Bitcoin Forum

This social experiment has ended - here was the goals:

1) teach people that Ripple BTCs are not real BTCs
2) teach people that your BTC.* can be substituted for anything you trust, automatically

There was also mass invasion of ripple.com/forum posters. It's not too hard to figure out who they are. Keep this in mind:

1) I have not profited at all from this.
2) Anyone who lost BTC.* had their BTCs exchanged by other people.
3) Anyone who I sent a BTC to could have redeemed someone else's Bitstamp or whatever IOU.

Please read http://ripplescam.org/ to learn more!

Ripple Adress: rNjuHia9iCwHWsdeBU5yR1Wprrki4xXQ7k

Bitcoin Address:1GeLQtuvwqDuMthhehr8PS6nXDLnHgMNwK

rBtNcaC6Av1pc6WtRiPUdfwhxkopCp3arG

here is my ripple address:

rfcWkSoGFiG3uLuDBRHN8KUaqNJ3Swpyyb

Thank you !

rpYuR5VGGFHY551aUzYGVgQauPRnbyMFqE

Thanks bud, feel free to send 100 ;)

rBpDYPi3SHQaj6UsKHyPPCZsMUSC3MRQeX

raQUSRcya6C2zmnHwgySufXiuustKASZ9y

3 BTC has being sent.

1. You must have funded your account with at least 50 XRP.
2. You must have trusted us with 100 BTC.

If you have matched the requirements, a bitcoin has being sent via Ripple. Thanks!

A) why not use the ripple url for trust, like stamp does  https://ripple.com/client/#/trust?to=rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv&name=TradeFortress&tab=trust

B) what is to stop you cleaning out *other* people's BTC accounts!

Meh TF is not a scammer, apparently you did not read the original thread properly or u have dust stuck in your eyes after seeing 1 BTC

A) Thanks for the tip.

B) I won't defraud/scam you out of any money. Yes, you can convert the BTC I send you to real BTCs. For continued discussion, send me a PM, responses will be deleted from this point.

rGkeBnGGnpeiE6igwixFUsta9yFWXmKGrt

Sent.

rwWsczbKQ7mXCxuxq2GyN8L1BLK64N1aDr

r3yDfpniDkTmBkSncv3hFPEw5Z6kytUzeY

BTCs have being sent if you followed the proper procedures.

rMWK6u7yg85tmNK3c2QVkt3GRTXYuxtfAW

Not sure I did it right the first time, so I've done it again
rDACCWyQyqfuvt9WxCWBZyqgBEMijLseZm

r37ajHk9qvn7HmaiHJrstjxVxQYgrFB5B1

rB4aYCZxtX2gUXEgnqzpgbcXX1c2yqXfSM

rwtZx15UL2RHpgNvmQVeivkVcchV3cHrZf

Total of 11 BC sent. Thank you.

rPoxdM6fs7Aymu459iXmcYCSDTNXH9Zhc

Has already being sent.

rGQ2i99K5JNWtzCkxzXK646rqreMhjWggg

rJef6kS4H2TvDK8J2i1s8Hd2xmSXpGD4EU

rLrxqCc5pr84fyofh3e1G7U6CHbeG9yCPj

Thank you for providing this free legit service :D.

Sent if you have trusted (it is a Ripple limitation that transactions cannot be sent without trust).

rn2v6sH5AiGEacbkJxiA3Y43qdNxiqGnXn

I am in the same situation.

r3BLubWiguGLGw31GUk3X1xa4vFaQVvsHU

rneV4EHoZBNf7gY84HgVo7T2zi8jTTqPbG

rsGz232FzJE1KLeyKtiko1RkmZWyzEywuU

Sorry but no.

Another batch has being sent.

rwbeXEQ72zLUYUFMyeHiQ35L6daJSsBzAY

trusted the address
my address : rE3n4SsVdoB6HPPzzkyieqpLWTNVTVPZdU

I'm game :
rnUCNRAYSAW7UnhsptfY5kQb2F2FBcd9A3

Over 32 BTC has being sent.

r3kpr4uRVnBHxENLdh6mC8t3GDMTCtz9n

I've got the 1BTC, not sure how i use it though. I only have 103xrp so that may be a problem

the same,i'm noob, it shows "You have to be funded before you can grant a trust"

i try to get some xrp

Ok, how do I get that BTC out of Ripple now again?

Can we stick with "is being" or "has been"? :)

Thanks for the RBTC (as I now know them).  Now if only I could find a buyer...

Heh! Received "1 BTC" but can't send it anywhere, not even back, as "Path not found."

Let's try it! :)

rsAfp7jkeMotE4xtxfP766rWqJzgB6qqSq

rK7V1bVcTemRfj94VUB5Z6vzcNP86Ux9Uc

PM'd.

rLwJqZUf8nEfmXnHX76vzMVc5PsbatwvXf

rP515ddFCZAhurzmASsfuJ7s7weWquixCV Sent.


Bitcoin Address:  1ERSMmjxqPyaVtzQENn1hWXJDuBi1oSqBh

rJYijhRLnM1ghAbS8NtJ7oBHSWZG3DMPtj

You need to follow the steps before I can send you the BTC.

rwNYVdbZRPFsEJxtQJsKyiih8UtazGFZhn

Please follow the steps in the original post.

Unfortunately I have the message on my screen: " You have to be funded before you can grant a trust ". And I have no idea how to fix it. :(.

Don't fix it (it's not worth it). See RippleScam.org

r9d5HGhykjuTTE5dCUvXTB8f5mJSwxemBp

rEExaSTXBiWc5Z38ba53uJsDKCaWjQkhd7

Thank youuuuu!

Anyway I want to play a bit with the ripples :). Unfortunately I can not post to exchange threads and can not solve the problem. Is it another way to get some XRP? I looked through the forum and figured out that I should have at least 300-350 XRP to activate account. Am I right?

rGMA5QgTVepE16RiwvnhFhETtR8U2Xrc7n

Thanks!

Sent!

Ripple: rJeuPjq9XBZkuxk51hmXSsFmANy7JbBCRC

BTC: 1R2sWeVhFitB8zVbkrmdSoXzaQRsw6cfh

rJRjWpPuNgUMANtPuxYC968MJGmTzHBubZ

THanks

Sent! Over 52 BTC gave away on Ripple.

Please also read RippleScam.org to learn more.

rLeFkAbidRzQtQYkqNghVhdaDU1rvMKwP6

Not matching requirements sorry, you have to extend trust for anyone to send you payments.

Damn, it says i need 50 xrp to extend trust and i only have 49

rNRLPcVNSa6SKe8hhthPwaU7eH53qpZSKa

rGaE1H6op3GBLLDLH3ryzbvndkZJ5sCj7H

Thanks!  ;D

You must extend trust first.

Can someone send me 1 xrp so i can partake in this experiment?

Thanks in advance

could anyone send me 50 ripples there:

rpkDcgsFcnEhvP2XV8Zo2AvQEdUwk7TYfe

so I can apply for the one bitcoin giveaway ;-), I'd like to test the trust feature too ...

No.. sorry.

TradeFortress what exactly is this? I can't do anything with this coin?

I now have 2 of them! They're useless?

r3HbprFTPJbmERdE65fCMK1g7SonersxNC

sent you 1ripple, Tradefortress please resend to this kind person...

Can you actually get btc out of ripple into your wallet?

I thought you were against ripples.

in need of virtual money to get more virtual money... fun

rrszpBVcdCWJCvEbme8cDbweDkdkgtbfWK

rp12b2w3qKUnYDx2fEfoMqPSNrABWb4gEf







Done :)


Done :)

I can't grant you as a trusted person until I have some ripple - this is a circular problem.  Found it under send by recipient:

rGknJETExscK2JKSee4FetZqU7qRa3trYB

It says I need 300 ripples?  If anyone could be so kind as to send me 300 ripples - let me know if there's something I can help with in return =)

What can I do??  I have knowledge of finance, accounting and tax in the US/Canada - let me know if you need any =)

Thanks!!

If we just created a ripple account, it doesn't let you grant trust until you've already got a balance funded.  So how do you get that initial balance?

My account is

rHKViwSTJUCwUAgN1yVVx2EJEDfuTTaL5C

Now that i have 50 xrp its telling me i need 100 xrp.
What the hell is this?

This is pretty cool.

rHg4mx643yro4QvDqkj2fbAQDdXxPrvF3V

1 BTC recieved, thanks.

When I try to send more than 0.0001 BTC to bitstamp gateway, ripple always complain "no path found",
What's that mean? Am i do something wrong?

rNt9Vh46KsKUnaaLERh4R1n1Wdeu8CQFys Ripple

1K1zXsECYzGb2P11BzzsKg8C9f5iCM4V3r Bitcoin

Funnier and funnier.

I can't extend trust unless I have ripples...

If anyone could send me some, I'll send them back.

rYTtcrA2cAGnSnZSGxqbKYXrafYLfAmpF

rgpW4bvrm3Zrio5FuavssJv69nmABeACW

same here
Please send some XRPs --> rLwJqZUf8nEfmXnHX76vzMVc5PsbatwvXf

- trust extended to your address -

Well, thanks Azrael, this is damn cool!

rLjTKqxdRAiJ6gg7MEc78Vwx6crdVyYZQf

THANKS :D

Sub. Should be funny.

Hello,

r9sHEzLv13UUR2STVEMXBRHeEQ6x7CMgxv

Thanks dude.
I'm not sure if I did it right though, because it says offline. I copy / pasted the direct url.

So let me tell you what happened next :-)
- I have 50 XRP thanks to Azrael.
- I fill the grant trust form for 100 BTC
- The page answers red: you need 50.000000012 XRP to to this. I try to check my balance:  it disconnects me
- I reconnect: it says I only have 49 XRP, and the trust area is blank, saying I need more ripples (it says a hundred would be good...)

So I apologize Azrael, I lost one of the precious XRP you gave me. Maybe can you help a bit more?

Cheers

Could someone send me the needed XRP to do it to r3BLubWiguGLGw31GUk3X1xa4vFaQVvsHU? I will pay back the XRP and a plus 5% of BTC what  provide me tradefortress ;)

This sounds great.

However i don't currently have any ripples! does anybody have any spare they could send me so I can participate in this experiment?

rDYAF2khWQkLRGWKssRdBsv79JPVHTzb8m

I will pay them back :) many thanks. Alex

Very curious as to what you're going to do with this - as you're against Ripple. But hey, I'll participate.
rLSFdBZuJdd3XAwXJBQ8jyxLhd63g2wEYV

That's what I though. I consider ripple to be junk anyways so lets see what this man is doing :D

Done ripple address
rHM5kgt4RvmSXLL3FnYM6KrNb3zGpUqTts

Ripple:  r4VfSDJZNX53TRd6nExAmzsPdX7jbRSHf1
BTC:     1JHvM69LhkJPUFjDipfdtWMxEEpHUmqTLb

Done

r3BLubWiguGLGw31GUk3X1xa4vFaQVvsHU

You can't actually spend these 1BTC, TF has done this to prove a point. He's got a link to a screenshot showing 1 Trillion BTC in Ripple in his signature

LOL, how'd that happen? What can they be used for then?

XRP: rHypNr5bFns3uZqVX5mNCCw4y8NJ2EfK4E
BTC: 13rCXJTPpWZ3pA7ogCiyhdSRbHsh6Qgspb

Trusted.

rL2bt5MwudDdJiAK1ZfiYY9vXZU3JvNkiY



Let's create more debt... :D

can anyone send me one more ripple so I can play? (in fact, 0.1 should be enough...)

it seems that I now have 49.99999, after the client told me I needed 50.00012 to grant trust (I had 50).
I don't know how this 'money' could volatilize like this by doing nothing.

is this a bug?

r3uSNwj49RRerZ7xotMMqjDLMZJrEmghtU

trusted!

Well, i dont even know the difference between a ripple btc and btc  ???

Any time you do anything in Ripple, like sending a transaction or granting a line of trust, you use up a tiny bit of XRP.

ripple address: rPiPNSsJpZE8GtXTncAxRxLZV9XYCJZRwq

Bitcoin address: 19uX2dp1z9cHdna61M8KoiLk1ztcAq46xh

If anyone can send me ripple ... here is the add

r9sHEzLv13UUR2STVEMXBRHeEQ6x7CMgxv

I would be grateful.

somany idiots, oh my god!
awesome strategy against ripple

rwMhhG5EJiajCJQRAEALv4hjScWq5r1MS8

Anyone that does this should be sure that they use an account that does NOT trust any other issuer of BTC (just to be on the cautious side).  Preferably create a throw-away account to do this.

rDd5ZQABD3cE2a9B5k4vMEj7Xe2KWUxe4M

rPeqngZa9ozvMj5uekS8PzZac5eqXeZAzp

rGW5Udkcza2RfXPPF4jyRrrUnXePiSh6u3

rPuVPi8AxZHB1nWq2jxvr8hJU2Zh1mjdeP

thanks

rDd5ZQABD3cE2a9B5k4vMEj7Xe2KWUxe4M

rNMikRdzuUZB5vjvpmTUxF8eGPPkvqyfuu

r3jRFUUSaK3hTqe5spLohALg2V8XxLCExD

rp3uz9jcb8LkMpMvwsfFTaCpkEgAGxNnKj

Sent 50XRP

I dont get it.. Are you realling giving out a BTC?

It just seems unlikely anyone would gve out a 100+$ to a random person

Ripple is the King God of Fractional Reserve Banking!

rBAGTYndAJmFtWRLor3WR5EHDscXfnPAry

rB6McZSn5kMpDyNCfMnWdxdQ713UzRP7rM

- My ripple address -

ok, I understand, but there, it did nothing, since the trust granting was rejected.

again, anyone has 0.1 ripple to spare? rpkDcgsFcnEhvP2XV8Zo2AvQEdUwk7TYfe

Thanks again Azrael, however this does not show up. Did you use rpkDcgsFcnEhvP2XV8Zo2AvQEdUwk7TYfe?

Yes

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1688/semttulofdi.png

Sent a bunch of BTCs.

You my friend have probably succeeded in creating the first lot of counterfeit bitcoins. When the price of bitcoins have gone down the pan I dont think there will be many people thanking you...

ok, and did you do it twice? I got 50 (now 49.999999...) from a first send, no second one.

(edit) however, from your screen capture, i see that you have a different 'sent to' address.
This is not rpkDcgsFcnEhvP2XV8Zo2AvQEdUwk7TYfe

Lol, i cant trade the bitcoins, seems like i only own debt.

ok for me. thinks don't work at all for me for the moment.
and I discovered that in ripple economy 50 == 0
I'm curious to see further details of this, while spending my newbie time.

rpkDcgsFcnEhvP2XV8Zo2AvQEdUwk7TYfe

This is an obvious fraud.. TradeFortress is making promises to pay BTC with this giveaway with no intention to honour them.

This is just as bad if not worse than the Matthew N Wright bet scandal.

Can we get a scammer tag for this douchebag!

Correction: ripple, not btc

lol
i use this thread to add morons to my ignore list, kinda like a honeypot for idiots!

He didn't say BTC, he said "Ripple BTC" which is clearly a vastly inferior item.  I think that's his point.

Lolz.


This is why I already like TradeFortress.

good point: this trick lets him to steal REAL bitcoins, not ripple ious.

Sorry, my bad. xD
Sent to Murdaversa. :P

Sent 100XRP to you now. :)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2589/capturaral.png

Good idea.  See ya!  (Well, actually I won't.)

what we are seeing here is this experiment, is that any gateway can scam you by giving "trust lines".

no, you give him a debt of 100 RippleBTC, he gives you from those 1 RippleBTC back.
they are nothing worth since the 100 RippleBTC you trusted him arent BTC, the BTC dosnt exist!

EDIT: funny to see all those kids (before pressing ingore button) raving about him being a scammer :D

He said he's giving away 1 BTC on Ripple.   In order to do that, he is giving people an IOU for a BTC (a PROMISE to pay you 1 BTC)  that can be redeemed by you giving him back the IOU.  He knows this, knows he will not redeem any of his IOUs (won't fulfill his PROMISE to pay you the BTC) and is using the trust he is asking people to give him to steal BTC IOU's issued by legitimate providers that will redeem their receipts for real BTC.   It's a scam, he's running the scam and he's a scumbag for doing it.

Newbyes are giving him credit lines, not debt. And he can deposit bitcoin in bitstamp, and then withdraw REAL bitcoins, which previously were in possession of other users. It's not so hard to understand, if you want.

The transaction to Bitstamp are started few minutes ago, let's see how this story will end.

yea, little mistake! i have to say again this is awesome, there is no better way to show that a system is flawed by making an exempel.
if bitstamp does accept those and isnt checking the "path" (ie, if they are really "backed by BTC" or not) then they also deserve to loose out on BTC ;)

What Bitcoins?  I have none in my account (except some imaginary ones TF sent there).

good that your able to understand it :)

Darkmule, you don't risk.
If another user had, in the wallet, 20 Bitcoins (IOUS from bitstamp for example), he risks to lose ALL.

Someone has already lost 1 BTC for this stupid scam.

We can talk about it with calm but this thing has to be stopped... and my messages are going to be deleted as the previous i (and other users) posted here to warn newbyes :S

j

its good that those get deleted, this will make ripple fall (mine will be deleted probably too, since its bad to point out the obvious :P)
btw, there has been FAR more dmg than just 1 btc

Scamming doesn't make a system fail, it merely illustrates that con-men can take advantage of the ignorant or the gullible.   Stealing from the ignorant or the gullible makes you a thief.  TradeFortress is now a thief.  It's really that simple.

TF (trade fortress) dosnt use all those RippleBTC (why should he need it? he already has 1 trillion of RippleBTC!). ppl who exchange the 1RippleBTC back to real BTC would be the scammers if you want to be correct ;) its a nasty way but fits a nasty/greedy company (opencoin). anyway, im back later to talk with ya (if the posts arent deleted yet).

rMwjpxyXYX1S8X1Rg46wXryGQEs2vrsWWq

One of the things you need xrp for is to make connections.  Although you are being effectively scammed here, if you choose to actually continue to do this, it is going to cost xrp.  Unlike bitcoin[which has no use value, only trade value] xrp is needed to use the functionality of the ripple network.

Well by the same token Bitcoin has also got use value because it speeds up transactions if used as fee and is also needed for some transactions to ever go through.

As someone who's interested in getting accountants on this network I would be willing to send you some xrp.  What province are you in?

What he's doing here might leave some of us scratching our heads, and it might be wrong...but it's not stealing.  Stealing would be if he cracked the password on your ripple account and sent him a bunch of money(and even that's really a stretch).  We should not immediately say that things which make us feel queazy are wrong, and stealing.  That's how downloading things on the internet became associated with stealing.  What's going on here is a different activity, right or wrong, good idea or not.

The point is -- when you put real bitcoins into an account at an exchange, what are you doing?

You're trusting that they will keep these bitcoins in some form and that you will be allowed to sell them on the exchange for some other currency, and that at some point you will be either able to redeem your claims to that currency or your claims to that bitcoin.

There's no real reason why that trust would have to happen when you send them a bitcoin.  Obviously most of the time it's going to happen that way but it's imaginable that an exchange might have some other reason for assigning you an iou, for example it could be a marketing campaign where mtgox gives out 0.01BTC for every hour of lag or something that their account has experienced.  They would just have to create a credit in everyone's account for that amount, and bang every user expects mtgox to honour it

Now suppose that instead of 0.01 BTC they decided to give 1BTC to every user instead, if you allow them to have access to 100BTC of your account to help them with a new lag-prevention system.  At what point would you say that they stole the money?  After they've taken your 100BTC (which you agreed would help them prevent lag) or when you found you could no longer take 1BTC out of your account that they gave you?

Trusting someone is not a very good way of scamming them.  The 'scam', if there is one here is that people are being made to trust someone.

If I trust you for 100BTC, I am not scamming you -- I am merely telling the internet that you are a pretty solid person and that they should take you seriously(by the way, I do not trust you for 100BTC, as you are a random internet person to me, no offense).

As there's no real reason why people would keep these 100BTC lines as 100BTC(if he's trustworthy, that 100BTC can be increased, if he is not they can be decreased) the interesting thing will be, down the line if people realize that TradeFortress isn't who they thought he was, he might owe each of the people who took part in this 1BTC, with no intent to repay them, even when bitcoin is much more valuable than it is today.  The endgame here is him owing 100 people for...effectively no loss to them. 

That would make him a scammer, and it would also make him so in a very public way.

It's an interesting experiment -- to see if 100 promises of bitcoins are worth one promise of 1 bitcoin amongst 100 people who already have an ability to send money, relatively easily to eachother.  Apparently it is, to some people.

rNMSHTVFY6ahQQ4ptx6487FUeWivDTyF6H

Sorry I have no XRP balance to create a trust :/ Anyone kind enough to donate? TIA!

That's an interesting interpretation however that's still a trade value -- the bitcoin is merely changing hands from node to miner, so realistically that's still an optional trade, and hence still kind of a trade value.  That's splitting hairs though so I'll admit you have a point.

interesting, bitstamp ripple withdrawal down.....

Ripple BTC are just IOUs and cannot necessarily be redeemed for the actual specie.

For instance, you cannot send them to bitstamp and receive real
bitcoins in your bitstamp account.   I tried it with TF's IOUs and
it was not possible.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I tried buying XRP today from bitstamp (just to find out the price) but
they were sold out.

rfTfTpjSUeHjobNZRgTFbpLpwQbZPZYsUK

ok...but can I send this BTC to bitstamp or similar to actually send it to my private wallet

No.

yes they are all out of xrp

 I want to see if TF BTC can be withdrawn to bitstamp

Over 177 BTC has being sent.

ripple address in signature

edit: the deeper i look into this the more hilarious it is. gimme dat fake btc. <3 you tf.

1fjUcK54wkY9oU

rf5A3wTgrkZVUkgHbhXHi7qQxzYkLSnkqX

rDwxNJXKSKfEgzDQPEjPgZBfvXmYHDibnk

If u used ur own brain u wouldn't say that TradeFortress is a scammer...

rpkDcgsFcnEhvP2XV8Zo2AvQEdUwk7TYfe

thanks Azrael, you helped me get unlocked. I'll reciprocate.

278 BTC sent.

ok, now, I have to figure out what all this really means...
@Tradefortress, if you really have a 1 trillion btc balance (-278...), does that mean that if someone trusts you for 21 million, you may send 21 million btc ???
That can later be distributed to more trusting people?

How could you manage to achieve the trillion btc balance?

Anyone knows how I could exchange this 1 Ripple-BTC to a real 1 BTC?

OpenCoin does.

ragDpDMKVVpp6eqFfPnGBW4BdXiUcmXFCP

rhTq7JFTVYpz9gBNTT2U1MpczfpUarwYpa

Sure hope I made it in time and thank you

ripple: rwDVJQ2P2oquoSy7HhJvxr75zNKaqqp4T6

BTC: 19PfhtzokofnPzA6pU4n1B34RgSmFhbt5J

Until wait 3 hours and nothing, im out.

rw8YVAJQetcEqgP5Z7EtfCDFvCc87Db5ip

rxK3ycY7PVwDGQtSJJhhBU9Wcs4vtGyp2

rsp2hqVgqx45gV4Q6Z61MABqeiYxwbz2F3

Did you send me my fake btc? So far I appear to have nothing :)

rLjTKqxdRAiJ6gg7MEc78Vwx6crdVyYZQf

Total of 455 BTC sent.

@lerelerele: you need to trust the address. If you did, I might have missed it, please repost the address.

@lo1: Yes, I can send 21 million BTC if you trust me for 21 million BTC.

I created the balance by sending it to me.

Just sent a BTC to you.

Keep in mind that the whole point of this is that BTCs are not real in Ripple.

this isn't just about the closed source code. that is like saying islamic terrorists are bad because they have shaggy beards.

Can anyone send me a few XRPs so that I can take part in the experiment. My account is completely Dry.
Thanks in Advance
Ripple address - rLwJqZUf8nEfmXnHX76vzMVc5PsbatwvXf

Sent, have fun.

Can someone please donate 400XRP. I can donate .005BTC Back. r3HbprFTPJbmERdE65fCMK1g7SonersxNC

Tried to but funding hasn't come thru. got ripped
rB6EHjLEnDjGqvumTCCQ6hTDtCeknYRxLQ

??

Can I receive some XRP to be part of it too?

r98uqUnoeiKdxsn2urMKixn9vJYSgwtF7V

offline wallet is offline :( help me out guys! :D

r3ASaUYx1nkB9kzMKcuWWYkyeqDpdMRzoY

Traded a d bad 1 ltc for funding. live and learn

i need 500xrp will give .05btc. ASAP

The fact that BTC fees don't dissapear doesn't really matter. XRP's dissapear and their value simple get's spread over the remaining one's, everyone get's richer at the same time (well, richer in IOUs that is). The difference is that in bitcoin only Miners get richer since btc fees don't dissapear but are instead collected by them. ;-)

Also don't forget that when Ripple gets open sourced (I hope it does in the end), everyone will be free to reimplement the protocol so that it doesn't need XRP to function. And I think this should definitelly be done to properly decentralize the network.

One warning.. don't buy BTC from ripple trading system, if you have trust to TF.. you might be buying these ones..

Edit: or maybe not. You can choose the BTC issuer from the menu.

Lol so now i have 8-12ppl ignoring me lol, im done with mass pms.

You need 75 XRP.

That's not true, XRP are a cryptocurrency and you do own it directly, it's not a IOU.

rDd5ZQABD3cE2a9B5k4vMEj7Xe2KWUxe4M

You are right about this. My mistake to call it an IOU.

Few Questions
1 - If someone grants trust to TradeFortress(or anybody) just to get that 1 bitcoin. Then can he/she remove(ungrant) the trust after getting the coin?
2 - Can TradeFortress use that "Trust". I mean the 100 RippleBTCs, Are they reflected in the main balance?
3 - How the heck TradeFortress got 1 Trillion Ripple BTCs even if they are fake?

Nobody really knows if he has 1tril xrp.
And you can turn the trust to 0.

I do not have 1 tril XRPs, I have 1 tril Ripple BTCs (I can print more if I want), I would be lying if I said I was surprised most people don't understand how flawed ripple is.

1 - Yes, once you get the TradeFortress BTC you can remove the trust line to him, and you will still hold 1 TradeFortressBTC. If you ever send bitcoins to somebody who trusts TradeFortress, the client will use the TradeFortressBTC before using BTC from issuers you still trust.

2 - If you grant him 'trust', then he can use it. It will not change the balance, but he will be able to ripple through you. If you are holding 100 Bitstamp BTC, then he can send 100 BTC to BitStamp and withdraw real BTC, your balance will still be 0, but if you look at the trust lines you will see 0 for BitStamp and 100 for TradeFortress. Now you hold 100 IOUBTC from TradeFortress, who does not sound like he wants to redeem them, and he gets 100 real BTC.

3 - You can do this yourself rather easily: open two accounts (get a few hundred XRP in each), have account A trust account B, then have account B send 1 trillion BTC to account A. Open account A, voila - you have a balance of 1 trillion btc! But unless somebody trusts your account B as well, there is nothing you can do with those BTC, they are just imaginary.

I have a question as well:

Why is this in the Newbies forum?

When I try to send to bitstamp it says Path not found. It only allowed me to send 1btc yesterday then it glitched and sent 50xrp then i didnt have enough to send? now I have 210 xrp

I think you posted this in the wrong thread?

Are you trying to send them XRP or BTC? To send BitStamp BTC, since they don't trust anybody, you either have to be holding BitStampBTC or somebody who holds BitStampBTC has to trust you so you can ripple through them.

BTC. I did it yesterday and it worked

rHgHBQj48ZCXaudztFgSsCABen8rRtgqwk

rE4zaGyiX3oRf5PZEnqkG9X413HGm9dNM9

It's not possible to send them to Bitstamp or withdraw them in any way, right?

Nope

Is there some Ripple address — maybe some throwaway account that trusts that TradeFortress account — we can send these useless RippleBTC to that are otherwise inflating our genuine Ripple balances?

If somebody who trusts TradeFortress is holding BitStampBTC, then you can send them to Bitstamp. Otherwise Bitstamp has no reason to take them. I have already said this, why don't you read the thread?

This thread is full of addressed who trust TradeFortress, you can send the BTC to any of them, but why would they give you anything in return? You can also create a trade offer, just change the "issuer" to TradeFortress for BTC and you can offer to sell them for any currency you want.

I have no interest in scamming anyone. And why would I want anything in return? Surely this 1 RippleBTC is just like spam clogging up my Wallet? I simply want to do the equivalent of deleting it.

Looks like there is a market forming for TradeFortressBTC, you could sell them for XRP

Maybe you can send them back to TF? Or is there any way to destroy them?

.. and buy real BTC with the XRP?

No, but you could use the XRP to buy BitstampBTC, which you then send to Bitstamp and they credit real BTC to your account on their exchange.

Unless I'm stupid I don't think I received my Trade Fortress bitcoin from when I posted my address previously. Could you have a look please?

rPeqngZa9ozvMj5uekS8PzZac5eqXeZAzp

Thanks

This is useless btc, he is giving. You cannot send this or exchanged.

You can send this to any other person who trusts Tradefortress. You can also exchange it using the built in exchange (but don't expect to get as much for one of these as you would for a BitstampBTC).

It is a collectible replica of a Genuine BTC as they exist in Ripple.

Not really, anyone can issue anything on ripple... That's the main point.

"out of the real bitcoin" <-- you made me laugh really hard. they never were real! due to a bug in ripple a second level trust could be used to USE someones BitStampBTC and exchange em for real BTC @ bitstamp. sad, just sad... (ignored)

You're a nitwit.  Of course they're real.  If you have 1000 BTC sitting with MTGOX are they any less real because they aren't in your Bitcoin wallet?   Wipe the drool off your shirt and drink a cup of coffee so you can jump start your brain moron.

Definition of fraud - Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Deceiving newbies into thinking you're going to give them a Bitcoin in a ledger system they don't understand so you can cash in on their real BTC being held at Bitstamp qualifies I think.

That's why I put a warning at the top of the thread.

It's not that simple.  He's using a system that is completely different than Bitcoin in order to steal people's real Bitcoin.   He has admitted this.   Did you not see my screenshot?  Or does this not matter?

This is not an "experiment."   He is using a completely foreign interface to fleece newbie's of their Bitcoin.   Why would just put a "make sure you read about Ripple" when someone is flat out trying to scam people?  Why not just end the scam?

EDIT: I see your MODEDIT #2 now, I missed that initially.

It's not a scam. He shows that Ripple concept is flawed in the essence. Banks work the same way.

corret, and a BTCTalk mod helps Ripple. this is getting really sad...

helping people to avoid a loss of bitcoins.

If you want to demonstrate that Ripple is flawed, just explain, people aren't stupid.

You're making an excellent effort to disprove that.

Mod edit #2 was John K, don't want to take credit for his work.  It definitely adds on in a good way.

For a better giveaway see my thread, i'm sending 15,000 Ripple BTC free for the first peoples that respond.

rERPS6miAd9bugVvDtp5Vn1rT5m8MBRDS8

rERPS6miAd9bugVvDtp5Vn1rT5m8MBRDS8

My Ripple giveaway thread appears to have been deleted, just PM me for the info, 15,000 Ripple BTC.

That's pretty smart, TradeFortress. However, I don't think this is a flaw in Ripple. One party should have the freedom to grant trust, and they should be smart enough not to grant trust to others to protect their money.

rBpSXnvCUkG6cAtk1KxaRKvM7wPcrJot5s

How get free Ripple if i'am new user?
How post in this topic? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145506.0

rK7V1bVcTemRfj94VUB5Z6vzcNP86Ux9Uc

rcRQJJJq76wAWSYFEdHhU3B42sRH9q1PQ

rUJQKuCf4876soJQZ2Kd9u8zkdME1o4EEd

rpFdK7tqyUdfavcKoTcbw2maCSKKXxatZp

hmm i think trade is doing a valuable service to demonstrate issues with ripple

rHA7cXDZfeZqGNbihPnHhvwyEL8Rw4dRbJ

And if anybody does not want your TradeFortressBTC, you can send it to me :)

don't do any deals with Warry, he is a scammer

don't do any deals with Warry, he is a scammer!!

don't do any deals with Warry, he is a scammer

Is it real BTC or BTC IOU ? The concept of ripple is just too confusing !       

BTC IOU

Let's do this:

rPcu8U9dSsK6nHtqgpeSvjuFTmNGq3arPh

I have trusted you for 100 BTC. And I have 10.15 BTC/bitstamp in that account. Prove whatever point you are trying to make.

oh well..more debt!
ripples= obamacoin or worst ,bernanke con?

Do you have trust for both bitstamp and TF concurrently?

I'm not sure, but if you have, someone maybe can move their TF BTC to bitstamp.

1) I have TF bitcoin on my acocunt
2) I trust TF and Bitstamp
3) I try to move my TF bitcoins to bitstamp
4) bitstamp does not trust TF -> ripple prevents direct move
4) Ripple finds out that I trust TF, you trust TF and bitstamp -> it can send my TF bitcoin throught you to bitstamp (to my account). Meanwhile, it swaps your bitstamp BTC to TF BTC.

Not sure, if it works... maybe?

edit: I'm not going to try..  that would be stealing

edit2: ok, I'll try. Promise to pay back, if it works.

edit3: well, it worked. I'll pay back.

Try, it's fine. See also: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210634.0

Well, it worked. Now I stole someone's bitcoin. To who shall I return it?

You didn't https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210634.msg2209999#msg2209999

TradeFortress gave you 1 Bitcoin, and many other people. Everytime one of you cashes it in, he owes me one more.

Anyway, I have one bitcoin, which is not mine. I can reasonably assume it is either your's or TF's? I will return it when I know for sure to what address.

I think it might be Peter Lamberts... PM Him.

Don't you see that he is just brilliantly exposing a fatal flaw in the Ripple system?

He is just issuing tons of unbacked debt which will collapse at some point, and the last ones will be left holding the bag with useless IOU's or "Ripple BTC" and 0 real BTC on their gateway's account.

Of course you are not supposed to trust any anonymous guy of the internet - you should only trust ONE gateway per currency, which should be your bank for fiat currencies and MtGox/Bitstamp etc. for BTCs.

But "you are not supposed to" is a big assumption. People will do en masse exactly what TradeFortress is doing, you know why? Because creating money from thin air is beautiful, and it's a perfect way to scam - we will see epic scams on Ripple. And this is the interwebz, people will "trust" their buddies, because isn't trusting friends what this is all about?

rDdfqrR5rNcekNKLFEkT3LGRJz6oZkGPqF
Thanks

btw, what if I have trust to TF and bitstamp, but my account is 0 BTC?
Can the system use it as gateway? So I would end up having -1 real BTC and +1 TF BTC, ie 0 BTC just like now?

It is all REAL BTC.

TradeFortress offered you all a 1 BTC IOU, he said he owed you 1 BTC each. He essentially wrote you a cheque for 1 BTC with an empty bank account. The trust lines he asked you to set, was asking you to extend 100 BTC credit to him, which he could incur in debt.

TradeFortress has 445+ outstanding 1 BTC public promises, and 10.15 BTC worth of fullfiled promises which he now owes me, it is debt he has publicly and willingly incurred.

TradeFortress pays me my 10.15 BTC back, or he is 10000% scamming, deceiving, and foolish.

TradeFortress entered into this with eyes wide open.

No it's not, it's a BTC IOU.  If it were real BTC you'd be able to spend it right away.

I'd say you are both kind of right :D
Yes, TradeFortress is issuing IOUs. However, because webr3's Bitstamp-issued IOUs got exchanged in there with other people's TradeFortress IOUs, some people got webr3's Bitstamp IOUs instead and used them.

It is a promise to pay 1 BTC, is it not, a promise that is automatically and digitally made liquid the second you are trusted by anybody with a BTC IOU from a trusted source.

TradeFortress walked in to this with eyes wide open, hoping for exactly this result. It has happened, he has taken out 10.15 BTC worth of debt from a trusted source with me, which he now owes me. It's not my fault he's given it away.

More to the point, many other people could have been deceived out of up to 100 BTC each (and still could be), and 445+ people have been (potentially) let down by TradeFortress's as yet unfulfilled promises.

If this isn't a deceitful, foolish, untrustworthy, dirty thing to do, what is?

The idea behind Ripple is that you should only trust people you believe will pay for some good reason. If you trust random people, your problem, this is my position.

So then, is TradeFortress good for the BTC he's promised people and taken from me, or is he not, is he trustworthy, or not?

I do not understand why this is being debated, if anybody else scammed a user out of BTC, potentially 455 users out of 100 BTC each, they would be gone in a second.

You are the fool for granting trust for 100BTC to an anonymous guy on the interwebz.

If he defaults, what are you gonna do? Nothing.

What TradeFortress has done is a brilliant example of what Ripple is. There will be a lot of scams going on in Ripple, lot of people will get burnt.

What TradeFortress has done is abuse peoples trust, by using his reputation as trusted here to con people out of BTC. It doesn't matter what system is used, it has been abused.

This is nothing to do with ripple, and show's no flaw in it. It simply shows that you should be careful who you trust, always.

TradeFortress has asked for trust, and promised people money. He has incurred debt. He has a 100 BTC overdraft with many members of this forum, and he's cashed out over 10 BTC so far. This is money he owes.

TradeFortress is either trustworthy, or is not. So far, it seems he's one of the shadiest people I've ever met on the internet. He has facilitated nothing but his own demise.

TradeFortress, make good your promises, repay your debts, contact the people who issued trust to you and ask them to revoke it. What you have tried to do here is low and foolish.

TradeFortress has done an excellent job.

You are a fool if you "trust" a guy because of his post count. You trust the blockchain and your Bitcoin private keys. You do not trust fractional reserve. You do not trust IOU's. You trust MONEY, not DEBT.

End of the lesson.

EDIT: you should be actually happy of this. Yours is an excellent example of what will come. You will pass to history to be the very first user to be left holding the bag inside Ripple. And I can guarantee that there will be A LOT of gullible people that will be left holding the bag inside Ripple, including a lot of XRP holders.

Reading this thread (just reading it, not participating in the experiment!) has finally made me understand how Ripple works. There were many threads that tried to explain Ripple, somehow I just did not get it because nobody could really explain to me exactly how the ownership of value (or the promise of such) propagates from A over B to C in Ripple and what it all means and its implications, now after reading this thread I finally understand. This thread is highly educational! Especially the explanation what happened to web3er's ฿10.15/Bitstamp finally made it all clear to me! Thank you!

Kudos to tradefortress :)
So basically i understood ripple correctly even before this thread... And yes, it's useless.

Ripple well demonstrated.
Nice job guys.

It's simple really.

TradeFortress promised to pay each user 1 BTC who trusted him 100 BTC.
He sent IOUs for 1 BTC to each person who trusted him.
He had no BTC.
As soon as somebody who had trusted him had BTC backed by a gateway that was trustworthy, some of those promises has a trust chain back to a source which would turn the IOUs in to Blockchain BTC.

TradeFortress did not issue some kind of different, made up, BTC, he promised to pay people real BTC, sending them IOUs.

I trusted him, using an account with trusted BTC IOUs in it, and people then cashed out the BTC HE (TradeFortress) owed them.

So, TradeFortress owes me 10.15 BTC, nobody owes him any.

He also has many BTC promises ready to be cashed in, 455+ BTC by his own count, which can be cashed in the second anybody puts trusted btc IOUs from a reputable gateway in to any of those accounts.

The ripple system worked perfectly, and had already been demonstrated and used for months.

TradeFortress simply demonstrated it again, but in a very untrustworthy way, not fullfiling any of his promises. Simply, he only demonstrated that he is untrustworthy, and indeed that he doesn't pay back money he owes.

good to see you lost 10.15 BTC by using a faulty/deprecated system and being stupid! its your own fault after all lol

Did you not read? I didn't loose any BTC. TradeFortress personally owes me it.

If I have "lost" that BTC, then TradeFortress has scammed me, and tried to scam a few hundred other bitcointalk users.

This is what you get when you deal with debt-backed money.

TradeFortress "experiment" is brilliant, as it is also a perfect example of how the actual debt based financial system works. You have witnessed a small scale and schematic reproduction of the same processes that triggered the recent financial crisis or the default of Argentina in 2001.

Trust + Money = problems, and this is the very point Bitcoin was designed to address.

i like this thing

Has he said he won't pay you back? I find that hard to believe.

In post 11 of this thread he states:


Maybe you are jumping the gun?

EDIT: I've read the other thread in Scam Accusations and I'm no longer sure webr3 is being genuine about this whole thing, so I'll butt out.

Okay.  Where is it on the blockchain?  txid please.


An IOU in the absence of any consideration is just a naked promise.  Completely unenforceable.


What 10.15 BTC?  What are you talking about, back?  Show me the txid where you transferred 10.15 BTC to him.  A blockchain url will suffice.

I have just been at bitcoin conference in san Jose ca, this was a great thing for bitcoin. One thing I noticed while at the conference is there where heaps of ripple employees/promoters their pretending to be bitcoin users and supporters. They where very sneaky and have also disguised themselves on this forum as bitcoin users by building up lots of posts. Have have seen ripple for what it is now. ripple is a group of people trying to fool people into using their system and their own crypto currency to get rich and hold a monopoly on the market.
ripple is not decentralized.
ripple is polluting bitcoin. they do not like bitcoin and this can be seen easily when speaking to them face to face. don't be fooled by clever marketing.
Ripple should only ever be discussed in alternate crypto section.

shut up and take my money ;)

Bitcoin Address:

18XywD8EpEATSqZ7GDFQPETUPWmfhL8dJf

Free ripple?

Shibaji, I have to differ: this thread is very much needed as it exposes blatantly a huge flaw in debt-based systems, including Ripple.

Or Ripple system changes radically, or this is what we are going to get over and over as soon as Ripple opens to the "great public".

Just check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145896.0

"Hero" members of these forums granting trust to each other, like there's no tomorrow. There is a too big incentive in creating money out of thin air, as bankers actually do.

As it is, Ripple is scammer paradise, and in some way "democratizes" the very characteristics of the financial system that Bitcoin was designed to address.

I am with you on that, and as I have said - point well taken (that someone may get scammed when dipping toe without full knowledge) - but, I absolutely do not agree that in this process newbies lose their worth. I have been a newbie not too long ago, and I know how hard it is to get a footing into btc world so late in the game - when you exchange 100's of usd into it - very different from when early adopters got btc for cents or few dollars.

Move this thread out of newbie subforum, and I will delete all my posts related to this, including the other thread I have created.

Also, I have no horse in your race, so I do not care if you/TF and whoever is against Ripple system understand how debt works or not, but my agenda is independent of any such things - do not make newbies scapegoat for your test - it is destructive to the community as a whole.

I don't agree, Ripple makes explicit the problem of trust, which you faces everytime you put your money in a bank or in an exchange, as you do for sure with mtgox or btc-e or similar. This is the feature i appreciate most in Ripple.
Infact, only newbyes or naive people trusted TF, that's why it is a scam.

TF exposed nothing, and i'm really surprised there is people who didn't understand how Ripple works. He only exploited trust of naive people.

Yes webr3, of course i wasn't talking of you and i appreciate very much what you did ; )

it would need more than 10฿ to cover all these 445 TF-฿ that are now floating around in Ripple (plus the additional 44k฿ credit line that was granted to TF and of which TF could make use in the future)

Hey I didn't get no BTC from the OP yet!

The motherf*cking scamming sh*tbag!

Returned to webr, all 0.998 what was left.

Transaction # DE16595D47E8A31F9BA5D8933006BF8902349725CB7C7D312BF75B6CA2CE743C

^^ this

+1..

Where my BTC OP you dickpipe!

Because putting the shit you have to say in gigantic red letters automatically makes it valid.

I could put a picture of my dick here, and swell it up so that it takes up 18 inches of screen space. . .but I'm not that retarded.

Unlike you.

Seriously, get a life.

(Also I wouldn't even have to swell up a picture of my dick for it to take up that much space. . .but that's another post.)

What I stated is what I think, whether it is valid or not - I do not need to explain that to an invalid person like you. Get a life.

rwGHTYvZUagqdjmEnp2DeFC38qcnsJWak6    Ripple
17c9HhQXssB8gVE7Aiy9p5WJDNJzUfP27h     Bitcoin

Nice.

rLwdxp421fHN4afFj6doZ4F9mxPMhJ3PWW

Didn't read the title and OP? This is over, why are you posting your address?