Bitcoin Forum

Hey there everyone, my name is Veronica Kearney and I am a Co-Founder of The Bank of Bitcoin. We are a group of philanthropists and investors who all believe that Bitcoin is the currency of the future. The Bank of Bitcoin was initially created for our own use, but we have now adapted it for use by the public (we will soon be adding Merchant Services). We believe that offering a convenient, unhackable way to store and access Bitcoins will result in greater public confidence in Bitcoin, and all the benefits that will bring. Our programmers have developed the most (and perhaps only) completely secure Bitcoin service in the world.

The Bank of Bitcoin provides a means to store your Bitcoins that is significantly safer and more convenient that storing them on your computer, or anywhere else.
To learn more, please visit: https://thebankofbitcoin.com

I want to quickly outline some important aspects that differentiates us from other Bitcoin banks in existence (i.e. Flexcoin). Many people don't trust these banks, and unfortunately have reasons not to. We resolve these trust issues by offering the Paper Vault.

Our Paper Vaults vs their "cold storage."
You may have seen other Bitcoin storage services out there that offer "cold storage". Essentially, you are trusting their employees to have access to your Private Key and to store and file your Private Key offline in some manner. You are forced to rely upon their honesty, and even then your Bitcoins are left vulnerable to the simple everyday human error of some stranger. Our Paper Vaults completely solve this problem by offering something more secure, reliable, and private. The Bank of Bitcoin does not have access to or store the Private Key to your Paper Vaults, but instead puts your Private Key in the hands it should be in - yours!

Our Paper Vaults are unhackable.
Even if the server is hacked or shut down, you would still have access to your Bitcoins in your Paper Vault. If you decide to use an online service that does not give you complete control of the Private Keys necessary to access your Bitcoins, there is always the possibility that the site can get hacked or shut down for any number of reasons (even by an unscrupulous site owner or employee) and your Bitcoins would be lost forever. This has happened many times to many Bitcoin services. We even allow you to create extra Bitcoin addresses. Multiple Bitcoin Addresses allow you to give a different Address to each person sending you Bitcoins, making it easier to keep track of who sent them and how many each person sent.

The Bank of Bitcoin provides solutions to Bitcoin's most troubling problems. Our Paper Vault Interface allows you to create and print pairs of Bitcoin Addresses and their associated Private Keys using client-side javascript on your own computer. You store your Paper Vault in any number of safe locations of your choice (your office, a safety deposit box, a personal safe, even under your bed, or all of the above!). You can spend your Bitcoins directly out of your Paper Vault, never transmitting your Private Keys over the Internet or storing them on our server. This means that no one can ever steal your Bitcoins by hacking our site, and because we don't have your Private Keys, even we can't access your Bitcoins! Furthermore, you can use your Paper Vault to spend your Bitcoins from any Internet-connected device, anywhere in the world. The Bank of Bitcoin sets the standard of both convenience and security. Come give us a try- you won't want to leave!

Veronica Kearney
CEO and Co-Founder
The Bank of Bitcoin
https://thebankofbitcoin.com

Not a single bitcoin related website managed to be safe and how is your being different?
I don't give you 1 month before you or anyone who put his bitcoins there get compromised.

With just one post its hard to ascertain your credability

No bank is secure.

Looks VERY VERY fishy  ::)

I understand your concerns. We are just rolling this out, so excuse my lack of presence under this ID on this site. We have been members of this site for quite a while.

The Paper Vault is related to the "Paper Wallet".

This is from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet
"When done properly, paper wallets are one of the safest ways possible to store Bitcoins."

The Bank of Bitcoin has custom-built a "Paper Vault" Interface- which is rooted in the same principles of the "Paper Wallet". The reason why other Bitcoin websites (including Gox, including BitFloor, including Flexcoin) are vulnerable to hacking is because they store your Private Keys on their servers. In fact, these services don't even give you your own Private Keys. They generate your Private Keys on their server side, and never send you or reveal to you your Private Keys. The Bank of Bitcoin allows you to generate your own Private Keys on your side, using client-side javascript. You are responsible for keeping your Private Keys safe, storing them in a safe physical location. For the Paper Vault to be most secure, you should never store your Private Keys on your computer. This is why we are having the problems with Bitcoin security we are having- storing them on computers or on servers.

Questions/concerns are welcome!

But NOT blockchain.info!

You just copied blockchain.info  ::)

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

We understand that when it comes to Bitcoin, there is no trust. I support your criticism and doubt, this is very healthy and what is needed here. That is exactly why the Paper Vault comes in handy. You don't have to trust us, or Gox, or our servers, or anyone else for that matter. We created this for our own investments before realizing how it could be helpful not only to other Bitcoiners, but to the stability and security and confidence in the currency itself.

We are looking to make Bitcoin more secure, all the time. The Paper Vault is the first step in that process.

Our interface is much smoother, convenient, and more accessible than blockchain.info. Blockchain gives you information about the history of your address, and BitAddress allows you to create Paper Wallets. We are actually a hybrid of these, and interface with blockchain.info. Among the conveniences we offer, the Paper Vault Interface means you don't have to access your Bitcoins from the same computer you stored them on. You can spend your Bitcoins from any internet-connected device, as long as you have your Private Key on you. Definitely didn't copy anything from blockchain, that's just a way to describe what's happening when you generate your own Private Keys using javascript. Furthermore, you do not need to run the Bitcoin client. Running Bitcoin software on your own computer or other device typically requires downloading the full Bitcoin "block chain". The block chain is the full history of all Bitcoin transactions which have occured since the inception of Bitcoin. This is currently about 7GB of data and growing quickly. Maintaining a full copy of the block chain requires an ever-increasing allocation of memory, and the constant downloading of new transactions makes it impractical (and essentially impossible for slower Internet connections).

Our solution is to download and store the block chain on our server. We use our memory and bandwith, thus freeing up your resources, making Bitcoin easily accessible to all.

We are trying to operate a service that inspires trust in Bitcoin as a currency, as well as in the service itself. I invite you to use tiny amount of Bitcoins to try it out, to see how it works, and to see that is does indeed work. The purpose of the Paper Vault is to make everyone sleep easy. Learning how to use Bitcoin securely- as well as conveniently- is essential to it's success.  

Hello, Don. Why did you change your name to Veronica?  ???

Why wouldn't a cold wallet be way, way more secure than this?

Greyhawk you wanna try it out?

If I wanted to sink BTC into a bottomless hole, I would rather put some coins into miningunited. At least there's a little bit of entertainment value there wagering when exactly the Ponzi goes BOOM!.

With this... thing.... not so much.

Illimensky: You can't get any more secure than paper, which is exactly what is provided at The Bank of Bitcoin.

I wouldn't be here putting my name on this if this was some sort of scam, though being a skeptic and libertarian myself I understand. I'm not even sure how you could deduce "ponzi" from this, but. Not here to argue, but I will say this: I am not going anywhere, we are not going anywhere. The Bank of Bitcoin is not going anywhere. We are here to set the standard for security and convenience in this crazy world of Bitcoin.

That's basically an invite for everyone to go and try it.

http://www.volacci.com/files/imce-uploads/dont-push-button_0.jpg



Actually, the side looks nice and this may be a services that is needed not for us (still the vast majority) here, but for "Mainstream" users that are overchallenged with properly securing their coins them self.

That the community is by now very skeptic of such services is actually a very healthy thing.

As always, don't give any BTC to such services that you can't afford to loose.

If you are still around in ~1 Year and did not close, get hacked or run with the Deposits you have, then you will have the necessary legitimacy.

I understand completely, Mr. Giannuzzi.

Thanks Akka. We are here to stand the test of time.

Greyhawk, you can find me on Linkedin   ;D

I know. I also totally approve of the direct progression from a 2 month stint as truck driver logistics intern to Bank CEO. It helps with the trustworthyness issues almost as much as the half naked party picture.

The only way to be 100% secure is to keep your keys/backups in a location ONLY YOU know about.

When you say 'putting your name to this' - do you mean proving who you are?

If so, please provide your details so we can verify your claims.

BitcoinBarrel, you are absolutely correct. Storing your Private Key in a secure physical location = greatest security. Akka got it right- "mainstream" users who are more technologically challenged will find the most value here in terms of security- although it's absolutely true that convenience offered is a value to everyone.

The SSL certificate just says the owner is verified. Unfortunately this doesn't mean much as my neighbour could apply for a certificate and I could use it. Her identity would indeed be verified but it wouldn't link that site with me.

I'm not trying to be difficult - just helping you establish your legitimacy :)

Which one. The MLM marketing scheme with Oleander as an anti-aging product? Laffo.

As I understand, this is not a bank but a paper wallet service. Paper wallet is the most best way to keep bitcoins safe.

Inedible- Thanks, I will figure out a way to offer more legitimacy and proof of who I am, and that indeed I exist! Never really had to do that before. You can see I am registered here: http://whois.domaintools.com/thebankofbitcoin.com

Dummm- that is exactly in part what we do- it's a bank in the sense that we help provide you with the most way to store your hard earned Bitcoins - in that sense, we are better than the average bank. We are adding Merchant Services, which will offer the same secured storage options with even greater convenience for online merchants.


On a side note, I'm starting to realise Greyhawk likes to be troll-y. For the record, I have no idea what Orleander is, so either you're inventing things or your frenzied effort to discredit me has led to a dead end. Enough responding to that.

It's not unusual for people participating in MLM sales scams for unproven fraudladen "anti-aging" snake oil to not have the slightest idea what it is they are selling. You might recognize it more under the name 'Nerium'.

I'm doing it to protect the community as much as I am trying to help you establish yourself.

You'll soon see that Greyhawk is actually very kind in comparison to the wolves who will soon be pursuing you for information.

The problem with Bitcoin is it attracts the very best of the worst kinds of fraudsters and the most vocal of the cynics won't give you much room for maneuver.

There's a lot of money to be made for a successful scammer and you've position yourself as a bank so expect to see a lot of people asking for a lot of reassurance.

I would strongly suggest if you're not comfortable handing over a lot of personal information that you might want to rethink whether you're the correct partner (of your associates) to be the face of the organisation.

You're going to come under a great deal of scrutiny and you'll have to put up with a great deal of harassment from the more cynical.

So yep, decide if providing the following would be too much for you to disclose:

1) Physical address of your organisation
2) Verification that you are indeed Veronica Kearney (this might go as far as a short questionnaire answered in video format with display of a redacted photo ID).

These are big asks but you're asking for a lot of trust.


Edited: Grammar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank
For a good example, see the Islamic Bank of Bitcoin. I strongly urge you to change your name, unless you're actually handling the coins yourself this is not a bank.

Regarding security - is it safer to download one client once (Armory), or download the client every day (web)?

No insults dude pls  >:(

Inedible, great advice that I will not take lightly. As this was my idea, I am determined to see it through at least as much as the others involved. The Bank of Bitcoin does has a physical address, but tying up some loose ends on the legal side before I start making that public.

Greyhawk, my work experience is in financial services. I have never sold a product like that in my life.

One of the most telling bits about what we're doing is that we have no control over your Bitcoins in the Private Vault. It's not like other services who have been allegedly "hacked" with nothing more than a "Sorry!" to give. We can't take your money if we wanted to - which I understand we have to prove as much as humanly possible that we don't want to. We'd rather be in business. But, it's up and running and anyone can see for themselves exactly how it works.

Explodicle, there are two types of storage: Active Storage and Paper Vault. Although the Active Storage provides ultimate convenience, we advise keeping as little of your Bitcoins there as possible (or to transfer Bitcoins to Active Storage out of your Paper Vault only when you need to) for the simple fact that those Bitcoins are indeed handled by the Bank, and if the Bank server is hacked (despite our best efforts at security) they could be lost. Active Storage is appropriate for storing smaller amounts of Bitcoins, much as you would typically keep smaller amounts of spending cash in a physical wallet.

More here: https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/storage_types.php

Our website supports the highest level of encryption available and we hope to increase security as word of mouth spreads, and membership increases. We always advise keeping your Bitcoins in the slightly less convenient Paper Vault, for the same reasons that got BitFloor hacked. The trade-off is the time it takes to manually enter your Private Key.

The Bank of Bitcoin keeps the block chain on our server. You never have to download the client, but you can always verify transactions in the blockchain.
"Running Bitcoin software on your own computer or other device typically requires downloading the full Bitcoin "block chain". The block chain is the full history of all Bitcoin transactions which have occured since the inception of Bitcoin. This is currently about 7GB of data and growing quickly. Maintaining a full copy of the block chain requires an ever-increasing allocation of memory, and the constant downloading of new transactions makes it impractical (and essentially impossible for slower Internet connections).

Our solution is to download and store the block chain on our server. We use our memory and bandwith, thus freeing up your resources, making Bitcoin easily accessible to all. " - from  The Bank of Bitcoin website, article "Why You Need Us"

Why do you disallow ' and \ even in passwords? And a 32 char password is also not allowed because it doesn't contain a special char?
No website / server / pc is unhackable. Thats technically not possible...

Just wondering about your password policy and "marketing slogan", maybe i'll give it a try ;)

Regards,
BK

This screams "scam" to me, but hey I could be wrong.

The password rules, to my understanding, were set to thwart hacking attempts- though I will have to check on exactly why those particular characters aren't allowed. It may be a technical or security issue. 

The website, our server, your PC indeed can all be hacked. That is why it is so important to 1) Have access to your Private Keys (something that other Bitcoin services do not provide) and 2) Store those Private Keys in your Paper Vaults (similar to the Paper Wallet, learn more here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet)

When we say "You can't hack paper", it is meant to convey that you are not storing your Private Keys on a PC or on a server. Doing so is exactly how so many have lost their Bitcoins.

I think once more people understand how to safely store their Bitcoins, the less critics will have to say about Bitcoin as a currency. The Bank of Bitcoin will hopefully not only serve you, but serve to enlighten the media and the masses about how Bitcoin ownership should work and to assuage their fears. 

Bitcoin is secure enough.

OpenYourEyes-

I hope to open your eyes in time!  :)

I wasn't expecting trust, but as a skeptic myself I know that is healthy. Keep checking in!

OnlyC- Only if you store your Private Key properly.

Good to be sceptical but even better if you could provide some reasoning for why you think it's a scam.

So what presence have you been using on this site? - would go a long way to proving your credibility.

K.

Apologies oh cranky-one :p

Cranky? You wouldn't like me if I'm cranky.  8)

Haha, they maybe "unhackable" but that doesn't mean they can't be stolen, private keys have to be stored somewhere, and I HOPE they don't have them on their computer in a database, because they are hackable then.

A bit of friendly advise, I wouldn't trust a bank for Bitcoin, this is my personal opinion.
But I think it's a valid argument, I believe Bitcoins are very safe if you store your paper wallets yourself.
Why would you trust another person who claims to keep them 100% safe.
Yet, this person could just run off with your coins, when really there is no need for this.

Let's face it, most people have enough logic to use paper wallets and store them safe, either in your personal safe or in a EVEN more secure location.

Coming from a dude with 12 posts il pass

If you really see what's going on, you'll see there is no scam- just a good idea, and one that can inspire confidence in the Bitcoin fear-mongering skeptics, especially the ones that have no idea from a technical standpoint what they're talking about.

Kruncha- This is actually my first account, but my partners have been registered which is how I knew to post here. For the record, I did not do all of this by myself, but they want to stay behind the scenes for now. It's argued that because it was my idea, I have to be "the face".  :-\ As you can see, it's a joy as expected.

Scab- I'm not really clear on why lots of previous posts equals legitimacy, perhaps that reflects my noob status. And I'm not a dude!

Welsh- Check out the site, that's exactly what we allow you to do. Unlike other Bitcoin services, you and only you store your Private Keys. Most people don't use Bitcoin, let alone know how to use it. The Bank of Bitcoin provides a seamless, user-friendly way to create Paper Wallets and to accept payment, spend Bitcoins, and to transfer to other members out of your Paper Wallet (what we call Paper Vaults). We don't claim to keep them, we don't (and can't)! The idea is that you keep your Private Keys safe. At the same time, you don't have to run Bitcoin software, and creating the Paper Vaults takes seconds. Furthermore, as a Bank Member, you can spend your Bitcoins from any internet-connected device, given you have your Private Key on you. Convenience, security, and control of your Bitcoins. That's the idea.

So what services does this site offer? I can't find any. It seems to just be a client-side wallet with the ability print your private key. Nothing the standard bitcoin client doesn't already do.

Yep, my message was to a earlier post.

It's a Idea with value some others already had. And failed.

However. Please stop calling it "bank". No one wants to associate a bank with decentralised bitcoins.

Prs- Would love to answer that question.

You mentioned the Bitcoin client. Yes, you can download and install the Bitcoin client and do it that way. Here are the disadvantages:

Running Bitcoin software on your own computer or other device typically requires downloading the full Bitcoin "block chain". The block chain is the full history of all Bitcoin transactions which have occured since the inception of Bitcoin. This is currently about 7GB of data and growing quickly. Maintaining a full copy of the block chain requires an ever-increasing allocation of memory, and the constant downloading of new transactions makes it impractical (and essentially impossible for slower Internet connections).
Our solution is to download and store the block chain on our server. We use our memory and bandwith, thus freeing up your resources, making Bitcoin easily accessible to all.

Another major drawback of using Bitcoin is that if you want to spend or transfer Bitcoins to someone else, then you would have to do this from the same computer or device that they were stored on. If they were stored on your computer at home, you would not be able to send them from your computer at work, for example. If they were stored on a laptop or smartphone, then you would have to carry that with you in order to spend them from different places...and the loss, malfunction or hacking of that device would mean the loss of your Bitcoins.
Our solution is to provide an online service which allows you to spend you Bitcoins from any Internet-connected device (desktop, laptop, tablet, smartphone) anywhere in the world. You could receive Bitcoins using your laptop and later send them from your smartphone, for example, using the user-friendly seamless interface that the Bank provides. You simply log on and send the Bitcoins where you want them to go, without transmitting your Private Key over the internet.

An even larger drawback is the issue of security. As mentioned above, if you are running Bitcoin software on your own device and that device malfunctions, is hacked or is simply lost, then your Bitcoins are lost. Also, running the software yourself can expose your IP address to hackers, making yourself a target for their attacks.
The Bank of Bitcoin solution is to move your Private Keys to a form of storage which can't be hacked. If you decide to use an online service that does not give YOU complete control of the Private Keys necessary to access your Bitcoins (Mt. Gox, for example) there is always the possibility that the site can get hacked or shut down for any number of reasons (even by an unscrupulous site owner or employee) and your Bitcoins would be lost. This has actually happened many times to many Bitcoin services.

You can send Bitcoins to other Bank Members instantly and for free, and we are adding Merchant Services so online merchants can easily accept Bitcoin payments. The Bank of Bitcoins aims to provide user-friendly, convenient, and secure Bitcoin access and storage to the masses.

Kohloe, thanks for your input. "Bank" does have meaning outside of government control. I appreciate that you see the value. There are those who have failed- we are ready to demonstrate how we're doing it better.

An interesting idea, but it goes against some of the protections of having a paper wallet in the first place. The paper wallet idea is that the key exists only as a barcode on a piece of paper and has never been exposed to the internet at all. The best way to generate one of these is completely offline on a dumb printer. The best way to use them is as a savings account, and when you do a withdrawal, you pull the entire thing out all at once, transfer the part you want to spend to an active wallet, and put the rest back into a new paper wallet.

With this, your private key is probably seen on the internet at least once when it is created, and if they were unscrupulous they could store it there when that happens. Also, every time you spend money it has exposure to the internet. This is where the unhackable thing falls apart. If someone did get into their systems or into the system you use to scan your private key paper wallet in, then they can spend anything that you don't use from your wallet in that transaction.

So, if it's legitimate, it could be a slightly more secure version of the current online wallets. If not, they could be accumulating private keys until they get enough stored up that it's worth filching them all. The only way to be sure it's the former and not the latter would be offline generation of the paper vaults.

I must admit, I don't like the term 'Bank', and I agree with what kazriko^^ said. but, other than that, you've given reasonable answers for a reasonable idea. Although, I'm the type to sit back and watch for a while, I wish you luck.

K.

No bank is completly safe.. Say someone holds your family hostage i bet youd empty all the accounts in a sec

a) Nothing is Unhackable.
b) This is stupid! the whole concept of bitcoin banks is ridiculous.
c) DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY WANT TO "STORE" YOUR BITCOINS!

Nice idea, time will show if it's really unhackable

I'm always sceptical, well paranoid I should say.

A few things:

The whois information for the domain is private.

The site just has that 'scam' look (Can't explain what I mean by that)

The fact that the OP seems to have used an alter ego to promote the site, here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101459;sa=showPosts), judging from the grammar/wording:
 Paper Vault is always in quotation marks; the hyphenation of certain words, which isn't common, or correct to use; and the fact that account only has one post promoting the site

The 'owner' of the site claims to be this person (woman) on LinkedIn (http://ie.linkedin.com/pub/veronica-kearney/58/2b5/4b6), so if the OP can post a picture of themselves on here holding a note saying "Bank of Bitcoin", I'll shut my mouth: just to make sure they haven't set up a fake profile with a random photo to make it/them seem more legitimate.


As I say, I'm paranoid, so I could be wrong, but I'll be keeping away.

Krazriko and Kruncha- Thanks very much for your understanding and input. Whenever we deal with Private Keys, nothing is sent or seen over the internet. Regarding the generation of your Private Keys, this is done on a page using client-side javascript and is never revealed online or transmitted in any way. Your Private Key is in fact not seen online, or by us. For someone to get into the system you referred to (the client-side webpage where you enter your Private Key), they would have to be hacked into your individual computer and watching what you were typing. When you want to create a transaction, you do enter the Private Key on your computer on the client-side webpage, and when you click submit the Private Key is not submitted- ONLY the transaction string and other public information, like your public Bitcoin Address as well as that of the recipient.

The webpage, including the java-script program, is sent over the internet onto the user's computer- and then, on the user's computer the Private Key is generated. However, if you're paranoid, once you clicked on the "Create Paper Vault" page, you could immediately disconnect your ethernet or wifi. You could even save the page, go offline, load the saved page and generate new keys. There really is no need for that, but if it makes you feel better then I guess it works :)

Furthermore, you don't have to send the whole contents of your Paper Wallet to your Active Wallet when you want to access your Bitcoins. You can choose exactly how much you want to send to the Active Wallet. I hope I addressed that concern, I had to contact one of our programmers to double-check that my reasoning was correct.  

Stefan- Thanks.


Open Your Eyes- that looks like it may have been a friend of one of my partners, heh it wasn't me. Or perhaps a user, to be optimistic. We do have users, but that seems rather strange as the website wasn't complete until the beginning of this month. I'll post a picture, or send it to you in a PM if that's alright.

The whois information lists my name, it is definitely not private. It may have made my mailing address private, but that may be something they do as a policy. Seen here:  http://whois.domaintools.com/thebankofbitcoin.com

Scab- Although it requires some technical understanding, we never have access to the Private Keys in your Paper Vaults. Even if my family was being held hostage as you put it, we couldn't spend your wealth. We are legitimate.

Sure, go ahead.

I've never seen a domain registrar publish only a name and nothing more (even if whois protection is used, they still publish the proxy details), but you may want to change that to add a little more trust.

I fail to see why another entity is required to store Bitcoins.

Isn't one of the main points of Bitcoin decentralization?  If so, why introduce more centralization?

I believe the idea is to make Bitcoin more accessible to the every day user - In the same way windows made PC's accessible (It doesn't mean it's the best, just an easy alternative).

K.

How is storing a wallet on a computer not "accessible to the every day user"?

I know a lot of people who don't grasp the concept (most actually ;D) of wallets/blockchains etc. They do use online banking though, and a comment I hear frequently is "I would love to try Bitcoin, but I'm not IT savvy enough." - I always try to explain they don't need to be, but fail...

I'm not condoning this enterprise, I can't say it's not a scam, I just like the idea of more people getting on board with Bitcoin.

K.

I'd advise you drop the word unhackable from your communication. You can express the fact you have a strong focus on security without using that word. No need to claim the unclaimable, it will just backfire the day you are compromised.

Didn't you hear the Titanic was unsinkable, and look how that turne...Oh, wait.

That people still fall for this shit is pretty funny ;D ;D ;D

May all fools lose their money to 'The Bank of Bitcoin' owners

hmmmmmmmmmm

The OP sent me a picture of herself (with the web address/my name) which matches up with the image of the LinkedIn profile for Veronica Kearney posted above, so that may give some reassurance for some, and hey, there's no such thing as women scammers, right?  :D

I think part of the problem your'e facing is that not enough people understand how the paper wallet works.

The use of the word 'bank' has got people who react before they read to assume you're storing coins.

People are also made more sceptical by the fact that registration details are hidden in the whois info.

Sure, you probably don't want to give out your address but I think the minimum people will want is a physical office address where the philanthropists operate from.

You'll need to endlessly repeat yourself as more users come online tonight.

Take your time. Be patient.

A lot of the success of this venture is dependent on you remaining cool and collected. Your patiences will be tried but that's what you'll have to deal with.

As I mentioned in my previous post. There are 2 things you'll need to do at a minimum to convince 99% of the people here. There'll be 1% that won't believe you until you become part of their family so I wouldn't worry about them.

A poor design always looks a bit 'scammy' - it isn't necessarily so. A slick website can be a scam too. In fact a slick website is one of the better ways to scam because you then have people's confidence from the get-go.

You might accept a photo as proof of identification but there will be around 20% of the people here that will claim it's doctored (Photoshopped). The only way to satisfy these people will be a video which specifically answers one or two questions asked on this forum with today's newspaper and a redacted photo ID otherwise the hardcore will claim a photo of the ID has been photoshopped.

Edited: Clarified some details.

Better hide before people start saying you're an accomplice and demanding your ID too ;D

Also:

a) Photo could have been doctored
b) Photo could have been taken ages ago
c) People have held up signs before without knowing what they mean

Edit: Grammar

Claiming your service to be unhackable and then admitting
and
makes it seem to me that this might not be the best marketing approach.




Also, how is your method of generating public and private keys better than bitaddress.org and others? If you're going to claim that you'll have to be more specific in explaining how it's better than other, very similar services using client-side javascript.

I just lost $700 to eNumbered- don't want to try another small shady character

If they're online, code could be built in to send that key. You'd want someone to be able to verify that this isn't happening. The going offline method would be one way to do it, but there's always the possibility that the page they downloaded had some sort of back door. It would be nice to have some additional assurance, or some independent verification of that javascript program. Also, that still leaves you with the possibility that their system is hacked, and thus that private key would be available to those who hacked it. The same risk that you have with any other bitcoin wallet on their computer. (Though, slightly less as they would have to be hacked before they make the key, and they wouldn't be able to get it afterward unless it was stored in their caches somewhere.)


That's true, you could do it that way, but you're opening yourself up to having the rest of the balance stolen if you don't use the entire balance. That's because every time they use that paper wallet, if the device they use it with is compromised then the private key will have been stolen. The only way to be sure that isn't the case is to dump the remaining funds into a new one that has never touched an online computer. Though, this is getting into the slightly more paranoid aspects of paper wallet security.

Only close-to-unhackable way is to use a OS image that has never been online to generate the wallet, then only use the private key for each wallet once. Then you're only worrying about weaknesses in the wallet generation software and OS that is used, and the security of those pieces of paper. That would take a much more sophisticated hack. (Similar to the one I was discussing above with verifying the javascript program independently)

Though, it does make me wonder. You're getting your 0.0001 fee per wallet generated, how do you enforce that? Do you just charge that per public key added to your system?

edd - You bring up valid points, which I am happy to clarify.  I will address the comment about marketing first.

We are much more concerned about being completely honest about exactly what The Bank of Bitcoin does and how it works, including its security protocols, than in creating some sort of "slick" marketing campaign.  When we say that our "website, our server, your PC indeed can all be hacked," that is just the reality of modern computers.  Of course, while we have done everything in our knowledge and power to foil any hacking attempts to the absolute best of our ability, it is certainy within the realm of possibility.

Because ANY website can ultimately be hacked (off the top of my head I am aware the the site for the White House has been hacked in the past) we developed our Paper Vaults which CANNOT be hacked. This is why we recommend only keeping relatively small amounts of Bitcoins in your Active Storage, with the lion's share in your Paper Vaults.  As I mentioned earlier, in daily life you only keep a relatively small amount of cash in your wallet for "walking around money" and keep most of your savings in a bank, the same goes here...except that Paper Vaults are far more secure than even a government-regulated bank, because even the government could not confiscate bitcoins in a Paper Vault.

As for your last question about our claim of being "the most (and perhaps only) completely secure Bitoin service in the world," I will agree that  bitaddress.org is also completely secure...but somewhat less convenient.  In fact, we have modified the open-source code from bitaddress.org to perform certain Paper Vault functions.  So let me modify my original statement just a bit and say that we are tie for "most secure"...but then we win in terms of convenience!

Bank of Bitcoin is to Unhackable as Titanic was to Unsinkable ....

There is no such thing as un hackable! Why are banks still dealing with millions of fraud cases each month?

And what happens when they torch your vault?!

kazriko - You may realize that you can easily view "Page Source" from most browsers.  This makes it possible for anyone with the html and javascript savvy to simply examine the source code and verify that the Private Keys are never transmitted over the Internet.  Oe could also check the similarities between the page source of our Paper Vault pages and the open-source code available at bitaddress.org and in https://www.strongcoin.com/downloads/offlineTransaction.zip .  We have integrated these open-source tools into our own service in a way that makes them much more convenient use.  You can examine both our code and their code for yourself, if you like.

And yes, I would agree that if the user's computer is hacked or compromised (perhaps in a way which would allow a hacker to see everything the user does or types on his computer) then this would obviously introduce a security flaw.  I would like to point out that such a compromised computer would also be vulnerable in the event of dealing with traditional financial transactions as well.  We cannot guarantee the security of every computer in the world, but I would like to point out the the very security-concerned (maybe paranoid is too strong a word) could use a live-cd operating system for dealing with The Bank of Bitcoin, but that would apply to using any other online Bitcoin service as well.

As for the fee: we do not charge for creating a Paper Vault.  The 0.0001 BTC fee you referred to is for the creation of an additional Auxiliary Bitcoin Address for your Active Storage, not for a Paper Vault.  That fee (and all of our fees) is deducted from your Active Storage, never from Paper Vaults.  (It is inherently impossible to deduct fees from Paper Vaults, in fact.)

Thanks for that. I probably wouldn't be able to spot anything like that myself in the Javascript code as I'm not anything like a cryptography professional. That's a pretty specialized field.

The offline transaction zip seems like it would be good for the hyper security conscious.

I don't think that I would have any uses for the site, but it is interesting. It's basically a hybrid between the pure paper model and things like coinbase.

Lmao! I laughed.

lol your bank is not "unhackable" nothing is. You make yourself sound ignorant saying this.

BTCoder- If you read the preceeding posts closer (I know there are a lot of them lol) or simply visit our site, you will see that it is specifically our Paper Vaults which are unhackable.  No one can hack a piece of paper with addresses and Private Keys tucked away in your sock drawer  :)  

LOL, kidding with this right, this is one of the main selling points and greatest ideas behind BTC, the reason its so popular... Because there are no banks, no middlemen, no fees. Take your imaginary bank and get the f&$$ out of here...

saudibull- We are using the word "Bank" in our name because a bank traditionally provides financial services.  Of course, this is not a traditional bank: instead of money, it holds Bitcoins, and instead of someone else holding them, YOU get to hold them yourself, in a way far more secure than in any traditional bank.  It seems that you and others simply have a negative knee-jerk reaction to the word bank...but it doesn't matter at all what it is called, but what it DOES.  It allows anyone to have sole control over the Private Keys for their unhackable Paper Vault, to never need to download or run any special Bitcoin software, and to be able to spend their Bitcoins from any Internet-enabled device in the world.

For this security and convenience, yes, we charge a very small fee of either .0005 or .0001 BTC depending on the action - and many transactions are free!  Even the Bitcoin peer-to-peer network charges a .0005 BTC fee.

Just like Mt. Gox charges fees for its Bitcoin service...but Mt. Gox never give YOU control of your Private Keys.
Just like Bitfloor (when it was running) charged fees for its service...and never gave you control of your Private Keys.
Just like BTC-e charges for its service...and never gave you control of your Private Keys.
(And the list goes on and on....)

But, unlike them, if we are ever hacked the Bitcoins in your Paper Vault are NOT lost!  Paper Vaults are simply unhackable.

So, if you don't want to use our service, you are free not to.  Those who do, however, will enjoy the convenience and absolute security.  :)

The network fees are optional though. The larger fee you pay, the faster your transaction gets into a block and the less likely it'll get orphaned, but it's certainly not a requirement.

You're absolutely right about that kazriko. The reason why it's done here is because most people are used to instantaneous transactions with their credit and debit cards, and if the masses are going to adopt BTC, they're not going to want to wait days- or weeks (I've heard it could take months without paying a network fee?) for a transaction to sort. A .0005 fee right now sorts everything very quickly. It's a small price for convenience, but if the price of BTC rises we'd adjust the Bank fees to stay as just as low. This is not a "get rich quick" operation. It's much more beneficial to Bitcoin than one may realise at first glance, for the simple fact that it makes Bitcoins accessible and secure for everyone and their Mother. We hope time will shine some light on that.

The Bank of Bitcoin also provides the advantage of being able to pay someone from any internet-connected device, and if the recipient is also a Bank member they will receive the payment instantaneously and for free. The recipient can then quickly send that payment to their Paper Vault, where it can't be hacked or touched by anyone. Thanks for taking the time to understand!

I wonder how you can do false claims and advertising as "World's most secure" service

Even MtGOX which is the biggest BTC process is hacked a few times and there is no such way to actually determine who the world's "most" secure provider is

PS: Maybe you should prepare a more good looking and professional site first ? Looks lame

Shubhank008- The idea here is that Mt. Gox stores your Private Key on their server. We do not. The reason why it's a problem when Gox, or Bitfloor, or BTC-e get hacked is because they store your Private Keys, which is needed to access and spend your Bitcoins. Many have lost their BTCs as a result of this, and it's considered one of the biggest problems with Bitcoin as a currency. We offer you a seamless and secure way to store you're Private Keys in a Paper Vault, much like a Paper Wallet but more convenient. It is the safest way to store your Bitcoins, and indeed is unhackable. It is not a false claim that we offer the most secure way to store your Bitcoins, and we are the only online Bitcoin service to do so. You can learn more about Paper Wallets here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet


Regarding the look of the site, unfortunately I've learned that programmers aren't web designers so that will get better. I always thought Gox was pretty lame looking too  :)

If you are not storing keys on your server or such, how are you going to automate payments then ? Wont even API need the keys ?

Also, tbh I really dont like the name, let alone being professional, it just sounds hectic

i think the name was a bad choice.
we're using bitcoin to get away from the banks aren't we?

Okay, great questions. There are two different types of storage. One is the Paper Vault, where you store your Private Keys yourself. We never see your Private Keys, never have access to them, and your Private Keys are never seen or sent over the internet. It is the safest way to store your BTCs.
 
Then there is Active Storage, which is less secure but more convenient than Paper Vaults. We advise you keep as few BTCs there as needed, and the lionshare in your secure Paper Vault (much like you would typically keep smaller amounts of spending cash in your back pocket, and keep your life savings in a bank). When you want to spend your BTCs out of the Paper Vault, you can either spend them directly out of your Paper Vault (which requires going through the network)- or if you want to transfer BTCs to another Bank member for free and instantly, you can log in, enter your Private Key on the clientside javascript page we provide (so your Private Key is never revealed online, and your BTCs are never made vulnerable- only the transaction string is sent) and you can send the amount you need to your Active Storage for spending. In Active Storage, your Private Keys are kept on our server like Gox does it, which is how you can send to other Members free and instantly. You can always just transfer BTCs into Active Storage when you're going to immediately spend them, significantly decreasing any changes of anyone hacking our server, and therefore gaining access to your BTCs. Each type of storage has it's own benefits and disadvantages, but the tradeoff of storing your BTCs in Paper Vaults is pretty small- it's just the time it takes you enter your Private Key.

Why do I need a website service in order to print out the private keys associated with my bitcoin addresses on a piece of paper? Is there something I am missing here? What is the point of having your site at all? Because you serve a javascript application that can generate private keys for people? Why would I run a javascript application given to me by some server when I can just use the standard bitcoind client? Also, anyone can load their private keys into any wallet on any computer and spend them from there, what does this have to do with your online service? You sound like you are providing all the services that are already available inherently in bitcoin to anyone with a bitcoin client.

We are absolutely using BTCs to get away from government-regulated banks, and we are certainly not a government-regulated bank. We believe the word "bank" has meaning outside of regulated banks. In our case, it is bank in the sense that we deal in financial services; more specifically, we simplify BTC ownership, as well as make it secure. Paper vaults are like a piggy bank, and much like a personal piggy bank someone would have to quite literally break into your house, your safe, wherever you keep your Private Keys and Bitcoin Addresses and steal them that way.

I appreciate your input and questions folks.

TimeofMind, you can absolutely use the standard Bitcoin client. There are problems with that though for a lot of people, although it may not be a problem for you.

One disadvantage of using the Bitcoin client to store your BTCs is that you have to spend them from the same device the client is being run on, or another device that is running the client. The Bank of Bitcoin makes it where you can spend your BTCs from any internet-connected device, anywhere in the world. That device does not need to be running the standard client. You could pick up your friend's iphone and spend your BTCs from there. Being able to pay someone in BTCs from your cell phone is a convenience that not many people have right now (or unfortunately need, but we're hoping to help change that). You could receive BTCs on your cell, and spend them from your work computer without any special software.

Running the client is also a huge drain on memory and bandwidth, which may not be a problem for you but is a problem for many people- and is a barrier in terms of BTC being adopted by the world. Running Bitcoin software on your own computer or other device typically requires downloading the full Bitcoin "block chain". The block chain is the full history of all Bitcoin transactions which have occured since the inception of Bitcoin. This is currently about 7GB of data and growing quickly. Maintaining a full copy of the block chain requires an ever-increasing allocation of memory, and the constant downloading of new transactions makes it impractical (and essentially impossible for people with slower Internet connections).

Our solution is to download and store the block chain on our server. We use our memory and bandwith, thus freeing up your resources, making Bitcoin easily accessible to all. This is in large part an effort to make this a more convenient (and therefore viable) currency. Thanks.

i wanted to lol but some claim makes a good point...

until i saw GODADDY SEAL...

now i can LOL...

Papaminer- Well I hope any good points we make aren't overshadowed by GoDaddy  :)

First of all, the Paper Wallet is hackable. If someone can hack your GoDaddy site, then they can modify the javascript to share keys with the hacker. The average person might skim over the code once, but not every time from every device. This is inherently less secure than downloading the client once per device.

Second, the part which actually makes you a bank - the active storage - is just as hackable as MtGox.

Third, you are government-regulated. You're hosted by GoDaddy and they'll comply with a court order. If you don't want regulations you'd better be certain of your anonymity and should probably move to Tor. But that also makes it much harder for anyone to trust you.

I admire your entrepreneurial spirit.  The risk/reward ratio of bitcoin related businesses is HUGELY positive and with the right idea you could make a fortune, but I'm not sure if a bitcoin bank is that idea.

In this day and age the word "Bank" has almost become a four letter word and the idea of one brings out strong negative emotions in most people that like bitcoin, and a strong negative feeling is not a good first impression for a person to have that you're trying to sell your product/service to. 

The people on this forum are both your target market (bitcoiners) and your greatest critics, so if an idea can pass the "acid-test" of this forums unofficial peer review process then you can put serious money behind your idea with even more confidence.

What is the problem that you are offering a solution to that can't be solved by simply using Armory?

My unqualified, probably not fully educated (as I have only been about this a year or so) opinion:

The word "bank" in any connotation where "anonymous" and "not controlled by any government" are tossed about like candy at the Thanksgiving Parade is probably much more a liability than a help, even with TBoB's lengthy missives on that subject.

Next, it is entirely likely that what you are offering is pretty much the same as having a wallet somewhere for "instant access" (or as close as possible depending on the fees, etc.) and Armory software.

Next the convenience you offer between other "members" may be a bonus point.

I strongly suspect that only time will tell one way or the other, but for now I am a bit more skeptical than ready to jump on the bandwagon.

Explodicle- We are not hosted by GoDaddy. They are our registrar, i.e, where we registered our domain name.  They are also where we purchased our SSL certificate.  I don't think GoDaddy has the capability of actually hosting such a technically demanding site as ours, but I could be wrong.  In any event, they are not our webhost.

As for a Government order, there is no sensitive personal information kept on our server.  All that is needed to register is a valid email address (which are easy enough to create anonymously) and a password.  We don't ask for anyone's name or other personal information. 

The way that our Paper Vaults are designed an operate prevents us from knowing your Paper Vault addresses, or from being able to access your Paper Vaults in any way, because we don't have the Private Keys.

Because there are many other websites which actually DO store your Bitcoins/Private Keys on their server while we encourage our Members to store the majority of their Bitcoins in offline Paper Vaults there is much less incentive to attempt to hack us, compared to other online services.

Also, to address the issue of a hacker trying to modify any of the javascript involved with our Paper Vaults we have created a page with pretty simple instructions for checking the md5 checksum of the source code for our Paper Vault pages.  Essentially, this allows our users to tell if the code for these pages is ever modified in a fairly simple way.  It also allows us to regularly check this as a part of our own daily routine, and take any needed countermeasures should the need arise.  This page is available at
https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/check_for_yourself.php?lang=en (https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/check_for_yourself.php?lang=en).

WBlaylock- You are probably right about the word "bank."  But as I have said earlier in this thread, the term "bank" does have meaning outside of government controlled banks.  And in this case, with regard to our Paper Vaults, they are even more secure, because no government can control your spending of Bitcoins from your Paper Vault, and no government can confiscate your Bitcoins from a Paper Vault.

I don't think a bitcoin bank is really needed.. Isn't a bitcoin bank contrary to what BTC stands for?

Hi Veronica,
The quote above (I have yet to verify it for myself) suggests that you guys may be storing passwords in plaintext. I certainly hope you don't because the kinds of users you're targetting, who are less technologically inclined, will reuse the same password over and over. Since you also store their email address, this leads to them quickly getting their fiat online banking, email account and other accounts compromised if you do get hacked. If you don't know, please ask your developpers. If they say they're storing passwords in plaintext (or using anything other than bcrypt), please refer them to this http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/ (http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/).

A friendly reminder to to anyone considering using the site: Use a different password, it protects you against malicious websites and incompetent ones alike.

this certainly looks interesting

Hmm, so why dont people just keep their own btc on paper instead of giving it to you... lol

+1

BitWulf- This is NOT a bank in the traditional, government-controlled bank.  It is a bank in that it is a way to store Bitcoins, and it would be impossible for even the government to confiscate Bitcoins from a Paper Vault from The Bank of Bitcoin (or for anyone else to steal them for that matter) so in that sense it is even more secure than a traditional bank.

AzureEngineer and saudibull- yes, our Paper Vaults are unhackable.  As I have said before in this thread, it is impossible to hack a piece of paper with Bitcoins Addresses and Private Keys hidden in your sock drawer.  It is specifically these Paper Vaults which are unhackable.

EmperorBob- No we don't store passwords in plaintext.  Our programmers are fanatical about even the possibility of security flaws, and have simply disallowed certain characters which have been associated with security breaches on other websites in the past.  They have told me that in reality allowing these character would probably not be a problem at all...but why take a chance with security?  I was surprised myself some time back when I was sending a test message from our Contact form, and I received the notification that a certain character was not allowed in the subject line.  Again, our programmers just disallowed certain characters that could be used as "escape" characters or could be used to execute or inject "rogue code," even when the possibility of this happening is small to non-existent.

sounds like a good idea, if it isn't a scam..

surfin01- Thanks! Actually, one of the best features, which we haven't talked about much on here, is the ability to send BTC to other Bank members instantly, without needing to wait for any sort of confirmation from the Bitcoin p2p network.  (These are Bitcoins stored in Active Storage, not in Paper Vaults, just for clarification.) We think that this has the potential to really advance Bitcoin commerce in the future.  Imagine going to a store and trying to buy something with Bitcoin, but having to wait at the register for confirmation.  It's just not practical.

We imagine, instead, moving a certain amount of BTC from your Paper Vault to Active Storage before your visit to the store, anticipating the amount you will spend.  Then, at the register you just move BTC from your Active Storage to the store's Bank of Bitcoin Account, instantly! And not only is it instant, but even the small Bitcoin p2p network fee would be eliminated.  As this practice became widespread, not only would it increase the acceptance of Bitcoin as an alternate currency, but we feel it would serve to increase the monetary value of Bitcoins.

Get a well known and respected company to issue a verifiable certificate after auditing your code and security practices.  Then get a well known and respected insurance company to insure the deposits.  If you can do both of those, I'll consider using your "bank".  Until then, you are just another wallet service that is likely to disappear with the funds like so many similar services have done in the past.

Unfortunately people have not gotten the idea of depositing their bit coin with someone else since there is really no way to trace lost bitcoins

"This ship is unsinkable."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/RMS_Titanic_3.jpg/300px-RMS_Titanic_3.jpg

+1!

Bank, Credit, misplaced trust- these are all the opposite of what BitCoin is about.

+1 to everyone else calling BS- pretty sure even your Paper backups can be stolen- it's called a Bank Robbery- happens every day, put enough asset in one place (such as a bank vault), it's going to become pretty tempting to go fetch.

Disperse, displace, distribute and encrypted- security through being a moving target, not by putting it in a vault.

Do your research guys. This just reeks bad scam. In most developed countries, companies cannot legally have the word "bank" in their name because it is a restricted word, and only authorized institutions can put it in their name. There are certain exceptions (such as River Bank Corp etc).

Secondly, I would not trust any company with money that doesn't want to verify customers identity. It's just bad practice.

Learn the regulations in your country, otherwise you're gonna get shutdown BankOfBitCoin. I just hope they will get caught before they manage to run  away with the money of the few or many who trusted them.

TheBankofBitcoin.com - glad you're still persevering :)

Looks like this was mainly a marketing issue - hope it goes well.

"Bank" "Bitcoin"
There is no collocation between these two words.
Do you even know how and why Bitcoin was invented

I think perhaps the word "Bank" in our name is confusing people at the least, and giving them an idea of what we are which is exactly opposite of what we truly are.  When you put Bitcoin in a Paper Vault you are NOT depositing it with us at all - and that's the point.  We are providing an extremely convenient way of anonymously creating offline Bitcoin storage, on paper, which only YOU have control of.  Each time I see a "+1" when someone says "nothing is unhackable" I have to laugh and shake my head, knowing that they simply do not understand what we do, or exactly what a Paper Vault is.   ;)

A Paper Vault is a paper printout containing Bitcoin Addresses and Private Key pairs.  These are not generated on our server, but on the user's own computer, using client-side javascript.  The Private Keys are not transmitted over the Internet, and the Paper Vaults are also never in our possession, but are only printed and kept by the user.  Our claims of "unhackable" only apply to the Paper Vaults themselves: we are only (and very specifically) claiming that a Paper Vault, properly created, cannot be hacked by any known means.  I have stated, a few times already, that there is no way someone can "hack" a piece of paper tucked away in your sock drawer, or wherever else you choose to keep it.  Sure, it can be stolen...but then again someone can steal the computer you run the Bitcoin client on, and let's face it, it's much easier to securely hide away a valuable piece of paper than a valuable computer.

I know this is a rather long thread - 6 pages as I type this - so I know that many of those commenting haven't read every word and thus don't actually understand what we are offering yet.  And that is fine.  We are happy to explain.  :)

Inedible- I forgot to mention it in my last post, but thanks for your kind words.  It seems that you are someone who does "get" what we are doing, and as you are a Sr. Member of this board we are happy about that.  Of course, just because you "get" it does not mean you actually endorse us or even trust us, but it does show that you have taken the time to understand, and we appreciate that!

I've read every post in this thread so far.

I have also coded in javascript, and the Bank of Bitcoin idea sounds credible and solid to me. Not to mention, Veronica's patience and persistence is not the behavior of a scammer.

I can see that a lot of people are skeptical.

Are there any senior members here that care to admit to trying out the Bank of Bitcoin?

Yes, I know this is my first post, but I got to start somewhere...

SOCKPUPPET DETECTED!

I wouldn't mind trying it out if I had Bitcoins. Problem is shortly only the people that have lots of money invested in hardware and ASICS are gonna have substantial amount of Bitcoins as the difficulty goes up and up

Seems like a possible good idea. Anybody have any experience with them yet?

What about  'The Bank of Bitcoin' owners"?

'The BOB Vault'

It wont be long till, "The Bank of Bitcoin" announces that it's shutting down.

Like others have said, labeling it "The World's Most Secure Bitcoin Service" and "Unhackable"
will invite people to hack yous.

Shutting down?
Why?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You can test out this site with even tiny fractions of a bitcoin, which you can buy instead of mine.

Agreed but they are expensive for most of the world.

Ok I've gotta be missing something because that seems irrelevant too. Aren't they equally expensive for everyone? Why does price matter with regard to insignificant test transactions?

It's probably not a good idea to just come out and say "unhackable", kinda puts you on the spot  :-\

this sounds like a great idea, keep the paper in fireproof safe

I am happy to see that now that some people have taken the time to examine and understand what The Bank of Bitcoin actually does and what we offer, we are starting to see some growing positivity here!  I also don't think it hurst that we recently added instructions on our site where we explain how someone can check our Paper Vault security for themselves: https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/check_for_yourself.php?lang=en (https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/check_for_yourself.php?lang=en)

I will say again, just for anyone who may have missed it earlier, that our claims of "unhackable" apply specifically to our Paper Vaults, which are a paper printout of pairs of Bitcoin Addresses and Private Keys; these pairs generated on the user's own computer in such a way that the Private Keys are never transmitted over the Internet, and are printed by the user him- or herself. They are unhackable in the sense that you cannot hack a piece of paper.

And no, we are not going anywhere.  :)

I guess there are suckers born every minute.

Unhackable paper wallets aside...

At worst you're setting up some sort of scam : at best you're duplicating services that everyone already has access to.

There's no added value here and thus no legitimate profit potential.

firefop- We have never said that there are not other ways to accomplish similar things to the services we offer, but none that offer our range of services (with more to come) and integrate them in such a simple, convenient and accessible manner.  We do things differently, and in many ways we do things far better, and we are trying to make Bitcoin accessible to the masses, while preserving the anonymity and security which make Bitcoin what it is - and I think we are succeeding!

Anyone who cares to examine what we have done can see that a lot of really intensive work has gone into creating The Bank of Bitcoin; not exactly the hallmark of a scam.  Also, even if it was true that we were simply duplicating the services of others (which is certainly not what we are doing) your post is sort of like someone going into Burger King and shouting "This place is a scam, because there is a McDonald's down the street!"

Come now, you don't offer a single service that someone couldn't provide for themselves if they just did a little reading or used existing services. My whole point is where is the service level that would ever allow you to make any money off the venture? It simply isn't there. You're offering nothing new or even 'slightly better' than what already exists. This just screams 'long con' to me.

All that aside... you seem to be stuck on trying to provide services that are anathema to the generally accepted goals of bitcoin.

I was thinking about your practice of displaying the hash of the Paper Wallet javascript to prevent the insertion of malicious code. When does the user download this hashing code which hashes the Paper Wallet's javascript? If they download it only once, it's similar to Armory. If they download it along with the Paper Wallet javascript, an attacker could also modify the code which displays the hash. Right?

I see no point in his, want to keep your BTC safe?use blockchain.info, i dont think its ever been hacked and the only time accounts have been stolen are due to phishers and viruses.

Explodicle- There is no "hashing code" to download.  The way it actually works is that the user visits our Paper Vault pages and downloads the source code for these pages according to the instructions at https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/check_for_yourself.php?lang=en (https://thebankofbitcoin.com/docs/check_for_yourself.php?lang=en).  The idea is that if this source remains unchanged then it has not been altered by a hacker, and no malicious code has been injected as you said.

There are many ways to check if this source code remains unchanged.  On the page listed above we provide instructions for doing this by using a online md5 hash generator.  The md5 hashes of the two pages in question should be 9cd21c1046322458a873a986ab3d6e37 and 6cc7f0c7505cec5b6fb2a2b2a16179f0.  I don't know if anyone has actually followed the instructions for checking the source code, but would be interested in their experience and any feedback on the process we have described.

Sounds like unsinkable titanic...

reads this second paragraph. lets it sink in for exactly half a second. searches google for md5cracker.

Actually, yes, yes you are.

r3wt- I don't think you got the point.  The point is not whether or not md5 is able to be "cracked."  The point is to demonstrate that our pages have not been changed.  If you hash a text string with md5, as long as the input text string is the same, the resulting md5 hash will be the same.

You should have given it a full second.   :)

No site is secure.

If man can make it then man can break it.

No bank is secure.

hmmmmmmmmm

banks are like condoms. they work great until they fuck up then you get stuck with the burden.  :D

Especially your problem to get access to my coins, I presume.

Actually with md5, the problem is indeed not to "be cracked", it is for a collision to have been found.

A collision is an event where to different inputs yield the same md5 hash, and the math behind md5 has been sufficiently broken that creating a forged document with the same md5 has as a genuine document is no where near computationally challenging enough anymore. You can have two (or more) different inputs yield the same string. (SSL and code signing certificates which used keys derived with md5 have catastrophically been forged)

It has probably been since 2008 that md5 has been generally know to be unreliable for security applications.

Everyday non-technical users might never check the MD5 at all, or so infrequently that many of them could feasibly lose coins during a website breach.

Newbies would probably have better perspective on this than I do... which is more daunting?
A) Download a program like Armory, check its hash once, and learn how to use it. Must re-check the hash on every new computer.
B) Go to an easy website, but write down an MD5 and check it every time you visit the site.

nnyld, ScaryKubiak, pluh, r3wt (and others) -

I have said before that although we have done literally everything we can think of to make our site as absolutely secure as possible, we know that there is always a possibility of any site being hacked...even the White House's site has been hacked in the past.

The Paper Vaults that The Bank of Bitcoin allows its Members to create CANNOT be hacked.  They are literally just as secure as any paper wallet.  I have stated this so many times, in so many ways, that I am reminded of the scene in "The Shawshank Redemption" where the lead character called the warden "obtuse" for seeming to deliberately misunderstand what he was being told.

Even if our site were hacked, any Bitcoins in your Paper Vault would be absolutely safe.  This is quite unique for an online Bitcoin Service: when other online services are hacked your Private Keys and Bitcoins are gone; with us, it would be an inconvenience, but the Bitcoins and Private Keys in your Paper Vaults would remain safe.

Furthermore, to combat the possibility of the injection of malicious code into the client-side javascript used to manipulate your Paper Vaults we have described a two- or three-minute method to check that our code has not been altered (either by a hacker or otherwise).

It should be obvious that we take security VERY seriously, and have created an online Bitcoin service which handles that security by putting YOUR Private Keys and YOUR Bitcoins in YOUR hands, and yet STILL allowing you to send your Bitcoins from any javascript-enabled Internet-connected device.  This is a very unique, valuable and secure service - and I am proud of what we have accomplished.

One has to spend those 2-3 minutes EVERY TIME they log on. Since you know the IP and time of page loads, and when the next transaction is sent to you from that IP, you can tell who hasn't been checking hashes and how many coins those poor careless souls have in their wallets.

The safest place to keep your coins is in your own qt wallets, back them up - Plain and simple, no need to send your coins off to some "bank", if MTGOX and other exchanges and sites get hacked, this will too, keep your coins in your own wallets -

Pretty much this. You don't have to use the qt wallet, but any of the main wallets: Armory, Electrum, Multibit, or the Qt client are all good choices. The Android Bitcoin Wallet app is good too (make sure you find the right one, it uses the same backend as Multibit). Even Blockchain.info isn't a bad choice.

This site actually seems like more of a hassel than just running your own client...

"Unhackable" generally translates into "famous last word" even without the exclamation...

BitCoin was created to get away from banks, not to create new, supposedly unhackable shit sites. Srry the language but that's my opinion...

Actually, we have no way of knowing who is or is not checking hashes.  And actually, it takes less than 30 seconds once you get the hang of it.


The SAFEST place to keep your coins is OFFLINE, in paper form, hence our Paper Vaults, which are created and printed using client-side javascript on the user's computer.  The coins in your Paper Vault aren't sent off to our "bank," but remain OFFLINE in your Paper Vault.  The Bitcoins and Private Keys in your Paper Vault are in YOUR hands, NEVER ours.  And that's the point.

Don't be confused or mislead by the term "Bank" in our name...perhaps we should have called ourselves The "UnBank" of Bitcoin...because we are unlike any other Bank, reflecting the unique nature of Bitcoin itself.


Actually, nothing could be further from the truth.  Running your own client only allows you to spend Bitcoins from the same device where you stored them, while The Bank of Bitcoin allows you to spend them from any Internet connected device.  Furthermore, there is no need to drain your own memory, cpu resourses, or bandwidth, or to back up wallets.  Just create your Paper Vault, print as many copies as you like, and store your coins there, in the most secure form of Bitcoin storage possible.


Paper Vaults, like paper wallets, ARE unhackable.  We have never stated that ANY site is unhackable, just that Paper Vaults are.  And no problem about the language.   :)

I really wasn't going to chime in on this thread again. But It's been sitting there taunting me all day.

The ironic thing is: we aren't the ones being obtuse. We'we pointing out legitimate points of weakness and flaws in your concept. We also have no doubt that you "take security VERY seriously" but that doesn't make you any good at securing your site. At best your inept at worst your attempting to pull something.

~

If I were malicious - I might do something exactly like what you've done... including making multiple mdm5 documents on how to 'verify' the authenticity of the paper wallet generation code. Then I'd set my server up to monitor get requests from the same clients. Whenever my software felt someone wasn't being diligent checking - it would then deliver altered code that would deliver a copy of the private key back to my server. Assuming that you could kick the can down the road for awhile with some less experienced users claiming your legitimacy... in a few years you'd have access to hundreds or thousands of cold storage wallets that you could then clean out for massive profit. Total time invest - six to eight hours it would take to put together your website and 2 years of hosting fees.

~

One reason nobody is taking you seriously is because you aren't offering anything (except a bit more hassle) to do the same things we can do already using established software and services. There's no way for you ever make much of a profit offering 'clones' of other services. This means that you must have some other plan for how to make a bitcoin off the venture... otherwise why bother.

Another reason is when security issues and flaws in concept are pointed out you imply we're being obtuse... if you were legitimate you'd be trying to get our input on how to fix these issues instead.

~

When it comes to the bitcoin world there are a couple hundred thousand geeks and fiscal wizards (at least) who're more than willing to help you develop a good product or service for the fun of it... or simply for whatever it might add to the growth of bitcoin. My advice to you would be to start listening to us about the issues with your 'service'.

Mad claims...

That's basically an invite for everyone to go and try it

I'm willing to give BoB the benefit of the doubt and assume they really do believe that simply combining two existing services, a hot wallet and the ability to print paper wallets, is a viable business model. My problem is with the way they choose to promote it. It seems that they are attempting to conflate the two separate services in the mind of customers, giving the impression that their hot wallet service is unhackable.

Now I'm sure Veronica will reiterate that they aren't making the claim that their server is unhackable. However, by continuing to define themselves as "The World's Most Secure Bitcoin Service" without clarifying that this does not in fact refer to themselves but to paper wallets in general, the BoB will continue to be criticized.

All you've done is glue a banana to a shoe and called it "the world's most edible footwear"; it's deceptive and condescending and you should stop.

So much this. So much time has been spent on their paper wallets, that there hasn't been much discussion of the features they offer with their active wallets, and how those should be viewed with all of the caution a normal online wallet warrants (quite a bit).

QFT. I'm sick of arguing about this, so in case anyone needs it spelled out for them:

BoB knows when Alice loads the page.
BoB knows when Alice broadcasts a transaction.
If the difference between these times is <30s, BoB knows Alice didn't check the hash.
If Alice hasn't checked a hash during the last 10 logons, she probably won't do it on the 11th logon.

 ;D ;D looks interesting

Or rushed in without fully researching the marketplace. Quite possible considering the complexity.

You do realize that calling yourself a bank and taking peoples money holds certain legal ramifications, right?

Nothing is unhackable

Sure I'd accept that answer. At this point the only way for them to begin redeeming the reputation of the site is to retract the e-wallet features... while consulting with us on how to actually construct a viable business model.

If they had done any sort of market research (like talking to one of their IT guys for 10 mins =P) they would have been told that best way to build a name would have been to provide the paper wallet download alone... then take advice on making it as secure as possible... then in a 6 months or a year... deploy whatever the rest of their services would be. At least that way you've got some name recognition. So the average user can think 'oh yah, I remember looking at the paper wallet site... cool they've got a wallet service now... I might try that out.'

My understanding is that using the word "bank" in your name can lead to regulatory problems down the road.  

I signed up to give it a try.

If I have to store 'coins with someone else - it hardly counts as the most "completey secure Bitcoin service in the World".

I think claiming to be 'unhackable' could come back to bite them.

It already has - it's been mentioned every 10 posts or so.

We dont need a bank.

Thanks to Bitcoin I learn to be my own bank.

With Bitaddress.org and Electrum.org

I only will an ewallet to have liquidity in my phone, like blockchain.info

Also, Green Address to pay quickly. But there will not be all of my coins.

I want to say that I really do appreciate all those with well thought out constructive criticism, as opposed to those who glibly remark "nothing is unhackable" or similar comments.  I will say, however, that every comment (even those which might be considered to be "glib negativity") does offer a learning opportunity, and I do try to make the best of these opportunities.  So, I thank you all for your comments, whether I regard them as positive or negative.

I have stated over and over that it is our Paper Vaults, created using client-side javascript on the user's own computer, which are unhackable.  When these Paper Vaults are properly created and printed they are unhackable.  I am not saying that our site itself is unhackable, because it would be absurd to make that claim about any site, whether it is ours or more long-established sites such as bitaddress.org, or whatever. 

The reason for having our "Active Storage" at all rather than simply doing everything through our Paper Vaults is because we do have plans for additional services to be rolled out in the future, and Paper Vaults simply do not provide the necessary flexibility.  For example, we have already announced that we are planning to introduce Merchant Services very soon.  This will allow us to generate a unique Bitcoin Address each time a purchase is made from a vendor, rather than simply sending Bitcoins to the same Paper Vault address each time a purchase is made.  The purpose for this is, among other things, to provide a greater level of anonymity and privacy regarding a vendor's Bitcoin income.

We also have certain other services planned further out which would also rely upon the Active Accounts.  For now, however, I would like to mention that whenever someone Active Storage balance goes above a certain threshold we send an email to the Account Holder informing him or her that moving Bitcoins into a Paper Vault would be the safest way of storing large quantities of Bitcoins, and that only Bitcoins intended to be spent relatively soon should be kept in Active Storage.  This is done for two reasons: 1) to avoid large losses to our user's in the event that our site were hacked, and 2) to make our site a low-value target to hackers - in other words go hack someone like MtGox (or whomever) who actually HAS large quantities of Bitcoins on their server.

Also, about the word "Bank" in our web-service: No we are not a legally registered bank, but then again we are NOT storing or dealing in legal currency, but in Bitcoins.  This is an important legal distinction.  Also, "The Bank of Bitcoin" is not the name of a legal corporate entity, but the name of a website/web-service; another important legal distinction.

I would further like to state that it would be next to impossible to actually tell who is or is not checking the md5 hash of our Paper Wallet pages.  Let's not forget that typing in a long Bitcoin Address and Private Key can take some time, which can vary greatly from person to person, or even vary greatly for the same person on different visits.  It is far quicker to check the md5 hash than to type in the Address and Private Key, and because of this it is impossible to know when someone is checking the md5 hash.  I do understand and appreciate the high level of caution regarding Bitcoin security and am open to any workable suggestions that would fit into our business model.

Again, thanks for all your comments.

A friend of mine operated a mortgage business with the word "bank" in the name and it cost him a lot of money in legal expenses and he eventually had to change the name. You might want to check into this before continuing with the current name. Best of luck with your business and I wish you the greatest of successes.

LOL bitcoin was made not to use bank , you really think that anybody will store their precious bitcoins in ur "bank"

Recomendation:

Fire whoever is doing the design and photoshop banners... terrible.

I am wondering why we would not simply print out our wallet contents on paper and look upon that as our security? Yes, we would also need encryption against hacking.

You must have missed all the people who did exactly that last year, and (unsurprisingly) had their bitcoins stolen in obvious Ponzi scams. There is no shortage of suckers around here, unfortunately.

why need bank for bitcoin?

Unhackable you say??

http://blogs.ubc.ca/anastasiakosteckyj/files/2012/10/titanic.jpg

"unhackable"

Thats like a beacon calling for all hackers to try it out and see what you can break.

Its a game of Cat & Mouse, and always will be.

Me thinks this service is unhackable b/c it simply deposits into an offline wallet. And the backup of those wallets are encrypted with a 1024 bit cipher. Even they can't break through the firewall.

Anyone who is storing their bitcoins at MtGox, CoinBase, CampBX, localbitcoins, or any other "service" that provides "wallet like" functionality while maintaining control of the private keys for themselves is using a "bank like" service whether they realize it or not.  Clearly many have not learned from the "obvious Ponzi scams" of last year, since many people continue to store their bitcoins somewhere that someone else has full access to them.  It would be a bit more understandable if these "accounts" were insured by a major global underwriter and were audited by a trusted third party.

Absolutely.

I feel that the safest is still to store on an USB drive your wallet.

Oh yeah baby!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8005563243_2e93c8767e_z.jpg