Bitcoin Forum

Now that the US is going after Gox for not being a properly licenses money services business, I wonder how long BTC-E can stay in business. Contrary to popular belief BTC-E is in Bulgaria not Russia- and Bulgaria isn't as likely as Russia to stand up to external pressure from the US government.

Also Bulgaria will be just as likely as the US to eventually go after an unlicensed (and it is, as far as we know, unlicensed) exchange. Bulgaria has many greater European integration ambitions so they will be keen to adhere to rules and regulations.

Does anyone know if BTC-E intends to come aboveboard and become a legally licensed exchange? I know the fun is in it being 'black market' but these days it should be obvious to all that can't last forever. They do deal in Fiat USD and Fiat EUR after all.

Its simple... in Soviet Russia you don't license Gox, Gox license you.

I won't trade on a regulated exchange.

All the tools necessary to operate outside of any government's reach are already out there.

They are from Soviet Russia.

And if they could improve their security with yubikey, allow special character in password and their graph, they would be even more popular than Gox

Damn, BTC-E, what are you doing in EU, move out, we need unlicensed exchanges.

Bulgaria is not in Russia.

isnt this to do with the USD trading, the EU commission would probably need to do a report (many years) before they take any action on EUR trading which would likely need member approval in the majority to even go to a vote on maybe making it law.  All they will need to do is drop USD trades and peeps will need to withdraw in EUR so their bank can convert when the funds arrive.

edit- I don't see anything illegal in even getting paid in Zimbabwe dollars, my bank will exchange them when the money arrives and i'm sure many countries around the world would benefit from millions of dollars worth of trading in their currency each day, especially the poorer ones, but their money is still money!

You imply gox was not compliant to regulations. But it Likely was compliant. So the issue is unknown at this time so hard to extrapolate.

If the exchange does not trade in USD then the US has no authority to regulate jack squat. Easy solution

It would be nice to have an easy way to convert coins to fiat currency and back though.

Agree but they also need to make it easier to deposit with credit card and etc, awkward trying to deposit in foreign language.

Please, do not ask for that stupid G00gle auth, you have to log in on google to login on other site. Google wants to got you under its eye 24hs.

BTC-e is secure, he sends you a confirmation email if you want to withdraw; and email account can't be changed with a confirmation either.

The hell??? I am from Bulgaria, and this is the first I've heard of that.

Not sure what you're on about I have more than 5 special chars in mine....

They don't use the US banking system.

Where did you get it is from Bulgaria?

I don't think so, they use loads of Russian payment deposit options including Russian banks etc and none of Bulgarian..

Note that your bank will NOT exchange Zimbabwe dollars, nor will anyone else but a collector.

If they dont have bank accounts in usa why they should care ?

America sticking there fat American figures where they dont belong again..... there the ones that screwed up the banking system and now they want bitcoin...

bit of luck UK will drop out of Europe and then BTC-E can move to here :D show America and EU what for.... or more than likely move to Japan or Russia

If you don't, well, there is always the risk of getting arrested and have all assets frozen kim dotcom style. USSA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX5ZRE26YWM)

What's wrong with Bulgaria?  They've been advertising in Businessweek for a while now... 10% flat tax, very business friendly, sounds like a good place for a BTC exchange.

The U.S. gov hasn't targeted the whole of Gox, yet.  Just the Dwolla account, which was obtained with information the U.S. gov deems incorrect.

I'm sure they are looking for other weak links as well.

Yeah the withdrawal confirmation is epic.  Plus they actually withdrawal promptly.  They are a top notch exchange in my opinion.  Plus a trollbox.

yeah BTC-E is topnotch

Trollbox is very good for on the pulse news, MtGox Dwolla info was shouted about there first, thankfully i sold my litecoins quickly then rebought at 2.5 :P just gotta be careful that it's genuine.

Read their website. "For all legal purposes, these Terms of Use shall be governed by the laws applicable in the Republic of Bulgaria." Terms page.

Just checked the withdraw options and it seems paypal's there, skrill also. Did anyone use those, do they actually work? If they do, very nice, gg btc-e  8)

You are wrong, google authenticator is a OTP (2FA) app that you install on your phone, 99% of the people trust it for their gmail account, but you can add aditional websites, google don't even know what websites you put on in. it's safe as long as you got no malware on your phone, if it was unsecure it will be a huge backlash for google. Notice how even btc-e advised that you use gmail with OTP...  that's google authenticator, it's different than linking your account in some webpage to the google login.

I wouldn't consider using Paypal at all , I tried  it once and lost allot of money, they charge you 0.2 fee for your trade than 6 % to withdraw, than Paypal charge you again with even bigger fee for receiving the money, and than if you want to convert from USD to your local currency (Euro in my case) you will lose another X% of the conversion because of the low rate that Paypal offers. Just keep away from Paypal really.


 OP, I think that LTC is undervalued because of BTC-e, a real investor wont go there at all , because it is so hard to get your FIAT into there, so only miners are speculating and buying and selling from each other. this is why LTC is undervalued, when it will hit Mt.gox we will see the real value of it .

we need BTC-e  until Mt.gox add LTC than BTC-e will die any ways , only the ALT junk coins will be traded there.

Bitinstant to mtgox , mtgox to btc-e? Well that's how I did it

You are correct. I don't care what country they are based in, if they offer their services to US customers in the form of X crypto currency to FIAT and FIAT to x crypto currency, then they will get shut down if they are not FINcen compliant.

Its not a matter of if, but its a matter of when. Anyone that leaves any FIAT or crypto on btc-e is gambling. The Us government WILL, not IF, shut them down. Sorry if you have a lot of money on there when that happens. The domain will get seized and any FIAT bank accounts will be frozen.

Again, it is no t a matter of if, but when it will happen.

Ps: I first expressed these concerns about a month ago even before Mt Gox got served.

I received several Paypal payments from BTCe and it was obvious they were breaking in the law at the time. Not only did the PayPal payments come from random individuals and shell companies, but they also ask for no over indintification of your identity.

They are blatantly FINcen non compliant.

Google Authenticator has nothing to do with any Google account and Google knows nothing about the OTPs generated to access your protected accounts. You better learn how the Android app works.

Interesting news! I just wonder now why everybody assumed that btc-e was Russian. By the way, bitcoin7 was Bulgarian too.

I'm wondering why there aren't MORE unregulated exchanges.

Maybe there already is, but there needs to be some open source code out there for building an exchange site - where you can just add your own CSS and its ready to go. Then open about 20 bank accounts or more under various IDs and legal fictions and rotate them for various customers. If a 100 people did that the governments of the world would have no chance.

Don't worry.  Your precious investment in Avalon asics will be okay.  BTC will probably be over 300 next year or so.  You don't have to be so threatened by Worldcoin or whatever other altcoin.  You and Crazy_rabbit are so agonized by these altcoin releases that it's laughable.  There's no need to hype the gox FUD into btc-e.  NOTHING is a surprise or new...not even the Dwolla/gox news.  Fincen has been a debate for quite sometime.  And may I just add Bter.com is proving itself to be very reputable, so I am sure it will step up and handle the void left by btc-e's exit, if it happens. Not to mention the handful of American exchange start-ups to go live this summer, offering margin accounts and shorting capabilities.  And more importantly, as stated in Fincen's reports, virtual currencies are still being defined and classified properly.  And this has much more to do with online gambling being legalized in the States than anything else--not btc-e being a black market or whatever.

This is why crypto's are the future.

Are you talking about fiat or BTC? If there is a way to transfer fiat from gox to BTC-e I would love to know about it. (I am still a relative noob at all this)

MtGox said they didn't do money services.
They do money services.
Oops.

You install the app in your phone, it links with your g00gle account. I'm not saying it's "insecure" I'm simply saying that you are linking your phone, and your google account to any website each time you want to log in. The key generated is pinged by the website to get the key to enter.
Why do I must have a g00gle account anyway? Check "Cryptonit": without g00gle auth, (and without you giving information to google), you can't withdraw your coins.

Let them control your life, luckily I read the "terms of service".

Now that Liberty Reserve is going to be prosecuted I think the OP question is now more relevant then ever.

Users who think that just because the company isn't in the United States doesn't mean the United States can't get you. They can, and they will. They got these guys and none of them were in the US, nor was the company in the US. If BTC-E is indeed operating without any licenses or outside of any regulations (they could be above board, but who knows) Users of BTC-E are being silly if they think that they are safe from the US government.

The lesson should be that they can get you anywhere. And they will.

Even if btce gets shut down, the most that will happen is an inconvenience, the money will be returned to account holders because nobody will be able to prove they came from an illegitimate source. Another exchange will take its place.

You're assuming quite a lot in that one. The 'inconvenience' could last years as a trial dragged through the legal system. Liquidators might return only USD selling off any coins at any rate without consideration.

You're also assuming BTC-E keeps meticulous records. If they don't- your money might looks like anyone else's and the burden of proof could be on the user to prove a) where the funds came from b)their identities. Look at Bitcoinica, Bitfloor, the old tradehill, Intersango, those funds are stuck indefinitely. With Bitcoinica Mt.Gox actually still has all the money, but the refuse to release it. What are you going to? Wait years for a resolution or until you forgot you ever owned it in the first place.

Not to mention, users could be targeted themselves.

I can tell u have a hate on for these type of services but your are most certainly fear mongering now.
No users, unless specifically targeted for illegal activities would be prosecuted and I'm sure a vast majority of people using btce are legitimate small time traders and miners. With cryptos the block chain would store all address of funds sent to btce so this could easily be used to return cryptos to there senders. The fiat cash would be a little more tricky but it would be up to the authorities to prove u committed a crime before seizure. Freezing btce funds is just that, frozen, not expropriated.

Bulgaria is under "friendly wings" of Russia :D lol this sounds very funny. But what i mean - US don't have influence on this country as it has on EU, etc. This region is more Russia domain where it comes to superstate territories.

Anyway there wasn't even described reasons for freezing Mt.Gox accounts? Or have I missed explaining of that?

Once again, I'd say look at the case of Bitcoinica- they are in liquidation yet the funds are still frozen. Indefinitely at this point.
I'm not saying the funds would be expropriated, but I am saying that frozen funds might take an extremely long time to get back. Surely you don't think the government would return funds without first asking everyones ID? Not to mention your blockchain example is flawed. The funds come in on the blockchain- yes. But what happens to them inside of the exchange is up to BTC-E. That would depend on BTC-E's internal record keeping and I assume any investigation into the recent 'hacks'.

Critical thinking isn't fear mongering.

EDIT: Sorry my quotes up there are a mess.

MtGox supposedly mislead the bank when it signed up for their account. However that's debatable as they said they weren't a currency exchange when they are. Although you can argue they weren't at the time.

In fact, you even have proof: e-gold. They where shut down in 2008 and only now people are able to get some of their money back (no idea how many %) if they provide identification. Mind you, this was a company located in US, it could be worse for a company located outside of US.

+1

Maybe Crazy Rabbit is hoping some of that good ol American "Freedom" can touch BTC-e and stop them trading all those sCrypt (and future evolutions) currencies .

you know the saying.... "hope in one hand ..........."

perhaps the IRS could have a look at it Rabbit ? - You know , the Tea party , then BTC-e  , where does the fun end !?

: D

in USSA - exchange trades you !

BTCe is actually located somewhere in China I believe. They're more in reach of the US gov than some might think.

got a question for you :

When you look in the mirror sometimes do you say to yourself;

"I can actually recall the moment I stopped believing in freedom.”

Noobs ITT are in denial.

It is clear to me BTC-e is in violation of FINcen. If the US government wants to shut them down, they will.

Again, IMO its not a matter of IF, but WHEN. And no they are not exempt from US laws because of they live in a different country, they still serve american customers and therefore are subject to US laws.

Digital industry, stop being silly.

Just because someone is privy to FINcen, and possible consequences of not following US laws, it does not mean they don't believe in freedom. It means they are well educated on the subject.

um.... you are advocating closing down an exchange for a decentralized currency in a different nation .

on a forum called "Bitcointalk.org" while supposedly supporting Bitcoin.






**
I’m just going to leave that there , and let that digest.

So are they in Bulgaria or Russia?

Anyway https://crypto-trade.com/ is not worse than btc-e, maybe even better, but still low volumes.

I am not advocating anything you idiot, stop putting words in my mouth. I hate FINcen just as much as anybody, but it is a reality and it is here to stay. There is nothing we can do about it short of lobbying for a change in government policy, which if you know anything about American politics, it is doubtful that anything can be done, the US government wants their cut.

further more the market is so liquid that it will basically self regulate - if an exchange goes full retard, everyone will either cut their holding or stop trading there .

the only reason “financial” markets need regulating is because they are not markets – they are monopolies.  Regulation is an attempt to stop them from just destroying everything and wrecking the economy .

at best it spreads out the hurt a little.

 if all the US government wanted was its cut there would be absolutely no problem in the world.

correct me if i am wrong, but what if you only trade crptyo-currencies.. do you need to still reg with the us govt through fincen thing.

I figured that was only if you messed with fiat type money.

Also look at the torrent scene.. everytime they close one.. ten open.. kinda a losing battle for the govt.

Under there "Terms"

I would also like to know the answer to this. Would a site like cryptsy need any sort of license? It seems like if the US government has not officially recognized crypto currencies as currencies, a crypto only exchange should not need a license.

i thought all altcoins are not currency and they do not trade usd or other fiat currencies on the exchange

This just isn't true.


It's open source. The login authentication code is generated by an algorithm based off the current timestamp, and changes every 30 seconds.