Bitcoin Forum

Let me introduce myself. My name is Julia Petrova and I am senior client manager in SEB (bank).

Would like to share some info/idea with you. Please let me know if it is interesting and is it possible to do something with it?

We have a client recently who changed a certain amount of bitcoins to euro, depositing it to his account in SEB. As you probably know, most banks try to follow Anti Money Laundering (AML) and Know Your Client (KYC) politics. Our bank is following either.

So upon depositing euro to bank account client was asked to provide documents. The problem was, he could provide docs about himself, but couldn't provide documents for bitcoins. So he couldn't pass through AML filter.

That's where idea strucked me. Working in bank for many years I know how and where to get some info about transactions. To speak short,  if there were transactions with banks in chain we can get this info. In most cases this will be enough to fullfill AML and KYC.
 
A lot of ICOs are running these days. Coins are selling good, but what then? You have a lot of bitcoins, ethers and so on, from unknown source.
When you convert it to fiat - AML & KYC couldn't be avoided.

The idea of startup is the following:

We can help ICO startups to invsetigate their investors and collect this info for banks. Making for example 1% of confirmed trasactions?

This just simple description to find if this is interesting.

Before serious discussions I would like to protect my idea, probably a lawyer will be needed.

What do you mean by "couldn't provide documents for bitcoins"?

What documents are there to provide about bitcoin?

pedrog

In general You should provide data about previous money owner: you should give copy of contract, copy of bill, in some cases even copy of id.

It is not so important for small amount, in my country not so important if it is less than 10k EUR a month.

If more - you will have to prove that money is legal. And doesn't matter was it fiat money or exchanged from bitcoin

If it wasn't so - Columbia and Afganistan would be largest bitcoin owners

Regulations and Restrictions.
oh boy.

It's impossible for us to know who previous owner of our current coins was, I exchange and grow my bitcoin balance doing trading on exchanges, all I have to show is my trading history and my own addresses where you can see transaction history...

What about miners?

They generated their coins, there was no previous owner...

pedrog

Well...

Looked to your profile and bitcoin address: 1.74106038 BTC received in almost 3 years. (~4200 eur for today). 1/3 is still there.
Not enough even for IRS or whatever it is called in your jurisdiction.


It's impossible for us to know who previous owner of our current coins was
What about miners?
Who cares? This is you who should prove the money is legal. In most jurisdictions. Maybe it is not in some, for a moment... I doubt though.
And, yes, I am talking about 20k and more at once.

I exchange and grow my bitcoin balance doing trading on exchanges
Try to grow to 20k and transfer it to the bank in fiat money. Especially in Europe

I'm not sure there's a market for this.
I've bought my first coins at bitcoin.de, then I made some trading at Poloniex. I know there are some stolen coins out there, there are also some drug dealers on TOR, but most users got their coins in a legit way. There are people working and getting paid with bitcoins. So few people aren't able to explain where they've got their coins.

Essence of KYC and banks. Your money is illegal till proven. Bank money is perfectly safe and legal - there is no need to prove anything.

Government regulation vs Bitcoin

https://i.imgur.com/XWkPzfA.jpg?1

And what if, he can't provide the document for bitcoin? His money will be seized/freezed? Worse decision to deposited into bank.
If he got it from long term holding, then it should be easy to prove it legal money as trading (buy low - sell high) is legal, right?
But in bitcoin or ethereum, if it was collected from many sources/people who invest on ICO, yes it seems impossible to provide data about previous owners.

there is no need to prove anything.
Try to transfer 20k from your bank account to account of your friend. Just for test )

who invest on ICO, yes it seems impossible to provide data about previous owners.
I know how to do that, although this doesn't mean I know it for every transaction, but for at least 30% of transactions I know.

In my opinion it is just a matter of time, when regulations will be strict enough, if not yet.

I am working in the bank for almost 4yrs...AMLa is applicable depending on the amount you are going to transfer..usually Anti Money Laundering Act is an act of criminal to put into the banking system the money they earned through illegal activities so that this cannot be traced or pointed to as illegally acquired..this is usually when the amount is higher than the amount provided by the bank that regulates ones country..it is questionable to transfer such amount if it is higher than 500,000.00..you have to provide necessary documents. KYC Know Your Client Rule this states that it is the responsibility of the bank to determine or ascertain the true identity of its client.. In other words you have to provide necessarty documents as well..like valid ids..proof of billing.,etc.

The purpose of the AML rules is to help detect and report suspicious activity including the predicate offenses to money laundering and terrorist financing, such as securities fraud and market manipulation. Some of the banks goes a bit overboard with this and implement their own rules and regulations to protect their own interest.

They should take all steps necessary to determine the origin of the money and where it is going. So they have to identify both parties and link them to the money. If the government wants information, then they have to share that information with them.

Your financial privacy is not their main concern. ^grrrrrrr^

Good answers. Only a lot less than 500k

It is known that lots of people made a lot of money 'overnight' through BTC. I think the US has some forms that can be filled for capital gains/tax purposes no questions asked. Why wouldn't this be enough in this case too?

This idea contradicts the bitcoin itself. Lot of banks are laundering dirty drugs, politicians, weapons, trafficking money, using offshore for billions. And you want investigate money of a regular person for 2-10USD? It's ridiculous! Moreover now is developing tools those will anonymize bitcoin totally and nobody will be able to trace it.
Good luck!)

I really need my own bank. I still do not know how he will interact with other banks. But all these your rules are behind the times. Have you heard about mammoths?

Ms.Julia, I am interested in your idea concerning those KYC/AML questions. Let's contact personally.