Bitcoin Forum

What is the reason why people should use mixers (if they for example want do launder btc)? Never used such services but for me it seems better just buy some forks on exchange and buy bitcoins back. At least you won't get even dirtier coins than you had before.

If you use an exchange, there is a trail. Most exchanges require identity proof, especially if you trade large amounts. Mixers have no such requirements and can tumble your coins for a small fee.

Well, some exchanges don't require any proof of who you are, if the amount is small.

Some exchanges you can make up your name and email and all that and do a few thousand USD worth of trading per day. So doing that on an exchange really isn't that helpful in trying to "launder" coins.

Many people mix coins to stay anonymous though. When you do stuff on an exchange it knows who you are and if hacked people can figoure out who you are.

Sending stuff to a mixer will help avoid that for the most part, it is almost impossible to figure out who someone is from mixing.

Boom. Here is your answer, right off the bat. Good job.

honestly, i have never used Bitcoin mixers ever but I am watching them from 2011 when they first came I remember when I made my first bitcoin wallet then it was on a Bitcoin mixer site and they have charged me 0.01btc as transaction fees. where as block chain was taking 0.00001btc fees at that time. I prefer exchanges as I don't have to worry about my privacy much as because no one wants my little bit of money.

I think exchanges are better in my mind because you could buy and sell a lot of different coins and then back to Bitcoin and the fees are small so you could make lots of money and launder your money without being able to get traced between all the different coins.

For money laundering Mixer is number 1 and exchangers aren't useful in this situation. I'll explain why:
1. Bitcoin mixers have onion links which means you use Tor + VPN (optional) and there is better security.
2. As bitcoin mixers claim, they delete all your information after 24 hour.
3. You have an ability to pay custom fee, use some types of mixing like chipmixer offers.

There isn't your records and etc, you feel much secure on mixer. And when you launder money, you don't have to use legal and official services, that's why mixers exist.

You must admit, though... if you then put your money on an exchange and buy a bunch of different coins you will pay a small fee and mix your coins far better than the mixer alone does.

Much depends on the amount.
Especially now, many exchanges have made the mandatory verification of customers.

I want to respond here and give my thoughts about exchangers and mixers but are we just giving ideas here for those persons/people who want to do shit.


Why all of a sudden you have that question in the first place?

Why do you think people use mixers? People should automatically have a right to privacy and to have taint-free coins. You can't question a person's motivation just because he wants to use a mixer.

If you use a mixer, then you don't want anybody to be able to trace your bitcoins back.
Reasons for that can be that you are really a very private person, or that the source of those coins was not very secure.
From all I know the fees using a mixer are much higher than those at exchanges.
Personally I think that mixers are not necessary for an average person.

While exchanges in exchanges, an account is mandatory to carry out all the trading which will leave a trail and if the government launches a manhunt to find someone, he can easily be traced. On the other hand, mixers give an assurance that their coins would have no trails which is why most people are on the lookout for mixers over exchanges for privacy of coins. Keep in mind that not only those BTC launderers use this service but regular deep web market users also make the most out of this service.

Mixers will be pretty much useless in the future, if they aren't already.
There are companies who've got millions of dollars in resources working around the clock to de-anonymize transactions.
And yes, they can also track transaction which have gone through a mixer.

If you want privacy, better use another coin that provides privacy out of the box.

What you will get from exchange platform can be tracked down by your government but if you use darkweb version of mixers it will be hard for any government/authority to track your bitcoins. Mostly hacker and the one who want to maintain strong personal privacy uses mixers/tumblers rather than exchange platforms for ultimate privacy.

Bitcoin mixers are a good solution when you don't want anyone to know how many btc you have stored on your adress. This way you protect your privacy

Mixing funds obtained legitimately and for the purpose of privacy, is called dry cleanin. Mixing funds obtained through illicit activity is money laundering. People have different reasons to mix coins.

Don’t really know which of the two is much better, but I prefer to use the exchangers, and not mixers (which I’ve never got involved in before). Mixer kind of seem like a good option, maybe due to lower fees, and also staying safe in some ways. But, anyway, we all have our own choice to make.

I really don't see how can people even consider using a exchange as a way of "mixing" your coins. Sending your Bitcoins to a company that asks for your ID, needs to answer to governments and can easily track your funds. What could go wrong?

What about Localbitcoins?

nobody said people should use mixers and they certainly don't use it for laundering bitcoin. because for example if you have 1000BTC and don't want to pay taxes on it, if you use a mixer you still have 1000BTC and still have to explain to the tax man where you got it from and why haven't you paid your taxes!

mixers are used to increase your anonymity. for example if you have publicly showed your address and linked it to yourself now everyone knows how much bitcoin you own and what you do with it. you use a mixer to prevent them from knowing this.

exchanges do practically the same but they keep logs and they may block your account if you are just depositing and withdrawing bitcoin without trading !!

Local bitcoins force you to sell your bitcoins and then buy them back. If it is a large amount, payment is definitely through bank accounts and there is a trail. Plus, the premiums that traders charge on localbitcoins is usually pretty large.

Why one suggestion for you, it's not the very moment that you get that private key you sweep that into a brand new wallet. I think the blockchain. Info does that through the site otherwise you could use a software wallet and almost all of them will allow the import of private keys, some of the wallets called that sweeping and not a mixing

Both Exchange platforms and mixers might have tainted coin so you can't get clean/recently mined coin from any of them. Exchange platforms just send out withdrawals in bulk which might link you to many other bitcoin addresses which are not yours and on the other hand mixers will send bitcoin to your address only after mixing which is better. Also mixing coins is not to make cleaner coins, it is to add personal privacy on top of inbuilt anonymous feature bitcoin have.

My contribution is most times the fees involved as we have seen some mixing services that gave the  option of donation rather than compulsory fees which the signature I am wearing is an example, but in the case of exchange sites, that cannot be avoided for any reason. Another, is the just the annoying kyc that is put in place which a lot of people avoid but for reputable mixing services, you don't have to bother yourself about that.

This is an interesting comment - Does currency carry with it the sins that it was previously used for to a new owner?

I don't think so but what do you think?

When bitcoins are divisible to the 100 millionth of a coin there's no such thing as traceability back to original coins. Once the owner decides to send bitcoin the history of those satoshis are refreshed and start anew.

How do coins get labeled dirty? (Unless we're talking about 2011 Casascius brass.) Let alone "dirtier"?

If they want to launder btc, why would they leave some trails of their coins? Buying other coins and withdrawing them would still keep a record of your activity in their platform since they require you to provide your identity in doing some large trades whereas mixers, they only require a small fee for your coins to be lost among suspicious eyes.

Localbitcoins still has a trail. You must realize that in order to withdraw, the site/exchange sends the coins to you. They know exactly what address it comes from and goes out to. They can track your coins if needed. That's why mixers exist, the addresses are anonymous.

I think what just happened to BTC-e shows the failure in this line of thinking. The regulated exchanges won't let your darknet market coins in. They'll freeze your account and report you to the authorities. BTC-e never would have done that, but here we are.

To be honest, I don't even send coins into KYC exchanges anymore. I send fiat money into Bitstamp or GDAX, buy, and keep the coins on exchange or send to cold storage. Whatever coins I've made from sports betting or trading, those definitely don't get sent there...

In the end, kyc is the only way that the SEC and and other financial security agencies do not continue to harass many users and the bitcoin trading market, this is a very vital case and we have obtained the facts from btc-e, money laundering is not expected by the government and eventually mixer business will make them reluctant to continue the program.

Exchanges is a place to buy and sell bitcoin, even though you buy some forks and sell it for bitcoin again, doesn't mean you get cleaner/dirtier ;D coins than you had before? If your intention to launder bitcoin, forget about exchanges and mixers, you would harm their reputation with criminal acts. Mixers doesn't create to laundering coins as there are many reasons why we should use mixers to keep your transactions private, especially when dealing with large amounts.

There is karma at play here

That is, if you buy dirty coins and you know that they are dirty or could be dirty since you buy them in a shitty place (note that I don't necessarily mean Btc-e), the dirt is passed on you, as simple as it gets. It is like buying stolen things which you should never do however cheap the price might be (this is a firm no-op). Regarding the question asked in the opening post, personally, I see exchanges as a more reliable means to hide your coins (provided you don't disclose the details of your identity, of course)

I'd say that any of the larger exchanges like Bitfinex, Poloniex and Kraken are big targets for the US government now. That's why we see Bitfinex exiting the US market, Poloniex changing its terms, and Bittrex enforcing stiffer verification, all in reaction to the BTC-e shutdown.

Smaller exchanges, especially if they prohibit US customers and don't handle fiat money, are probably fine to continue operation. But it's clear that regulation is where we are heading now, and larger exchanges can't hide from the long arm of the US law.