Bitcoin Forum

Someone skilled in the jeweler should already begin to make souvenir gold coins with bitcoin logo.
And sell them for bitcoin.

+1
great idea
I want to buy one of these

You can contract out the design and production of the die with your local mint (Northwest Territorial, of instance.) There's a pretty hefty up front cost for that, plus you want them produced in bulk, again, by the minting company. Just being able to buy any gold or silver with bitcoins would be great.

http://coinable.com (http://coinable.com)

Here is one place you could look at.

One idea is a bitcoin challenge coin. The idea is for everyone to get one and then if you meet another bitcoiner you challenge them to produce a coin and if they failed they owe you a beer ...as well as any other bitcoiners in the area who can produce their challenge coin.  :)

I'd be interested in a wearable Bitcoin badge. That way, if you see someone else wearing one, you know that you can transact using bitcoins instead of fiat currency.

yeah
* bitcoin cuff links
* bitcoin ear rings
Exciting!

Hello, Jeffrey here, owner of http://coinable.com (http://coinable.com). I noticed an interest in challenge coins. We can assist with your needs.

Challenge coins are made of brass, however we can create coins from .999 fine silver and solid 24K gold.
SPOT price + production and dies

http://www.kitco.com/market/ - SPOT price
__________________________________________

Challenge coins: $2.72 each, shiny gold plated
 add $4.00 more per coin for 24K gold plated.

Let me know....I am interested in your project and would like to help.

It would be interesting to issue a silver or gold plated brass token pegged to the value of bitcoin. Pegged value is explained here:

New World Economics (http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2010/022810.html)

Basically, the issuer would make the market for the tokens he issues, maintaining the market value at or sufficiently near the face value of bitcoins. In this way you could actually expand the money supply if demand warrants it. This strays from 100% backing, which I imagine many here would advocate for. Still, it is a more flexible way to operate a bitcoin backed token. A way to build trust in such a system would be to operate it as some sort of a non profit with a board of trustees comprised of trusted members of the community. Someone operating this for profit may not be as easily trusted.

This reminds me of the USMC...

Challenge Coins derived from a military tradition, Military Coins.

CHALLENGE COIN HISTORY: http://coinable.com/challenge_coin_history.html
CHALLENGE COIN RULES: http://coinable.com/challenge_coin_rules.html

Thanks for joining and posting.  I heard about them here http://noagendafans.com/rules-coin-challenge (http://noagendafans.com/rules-coin-challenge)

Might be an interesting bitcoin drinking game .

(anytime someone explains what a bitcoin is you have to take a drink )   :D

This thread gives a link to how it might work:

[url]http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737.0[/ur]

The trick is to set up some system to keep somebody from "spending" the electronic representation of the value of that bitcoin.  Scratch-off cards seem to be the current best system I've seen, and that doesn't seem to apply to a minted bitcoin.

If you put the wallet information for a bitcoin address that represents 1 BTC and put that physically into the interior of the coin in some fashion, you would have a coin that really is a "Bitcoin" coin with the actual value of 1 BTC.  To get the electronic value of the coin, you would literally have to destroy the coin.

I don't know if that is possible, but it would be interesting to find out.

What I proposed was a token pegged to bitcoin, not backed by it. Rather than go through all the trouble of destroying tokens or using scratch offs you would set up a transparent, accountable entity to buy and sell the tokens at their face value in bitcoins. If there is always someone willing to buy and sell at face value then the money supply could grow and shrink as demand dictates without deviating from face value. It all hinges on setting up a trustworthy issuing entity, perhaps a board of trustees operating within very narrow parameters.

I'm just throwing out an estimate, but such an entity could probably fluctuate between 80% to 120% of reserves to tokens issued without a problem. If they were as low as 80% and a run on the bank occurred they would just have to stand tall and show that they were willing to buy back their tokens at face value until all of their reserves were gone. Well before that happens, though, speculators would recognize what was going on and make up for the remaining 20% by buying discounted tokens, thereby rebidding the price back to face value and allowing the issuing entity to start rebuilding.

It's not fool proof, but neither is 100% backed warehouse receipts.

I want to buy 50 if they are made of chocolate!

A chest with chocolate bitcoins, and a paper with an address to claim the real bitcoins on the bottom of the chest.  That would be a nice gift!

That seems to be a full circle of monetary units if it happens, where a digital abstraction becomes something physical again.

You are correct that such an issuing entity would have to be trusted and that trust would be the key to such a physical currency.  The problem with pegging two currencies to each other is fraught with all kinds of problems where scarcity of one or the other is going to have an impact upon how they are used and the exchange rate.  The person at the middle of the exchange, namely the person "backing" the coins in some way is going to eventually get to the point where they will break when the two currencies get out of balance.

What you are also suggesting here is a fractional reserve currency, even if it is a physical coin rather than a paper note.  Even if every "physical bitcoin" is 100% backed up by a similar number of digital bitcoins, it still is a "fraction", although a relatively safe fraction of 1:1 reserves.  The moment you mint more coins than you have digital bitcoins in "reserve", the fraction is going to be smaller on the reserve to issued ratio.

I will ask this:  are you really serious about creating a Bitcoin-derived fractional reserve currency?

I always thought Bitcions were a stronger form of currency than gold.  This sort of proves the point where gold could be issued as the face of Bitcoins being held in a fractional reserve.

One day, governments might peg their currencies to the bitcoin. Just pick the most trustworthy one for your coinage, no?

This is why the issuing entity makes the market by buying and selling their tokens at or very close to face value. There may be situations where it would advantages to buy them back for slightly less than their face value with a promise to raise their buying price after XX number of tokens. This would give traders and incentive to bid up the price to face value, basically adding their bitcoins to the "reserve."

There are plenty of real world examples of this; such as currencies in Latin America that are pegged to the US dollar. They do this because the US Dollar has historically been very stable compared to other major currencies. If I understand Bitcoin correctly, it will be even more stable. A commodities basket currency would operate the same way. This model allows for expansion of the money supply driven by demand and demand only.


Yes! But the point is to have expansion and contraction of the money supply driven by the demand for money rather than a board of financial wizards looking into their crystal balls trying to figure out how they can hit a moving target that only exists in their imagination.


Why not? It's been suggested before, using an Open Transaction currency with Bitcoins as the backing.


Do you mean stamping a face value of Bitcoins on a gold round? I'd be all for that, but price of gold in Bitcoins will fluctuate. It'd be like the $20 gold coins that the US mint issues, which trade at the value of their gold content rather than their face value.

Definitely!

Here is a story on Ron Paul for President Coins:
http://deathby1000papercuts.blogspot.com/2007/11/ron-paul-dollars-fbi-secret-service.html


This story has a link back to coinable.com, regarding why the FBI does not raid coinable.com
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=63141


More stories:
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10390631/raid-on-ron-paul-dollar-maker.html
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/fbi-raids-crackpot-ron-paul-dollar-scam

The interesting thing about Bitcoins is that the overall tendency of the currency is going to increase in value relative to other currencies over time, including gold.  What I'm saying is that even if the value of the "gold bitcion" is technically worth more than the current exchange rate with the U.S. dollar to Bitcoin rate, there is strong reason to think that will change and be more favorable to the value of a Bitcion.  Buying such "gold bitcoins" might be an interesting statement of trust that the situation I'm suggesting here is very likely going to be reality.

The real trick would be if somebody gave this "trusted authority" some of those "gold bitcions" and that trusted authority couldn't redeem them for the electronic bitcions.  Of course that would result in a run on that "currency" too or like what was called a bank panic from a century ago.

I'd be curious about how you would stop "counterfeiting" of coins, even solid gold coins in this sort of a situation?  You might rely upon the legal system to protect you, but I think you might find that backfiring on you as well if you tried, particularly as government usually guard the ability to coin metal as an exclusive right for themselves.

The same way current currency issuers do: update their design using cutting edge technology and destroy old tokens as they can get their hands on it. As far as counterfeiting gold rounds; who cares as long as they are real gold? What's stamped on the face of a gold coin only matters in that it is a mint's brand and tells users that it is what it says it is, gold. Outside of that you can stamp whatever you want on the gold coin. Stamp BTC 1,000,000,000,000 on it and it will still trade at the value of its gold content.

I could envision a government getting feisty about this. Technically, I think you can stay out of their way if you

• Stay away from calling it "money"
• Don't even make it remotely look like any government's currency
• Don't distribute it via multi level marketing scams like Liberty Dollar
• Don't make it a political statement and just stick to quietly issuing tokens and making the market for them

I don't claim to have the resources to implement this project. But it would be awesome if someone took it on!

Wasn't somebody on this forum already selling some gold coins for bitcoin, just without the logo ?

If not, someone should be.

Sure, no problem. Maples shipped within Canada or USA. BTC accepted.

There are three gold coin mints in Nanaimo. It's no big deal to have custom short runs produced.

It's not cheap though.

Why not Maples?

I agree. Stick with established bullion and government issued gold and silver coins. Unless you have a ton of money burning a hole in your pocket.

Don't you think it would be better to leave the government out of this? After all, they are the enemy and the reason we had to invent Bitcoin in the first place.

I used to sell a lot of these;
http://lynncoins.com/1gramjohnsonmatthey.jpg

They look nice and were cheap, only ~$3 premium back then. My wife had rings and necklaces made up that were pretty cool.

There are lots of other options though.

You're my kind of guy.

Challenge coins: $2.72 each, shiny gold plated

http://www.coinable.com

It sounds like there is a lot of interest in coins.

Is there an option to buy generic coins in bulk (thus preventing the die fee), to be later pressure engraved? What kinds of metal would best fit this?

Also, do you have some reseller on Europe, to avoid the extra customs taxes and delays?

I imagine there are set up costs for designing such a coin, cutting the original die, etc. Is it $2.72 each after these costs?

With any kind of plating, how recoverable is the precious metal (separating it from the brass?) How much gold, exactly, would plate the coin?

What are your prices for .999 gold and silver rounds (including set up, minimum order of 100, I imagine?)

Thanks for being helpful!

*** Edited to Add***

I just found your pricing page. I clicked on your quote page thinking that's where I'd find this info and couldn't find it at first.

CHALLENGE COINS
http://coinable.com/challenge_coin_pricing_1.56_inch.html

100 - challenge coins, made from solid brass, then shiny gold plated, not with real gold.

1.56 inch (40mm) x 3mm thick challenge coin

Die fee: $210.00
Per coin price: $2.72

Add: $4.00 each for 24K gold plating - gold plating is .001" thick, not sure if you can recover much gold.....

__________________________________________
http://coinable.com/challenge_coin_pricing_1.75_inch.html

100 - challenge coins, made from solid brass, then shiny gold plated, not with real gold.

1.75 inch (44mm) x 3mm thick challenge coin

Die fee: $250.00
Per coin price: $3.27

Add: $4.00 each for 24K gold plating

__________________________________________
http://coinable.com/challenge_coin_pricing_2_inch.html

100 - challenge coins, made from solid brass, then shiny gold plated, not with real gold.

2 inch (51mm) x 3mm thick challenge coin

Die fee: $280.00
Per coin price: $3.42

Add: $4.00 each for 24K gold plating
_______________________________________________________

PRECIOUS METAL COINS
http://coinable.com/precious_metal_coins.html


100 - .999 FINE silver (solid)
39mm
Die fee: $2400-$3000
Per coin: SPOT + production charge
                        Proof: $20.50
                        Proof like: $13.75
                        Business Strike: $12.50
                        Satin: $13.75
                        Bullion Strike: $4.50

http://www.kitco.com/market/ - SPOT price

100 - 24K gold (solid)
39mm
Die fee: $2400-$3000
Per coin: SPOT + production charge
                        Proof: $30.50
                        Proof like: $23.75
                        Business Strike: $22.50

You can use the same die for precious metal for gold or silver, challenge coin dies cannot produce coins in precious metals. Precious metal coins will be USA made. Challenge coins are produced in China.

Coinguy, how many coins can a die strike before it is worn out?

That depends upon how rough you are willing to accept the product. 

If a die wears out we replace at no charge.

Total die strikes varies, anything can happen after the first strike.

I am unable to edit the post I made above.

Challenge coins 1.56 inch = 1.1 oz.
39mm .999 FINE Silver Round = 1 Troy ounce
39mm 24K Gold Round = 1 Troy ounce

1 troy ounce = 1.09714286 ounces