Bitcoin Forum

SegWit2x developers and miners are not backing down from their intention to hardfork in November, while the upcoming update for Bitcoin Core client will be automatically disconnecting SegWit2x nodes.
The possibility of chain split looks very high, which raises a few questions.

How exchanges will be naming Bitcoin chains after split - will they name one as a Bitcoin, or rename both to something like Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin2x?

What will be the prices for those coins? How their value will change after a few months?

Will combined value of both coins increase or decrease?

Nobody knows.
The only thing that is certain is that it will be one big cluster f*ck!

Another split? probably it will happen as with Bitcoin Cash. A good name would be just segwit2xcoin.

I am beginning to think people like to produce split in order to create opportunities to earn a little from the forked coin, rather than to seriously produce an alternative.

in my honest opinion,everything will be same like what they did before.
look at it back when the chain split,everbody buying Bitcoin in order to get an airdrop from the split.
afterwards,people starting to sell the airdrop aka Bitcoin Cash to buy more Bitcoin.
So,what will happen in the next chain split again ?
i guess we will see something like this again,hopefully it will because no matter what will happen as long Bitcoin price surge and rise.
everything is will be fine,
and i don't care about other coin from the splitting.no only me obviously many people will think same like me

I well and truly do not believe there'll be a split. 2X will turn out to have enough flaws for the NYA folk to reject it. Even if there aren't enough genuine flaws Core'll probably FUD it up enough to turn people off.

When the Segwit2x project was announced, it was very clear what their intention was in this respect. They called their implementation "BTC1" for a reason: they want/expect exchanges to refer to the legacy chain as BTC2.


It's impossible to predict future demand. We can really only look to social media activity, businesses reacting to their customers' demands, the stance of Core developers and miner signalling as any indication. Everything points to one thing: major controversy. We all have incentive to remain a cohesive network, but that may not overcome the push towards a permanent fork here.


If Metcalfe's law is correct, then the value of each network will drop in a permanent split, since the users of the original network will split/diverge. In theory, this means that the value of both coins (combined) should decrease. However, markets are inefficient, and these markets are very illiquid.

I wouldn't make any major bets before the fork (should the fork happen). Although I strongly believe in smaller block sizes and fully support Core, I will let the market decide, holding coins on both forks.

Segwit2x seems to have much more support than the outlier that was BCH, which means that I wouldn't be so sure about which chain emerges as the "true" Bitcoin in the end, ie. the one with the highest adoption rate. I personally will probably keep holding both coins, since while I trust the core devs more the 2x approach still appears to have its merits (or rather: Apart from the questionably short development cycle I haven't heard an argument against 2x that fully convinced me).

All this leads me to the conclusion that shit will be fucked. I assume that after the fork both coins will be pretty close to parity with core segwit having a slight edge. The fiat markets won't be able to support both coins at their pre-fork price level, leading to a crash of both and possibly the start of a prolonged bear market until the dust has settled. Short to mid-terms the combined fiat value will be less than before the fork. Long term the combined fiat value will be higher, because crypto always wins.

I honestly hope a serious hardfork (close to 50% of miners switching chains) can be avoided one way or another (either by enough 2x supporters jumping ship or by core suggesting a solid roadmap for a delayed Segwit2x deployment).

I think this will be much more complicated, because devs of SegWit2x call their coin Bitcoin, unlike Bcash who at least honestly distinguished itself from Bitcoin.

People who run online wallets will have power to decide for their users which chain is Bitcoin, and it can be huge. For example, Coinbase is a part of NYA, and in worst case scenario they will push 2x as Bitcoin and refuse to support Core chain, so suddenly all their customers will only have 2x coins.

There was a huge volatility around Jul 20th when the situation with SegWit was uncertain, and this might repeat in November.

People will stick to bitcoin, not bitcoin cash or bitcoin2x. Simply because how many business and companies that accepting bitcoin, it has real usability in various industries and being used as a medium of exchange. If another chain split will happen, bitcoin price maybe fall down to $2500 or $2000 as the lowest price, but who knows for sure. If people will get free bitcoin2x, the same thing will happen such as bitcoin cash when it was launched, it will get dumped.

segwit2x split is still can't affect the price of bitcoin core .it will only affect the block chain but not the demand of trading.The price predictions is now mainly dependent on Asian region trading mostly in Japan where it holds the majority of bitcoin trading so if Japanese signals a low volume of trading then the bitcoin price will follow but price prediction is still not below 3k IMHO.

New SegWit? I'm wandering will it appear new coin after this?
I think SegWit became a good reason for speculation. How it will affect on the price we may only guess.
As a person who cash out coins almost weekly, so I expect new growth and to see 5000$ would break up all my expectations ;D

I agree. In case there would be another fork and the resulting split then it can be following the same path as trodden by BitcoinCash (BCH). I this is already getting to be boring and making Bitcoin a little bit comedic. However, if it means that I would be getting some share of another altcoin akin to BCH then I would probably be happy with it. Once I would received my altcoin from this split then I would also immediately sell the same so it can be converted back to Bitcoin.

Isn't this wonderful that we are creating wealth not out of thin air but out of splits? So aside from the rising value of the original Bitcoin, we now find another way to make people rich. Maybe this is partly designed by Nakamoto so that we all can be rich overnight!

Bitcoin is really amazing! And let more splits come!

Lol for once I agree with kwukduck. This is going to be one hell of a mess with 3 different versions of bitcoins that who knows what to stick with and you may end up closing the wrong chain and get screwed. God I hate forks. Too many decisions.

Nothing bad happened after the BCC split, in fact the price increased and we even got free coins.

So I guess there will be nothing bad in a SegWit2x fork, and we will have more free coins to hold.

So, I dont think theres reason to panic anymore.

I just want to know... will we have another dip? And when? And how much? I'm more confident in bitcoin future now, I think it will be bright, I think it will be great. Just want to buy more before we can skyrocket to 10k at the end of this year.

Bitcoin survived a fork, surely it will survive another one.

Will be just like with Bitcoin cash.The name they will give to the new coin doesn't matter.

Some exchanges will allow you to get the fork coin, other doesn't, move everything to cold storage and buy some popcorn for the pre fork FUD, and see nothing happening in the day.

Exactly. That's why this is so contentious. Miners, exchanges, services are broadly on board with the November fork. Although I will say, judging by the Bitcoin Cash fork, we may see several prominent exchanges and wallets offering users a choice. That will ensure a split. Then again, any hard fork basically ensures a split.

Agreed that no matter what happens, there will be huge market uncertainty as the fork approaches. But until that general time (a couple months out), I think we'll continue rallying.

Of a truth, a split in the Bitcoin network has been long coming because the rift between BIP91 and BIP148 seems to continue unabated. We were just spared the agony of seeing our Bitcoin lose most of its value as a result of the deadlock until the day was saved by the signaling of Segwit, but it should be obvious that was only to placate and calm the market and not actually a lasting solution. Apparently the threat of a split is still very much in the air because there is not yet a consensus on 1MB or 2MB blocksize.

At any rate, it is nothing to get people panicking one more time, I personally would be looking forward to the buying opportunity that would create, because so many Bitcoin enthusiasts can't pass up any opportunity to mop up extra coins out there at a cheaper rate.

I do not want this to happen. Me and many friends here want the bitcoin that exist today. Do not change because we are very comfortable using bitcoin here. This change could be messing up everything because bitcoin prices can be very uncontrollable. For me this change can destroy bitcoin as the most popular digital currency today.

There certainly will be if the present percentage of miners pushes it through. Corecoin would have to change PoW to stand a chance of being usable. It would slow to a crawl if it lost that much mining power.

What is the point of segwit2x after Bitcoin Cash? AFAIK, everything they wanted to put into practice is already there.

Exactly. The main difference with BCH is that Bitmain starting mining it right off the bat (because it's their altcoin). Whoever mines this old version of bitcoin will get kind of screwed in the end, as it'll be worthless. There's no point in hanging onto old tech at this point.

I think leave it as it is not a good idea. What has become of bitcoin? You consider it a currency? Then you need to spend or earn. Wear signatures is good but it is a promotion and not earnings. The Internet even equipment for mining bitcoins is difficult to buy for coins. Definitely need to change the situation. Just need to be able to negotiate and to prevent the creation of monopolies. If you remain everything as it is a dead end.

SW entails a lot more than extra capacity for transaction volume...

believers nor those who only wants to take advantage are those who's still mining this coin so we can't be assured what will be the
future of this coin bitcoin already gain popularity so nothing will stop or replace it for now.

I don't think the situation of the BTC/2X fork is as clear as the situation of the BTC/BCC fork.

Also note that we're looking at different interest groups.

BCH caters to big-block purists, who don't want segwit at all and have the opinion that on-chain scaling is sufficient. 2X caters to people that do want segwit, yet have the opinion that segwit alone is not sufficient, making an additional blocksize increase necessary. One might also argue that 2X tries to be the unifying proposition by making a compromise between both sides of the blockchain debate, which may be interesting in itself.

There's a common misconception that this is a debate only about scaling, while actually the major point of disagreement is security. Core is not arguing that bigger blocks, and especially bigger blocks with SegWit would quickly boost Bitcoin's capacity and lower fees for some time, but they believe that this will dramatically reduce number of full nodes, making Bitcoin less decentralized and secure. Small number of full nodes will make Bitcoin weak to government attempts to shut it down as well as different kinds of double-spending attacks.

Ironically both sides claim that the other side's approach is less secure and would endanger decentralization. From what I've read the main arguments by Core against Segwitx2 were less about the blocksize (the increase being less extreme than BCH or unlimited), but rather about the development, testing and deployment approach (eg. little being known about the intricacies of hardforks, too close a deployment date, non-existent or questionable replay-protection). I might be wrong though, maybe even a relatively conservative block increase to a total of 4mb (2mb + 2mb segwit) is already seen as problematic in itself.

Indeed. The BCC chain had so little hash power (and accounted for it with the emergency difficulty readjustment) that it was widely viewed as an altcoin. The November fork may test the premise of whether any hard fork is an altcoin in the eyes of most of the network. And if miners decide to hard fork to 2x (or 8x as the case may be), then we may have two altcoins -- Core (POW change fork) and Segwit2x. What a shitshow that would be...

This debate seems will never end regards bitcoin scale solution, and if segwit2x really force 2Mb hard fork and chain split happen, then its name should be different from just "Bitcoin", so people will recognize it and hopefully we could get another free coin. Well, we do know what will happen with free coin on arrival when exchanges allows it being traded. BItcoin may fall to $3000 - $2200 as the lowest price.

In the worst case (unlike with Bitcoin Cash), there could be great contention about which coin is Bitcoin after the November fork. I think it's difficult to argue that legacy Bitcoin could be anything but Bitcoin. But there are massive business interests (wallets, exchanges, services, miners, mining chip producers and even GBTC's creator) backing Segwit2x. They have a lot of pull from a PR standpoint, and they have a lot of money to market their coin.

Interestingly, the implementation is called "BTC1." I wonder why that is? :P

I do not think the exchanges are going to rename the original coin in any way or form, bitcoin is just bitcoin and that is never going to change, the ones that need remaining are the altcoins based on bitcoin, personally I will prefer B2X for the name of the coin or its symbol because after a hard fork that coin is no longer bitcoin but something else, an altcoin.

Bitfury is already having second thoughts about the New York Agreement. You will see the first mining camps start defecting from the agreement after segwit locks in.

In any case, it's irrelevant. Whales will dump on GarzikCoin, killing the price and thus forcing them to go back to mining the legacy chain. GarzikCoin doesn't stand a chance and will become another dumb altcoin, and everyone involved will be forever hated because they will be responsible of crashing the price in the middle of an all time high for no reason other than rushing a hardfork for an unnecessary blocksize increase while putting Jeff Garzik, someone that works in a blockchain spying tool, in charge.

I think that if Core is resolute about opposing the November fork, that there will be many defectors from the NYA agreement. I don't think anyone really wants a big network split, so if some major signatories back out, we could see a major pushback against the entire Segwit2x plan.

On the other hand, we could have the forces of major miners / chip producers like Bitmain and major businesses who want cheap on-chain fees (like Bitpay) pushing for a fork. It'll be interesting to see what happens as we approach November.

Let's just wait I see. Im sure miners will defect from the NYA agreement, Bitfury will be one of the first, and once one deffects, other will follow.

A lot of people have learned a lesson with the Bitcoin Cash disaster. Everyone that got involved in mining Bitcoin Cash has lost millions compared to if they kept missing the legacy chain.

Everyone involved in segwit2x will be responsible for the price crash. Imagine the amount of hate Barry Silbert,  Erik Voorhees, Jeff Garzik etc will get. Let's just wait and see what happens after august 23th.

It's a game of chicken, except on the very day the agreement was announced some of the people who agreed to it said that they kinda hadn't so they're already halfway out the door.

If they felt that way on the day, their confidence in it certainly won't have grown as time passes. The Segwit bit was simple enough. The other bit, rather less so.

This y would not do that for ever. Renaming a bitcoin's name will destroy the reputation and some people heard a but would not consider this a btc in future. We need to think in all the view.
Since segwit has activated this time, bitcoin value has been increased more than 1000$, I expect it will touch next peak value again when we are peak value now.

I don't think that those people from NYA are going to care about the hate, but it's likely that miners will back off from 2x fork, maybe not all, but at least half, probably. The real Bitcoin, developed by Core is very valuable, and this conspiracy to replace Core will sure crash the price, if it will have significant support from miners and companies. Mining Bitcoin will be less profitable, and mining 2x chain will be even worse, so why should miners fork if they are not gaining anything from it? Larger blocks would sure help those companies and miners, but the effect of price crash will outweigh any gains by a huge margin.

95% that 2x hardfork will not happen!
It would just be another altcoin, like bcash! And right now with this massive pump it is obvious that the market want Segwit and core with it's huge pool of amazing developers to continue this journey.
It the dummies of NYA fork they will be left alone and no one following them.Furthermore these guys will lose lots credibility in this space and if they should try to come back after the hardfork failure I can assure the community will not give them any chance to continue with their businesses or even building new ones and supporting those.
You try to fool the userbase, therefore the majority of the community which give Bitcoin it's value, you're going to lose. This whole Bitcoin community it so much anti authoritarien, every attempt to break that space and take control of the protocol, will break you in the end.

Unless 2x devs give in or postpone the hardfork, it's gonna happen. Whether 2x will be a relevant alternative to BTC or even a replacement of it is a different question. However I doubt that the "dummies of NYA" will lose their credibility and customers that easily, even if 2x ends up being BCH's step brother. These "dummies" include some of the most important companies in crypto. You'll be hard pressed to avoid using them. They'd be stupid to not have some form of contingency plan.

Either way it will be interesting to see how the 2x supporting companies will handle the controversy. It's a business after all and people vote with their wallets, especially in crypto.

here's another innovation from Blockstream using satellite to beam bitcoin transaction to any part of the world including the areas where internet is rarely accessible thus avoiding chainsplit where network nodes and data congestion causes the delay of transactions. Blockstream is offering a Sidechain proposal.
Sidechains are extensions to existing blockchains, enhancing their privacy and functionality by adding features like smart contracts and confidential transactions.So chainsplit is unlikely to happen.

It was easy to predict what would happen after the Bitcoin / Bitcoin Cash split. Because most of the users, exchanges and the developers were against Bitcoin Cash. But it will be difficult to predict about the split in November. We are still unsure about the level of support for Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin 2x. I want Bitcoin 2x to prevail in the end, but things are very fuzzy.

If it forks again you will have 2 coins, and it doesn't really matter which one ends up with more value because you will have one of each. Holding as many btc as you can at the split seems to me the best course.

We already saw what happened with bitcoin in cash. Do you think the miners and users are fools? They do not want to lose their money. I don't believe in another division. Agree and there will be a single bitcoin with improved quality, but perhaps the miners try to recoup their losses by raising fees for transactions.

I understand your mean, however if the value of Bitcoin continue rising up until last this year, and the problem high fees still can't fixed, really need have fork for fix this problem.

Maybe you misread my post but you are arguing against me when we hold the same opinion, the name of bitcoin cannot ever change it is the brand to put it another way, if an altcoin based on bitcoin is created they cannot expect to receive the name since they are the ones forking its path that is why I suggest that if the 2MB fork happens the coins should not have bitcoin on its name since it is no longer bitcoin.

i read some article regarding this and they're saying that it won't affect the bitcoin price because people just shock on split that's why they sell their bitcoin that's the reason why bitcoin price fell down but when they notice that bitcoin won't be affected on the split they decided to buy bitcoin again that's why bitcoin price today was $4k because the demand is raising also.

This happened at the beginning of august. At that time many people who said that bitcoin prices will experience a significant decrease, but in fact bitcoin prices actually experienced a very high increase. So there is no benchmark that can read the bitcoin price movement. Things can happen, but if demand and bitcoin users are increasing then I'm sure bitcoin prices will get better.

Well maybe it will affect in a good way just like what happen to this soft fork maybe most people already learned about what happen last Aug 1 and they will not do the same mistakes again, lots of speculation though but let's just wait and see it with own eyes if what change it will be done with bitcoin value and services.

hard fork will not kill bitcoin ,so calm down ,we will get another coin just as BCH

I still think that bitcoin is going to prevail, it seems most of the users are still aligned with the vision of the core team of developers, so at the end it does not matter the amount of hash power and money that segwit2x has if the customers are not moving to this new coin with them then they will have to return to the original bitcoin and I think that is what is going to happen.

november fork will not give u any new coin, it's replay protected (if i understood it correctly)

Haha, he thinks we will receive new coin like SegWit in August, do that just make the faith of investor and trader in Bitcoin decrease more. Because they will understand very easy for create new "Bitcoin" and the value of it very high, different from the original definition.

Replay protection means that chains are separated, like BTC and BCH. SegWit2x won't have it, so when you spend BTC or 2x coin, the same transaction might be broadcasted to the other chain. Although recently Jeff Garzik said he will add optional replay protection, so we might be able to spend forked coins without losing BTC. There are also methods to split your coins by yourself, by sending locked transactions, adjusting fees or using freshly mined coins. But dealing with 2x coin will probably be harder and riskier than BCH, so even fewer people will be dumping them while preserving their BTC.

The hard fork that is coming does not have the strength to kill bitcoin but I have no doubt that if the fork does comes to happen this is going to affect the price in a deep way since most miners are backing this new coin and if all of them move to this new coin then that could make bitcoin confirmations very slow for a very long time until the difficulty gets adjusted.

There's multiple possibilities if a super majority of miners continues backing Segwit2x and moves forward with the hard fork. Many supporters of legacy BTC have maintained that difficulty will eventually readjust on the legacy chain, even if the hash rate drops significantly. That's not necessarily true. It's entirely possible, if the vast majority of miners switch to Segwit2x, that difficulty will never readjust on the legacy chain.

In that case, those who do not wish to migrate to Segwit2x may be forced to switch to a hard fork of their own-- one which either has an emergency difficulty drop to get the network stable again, or a POW algorithm change.

That's the worst case scenario: a dead legacy chain and two altcoins.......

https://www.coindesk.com/f2pool-reneges-mining-pool-pulls-segwit2x-support-hard-fork/

The potential beginning of the end of forkageddon. If it was from someone a tad less trollish it would be more reassuring, but between now and November I believe more people will fall away even if this statement is a lark.

I seriously hope that now the Antgang have their Bitcoin Cash to focus on, that they will point less priority to the 2MB hard fork that they were initially agreeing with.

As we speak, there is absolutely no need for that fork to kick in. Once SegWit usage starts to pick up, and far more transactions start fitting in the same 1MB blocks, even the big blockers must realize that a fork isn't needed.

If there happens to be a chain split, it will once again be something that has only one motive, and that's the greed factor that plays an important role. Greed so strong, that they don't care when Bitcoin might potentially suffer.

It's beyond insane how miners have reached such a hostile ideology. I expect a heavy load of trolling and fud to happen in the runup to the date this fork is supposed to happen. :-X

One thing to consider, here. If it turns out in the next couple months that Bitcoin Cash isn't viable (e.g. demand dries up, value plummets, and it becomes unprofitable to mine), then they will be pushing for another hard fork.


The bolded is exactly what they're trying to capitalize on with all the network spam and FUD about Bitcoin Cash recently. And they're not alone. Bitpay just started charging a network fee on top of the invoice amount. I just paid an extra 0.000686 BTC. I don't know when this started, but it was within the last month and this information page was posted 3 days ago: https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002990803-Why-Am-I-Being-Charged-an-Additional-Network-Cost-on-My-BitPay-Invoice-

Who are the developers behind Segwitx2?

Now it looks more and more like SegWit2x fork is falling apart and will be very similar to BCH in execution - mining for the sake of difficulty manipulation and quick profit. This will require some exchanges to accept B2X coins, otherwise no one will mine them, which means that SegWit2x devs will have to install replay protection - no one is that crazy to seriously switch to B2X and treat it as if it was Bitcoin. If there won't be any replay protection, miners would risk to waste their power on useless coin. This leads to next predictions: if replay protections will be introduced, we can expect to see some 30-60% switching to B2X at least for short term; if there will be no protection, this number will be much lower, around 10-30%. In both scenarios, Bitcoin shouldn't suffer much, worst case we'll drop 25% and than recover in a few days to previous levels.

You seem very optimistic. How about a 51% attack with a super majority of miners? That's what a hard fork with no replay protection is. Between SPV wallets and exchanges like Coinbase and services like Bitpay, most Bitcoin users would be following the hard fork chain.

After all, most Bitcoin users do not run a full node; they default to a service (like the many signed onto the NYA) or they run a non-validating node. If it comes down to a super majority of miners and no replay protection, we are facing a very messy situation. :-\

My strategy will be very clear: hold bitcoin for the split and wait for the airdrop.

Then wait till the dust will be settled down then see which side I will pick.

I highly doubt that combined value will be much lower after some time.

funny.... but fyi there will be no airdrop....

You can read the first paragraph from this article.
https://medium.com/@jimmysong/segwit2x-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-2mb-hard-fork-27749e1544ce

That already explained about the history and purpose of the segwit 2x and it seems to be a reliable information.

The segwit 2x will give the more improvement to the bitcoin.

51% attack means attacker is mining valid blocks with malicious intent - either a chain reorg to make a double spending or mining empty blocks to stop the network. This means that even full nodes are affected by it, while with hard fork full nodes just reject invalid blocks. SPV clients, if configured properly, also detect chain splits. Online services hold the power to decide for their users what chain to follow, which can be very damaging to either chain, but big exchanges would quickly suffer legal consequences if they'll try to force unwanted chain on their users. So, this kind of attack by hard fork is not as scary as it may sound, and it's definitely not the same as 51% attack.

Wow thanks for the great info, then that means that the hard fork possibly coming in November does have the capacity to damage or even destroy bitcoin, not even in my wildest dreams I would have thought of that, it is like a nightmare that something like bitcoin that we have been waiting for a long time can be killed by the greed of the miners.

Remember, miners are heavily invested stakeholders. They have entrenched interests, so they will flex their muscles if different protocol changes will affect their prospective incomes.

However, they are also heavily invested in Bitcoin's success. I don't think many miners (if any) mine simply to dump for current market prices. They only sell to cover overhead and otherwise are investing for the long term.

So, miners don't want a split. The scenario above is a worst-case scenario. But it's also one that some Bitcoin developers (like Luke Dash Jr.) are already prepare for, code-wise. The problem is that no one can predict future demand for either chain. So if miners charge forward with a hard fork with bad information about user demand, they could end up causing a messy network split.