Bitcoin Forum

Gold has traditionally been known as a solid alternative to Fiat currency as a store of value for retirement income. After all, gold can't really be hurt by deflation. There are Roth IRAs and there are also IRAs based on the market indices.

The question is, since Bitcoin has matured to the point where it is generally seen as a safe investment, would you be willing to invest your 401k into BTC? (if you don't have one, let's assume you did)

There are a number of companies coming up that are providing not just Bitcoin IRA but also all forms of Cryptocurrencies within an Individual Retirement Account. Seeing as how cryptocurrency is technologically superior to paper money it makes sense as to why one would invest in it for the future. These companies aren't being created for no reason. It may be slightly risky to invest ones entire retirement savings, but it can also bring in beautiful returns while diversifying at the same time.

Thoughts?

https://www.smartbitcoininvestments.com (https://www.smartbitcoininvestments.com)

i think if you are old enough to get your 401k or IRA, you should reconsider investing all your money into bitcoin due to its volatility, you might win or lose, if you win some,you might have a hard time of cashing it in, since most people don't want to miss the chance of an opportunity to earn more, even if they are old, what they will lack is skill on investing,they might be blinded by the fact that their money grew,without them working for it, greed might come into play. but if you are still young and thinking of investing your retirement plan on bitcoin, i would suggest to study first, read everything you can read in this forum for your references, what I think would be the best idea fort this is, if you are still young invest now in bitcoins and fund your retirement, so when time comes and you want to retire, you will still be in a win-win situation since you invested in bitcoin and the price goes up, you might be financially secured and you can use your retirement money for leisure without living below your means. i hope this suggestion would help.

It's definitely unwise to invest all of your capital into Bitcoin. Although Fiat currency isn't as safe as most people may believe, it is still backed by governments all over the world.

The reality is that cryptocurrency is still a fairly new form of money. Only time will tell if Bitcoin, as we know it, holds onto its value and grows. What you said about volatility is important because BTC is not really backed by anything other than trust.

Who knows how secure Bitcoin will be for the next one thousand years? What I can say is that Bitcoin is only just beginning in popularity and scope. There is good reason to believe that if major institutions, investors, and companies are taking advantage of the blockchain technology, then Bitcoin as a currency will most likely be the conduit that drives all of that innovation. Sure it is tough to say, especially with one's retirement savings, but I think if you understand the currency well and have investments in other areas of life (so as not to be heavily investing in BTC) then it makes sense to invest retirement income into Bitcoin.

agree and not agree,
agree,to not invest all of your capital into Bitcoin because if you did this and you don't have any financial back up something terrible will happen soon.
it's just like a gamble if you do this,rich or die ? it's very unwise for trader doing such a thing ( even thought it's unwise[i will do the same,well just 95% from it may be :D],i am sure Bitcoin will always hit a new ATH every year.).
and not agree,for your comment regarding Bitcoin and Fiat.even thought Fiat backed by goverment it doesn't make it more 'Valuable' than Bitcoin.
(i heard a goverment trying to minimalize it'Fiat'[i forgot which country do this] in every transaction to control inflation/devlation and taxes).
even though based on you comment you're highly value Bitcoin,but from that point i can see some of it

Ultimately the idea of whether Bitcoin is a "safe" investment depends entirely on the people of the world, not necessarily a government or financial institution. Its word of mouth vs the monopolization of the printing press and media outlets.

This sort of makes Bitcoin a pioneer in the sense of redefining money for a digital era. Which is exciting. Only those who are brave (and lucky) will have the foresight to invest something so precious as retirement savings into Bitcoin.

I consider my Roth IRA to be my safe form of investment. If you were to invest in Bitcoin I would recommend only doing a small amount. If you are going to be doing a lot of trading while in a low tax bracket it could make sense. You could trade bitcoin on your roth while holding your long term investments in a separate brokerage account. Long term capital gains is 0% if you are on the low end. Meanwhile trading on your roth would be short gains, but those aren't taxed anyway since that is the purpose of a roth. So that would be 0% as well. Basically you get to move money around and pay 0% in taxes. :D

After a couple of years when you enter a higher tax bracket or/and when bitcoin stabilizes you can switch it around and hold more bitcoin in your brokerage and then have some other investment type in your roth. Some ETFs could be good.

I've been wishing I could get my 401k into Bitcoin for years now. At this point, it almost would have been worth it to have quit my job a few years back if it meant moving my retirement accounts into BTC. Oh well. My day job is pretty good, so I won't complain. I can accumulate BTC in other ways. But when I leave this job and roll my 401k somewhere else, it's definitely going to be somewhere where I can hold BTC or a BTC-derivative. Maybe GBTC. Preferably something I can swing trade tax-free, too.

Good discussion point. Same thoughts here. Buy and hold for the upcoming 2 to 5 years and the market will find it's way.  We really need more insights in the market and previous investment results (even though they don't deliver any guarantee for the future). This is quite an interesting website I found:  https://www.coincheckup.com Every single coin can be analysed here based on: the team, the product, advisors, community, the business and the business model and much more.  Check: https://www.coincheckup.com/coins/Bitcoin#analysis To watch Bitcoin Indepth analysis.

Already done. Took a large loan against my 401k to build my mining mini-farm several months ago. No matter what happens now I am good. Crypto is the future. My 401k managed by some firm who are paid no matter if they win or lose is not the way to retirement or financial freedom for me. I will be riding this train for the next 5-10 years which after that, hopefully the train will no longer even be needed!  ;D

It would be great if our employers sent Bitcoins to us instead of cash for our 401ks.

I think a pension paid in Satoshi would be very fun to collect considering its volatility and the climbing price. Imagine a 401k paid with no taxes on top of it thanks to a Roth IRA paid in Bitcoins.

Maybe banks should consider a new form of payment for employees and corporations. That would be sweet!  ;D

It'll be a while for most of us, unfortunately. I actually considered quitting my job just to get my retirement and profit sharing accounts out of mutual funds, commodity funds and cash, and into GBTC. But in the end, the risks weren't quite worth it. I've been better off (I hope) slowly averaging into a long term bitcoin position, some of which I treat as a retirement account.

In general, I always want more investment options in my 401k and would probably put a small percent into BTC.



Interesting way to do it. Risk is definitely there. I wonder if people will start rolling old 401k's into Self Directed IRA (IRA LLC's) and purchasing. I had a couple buddies roll old 401ks into IRA LLC's and purchase property a few years back. Those types of deals were all the rage. I think the IRS even classifies virtual currencies as property so it might not be beyond the already gray area of an IRA LLC.



**Not a tax professional - Terrible money advice in this thread...

We're all mostly like minded people here. But if you ask your neighbors or family or friends if they consider Bitcoin a "safe investment" most will probably say "No!"

We have a long way to go to get to that point. There's really nothing safe about Bitcoin yet. It's initial purpose was to be a currency and there's not a lot of growth in accepting it (from Retailers) as a currency. The prices swing wildly. This fork isn't over...SegWit2x won't be clear until November. And there's hundreds of copycat alternative coins that muttle the perception of Bitcoin.

Would I invest in Bitcoin for retirement purposes? Yes. I do.

Would I expect the people in my circle that barely know what Bitcoin is to think the same way? Absolutely not.

We should start by trying to educate people on what Bitcoin is and why we believe it has value. People will say...oh, it doesn't have intrinsic value...well neither does fiat currency or gold. All three only have value because a group of people agree to assign value to it. Once you get people to understand this you can start to discuss how the lack of a central authority minimizes the opportunity for manipulation and that it's finite money supply will help combat (if not eliminate) deflation of value in the future, etc.

We need to start with the basics and always in comparative terms to fiat and gold...mediums of exchange that we want Bitcoin to be compared to.

I wouldn't put anything other than stocks in an IRA.  Why bother?   You'd basically have
to hand over your private keys to keep crypto in one, and forget about putting metals in
there.  GORK what they'd do with them.  Best to keep your own bitcoin and buy a good safe
for gold & silver.

It's very simple. You contribute pre-tax, and withdraw post-tax (in retirement). That means you can trade assets like GBTC (which have massive potential beyond most stocks) without paying taxes on the gains of each trade. You'll just pay on the net gains once you're in retirement. It's one way to take advantage of BTC growth and volatility without paying so much taxes on the capital gains.

Even with stocks it is risky because of its decline in recent years. You may be better off with an IRA that follows an  index like the S&P 500. Even then, it sort of feels like a bet on the economy and corporations rather than on onesself with Gold or Bitcoin.

Just my opinion, but Gold and Bitcoin are easier to control and liquidate if needed, rather than having to pay attention to how Mr. Market wants to bounce around. It's a lot easier to follow the media movements for Bitcoin than it is for stocks and Fiat currency as a whole. Inflation and the time value of money does have a bottom line impact on retirement and 401k's.

This is also considering the lack of taxes coming from Bitcoin.

You should not gamble with your retirement investments. What you could do, is to shift from savings in a bank, to investment in Bitcoin. The yearly returns from Bitcoin investments have been much better than any other commodity or savings for years now, so you would be stupid to use these traditional savings methods.

You never invest more than what you are willing to lose, the golden rule of Bitcoin investments. ^smile^

A safe way to play indeed. I suggest investing that much amount whose loss is affordable. But in the case of Investing in bitcoins, I will not mind going an extra mile because my guts tell me that it will give a huge profit and I have always believed my intuitions. The prices of bitcoins are going to rise tremendously in near future. But still everyone has his own principles of life.

The volatility of bitcoin is off the charts.  Dumping your retirement accounts into bitcoin would be like taking it to the casino and playing poker.  Sure, you could win big, but you could also lose big.  Find another way to make bitcoin, including converting some of your (disposable) regular income into bitcoin.

i think i don't want to invest all 410k because i will use only half of total money and use the rest of the money to continue my life daily. i will use 410k to buy bitcoin and altcoin and just keeping in my private wallet. maybe i will use half of that amount to trading to grow my bitcoin and altcoin so i can sell it whenever the price is higher.

I certainly wouldn't dump my retirement accounts into bitcoin, per se, but I would love to diversify 10-20% into it. Unfortunately, I don't have that option where my accounts are currently held (through my employer). Just regular mutual funds, bonds, commodity funds, etc. I guess when I leave this job, I'll roll my retirement accounts into something that has access to GBTC. Or maybe we'll have an ETF by then.

That's smart. Spending some of the amount in bitcoins is better than spending all of it if you are an aged person expecting a little life left. But if you are young and have some handsome savings then investing 70% to 80% will give more rewards in future. Whatever your plans are, I wish they will make your remaining life easy.

Investing your retirement income into Bitcoin it’s kind of a “Win or Lose”. The high volatility of Bitcoin makes it to be a really great option for investment when the price is going up, but it’s real a pain in the ass when the price is going down. Think of it, the price for a bitcoin is going up, and assuming you invest the 401k into it, calculate how much profit you will make when the price keeps going up.

If you’re smart enough, what you will do is once you invest and see a great profit like extra 200k on it, you just withdraw your 401k investment, and leave the 200k to keep growing.

I might as well go as far as investing half or three-quarter of mine into Bitcoin, but that depends on the market conditions/how the price is going (as in going up or down). For now, the market is quite okay, so there is no risk involved if you do so. So I will say is a good opportunity, and don’t miss grabbing this great opportunity.

Yes, if our company offered BTC as an option, I would put a significant percentage of my monthly contribution into it.  Because I expect to work for years, I am willing to ride the ups and downs without thinking I am really affecting my retirement money.   I would reallocate some of the current holdings into it as well but not all.

Bitcoin is like a new Gold asset class in a way. I probably wouldn't invest my entire retirement into Bitcoin, but somewhere around 20-40% of my entire portfolio would make sense. The risks may be somewhat high, but if you keep it safe with diversification, the risk for rewards is so much greater.

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies like it are an asset class like no other seen before.

For the present, the market condition is at its peak. Bitcoin is worth 4xxx dollars already. The demand is also increasing rapidly and the speed at which its value is increasing; it will be 7k dollars before New Year. I also suggest him the same. Investing in BTC now can prove to be more profitable than ever.

you are good as long as all your eggs are not in one basket.

Never go all in on anything, especially with your savings.

Spread it wisely and you will end up better in case things go south.

Bitcoin shouldn't be an all or nothing strategy, but rather a calculated risk/investment which merits consideration of around 10-50% of any investment portfolio, depending on who you are results may vary.

A smart investor wouldn't have all his or her eggs in their 401k so it does makes sense to invest into a Bitcoin 401k from a financial diversification investment perspective. Real Estate, Gold, Art and Internet businesses would also make great assets in the event of a financial crisis.  It would make a lot of sense to time the market however for Bitcoin price so if there are any crazy media stories in the near future that would be a good time to buy.

Like mentioned above, only invest what you are willing to lose. My retirement account from my previous employer (from many years ago), has been stagnant and not doing anything interesting. I'd be willing to lose 5-10% of it just to make it interesting and at least have the potential for that 5-10% to grow. We've started offering these services to clients because we believe it's a unique way for people to buy crypto using money that's locked away anyway. Cheers.

Noble Bitcoin
Bitcoin IRA services
https://noblebitcoin.com

In my opinion I would just like to invest the cash I have in my hands and in bank accounts. And the investment will be in my control. I mean that if there is something happened which is not good for the investors so that I would be able to afford the loss of my bitcoin. This will not disturb me. And if somebody invests all his capital into one business that of crypto currency and loos it he will definitely mentally disturbed.

Anybody dealt with any of these 3 bitcoin IRA custodians for their investment? https://goldiraguide.org/top-bitcoin-ethereum-ira-companies/

Wondering about Broad Financial's flat rate model? Is it legit? Is it even legal to go invest through a checkbook control LLC?

Thanks

As part of a diversified account, I would definitely put some of my 401K into Bitcoin. if this were to becomes accessible through a 401K, then that means investments firms will be buying Bitcoin, which means Bitcoin will continue to grow.

I think one should invest into real products or stable btc
If you are sure you wanna take risk, I'll ttry some of those: UnikoinGold or Confideal.

So far I have had experience with Bitcoin IRA and Regal Assets. I would recommend Regal Assets and their Regal Wallet (http://www.regalwallets.com) program. They have a unique cloud + cold storage option for big investors, requiring a minimum of $10,000 investment.

I have heard good things about BitcoinIRA.com (http://www.BitcoinIRA.com) and they are relatively new as a company, but they are located pretty close to where I am here near Burbank, California.

I'd say you can't go wrong with either of these two IRA options if you are looking for a safe cryptocurrency investment for the long haul.

I tried to use BitcoinIRA.com.  I went through all the paperwork, moved all the money from my T.Rowe ROTH IRA to them and got ready to buy Bitcoins.  All of the sudden they said they would not do business with me because I had traded on LocalBitcoins.com and they have a policy of not doing business with anyone they can show has done business with LocalBitcoins.com.

So I got all my money back.

I then went to Broad Financial and they are great.  I am so glad that BitcoinIRA.com turned me down!!!  Broad Financial is a much better deal:

1) The flat fee at Broad Financial is less than the percent fee I would have paid BitcoinIRA
2) At Bitcoin IRA they hold the private keys to the Bitcoins, with Broad Financial I hold the private keys to my Bitcoins and they have nothing to
do with them!
3) At BitcoinIRA you can only buy Bitcoins and a few other cryptos.  With Broad Financial I can hold ANY crypto, gold, silver, stocks, bonds, pretty much anything allowed by the IRS.
4) With BitcoinIRA you must use their one broker to buy the cryptos.  This is the broker that will not do business with anyone who has ever traded on localbitcoins.com.  With Broad Financial you buy the cryptos (or gold or whatever) using checks in the checking account of your IRA which you have access and control over.

There is no question, Broad Financial is the better plan.