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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: johk02 on August 12, 2017, 04:56:26 AM



Title: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: johk02 on August 12, 2017, 04:56:26 AM
Hi,

If I understand it correctly Ripple proposition is to tackle the issue with large scale transaction volumes.
Now when Bitcoin themselves are looking into theses issues - > that this suggest that Ripple might loose its edge?

JH


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: pawanjain on August 12, 2017, 05:06:12 AM
My opinion is double minded. Ripple wont lose its edge because its partnering with banks and helping banks to make the transaction faster. So Ripple has its value there and can rise up in future and i think it has the potential and thats why its the third position in the coinmarketcap list. But i feel a little down when i see Ripple losing it value day by day . Its price has come to half in just in a month and i feel horrible for this as i have invested some in Ripple.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: SonyEricSon on August 12, 2017, 05:10:41 AM
The supply of ripple is too much, so I'm sure this coin will not go up too much, 100 billion is a crazy supply, they have to put up a lot of money to pump this coin


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: wonkacoin on August 12, 2017, 05:11:52 AM
I feel Ripple is still a good coin. It is by far still the fastest coin transactions I have ever had. I also see many other coins like Sia, and DGB falling in price as well.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: styca on August 12, 2017, 06:17:04 AM
Hi,

If I understand it correctly Ripple proposition is to tackle the issue with large scale transaction volumes.
Now when Bitcoin themselves are looking into theses issues - > that this suggest that Ripple might loose its edge?

JH


Bitcoin is not a competitor for Ripple. Ripple's target market is international cross-currency banking transfers. Their prospects in my opinion are extremely good. Their tech is unmatched, and at present they have no real competitors. There is absolutely no way that bitcoin could move into this space.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: peter12281 on August 12, 2017, 06:33:07 AM
Considering the cost of a single coin, the supply looks normal to me, ethereum doesn't have a hard cap but they seem fine.
Total supply won't be distributed before a long long time probably decades and decreasing with XRP destroyed during each transaction.



Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: styca on August 12, 2017, 07:03:47 AM
Ripple losing it value day by day . Its price has come to half in just in a month and i feel horrible for this as i have invested some in Ripple.

Don't worry about current price, it doesn't matter. Once Ripple/XRP becomes the industry standard, the price will be vastly higher than it is today. Orders of magnitude higher.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: SonOfNorth on August 12, 2017, 07:56:37 AM
You have to quickly sell it

LOL, how about no. Unless you're in for tens of thousands that you could use for more profitable ventures, just ride it until the end. Either it'll all just die off, or you'll make it big. Ride or die.

I have some XRP myself, but I'm not really sure it'll become anything. Sure the tech is good and could have some uses, but the currency on top of it seems totally pointless. I'm hoping, but I'm very doubtful.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: ðºÞæ on August 12, 2017, 08:15:45 AM
Considering the cost of a single coin, the supply looks normal to me, ethereum doesn't have a hard cap but they seem fine.
Total supply won't be distributed before a long long time probably decades and decreasing with XRP destroyed during each transaction.



With the same distribution timeframe than Bitcoin (123 years) 24 Million xrp should be sold every single day only about 1.2 Million is sold. The less sold at lower price the bigger the problem later.
https://i.imgur.com/SKoTAjw.png https://i.imgur.com/GAAHVDj.png



Banks business is to charge fees not pay them.

Singapore’s central bank (MAS) and
•   Bank of America Merrill Lynch
•   BCS Information Systems
•  Credit Suisse
•   DBS Bank Ltd
•  The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited
•   J.P. Morgan
•  Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group
•  OCBC Bank
•  R3
•  Singapore Exchange
•  United Overseas Bank

got together and decided to copy past xrp and build the own Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) Database that is spread across multiple sites, countries or institutions.

Banks where never using xrp in first place, some have a working agreement with Ripple. From a technical standpoint a single xrp works just as well as billions.

Link direct to Singapore Central Bank
http://www.mas.gov.sg/~/media/ProjectUbin/Project Ubin SGD on Distributed Ledger.pdf  Secondary (same pdf). Project Ubin SGD on Distributed Ledger.pdf (https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/sg/Documents/financial-services/sg-fsi-project-ubin-report.pdf)


Notice the heart "Ubin".
https://i.imgur.com/DSc8TZn.png


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Herlina on August 12, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
The supply of ripple is too much, so I'm sure this coin will not go up too much, 100 billion is a crazy supply, they have to put up a lot of money to pump this coin

in my opinion ripple supply is still reasonable,
because, ripple network requires a minimum of 20 XRP to be in any active address.
cost 20 XRP per user that keeps the wallet active.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: cozytrade on August 12, 2017, 09:37:57 AM
Ripple is my favourite coin in month of april hehehe. I've make a wonderfull high profit amoun in this coin. Suffered a lot of time of waiting to pump this coin now hehehe and still holding


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: peter12281 on August 12, 2017, 09:47:22 AM
about the guy who post huge pictures, I saw your post in speculation subforum, really looks like spam at this point. I don't think anyone understand what you're saying (24 million a day would mean total supply distributed in a few years not 123 years).
Anyway, personally I'm happy if the supply takes a long time do be distributed and inflation rate is very low.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: ZZ8ZZ on August 12, 2017, 09:50:35 AM
Idk how people expect Ripple to hit $1 I mean ... wtf it'll be always in the 0.10 - 0.30 range j.k.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: dobolspeed2 on August 12, 2017, 09:58:17 AM
My opinion is double minded. Ripple wont lose its edge because its partnering with banks and helping banks to make the transaction faster. So Ripple has its value there and can rise up in future and i think it has the potential and thats why its the third position in the coinmarketcap list. But i feel a little down when i see Ripple losing it value day by day . Its price has come to half in just in a month and i feel horrible for this as i have invested some in Ripple.

Yes, I really agree with you by talking about the transfer speed, I think ripple is one of the coins that deserve to be a future investment. I hope the ripple condition that is currently not good can be good again as time goes on.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: hase0278 on August 12, 2017, 10:17:30 AM
Hi,

If I understand it correctly Ripple proposition is to tackle the issue with large scale transaction volumes.
Now when Bitcoin themselves are looking into theses issues - > that this suggest that Ripple might loose its edge?

JH

Even if bitcoin scaled OP, I think ripple would still have a value of its own. Now that bitcoin is scaled, transaction speed is just right in my opinion but not fast. Many people likes faster transactions and that is where ripple will come in to use. Therefore ripple can still be viable in the future who knows maybe it will be the next coin to have a huge pump.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: BTCwriter on August 12, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
The owners of Ripple have so much tokens to sell or releasing,  no reason to hold it for long term.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: peter12281 on August 12, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
But what about ethereum with no hard cap at all then.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: ðºÞæ on August 12, 2017, 11:39:24 AM
about the guy who post huge pictures, I saw your post in speculation subforum, really looks like spam at this point. I don't think anyone understand what you're saying (24 million a day would mean total supply distributed in a few years not 123 years).
Anyway, personally I'm happy if the supply takes a long time do be distributed and inflation rate is very low.

You are exactly the kind of guy the Ripple investor invested in. Picture perfect XRP "investor".

Here is the simplified Kindergarten version.
Bitcoins supply halves every 4 years, and 4.5 Million still need mining-selling for the work done.
Are you still with me, good, lets move on.
Lets assume we have 1023 units and need disturbing in the next 10 days
Bitcoin goes about releasing 512 today 256 tomorrow and 128 the day after and so on. On the last day 1
512
256
128
64
32
16
8
4
2
1
------
1023

With 61 Billion XRP still looking for a buyer using Bitcoins release schedule would mean 24 Million XRP must be sold every day and not 1 Million as it happens now
If today is only 1 sold total remaining is 1022 xrp.  As Bitcoin has sold 512 today total remaining is 511

If 512 can sell at todays price how much will 256 sell for tomorrow?
To create a Bitcoin is not free that gives it value. No such thing money for nothing.

XRP is provable not a Blockchain technology it is a Distributed Database. Worlds apart, well 50 years of technology advancements.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: BigBoy89 on August 12, 2017, 12:01:05 PM
I don't like Ripple for few reasons: It's "The banking" coin and devs have a way too many coins to drop off.

In past few months XRP already lost 66% of it's value and I don't see a reason to goes up. My guess is that Ripple is slowly going to its Jan level of around 1000 satoshi.

It's not viable.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Hyuiguia on August 12, 2017, 12:07:08 PM
riple still good coin with complete feature
i think next time if bitcoin price down, riple price can incraese to 7k - 10k satoshi
if you want buy ripple is good with price 2k - 3k satoshi


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: YS84 on August 12, 2017, 12:07:38 PM
I don’t think that will happen. Ripple has secure and fast transactions and more efficient. But if bitcoin looking into these issues I don’t think ripple might loss. Because both have many differences. If both are decentralized, biotin is a decentralized digital currency and ripple is a decentralized transaction network that contains a digital currency XRP. Also ripple network can track information of any existing currency. Ripple are awarded through an iterative consensus process instead of mining. I hope that I made clear.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: peter12281 on August 12, 2017, 12:13:42 PM
Here is the simplified Kindergarten version.

I understood your post the first time, no need to repost. I'm telling you it would make no sense to have a huge inflation rate for a few years and I'm rather happy if the total supply takes a long time do be distributed and inflation rate is very low.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: namini on August 12, 2017, 12:27:31 PM
I don't like Ripple for few reasons: It's "The banking" coin and devs have a way too many coins to drop off.

In past few months XRP already lost 66% of it's value and I don't see a reason to goes up. My guess is that Ripple is slowly going to its Jan level of around 1000 satoshi.

It's not viable.

People here don't like Ripple (for whatever reason) that's a fact, now I would keep an eye on Ripple, they're keeping quiet, but they're working hard behind the scene:
https://twitter.com/emy_wng/status/895737169884479488


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: digaran on August 12, 2017, 08:06:39 PM
Can we mine Ripple? no. could we create Ripple's clones? yes. if Ripple is designed for banks then what are we doing here? nothing other than following the others like sheep. tell me how could I obtain Ripple without buying from exchanges? why would I pay for something that has no governance, and there are no guarantees whether or not every banking company worldwide to adopt it, because every company could launch and use their own decentralized blockchain.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: cryptodollar on August 12, 2017, 09:17:20 PM
Riiiiiple in still water...
I always loved this one, thought it was a Grateful Dead coin for a while.
Never made any money on it.
Held it for a very long time and shook it off just before it went up like 1000%.

I don't know.. don't really care.
Let there be songs.. to fill the air.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: dounfer on August 12, 2017, 09:24:23 PM
viable yes. but not now.. nothing big about ripple that stands out.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: guesswhat on August 12, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
I don't like Ripple for few reasons: It's "The banking" coin and devs have a way too many coins to drop off.

In past few months XRP already lost 66% of it's value and I don't see a reason to goes up. My guess is that Ripple is slowly going to its Jan level of around 1000 satoshi.

It's not viable.


I bought some ripple 5 months ago and I couldn't hold those chep ones and I sold them with 15% profit. This is very sad. I admire you guys who are still holding those cheap ripples.

For the banking news, they speculated around the acceptance of ripple in the global banking system, yet there is no constructive step.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: McWorse on August 12, 2017, 10:20:53 PM
Can we mine Ripple? no. could we create Ripple's clones? yes. if Ripple is designed for banks then what are we doing here? nothing other than following the others like sheep. tell me how could I obtain Ripple without buying from exchanges? why would I pay for something that has no governance, and there are no guarantees whether or not every banking company worldwide to adopt it, because every company could launch and use their own decentralized blockchain.

XRP is connecting all these chains. And it will be the gate to the people. What is the individual without a language to talk to another?
 ;)


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: itsonlikedonkeykong on August 12, 2017, 10:35:54 PM
Like it or not, XRP has a long history and is also in the top 5 of the 1000= cryptos out there today!

And it has wide distribution plus interest from a bunch of banks.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: ðºÞæ on August 12, 2017, 11:35:12 PM
Dogecoin now $0.001864
Ripples   XRP   $0.174749
Both have about the same total supply, both are a good laugh in the crypto scene, both are broken in some way and one has the bonus of having a horrendous distribution (10% of all to a single person).

https://i.imgur.com/rSdgNEK.png


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: namini on August 13, 2017, 12:44:29 AM
Still posting self-made charts I see.
Here is a chart but not self-made, source: https://coinmarketcap.com/

https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/586862charts1.png


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: UpGradeCoin on August 13, 2017, 03:15:25 AM
So much hype about Ripple, it should not even be in the top 10.

It is a stagnated coins that only swings up and down by small amounts. 

Every now and then the word "Bank" is associated with it and it spikes a bit, then gradually fades back to where it was.

Get out of Ripple now before it really takes a dive. 

If you had put your money form Ripple into Tenx a week ago you would have quadrupled it by now.

Get into TenX that actually is a working operational coin with a real world use. 


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: acpr23 on August 13, 2017, 03:21:52 AM
ripple is a long term coin, i still considered it viable but now its value keeps on decreasing, better to get out of it now then just come back when the price is going up let your money work for you.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: wxa7115 on August 13, 2017, 04:05:19 AM
Hi,

If I understand it correctly Ripple proposition is to tackle the issue with large scale transaction volumes.
Now when Bitcoin themselves are looking into theses issues - > that this suggest that Ripple might loose its edge?

JH

Ripple is a good coin but as you can see bitcoin is finally making some moves to get the issue resolved so it is natural that ripple is going to take a hit but at the same time you need to understand that when a coin loses value very rapidly it does not necessarily mean there is something in the coin, the money is flowing into bitcoin since there is a lot of action there at the moment.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: johk02 on August 13, 2017, 04:46:03 AM
Thank you for your replies.
I am leaning towards selling my Ripples for the meantime and invest elsewhere.
If Ripple starts to move I can always get back in.

JH


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: gribble on August 13, 2017, 04:54:32 AM
Thank you for your replies.
I am leaning towards selling my Ripples for the meantime and invest elsewhere.
If Ripple starts to move I can always get back in.

JH

Well if you want makes investing in digital currencies for long time couples years later
ripple is still viable today, you can buy ripple now and hold them for long time,
but if you just want search short taking profit ripple is bad because the trend of price is down now
will be more good to invest in bitcoins, ethereum or in ICOs for now.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Haesoo on August 13, 2017, 05:20:01 AM
The supply of ripple is too much, so I'm sure this coin will not go up too much, 100 billion is a crazy supply, they have to put up a lot of money to pump this coin

As ripple now is experiencing some dips doesn't means it will lose soon its value. Ripple have a good coin circulation and it have a good support.
Let's just hope ripple will recover soon, don't panic brother.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Filmmmakerr on August 13, 2017, 07:21:53 AM
When the Japanese banks start using ripple the price will tank.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Getmon on August 13, 2017, 07:49:40 AM
My opinion is double minded. Ripple wont lose its edge because its partnering with banks and helping banks to make the transaction faster. So Ripple has its value there and can rise up in future and i think it has the potential and thats why its the third position in the coinmarketcap list. But i feel a little down when i see Ripple losing it value day by day . Its price has come to half in just in a month and i feel horrible for this as i have invested some in Ripple.

I also look at Ripple as a trusted coin. The project is also doing great. Japanese Banks are into it as well. But the problem is really the price. I am also holding some Ripple and it is not giving me some returns. There is a large volume also. I think the trust of this coin is not translating into price hike.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Emmanueltd on August 15, 2017, 02:11:19 AM
With the backing of google and the application of XRP in life, I believe that XRP is a potential coin


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: styca on August 16, 2017, 07:10:11 PM
XRP has enormous potential. You need patience; it may take a while before the price goes up. But when it does go up, I think the increase will be huge and very rapid.
Don't look at the current price of the coin, that has very little to do with its potential. Just hold, and buy more whenever you can.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: NostradamusJones on August 16, 2017, 07:11:28 PM
Terrible potential, you should all sell, I will buy it up to help you. Because I care.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: zokora on August 16, 2017, 07:20:50 PM
yes Ripple, the company is viable. If you are talking about the currency XRP, I do not think that it is worth to buy, hold or analyze about it. It is a dead, speculative coin. No use for it.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: invest2lose on August 16, 2017, 07:37:51 PM
yes Ripple, the company is viable. If you are talking about the currency XRP, I do not think that it is worth to buy, hold or analyze about it. It is a dead, speculative coin. No use for it.

smh...no use arguing with fudsters like this i guess.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: NostradamusJones on August 16, 2017, 07:53:26 PM
So cheap right now, just grabbed some more. Watch for the turn soon. ;)


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: Nilima-Temp on August 16, 2017, 08:56:19 PM
XRP is a good coin But the main Problem of this coin is its total supply.
They out 100 Billion XRP on Marketplace which is a big supply.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: NostradamusJones on August 16, 2017, 09:24:42 PM
NEM XEM 9 billion @ 25 cents

Iota 3 billion @ .98 cents

And more money coming to this economy everyday.

EDIT PS Ripple supply is 38 billion, not 100.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: xys9ik0p on August 16, 2017, 09:51:03 PM
xrp total supply is 100 billions

39 billions in circulation

for every ten cents increase would increase market cap  by 3.9 billions dollars which is greater than what NEO worth now (2.33 b)

these pumpers keep saying price will be pump up again blab blab in reality is no room for grow


pumper already try to pump when xrp tap into japan market what happen to xrp price  down now china? it will just keep going down


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: nunosilva800 on August 16, 2017, 10:35:00 PM
yes Ripple, the company is viable. If you are talking about the currency XRP, I do not think that it is worth to buy, hold or analyze about it. It is a dead, speculative coin. No use for it.

I also think the same.
How could $XRP ever be influenced by Ripple? If someone could explain how, I'd be much appreciated.
They sell a service (a very interesting one!) to banks, that's it.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: invest2lose on August 16, 2017, 10:44:59 PM
yes Ripple, the company is viable. If you are talking about the currency XRP, I do not think that it is worth to buy, hold or analyze about it. It is a dead, speculative coin. No use for it.

I also think the same.
How could $XRP ever be influenced by Ripple? If someone could explain how, I'd be much appreciated.
They sell a service (a very interesting one!) to banks, that's it.


it's been explained too many times already. you people just don't want to read. no point in trying anymore.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: headachy on August 16, 2017, 11:42:46 PM
I think if Ripple doesn't get some good news in a few months the coin will flunk hard....never been a big fan of Ripple but that is just sad...so much people bought at 0,3+$ and I don't know if we'll see Ripple as high ever again. And even if price starts to rise again so many bagholders are going to dump it's going to have a hard time rising.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: illinest on August 16, 2017, 11:57:14 PM
yes Ripple, the company is viable. If you are talking about the currency XRP, I do not think that it is worth to buy, hold or analyze about it. It is a dead, speculative coin. No use for it.

I'm not sure if Ripple (the company) is viable in the long term. In the short to mid term (1-10 years), it doesn't matter; there is simply so much hype money flowing in. The company raised another $55 million in funding last year. So, as a pioneer in the "banking and compliance-friendly crypto" space, they were well-positioned.

However, I wonder if they will be the Myspace of centralized banking-friendly chains...


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: jojobaron on August 17, 2017, 12:28:16 AM
I hold my xrp and I think his price can high


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: nunosilva800 on August 17, 2017, 01:40:50 AM
yes Ripple, the company is viable. If you are talking about the currency XRP, I do not think that it is worth to buy, hold or analyze about it. It is a dead, speculative coin. No use for it.

I also think the same.
How could $XRP ever be influenced by Ripple? If someone could explain how, I'd be much appreciated.
They sell a service (a very interesting one!) to banks, that's it.


it's been explained too many times already. you people just don't want to read. no point in trying anymore.

I've been looking into this coin quite recently yes. But I had looked into reddit, the official websites, some blogs, twitter and even mouth to mouth discussions.
Didn't found answers. If you have a link somewhere, please share, or make it sticky :)

In an open community, newcomers will always be around.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: NostradamusJones on August 17, 2017, 03:23:54 AM
Get your facts straight. 38 in circulation. Ripple owns 50. For years they have had the option to dump, but they didn't. Why would they? Why would they devalue their own holdings, and extensive work?


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: NostradamusJones on August 17, 2017, 03:32:31 AM
Oh. I see the actual argument now. XRP services banks, and they are the enemy. Therefore Ripple is the enemy. Have fun with that.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: mootbritton7 on August 17, 2017, 05:04:23 AM
XRP is one of those coins that you buy then stash away for years. Kind of like an insurance policy of "what if" the coin value goes up. Don't even bother to check the price each day because it will drive you crazy. Matter of fact don't even check the price until 2 to 5 years from now.

I personally own nearly 20,000 XRPs and have held onto every single one.

Exactly what I'm doing too.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: helloicon on August 17, 2017, 05:12:53 AM
Considering its transaction speed, I think it still can boast its competitiveness.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: sasaku bitbit on August 17, 2017, 07:28:53 AM
I think the ripple is a company worth so they know about your currencies-XRP, this is very worthy to buy, store and analyze about it to keep it from going dead ahrus you doing speculative coins then balance will occur in trade ;)


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: chilly9876 on August 17, 2017, 08:16:56 AM
A lot of the banking industry is interested in block chain. I think at the start of 2018 we will see whether xrp sinks or swims.


Title: Re: Is ripple still viable?
Post by: illinest on August 17, 2017, 07:54:42 PM
XRP is one of those coins that you buy then stash away for years. Kind of like an insurance policy of "what if" the coin value goes up. Don't even bother to check the price each day because it will drive you crazy. Matter of fact don't even check the price until 2 to 5 years from now.

I personally own nearly 20,000 XRPs and have held onto every single one.

Exactly what I'm doing too.

It's not unreasonable to do this, but purely for speculative purposes, so you can sell to greater fools. I still don't think XRP serves any real use. You only need a very tiny amount of it to easily use the Ripple protocol forever. Considering the supply, it just doesn't have the utility (even if the Ripple user base grew 100,000x) to make it worth much of anything in practice.