Bitcoin Forum

I'm sad, I don't see bitcoiners anymore. Everybody only talk about money, money and money.
When I begun in 2012, I remember a lot of people talking about to figh against banksters and centralizations. Satoshi were our god and their ideals our bible but now Money is the god and I'm the atheist in the middle of this church full of newbies, haters, dumbs and greeddy's people.

Where are them?

These were dumb people not understanding that bitcoin was a governmental project to implement virtual currency to the world.
Now bitcoin is going to be accepted everywhere soon which will be the start of virtual currency which bankers waited for decades.

You have been used

Sometimes I think that theory, but at least we were trying to fight the banks and talking about it. Bitcoin had could be something good, but we forgot that we are f*cking humans.

Firstly what is so bad about the banks. I know how they are pretty annoying at times but they are the backbone of our markets and we wouldn't be so developed without them. How do you think you would be able to bug a house if mortgages didn't exist since you killed the banks? In 2012 not that much people knew about bitcoin, so what would they do of banks closed, would you force them to use bitcoin?

You definitely brought a good subject to discuss. I personally believe that the real bitcoiners are the early adopters, It's not that the other people aren't but early adopters invested in bitcoin even though the price was so low and there was zero indications that the price will actually reach +2000$ in the future, they trusted bitcoin and they liked it for offering what banks couldn't.

Your right that people just care about the money side only but what I dont understand is what gives bitcoin that money value is it being decentralised.

If its not decentralised then its not worth any high money value correct?

If bitcoin becomes centralised then someone can increase the inflation supply from 21million to 21billion meaning at this point everyone in the world including babies can have 7 bitcoins each at least. How much will each bitcoin be worth then? 7cents?

So if bitcoin value becomes 7 pennies will people still care about money side or true decentralisation? When bitcoin reaches that low stage it is too late and impossible to change centralisation status back to original decentralised status.

We people generally have an institutionalized relationship with the banking system. Bitcoin wasn't meant to take the banking system head on, but to give a choice to the people who want to get out of this institutionalized state and that is happening. The more people use it, the banking system gets more weaker.

Bitcoiners have the choice and they are making use of it to take out the banks in an indirect way.

Some bitcoiners are a bit busy helping the banksters get hold of a centralized bitcoin network.

Thats a smart question and if you would read a bit about real economical news you would know that the plan is to bind the virtual currency with a real and limited asset so the creation of new coins will be limited

They are around. You shouldn't confuse altcoiners with Bitcoiners, even though these terms are not mutually exclusive. A huge influx of people who flock to altcoins do not care about any fundamental values, especially not those set by Satoshi. They have come here solely because of their own greed. They are often very uneducated as well and tend to shill the foulest shitcoins.

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Another example of greedy Bitcoiners, regardless of the date that they've joined the ecosystem, are those (see XT, Classic, BU, Bitcoin ABC) that want to centralize the network for a bit more throughput.

 You are looking at the wrong place. Then again, this forum has become a shithole of spammers and greedy inferior creatures.

No. That would only be possible if it were fully centralized (which will never happen) and even then, that's the equivalent of stabbing yourself in the foot.

The real bitcoiners have already given up, since they have released how futile it would be for them to destroy the banks. The first investors would include people who probably just liked the idea of decentralization and invested when bitcoin was only a couple of cents and had no chance of going anywhere. We can't live without centralisation since people have been living on that idea for thousands of years.

Real and limited asset such as? Gold? Bitcoin is being backed by gold soon?

People need to realize banks are not the enemy per se. What I mean is I know some people who work in bank and they are very nice people who are not evil. At least I don't see them as evil. Every business wants to make a profit. Since it deals with money, banks can get a bad rap if they are ruthless. The problem is unchecked and unregulated profit seeking is what is killing our society.

Banks do bad things because they know they can get away with it. Any business would in my opinion. We need to control that through government oversight and regulations.

Ok you say bitcoin is not fully 100% centralised. So what % is bitcoin centralised status now? 10%, 20% 30%? As long its below 50% then i believe it's safer.  

Governments have showed they can't be trusted for thousands of years so its best to hand the power back to the people that is decentralisation instead of government centralisation.

Maybe you are right :(
I can't believe that there are people here commenting that banks are good  :o They have to read more about the fiduciary system based on inflation-deflation to steal us. Probably, they don't know what "fiduciary" means.
I give up on bitcointalk  :-\

It really isn't that simple if you choose to embrace all aspects of Bitcoin.  If you abide by the ethos of open source and permissionlessness, you can't then begrudge other developers creating their own clients, even when you disagree with what their goal might be.  There's also the issue of developer centralisation and trustlessness (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1928093.msg19140221#msg19140221), which I've commented on before.  It isn't black and white.  You can't see other clients as a threat to decentralisation and trustlessness if not having an alternative would result in relying on a different kind of centralisation and trust.  Developers can't be all-powerful and you can't force everyone to run the code you prefer.  That's not Bitcoin.

the original idea of "bank" is not that bad ...


Since I'm big fan of Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell, channel

"Banks are a riddle wrapped up in an enigma. We all kind of know that they do stuff with money we don’t understand, while the last crisis left a feeling of deep mistrust and confusion. We try to shed a bit of light onto the banking system. Why were banks invented, why did they cause the last crisis and are there alternatives?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTTGALaRZoc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTTGALaRZoc)

They are no longer on this forum. Why would they come here anymore? We now have Hero and Legendary accounts posting shit and asking newb questions. Any topic of substance quickly gets pushed to the second page and disappears.

Anyway I don't believe that most of those early anti-banksters actually wanted to drive banks completely out of business. I felt that many were just happy with Bitcoin because it allowed them to accumulate wealth outside of the banking system.

yes it is true that bitcoin took the place of the virtual currency in a short time but the one thing that is really bad about the banks is how they are annoying and wasting the time of the people who want to withdraw some money they waste a lot of time on paper formalities. People were not pretty aware of the bitcoin at the start but now they know all about bitcoin and they prefer bitcoin than banks.

A poll.

How many people care about fighting the system we live in.

How many people care about getting rich.

Answer - there's a few more of the latter.

The fundamental of bitcoin is it's sovereignty against other money and political systems. These that put a priority on maintaining a sovereign bitcoin above how quick and cheap you can buy your coffee with transaction are real bitcoiners. These want want to jeopardize everything in order to turn bitcoin into paypal as soon as possible are the ones that are against bitcoin and aren't real bitcoiners (Roger Ver and co)

Great question. Now the answer is something along the lines of realizing why it wouldn't work, being drowned out by the majority of the community on the hunt for money (which is what most people are on the lookout for these days, and it makes sense as to why), or simply not voicing those comments online and instead doing more clandestine things that are outside of the view of everyone else.

But you're entirely right when you say the community is full of newbies and haters who see to not understand Bitcoin at all, but "dumbs" and "greeddy's" are less common than you likely believe they are.

We are here even though we don't have many bitcoin, we're opposing all kind of centralization attempts and banksters obviously. They're all against the nature of bitcoin like one said.

Then Bitcoin was more underground thing and people with fresh ideas joined it. Now lot of time passed, banks aren't beaten and many real bitcoiners left bitcoin world.
Now if we want to have user-friendly Bitcoin - spend our bitcoins at many places, easily exchange it, use various online services with bitcoin payments, then we have to forget about real bitcoin spirit. No anonymity, no full decentralization, no fight against banks.

No one is fight, it just free market.

Agree about miners being used.  I wouldn't call early bitcoiners dumb.  I believe they had the right intent, to be decentralized and free.  Yet with all things, when there is a ton of $ to be made, expect control.  Before, people from all over were mining their little share of BTC, now we have corps and data centers doing mining, selling rigs, controlling pools, pricing, news, etc.

Bitcoin use to be free, now kicking and screaming down the path to centralization.  

Edit to add:  Lauda posted this image in another thread.  I believe it's an actual representation of what is happening to BTC


And I would include government puppet masters behind BitMain

core added CLTV +CSV  (2-5 day fund maturity+chargeback)
core adding LN (joint account where counterparties are needed)
core took away fee controls and screams "just pay more"
core added segwit and said nodes dont need to independently validate and can happily accept filtered/stripped(no witness)
core bypassed real consensus of the decentralised network sing backdoor exploits and admit they will continue adding more features this way

so get your facts right billy.

^ says the guy that manages some of the main sig spammer campaigns....
if he wants to look at the cause. he should get a mirror

its people like billy and lauda that would happily kiss ass of the corporate devs because they hope if they show loyalty to the corporations that the corps would pay them one day.

people like lauda and billy. are selfish and only think about themselves. lauda would rather take commision for workarounds and exploits than to help fix things. (yep lauda takes a fee for asking people for there wallet.dats, to just hand them their funds back, rather than reporting an issue to devs) billy loves showing off how much he cares about fiat prices.. but neither care about the code, culture or community.

i highly doubt in the towns lauda and billy live in, have even had any bitcoin meetups organised or even tried to get merchants in their town to adopt bitcoin.. lauda and billies main goal is to kiss ass and hope for a payday.

its time they man up and learn bitcoin principles and stop kissing ass

The real enemy is AXA - Blockstream