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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: internationalaw on May 15, 2013, 09:38:25 PM



Title: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: internationalaw on May 15, 2013, 09:38:25 PM
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Shownotes for Episode 7 - “Ripple & The Deflationary Business Model ”

Listener Mail: Coldwallets & Hidden Features
Learning Ripple with Chief Cryptographer David Schwartz
The Power of Exchanges and Bitcoins AOL moment
Apple’s doesn’t like competition - Motives, Walled Gardens, and the amazing features of a Deflationary Currency Business Models
The Humble Bundle Breakthrough & the other shoe drops


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: internationalaw on May 16, 2013, 02:37:33 AM
bump


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: smoothie on May 16, 2013, 02:39:32 AM
Love the show keep up the good work.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: ihsotas on May 16, 2013, 02:46:49 AM
Great interview with David about Ripple. Really probing questions compared to what else is out there right now.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: internationalaw on May 16, 2013, 03:07:50 AM
Love the show keep up the good work.

Thank you.  :)


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: internationalaw on May 16, 2013, 03:08:50 AM
Great interview with David about Ripple. Really probing questions compared to what else is out there right now.

It was a great interview, but I still think there is more room for clarity on ripple. Hopefully we will be able to do so in the future.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: ihsotas on May 16, 2013, 03:13:15 AM
Great interview with David about Ripple. Really probing questions compared to what else is out there right now.

It was a great interview, but I still think there is more room for clarity on ripple. Hopefully we will be able to do so in the future.

Yeah, their documentation is the worst I have ever seen from a Series A funded startup. Most of their core wiki pages start with some detail and then quickly verge into empty headers and unpunctuated half-ideas for possible features.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: mindtomatter on May 16, 2013, 03:48:42 AM
Great interview with David about Ripple. Really probing questions compared to what else is out there right now.
Thank you!  I try to ask the obvious questions, it helps when I'm clueless myself and learning as we go.  I think that process of watching someone else learn is really valuable.

Great interview with David about Ripple. Really probing questions compared to what else is out there right now.

It was a great interview, but I still think there is more room for clarity on ripple. Hopefully we will be able to do so in the future.

Absolutely.  David will be back, I need a few weeks to wrap my lemon wedge around the gold brick that is ripple, then I'll have followup questions.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: El Dude on May 16, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
great show , keep it up !


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: waxwing on May 16, 2013, 11:03:16 AM
A couple of comments:
 -The Times of London, not the New York Times. Here's the article:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article2160028.ece

(Can't believe neither of you knew that!)

-Interesting in depth discussion of Ripple. May have missed it, but if not, I'm disappointed you didn't quiz him on why the code is not open source, and whether Ripple's (currently) centralized nature is not a big issue. I'm one of many who think it is. I appreciate that you were trying to go for a more discursive, explain the architecture thing than an adversarial journalism type approach, but that's what a lot of us want to knw.

-Stephanie's voice really is liquid gold .. or should that be liquid Bitcoin :)

-Andreas makes really interesting comments, I loved the way he described the pre-AOL internet. Really makes you think.

Thanks again.





Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: Grafzep on May 16, 2013, 11:14:32 AM
A couple of comments:
 -The Times of London, not the New York Times. Here's the article:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article2160028.ece

(Can't believe neither of you knew that!)




...and in the same item, quoting the newspaper is not to show that the block was created "before that date", but the exact opposite: to show that it was not created before that date. Duh. (i.e. no pre-mining happened)


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: mindtomatter on May 16, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
A couple of comments:
 -The Times of London, not the New York Times. Here's the article:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article2160028.ece

(Can't believe neither of you knew that!)

-Interesting in depth discussion of Ripple. May have missed it, but if not, I'm disappointed you didn't quiz him on why the code is not open source, and whether Ripple's (currently) centralized nature is not a big issue. I'm one of many who think it is. I appreciate that you were trying to go for a more discursive, explain the architecture thing than an adversarial journalism type approach, but that's what a lot of us want to knw.

-Stephanie's voice really is liquid gold .. or should that be liquid Bitcoin :)

-Andreas makes really interesting comments, I loved the way he described the pre-AOL internet. Really makes you think.

Thanks again.

The focus on the interview was me trying to understand the system.  There were several topics we did not have time to get into.  The centralized aspect they hope to remove themselves from and provide essentially a federated, transparent system (opposed to OT's federated, membership system)

Really though I did not understand Ripple and was trying to learn.  I think thats a very good way to help other people learn complicated topics.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: cypherdoc on May 16, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
You mentioned a couple times about destroying private keys, such after redeeming a physical bitcoin.  There is no reason to destroy the keys after transferring the coins out.  If somehow coins were sent to that address again they would be lost.  as long as you move the coins out there is no reason to destroy keys or wallets.

Also, you mentioned the message in the genesis block put there by satoshi.  You can see it here:

http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f (http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f)

Look at the "Coinbase" field.  The message is in there in hex.

Look at block 1 and you can see a much shorter string in the coinbase field.

http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048 (http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048)

take us through exactly how to extract the message.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: cypherdoc on May 16, 2013, 04:27:30 PM
(i.e. no pre-mining happened)

pre-mining?  who does that anymore...?

...oh wait.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: internationalaw on May 16, 2013, 07:54:45 PM
We really appreciate all of your comments pertaining to the show!


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: mindtomatter on May 21, 2013, 02:52:42 AM


You mentioned a couple times about destroying private keys, such after redeeming a physical bitcoin.  There is no reason to destroy the keys after transferring the coins out.  If somehow coins were sent to that address again they would be lost.  as long as you move the coins out there is no reason to destroy keys or wallets.

Also, you mentioned the message in the genesis block put there by satoshi.  You can see it here:

http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f (http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f)

Look at the "Coinbase" field.  The message is in there in hex.

Look at block 1 and you can see a much shorter string in the coinbase field.

http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048 (http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048)

take us through exactly how to extract the message.

I put it together in an article

http://cointext.com/decoding-messages-in-the-bitcoin-blockchain/ (http://cointext.com/decoding-messages-in-the-bitcoin-blockchain/)

Great Article MB!  I didn't realize it required an extra conversion step before you could read the stowaway text.

Cypherdoc: Great to meet you! What did you think of the conference?


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: cypherdoc on May 21, 2013, 04:08:36 AM

Cypherdoc: Great to meet you! What did you think of the conference?

i thought it was great and your meetup was the perfect kickoff.  really enjoyed meeting you, Andreas, and Stephanie.  you're all great ppl and are contributing to Bitcoin in a super way.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: Impaler on May 21, 2013, 06:53:58 AM
WOOOO, DO NOT TELL PEOPLE TO NOT REPORT THEIR EARNINGS TO THE IRS!!! Stephanie Murphy IS FLAT OUT WRONG.  This is a classic example of people with a PhD. being idiots yet thinking they know better.  You guys should not even be repeating her bullshit, though you did at least give Antonopoulos's correction.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: mindtomatter on May 21, 2013, 03:31:53 PM
WOOOO, DO NOT TELL PEOPLE TO NOT REPORT THEIR EARNINGS TO THE IRS!!! Stephanie Murphy IS FLAT OUT WRONG.  This is a classic example of people with a PhD. being idiots yet thinking they know better.  You guys should not even be repeating her bullshit, though you did at least give Antonopoulos's correction.

We flatly told people to report their income.  Stephanie represents a very liberty oriented point of view and while you may disagree with it, it's her right to be wrong and to present that as her perspective.  Both Andreas & I agree with your broad point - It is foolish and shortsighted to view tax evasion as a cost-savings, and to that end we both jump through the hoops to be in compliance.  Stephanie does too, its just a question of what you consider income.

While we were at the conference, after I gave my talk on content monetization (you can find the prepared notes here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GpxDkFNHpBMfl-qqv8neDkIy-Dj18yqg7ph6SZLORbw/edit?usp=sharing) I was approached by a gentleman who explained, quoting chapter and verse how paying taxes at all were unneccesary, and how he was proof after something to do with declaring bankruptcy and collapsing a trust, which somehow enabled him to avoid paying taxes yet not be hassled by the IRS.  I have no idea how that works, and frankly it sounds like a lot of work to me that functionally makes you an enormous target.  I wish I had the luxury of not having to pay taxes, but as a public face for a cryptocurrency it's just not in the cards.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: mindtomatter on May 21, 2013, 08:16:21 PM
Amusingly, I'm a member of the Lifeboat New Monetary Board among others.   They have interesting goals, I participate to provide perspective when helpful.  Honestly I do not think I'm going to have any time to devote to it from here on out though.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: ihsotas on May 22, 2013, 04:52:55 AM
The song is terrific
http://lifeboat.com/song/ (http://lifeboat.com/song/)

Wow. That's one giant pile of paranoid crazy.


Title: Re: Let’s Talk Bitcoin Episode 007 - “Ripple & the Deflationary Business Model”
Post by: mindtomatter on May 22, 2013, 05:26:14 AM
Based on my two weeks or so of membership, it's a resume booster and content amplifier (they have a well indexed blog in the futurist space).  They have over 2,000 advisory members and approach the problem of legitimacy by simply including everyone, which gives them a reason to promote it with their own reputation.

I don't read any of it as malice, it's just a networking tool trying to grow a funding arm.