well as a duplicate of the coin then the transaction speed increases to doulbe the time because there are then two BITCOIN blocks that can be mined (just one has segwit and one doesn't) - so the speed increases even more.

In addition, there's the thought that any addition of segwit is a production of an altcoin and the other currency is the "traditional" Bitcoin - even though there have been several ammendments to this coin already.

This is exactly the case. Unless the other coin completely sinks (but that is greatly unlikely).
The previous 21m btc limit is completely gone and been replaced by a 42m limit (even though there are differences between the coins and one will be more expensive than the other).

there still one main coin as bitcoin, the loser will turn out to be alt coin like others.
since there are so many alt coin, its wont different if we add one more LOL

That is true, but there's debate as to which the altcoin is?
Is it the current Bitcoin or is it the SegWitted Bitcoin? Large mining compnies have proitibility to not accept segwit, if enough people keep the other coin going and they are at similar rates, they may supply equal power to both coins.

Whichever the altcoin is (probably the non seg witted one) it'll just turn into another altcoin that gets pumped and dumped continuously.

There is a lot of uncertainty about what will happen on the first of August. I think is too hasty the hardfork, what will be called the new currency, and the old?

The idea of two seperate chains of bitcoin is quite silly and might look very fishy for the public. Therefore I hope bitcoin will remain in it's current state (chain wise obviously).

About this I have mixed feelings. I still will wait until everything is clear, because I do not have any feeling what will happen after 1st of August. Hopefully this is not something creepy.

No i don't like it

I am not sure if this will be last fork

It probably won't be the last.
It's the first, but probably not the last. If the block size changes or there are other changes like that, another fork may be required.

The uncertainty of 1st August is really not making me happy  :(
If two coins will exist, hopefully we will get informed for the best practices around here !
Nevertheless, Btc or whatever name it will have after will continue to have potential after 1st August,  just have to stabilize all these fork  post-changes.

What is the best way to prepare for two chains?   If I transfer BTC to a core desktop wallet before 8/1, How do I make sure I can spend them on both chains?   Will there be a different wallet program compatible with the core wallet.dat?

All you have to do before august 1st is ensure that you put the coins somewhere you can have full control of them (as in own the private keys that they are based on).
If Core is too big, I suggest something like Electrum.
There are tutorials from electrum as to how to deal with the forked currency as well.
If you want to guarentee it, you could use a pre-segiwt compatible wallet and a regular wallet and use these to get two different currencies from it.
Although, a better option would just be to change the nodes that each wallet connects to and keep them changed to access the two different coins after the chain split (there should be lists somewhere of what currency each node will support after the split and presumably there will be one or two nodes that are trusted and have both cores on the same IP just coming out of different ports).
The current bitcoin core is compatible with both as the "old" currency is the one that is being used now and the "new" currency must be compatible with the core for this to be successful. 

Let's see what happen, will be interesting

I voted with mixed feelings, because in the first place it will just only coming and we do not know if it's real and if it really happens it seems not good because is there really a bitcoin doubler? It seems fishy because who might give bitcoin doubler in a site?

Well, it's hard to predict the future.
Actually no one can do that.

What we can do now is to secure our bitcoin, and wait for what's to come.
I know a lot of people are afraid of august 1st.
It can't be helped.

Bitcoin doubler isn't such a good word, maybe use a more technical term. It is pretty hard to predict what will happen in the future but this definitely seems possible and the prospect of this happening isn't that unlikely.


Well in preparation for August the first, the one thing you must have access to your private keys so I would definitely recommend a buying a ledger wallet or trezor wallet so you will have access to your private keys, which gives you certainly that you won't lose your bitcoin through a hard fork, which is what segwit is. There is

More like "altcoin airdrop", as all Bitcoin owners will get a new altcoin for free, if it will actually survive the chain split. But as for USD value, it's not unlikely that even combined price of BTC + new altcoin will be below current price for some time. And it's hard to say what would be in an alternative scenario with no fork planned, because current price to some extent was formed by news and plans to improve Bitcoin in the near future.

Doubler program is very risky, because it is gambling, I tried several times to follow doubler program and finally got scam and regret.

Splitting into two chains doesn't mean you're going to double your money. Each coin's price is going to be determined by market forces, and there's more of a chance that the confusion and loss of confidence associated with a split will cause an overall loss of value than it will for both currencies to continue to appreciate.

this will be way worse than the ETH drama split.. just get your FIAT ready and buy the super cheap bitcoins, and wait for 6 months, and bam you are wealthy  ;D

well they would lose on current amount of fee, if bitcoin can proceed more transactions per seconds, this is a reason, another reason is that they don't like the LN that will come with segwit

other miners are against the 2mb hard fork that coem with segwit2x, it's a bit of a mess, with everyone with their our opinion, the consensus mechaninc here is splittng the chain apart

Remember when everyone said that about houses? "Can't lose money buying house." "Houses never drop in value." "Just buy a house and wait for a couple years, then flip it and count your money all the way to the bank."

It worked until it didn't. 2007/2008 was a rude awakening for folks trying to cash in with no work and little common sense. Don't be blind like those people.

Just wait for the start of the crash and buy of there instead (if there even is one).
And yes, there are many attempts people have taken to sayyou should buy certain assets and hold them for as long as possible, most of the time, market predicitions eventually fail at some point.

Fiat-wise, but number of bitcoins will still double.

I really do not understand why do you spread lies and FUD. ATM, SegWit2x support s almost 90% and even more miners ll join in the next few days. So at 95% support, for example, HOW THE FUCK WILL BTC FORK?

You people need to read a bit before you spread FUD on the forum. Unless this is intentional FUD.

I was about to offer you a bet but then recalled that it's unclear if I'll be able to send you bitcoins on the chain you prefer... Do you know what economic majority is and how it differs from the miners who care only about (short-term) profits?

You have not answered my question, if 95% of miners signal SegWit2x, how would fork take place?

There has to be some form of decision making in BTC community, miners have invested millions into their gear, they relay transactions and secure the network. They have a lot to lose if BTC gets destroyed.
Who else should have a decision making rights? An average Joe holding 0.2 BTC???? How would this work?

Its not actually doubler but a dupe or cloning. I have a mixed feelings on this one which i dont really know on what i gonna supposed to do since i do have some bitcoins on my cold wallet if that August 1 event would split those bitcoins then it would be .5 .5 would happen to my bitcoin? Im not really too familiar on this split thats why im somehow excited for this event to come and now we are already seeing bitcoins price is slowly or gradually decreasing overtime which i really dont like to see it that way.

Users will be using the both chains, they have monetary incentive to do that.

Hi

...will be launched on the 1st of August. Are you happy with this?

as you know people every where afraid  for trying something  new but i'm Not wary about that  ........cheer

Since UASF nodes reject blocks not signaling segwit, they will fork on the first block not signaling segwit starting August 1st. If 95% of blocks signal segwit, then 1 out of 20 do not. UASF nodes will fork on August 1 unless there is some rule I am not aware of.

Really. Who s gonna "fuel" the 4% chain? Who s gonna protect it from double spending and forks? Do you even know how blockchain technology works? Do you know anything about longer and shorter chains?

Unless situation changes and miners split on this decision, THERE WILL BE NO SUSTAINABLE FORK. At least no fork which ll exist more then 2 weeks. Not to mention what ll happen to UASF nodes and forked coin once community understand this chain will not survive. It ll get dumped to oblivion.

Yet, people still do not understand that. I guess every education need to get paid. I dont mind you selling BTC, I m just sorry you ll be very, very upset once you understand you sold your coins, fork did not happen and the price skyrocket back.

The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient. – Warren Buffett

SegWit2x support is currently at 87.7% and growing day by day. This is the single almost unanimous support we ve ever had in BTC.

https://coin.dance/blocks

I read about that in Wiki, to my understanding it will look this way:

Users will be sending transactions on the both chains. Weaker one will be mining blocks with longer intervals until difficulty adjustement makes it easier. In the meanwhile the users will be accepting transactions with more than 6 confirmations, for example, 25.

It s very simple, the network does not move without miners. Without miners, there re no confirmed transactions. If there s one chain with 95% of the hashrate and miners, this will be a Bitcoin and this one will retain the price. The other chain will not have sufficient number of miners to protect and move the chain, it will be prone to attacks and forks. Plus it will be clear that s just an alt Bitcoin, which means users will dump that coin big time to oblivion. Nobody ll have an incentive to use it or mine it. Plus it will be a shorter chain.

All in all, it will not survive as a viable BTC competition. That s why all those hoping to see a second Bitcoin are wrong.

Not to mention by SegWit2x lock period, which ll take place next Friday, I expect miner support to go over 95%. Cause the alternative is simply stupid to them.
For us, users, it might even be viable. For miners, it s very, very stupid not to support SegWit2x if everyone else does.

We'll have 4% of the miners.

Well, not really.

Cause miners will not be mining an unprofitable coin.

Why all SHA256 miners mine Bitcoin and not Tigercoin for example? Cause Tigercoin s an alt and it s worth next to nothing. So all miners will switch to the chain which is actually Bitcoin.
What happened with ETH cannot be repeated cause ETH did not have 95% of the miners swinging one side.

All this is just speculation IMHO and those who ll lose re noobs and weakhands panic selling their coins. It will set back the entire crypto community as well since nobody profits from instability but speculators.

It's unknown if one of the chains will become unprofitable.

Ok, let break this myth to pieces again. If you have 10 BTC and you get 10 BTC on alternative BTC2 chain secured by 4% of miners which could fork or get attacked any moment, what would u do with those BTC2 chain coins? You d dump them as soon as possible. What happens with the price when faced with instability, attacks and dumping?

Where is profitability there?

Here is am happy and sad both , because I am.facing many types of the fears  but not terrible .
Here the with news of the launching of segqit2x results into down the price of the btc and made my earnings down .
And also due to fear ,I have just stopped my trading at every exchange , because I am thinking that may be any
Problem may be arise , so I have just stopped to avoid himself from every type of the problems .
But beside these I am happy because Here we get option to choose another better altcoin like the Bitcoin .
Overall we will.have option to have another btc to make earnings .
So total I am not happy and not sad , and hoping that everything should go good without any problem .

Attack success chance is a function of the number of confirmations you wait, this is why I mentioned 25 confirmations upthread. Do you think the other 96% of the miners stop mining just to revert 25 blocks of the weaker chain?

I have voted on "I have mixed feelings". Because I don't know what is the Bitcoin Doubler? If you explain it more that will be very helpful for me to understand.

no doubt bitcoin is a supper currency it can make you rich in a very short time, when you start using bitcoin you will be able to know how to invest and how to start a good business in bitcoin so if you buy some bitcoins and then hold your bitcoin for the long time you will get a good profit but you will have to keep an eagle eye on the pump and dump of the bitcoin market prices.

No question about it. Don't trust the bitcoin doubler system though someone tells me about it in true way or whether they show me its proof. I have bad experience with them. I would better sell myself to earn money. Lols.

that's is the way to invest many way into doubling way and places

Most or all of the bitcoin doubler is a scam, i do not know why some bitcoin users invest on that kind of method evem they know that is a huge possibility to scam their investment. That is why i just keep telling to my friends that they need to avoid that kind of investment.

Look at the link in my personal message and educate yourself a bit.
Otherwise you may lose out from the split.

Go here (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017191)

25 confirmations is going to take a long time with only 4% of the hash power -- 6250 minutes, or 4 days.

Anyway, I don't think any miner will attack the BIP 148 chain. It would be no less costly than attacking Bitcoin (assuming that they are successful and BIP 148 coins become worthless)..

not at all, there are many bitcoin doubler, tripler and even bitcoin 100x multiplier sites which claim to give you double,triple and 100x within 100 hours. But unfortunately, all are fake and these type of programs/website are pathetic attempts to steal your bitcoins.When you visit their website it will appear to you as it is a legit website with so many transactions but the truth is all the transactions are fake.

The difficulty dynamically changes based on the difficulty. It does take quite a few blocks for the difficulty to change but it will eventually change and go much lower. What goes up can come down and if we had stuck to the difficulty that satoshi used to mine his first block, we could gt a block by asics now in a fraction of a second!

1008 blocks in average.

It could be months until the first change occurs. Also, there is a very important detail that might be overlooked. That is that the the difficulty can change by a maximum factor of 4. The difficulty may not immediately adjust to the new hash rate.

Let's look at some scenarios:

The worst case is if the difficulty adjustment happens at the same time as the fork.

New Hash Rate	| Difficulty Behavior
5%	| 40 weeks of 200 minute blocks, 10 weeks of 50 minute blocks, 2.5 weeks of 12.5 minute blocks
25%	| 8 weeks of 40 minute blocks
50%	| 4 weeks of 20 minute blocks

The best case is if the difficulty adjustment happens half way through the difficulty period.

New Hash Rate	| Difficulty Behavior
5%	| 20 weeks of 200 minute blocks, 10 weeks of 50 minute blocks, 2.5 weeks of 12.5 minute blocks
25%	| 4 weeks of 40 minute blocks
50%	| 2 weeks of 20 minute blocks

To release the tension a little:

https://i.imgur.com/rLaU4m5.png

We're not going to get 50%.
Maybe 10%. But, once those blocks have been mined (if they have) then the hashrate will fully adjust.
The majority of blocks are mined under the average also (most between 8 and 9 minutes because there are blocks that take hours to mine - one took an hour and a half around 6 months ago).

If the BIP 148 fork has 10% of the pre-fork hash rate, then each block will take 100 minutes on average to mine. It will be that way for 10 - 20 weeks followed by 5 weeks of 25 minute blocks.

But once that period is over then it'll be back to 10 minutes. (Although I'm not sure how many miners are still using builds that won't support segwit - I think that's everything before 11 isn't it)?

What will happen if, starting from August 1, bitkoin is doubled with the creation of a copy of it, it is impossible to say unambiguously. This new phenomenon in digital currency and how it will affect the practical use of bitcoin is difficult to predict. However, I somehow do not like it. First of all, because of possible confusion. Some people express the idea that the created copy should be destroyed, others allow them to walk on an equal footing and come up with names for them already. The first of August is close. We will see.

Oh split will happent ?Oh I really didnt know that if it will be really happent I really dont know to be happy or not because I dont know do I will get profit from that or lose I will be very happy if I can double my money with that.

1   Bitcoin Bitcoin   $44,405,372,083   $2693.90   16,483,675 BTC   $1,256,530,000   -3.34%
2   Ethereum Ethereum   $20,805,068,656   $221.97   93,730,881 ETH   $963,958,000   2.39%
3   Bitcoin Cash Bitcoin Cash   $10,823,589,011   $656.69   16,482,113 BCH   $231,501,000   130.22%

Told Ya So  :D

If anyone could reliably predict the start of a crash or the bottom of a dip, they'd be rich beyond measure. The fact that you can't is what creates uncertainty in investing. The fact is that the advice proffered is not actually followable, and anyone telling you they can predict such things is a charlatan. Smart people know better than to believe them.

i hope this happens, as bitcoin price is touching the sky.
iam looking for ward for this bitcoin doubler, this might allow us to explore more in btc world

Well, you missed the doubler mate. It happened yesterday and there are now two distinct blockchains with different currencies competing for legitimacy.  May the best currency win, but also, I hope BCH dies a quick and inglorious death. Two currencies that do the same thing with only one slight technical difference (the size of the blocks) is not supported by market fundamentals. This split was orchestrated by a vocal minority, and now I think they will very much try to claim themselves as the legitimate chain, and any fight for legitimacy has the potential to get nasty.

Didn't BCH already flop? I've read here somewhere earlier that the mining stopped at the 17th block or have I misread it? However, it seems like a simple pump and dump, something to made money in the first few weeks of august.

No, I think it's still being mined.
It's only really ViaBTC and Bitmain that are mining it though currently (it might get more people but for now it's just them).

It's more that two copies of the same bitcoin will be created (one with segiwt and one without). While it is needed to activate segwit, there should be a way created that completely destroyes the other bitcoin.It probably will happen that it will break into two blockchains, as I'm not sure how much hashpower will be behid the non-segwit bitcoin but all it takes it one core to be mining the currency (on an incompatable) segwit release and then thre will be the separate currency creasted (much less power and userbase behind it but still a separate chain) - and it doesn't take much to get that second chain running.