Bitcoin Forum

Just watched a vid on Youtube posted yesterday by Rover Ver. He said that it cost him $59 to send Bitcoin. Jesus Christ, that's bloody ridiculous! Those miners are incredibly greedy and will send Bitcoin to the ground if that's the case. Who the hell is going to use Bitcoin for everyday transactions when it costs you $59 to buy a pack of chewing gum? Imagine going to buy a cup of coffee and you need to wait a few hours before the retailer can confirm your payment went through before they let you out of the shop.

What was the size of the transaction?

Bitcoin fees (like most fees) are scaled in nominal value to the work required. A transaction of tens of thousands of dollars costing $59 is a pretty decent deal.

If Roger and crew aren't disclosing the size of the transaction you should ask and don't relent on your need to know.

I have no idea, he didn't say it on his vid. Does the size of the transaction mean how much money he's sending? I thought the whole idea of Bitcoin is that it doesn't matter if you send 1 cent of 1 billion dollars, the fees should be the same.

This idea can still be correct. What increases the transaction size is the amount of inputs and outputs of the said transaction, and not how many Bitcoins have been sent. Usually, a transaction with 1 input and 1 output is equivalent to 250 bytes, independent if this input is worth 0.005BTC or 50BTC.

If you want to read more about the subject:
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1195/how-to-calculate-transaction-size-before-sending
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5eecuq/what_determines_the_transaction_size_or_number_of/

It's normal bro.few days ago I also faced this kind of issue.I withdraw from an exchange platform about $500 and the transaction fees were $5+ worth of Bitcoin. I think the miner is now so greedy.they charged us a huge amount of bitcoin for every transaction it's very painful for Bitcoin user.I want to see your transaction TXD, please provide it here.

Transaction fee will always depend on the size of the transaction itself, so if he send larger bitcoins with huge transaction size per byte then its really normal to have huge fees, and tx fee is always referring to bitcoin not in USD so if the btc price hike then of course it will becomes larger in USD

Bloody miners are ripping off the users of Bitcoin. They way I see it is that it's doomed to fail with these ridiculous fees. Some other altcoin is going to become the major crypto that has no fees or absolutely tiny fees.

THIS.
Bitcoin fees really are ridiculous, I hope that this somehow gets fixed soon.
Paying $2 fees when sending $10-15 payments it's absolute nonsense.

using x**o wallet can hurt you even more.

I wouldn't belive him even for a second.
He says that to promote his alt coin, thats it.
People send bitcoin with thousands $ fees by mistake, i sent my transactions with $0,01 fees and im happy :)

Most probably it's a promotional video, why would you film it when you are sending bitcoin?

provide tx_id or didn't happened  ;)

High fee is based on value of transaction maybe he send more than $2000 and the fee like that , its fair. because fee increased by value of ur transaction.
But i see , yesterday in some topic say bitcoin fee increasing too high , maybe its factor by bitcoin price is increased then the fee value got high.
Btw CMIIW Sir  :D

Maybe he made that transaction when the blockchain was so congestionated, or maybe there were not enough miners at that moment to confirm that block, but are you sure that this is true and not a fake?
I read about a guy who payed $119 for fees, but after all, it was his fault because he customized the fees and he did it without knowledge.
I think is impossible to pay that amount of money for fees, i payed $6 max when btc was $5000 a few weeks ago, and now it is $4800 and fees are $2 max, it is not bad.

You can set a custom fee, e.g. with coinb.in. It is possible today to set a $0.25 fee and the transaction will be confirmed within 1-2 hours. You can use this free transaction accelerator: https://pool.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/

The amount of the transaction must have been big but I've also noticed that if the Bitcoin you are moving comes from an address that received a bunch of small amounts that you are now sending as one transaction, the fees also get higher.

Fees for Bitcoins could be a problem in the future and will prevent it from being used for small transactions. Bitcoin will most likely be used for large transactions and a store of value.

There will be other altcoins that will take over for the small transactions. My guess is that Iota with no transaction fees will be used for micropayments and tips, etc.

It was probably a mistake, of course that guy is so dumb, why did he made the transaction? Maybe he could just wait a little bit longer and wait until the fees are lower (usually, fees varies from a minute to another)
I dont know.. i really think it was a mistake, there is no way to explain that he payed $59 of fees, it is insane, i remember that when i had to pay $4 for fees i was complaining a lot, but $59 is huge.

Please ask about the amount sent before going crazy. When you send small amounts the fee is small. If you send 100k+ then yeah I would imagine too there will be a decent sized fee. As long as it is better than banks

As you can seen guys this is posted for 2 months ago and i think the fee is really high in that time for now if you do transaction right now the fee is reduced and to check if what is the default fee you can check it here https://bitcoinfees.21.co/
And maybe that is why the transaction was asking for high fee it is because there is large amount of input in your account this is what happen to me that is why every time im receive bitcoin and get 5 inputs i merging them by sending them back to my bitcoin address in single transaction to merge them ..
So that you can get a small fee for every transaction you made with that address you use.

It depends on transaction size, so, sometimes a payment combined from dust balances requires minimal fee equals or more than its sum. But this is very uncommon situation. Second point, - it is not necessary always use default fee, the lower ones works great too if you can wait some additional time. My average is about 2$, in worst cases 5$ but not more.

I don't know guys. I moved 1.3 BTC around the same time and I paid about $1.60 in transaction fees. And it only took about 20 minutes. I just checked it to confirm that I wasn't imagining what I had seen.

Everybody has an agenda. Roger Ver has an agenda that may not jibe with your agenda. I agree with him on many things, but on others not so much. He's not being entirely forthcoming with this.

Always do your own due diligence!

How to know the amount of the fee when doing a transaction? Haven't experienced it yet.

It depends on the client you use, but so far all of them than I've used allowed to see and select the fee. Exchanges set fixes fees for withdrawals, but they are always indicated beforehand.

A few days ago my fee for transaction was something about 0.05$
Was anything changed recently?  :-\

Fees will vary.

it is back to you you can send with 0.001 fee and with 10,000$ fee

it is Depend on block size to send with right fee and time you can wait till arrive

The transaction fee will always depend on the size of the transaction itself, so if it sends larger bitcops with a huge transaction size per byte, then this is really normal

this is the reason bitcoin will never be acquired globally :)

Let's see how much banks will charge you for an over 10k transaction, BTC fee pricing is very low actually and you need to keep the reward satisfying for these who invest their computing power so you can move your coins.

Screenshots from Ver or it didn't happen.

Roger is a supporter of Segwit 2x and is obviously going to talk shit about Bitcoin leading up to their planned hard fork.


How interesting.

Think about it this way. If you made a $100,000 or $50,000 or even $10,000 (i.e., ~2 bitcoin) transaction and it cost you $59 would you think that's expensive? No.

Markets are great if you are looking to buy into crypto without paying the fee. On Gdax its free to trade in and out and thats typically how I buy my crypto with USD  ;D

--
Heyyo

This is a lie or he is trolling.

It costs much less than $59

Fee's are a problem but hopefully the Lightning network will improve matters since most smaller transactions will go peer to peer off-chain without fees.

I already paid 0.22btc in a transaction! The transaction contained several outputs of small values!

https://blockchain.info/pt/tx/836cda67a5ba1a473334efa620155e034b05c29055dc45e80c1e42db82bd5ebf

 :( :(

LOL. Is it really worth to pay 0.22BTC for 0.018BTC? Why have you choose a fee of 247 sat/byte? Half this and you would have received 0.11BTC more, which is already 6x what you received.

How did you even received have that many low-amount inputs anyway?

Of course it's Roger Ver but you also have to take into account that this thread is quite old and was posted prior to the segwit activation. If you check https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ (https://bitcoinfees.21.co/) today you will see that the median transaction fee right now is about 30 thousand satoshis (around 1.8$ at the time I'm writing this). So complaining about transaction fees right now is complete BS.

You are blaming the wrong people. Issue is not the miners they do not set the fees. People sending the bitcoins set the fees - the miners just choose which transactions get into a block - so obviously prioritise those with big fees!

Issue is that there are more people wanting to send transactions than there is space in the blocks.

So cause is the fact that the blocks are only 1,000,000 bytes is size (or bit bigger if you can send segwit Tx's - which you can't with BitcoinCore GUI).

To fix this you just need to ask the BitcoinCore developers to increase the block size - and then the cost per tx will come down.

Obviously cost of running a full node will go up a bit as will need a bigger harddisk/network connection. But even if they made it 10 times bigger would only need 0.5Tb per year of extra space (and 150kbit/sec network bandwidth) - which is only going to cost you about $20 - so not really going to stop anyone! Especially with all the savings on fees they will be making!

A few years ago the fees were hard coded in the software. And then whenever they went above about 10c everyone complained and they would reduce the set fee by a factor of 10! So I really don't understand why anyone would regard $1.8 as acceptable when the fix is so trivial - see post above.

(Well - trivial to program - but a hard fork - so very tricky to roll out - although BitcoinCash managed it).

It was the wallet block.io service drover who would not let me change the rate. Had to swallow in the dry it!
Making mistakes and learning!
haha

Why are you panicking so much? It is only up-to user to pay the fee maybe the size of his transaction is really high so that he paid 50$ so that his transaction get confirmed, I have seen many transaction with more then 100$ so that is just normal for me. I bet his transaction size is high so he paid high fee to get his transaction confirmed in no time :).

People please look back at the date when this thread was started. This was during the pre-SegWit stage when the MemPool

was spammed. A lot has changed since then and this thread serve no purpose anymore. Roger Ver and his cronies are behind

a lot of Fud that are being generated around Bitcoin. {because they are supporting other forks} ...Since SegWit was

implemented the Mempool was congested when the miners decided to mine Bitcoin Cash. {because it was more profitable

than BTC, but things quickly returned to normal.}  ::)

A few years ago bitcoins price was only a fraction from what it is today. For today's market I consider a 1.8$ a fair price considering the fees that other payment processors charge. Bitcoin is still imperfect, we know that, but there are people who are working extremely hard to improve bitcoin and fulfill it's full potential.
I don't know why you're preaching for bitcoin cash, paid shill or not you're missing the bigger picture.

its just normal because bitcoins value these days are so high and thats why the transaction fees are also high but if the value of bitcoin will drop , then the fees will also decrease. for me its just ok and nothing to worry about because it is a natural event or phenomenon and were not new about this issue , infact this problem has been discuss all the time and they cant do about it , so if your not ok with it, then better find a coin that has a low fee like dogecoin and litecoin.

looking at his tx, I'm seeing inputs from 3... aren't these multisig addresses?
these multisig inputs are responsible for that big of tx size (beside the reason of 300+ inputs)
paying $1000 tx fee to get $100 worth of BTC  :o
even if you launder your money, you won't get charged that high

btw the 3... addresses are tied to multisig or segwit?  ???

it depends on the size of the value of the transaction being sent or receive. In some wallet you can customize the fee per byte of your transaction. My normal fee i am using is 50 per byte so if i am sending around 50 bucks my fee would be 2$ per transaction. In his case maybe he send a high value of bitcoin because the transaction fee is 59$

Isn't the fee depends on the amount of BTC sending per transaction ? I also believe Roger Ver is more in to Bitcoin Cash, so he may be giving an hint that go for BCC instead of BTC. What do you guys think?

No  >:(
Also the headline of this task is misleading, and the word "shit" wrongly used ... At best stupidity would be the right word for someone paying this amount of fees.

The fee never depends on the amount of bitcoin value. It depends on the size of a transaction. A transaction can have 100s or thousands of entries, that add to the size of a transaction. Hence fees are paid in Satoshi per Byte.
Imagine you are a service, and have to pay 250 users some Satoshis in the next 2 or 3 blocks. Assume you have one input (your own UTXO), then you have a tx with 250 outputs, with each tx output having roughly 40Bytes output Bytes in it's easiest form: TX_OUT Value (uint64_t), TX_OUT PK_Script Length (var_int), TX_OUT pk_script (uchar[]). A good approximation for P2PKH tx is:
--> fee = (n_inputs * 148 + n_outputs * 34 + 10) * price_per_byte
That creates a tx with approx. 10 kbytes in size. If you have to pay 100 Satoshis per byte, then this creates 10.000 * 100 = 1mio Satoshi fee, equals to 0.01 Bitcoin, currently ~50 Euros.
But!  :D
You can reduce the fees to 15 Satoshi per byte, then it will get later into a block, and the fees reduce to less than 10 Euros.   
A very small transaction with one input an one output is in the range of 228 bytes, with 100 Satoshi per byte the fees would be 22800 Satoshis, 0.00028 bitcoins (somewhere in the 1 Euro range).

Experts to the front to prove/reject my math  ;D

The majority here seems to ignore this fee specification, and prefers to follow the fud and useless emotional energy waste. Get informed, and save fees, or stay dumb and pay the fees!
And Roger should have mentioned this, when he did the transaction, or even provide a a link to the tx, so we could look it up. Otherwise it seems to be an intentionally misleading of the community.

Next step for low fee transactions (coffee, online books, ...): look at lightning!
(And then you understand, why miners are against SegWit and Lightning, cause their basis of revenue is reduced dramatically by the network).

Fee is so little i send 100$ to user in china and pay 1.16$ only

if you want your money to arrive fast will pay more fee .

You must know the total amount of bitcoins transacted before you can conclude the fee is exorbitant.

Bitcoin fees is what puts me away from bitcoin entirely.

Yeah i'm not so keen on the fees either but I guess nothing in life is free...

He says that the fee is $59 not $5, its much bigger than your fee. If really the fee is $59, so bitcoin will be leave by its user.
As i know $5 per transaction is good.  Hope can be lower than.

Roger Ver is an ex-convict and known liar. He told the public Mt. Gox was ok and then it got robbed. He told the public that Bitcoin Unlimited was “production ready” and then the entire network crashed. He is the brainchild of Bitcoin Cash but lies to the public that he “found out about it after it launched”. All of this is public information. The fee Roger Showed was “artificially generated” and you can make a high fee also by splitting coins. You cannot trust a word from Roger Ver.

that  is  sotashi  didt  realized!the  fee  cant automatically  adjust  accoding  the price that  is  a  big disaster for transation  when  you  use  bitcoin! so some  altcoin  is  replacing the  game!

Think you for this information ,so if i sent like 100btc will it increase the transaction value?
you says 50 as max size of transaction.
actully i am quite new to this and want to do transactions with minimal cost.

The "data" size of the transaction is what defines the fee... NOT the "bitcoin value" of the transaction.

A transaction with 1 input for 100000 BTC will have the same "data" size as a transaction that has 1 input for 0.1 BTC. Most wallets would attach the same fee to both transactions.

The "data" size of a transaction has previously been calculated as:

(Number of Inputs * 148 bytes) + (Number of Outputs * 34 bytes) + 10 bytes

Things have changed a little bit with SegWit, but in general... this is not a bad rule of thumb to follow... as you can see, an Input accounts for nearly 5x the data in a transaction that an output does...

As for the maximum amount of btc you can send in a transaction... Theoretically, there isn't one... however, there will only ever be 21,000,000 BTC ever produced... and given that a lot have been "lost" from people losing private keys, it's say to say, no-one will ever be able to send more than 21,000,000 in a transaction ;)

To date, my highest fee ever was just above 100,000 satoshi, which would have been just above $6 at ATH (I believe it was $3 at the time). Then again, that was a fee charged by the service I was using at a time when the network was congested, something I didn't have control over. Actual fee ended being about 60% of that, too, so I was skimped a little in the end.

On my own wallet using my own fees, I'm still a cheapo. Never paid more than 30,000 satoshi for transactions easily worth hundreds. The highest value transaction I did was 0.3 BTC ($1000 at the time) and I still paid something like 25k satoshi. As many have pointed out, it's not about the fiat amount, it's about the size of your tx. The more space it takes up in the block, the more you have to pay. Keep 'em lean, and learn to navigate around mempool, I say!

Without context, we can't say if that user overpaid. If I calculate savings based on the next cheapest transfer option (for me that would be a 0.5% fee bank wire), I've probably saved >95% of my costs.

If that is the amount of txn fee, then number of users will come down and prices of bitcoin will come down i guess

Well 59 Dollars is 1% of todays value of Bitcoin. You were ignoring Bitcoin in the first place that is why you are complaining about the fees. If you were here from the very start you will never ever say that the fees are ridiculous. Only newbies will say that. Cover is blown.
The everyday transaction example is also about ignorance. If it is POS. Bitcoin transaction is faster than your credit card transaction. You don't need to write your signature everytime you use your Bitcoin. With credit card a lot of paper work will be dealt with. Hidden charges will be dealt with. Reconciling balances will be dealt with. But with Bitcoin there is a public ledger. Nothing is ever hidden. Banks hide everything.

It does still matter even you are an early adopter or late adopter/recently joined up the group.$59 fees will really hurt for sure even if you are a whale or does hold up lots of bitcoin.My current situation on making transfers do charge me up almost $3 basing on the average fees recommended as of these days which i do consider to be high still.

I always just have a quick look over at block trail shows in the table the optimal fee and shows the lowest fee and highest fee paid can be helpful

Well that is still very cheap, if he has sent millions through the bitcoin network and size of his transaction was big and he wanted to send those bitcoins as soon as possible. For the holders, bitcoin fees are not the issue because if you don't need your funds to be confirmed very fast, you can just send transaction with low fee. I saw some guys who send transactions using 4 sat/byte and they have waited like 1 week or so in order to get confirmation.

Well one thing I know for sure, since I've been trying to implement bitcoin payment in an ecommerce shop... The fees are HUGE for small transactions. I've been using bitpay and trying to pay a invoice of 1$. Total price was 2$...

This is why you hold the BCH and other coin splits and not sell them....just in case.

I don't believe it  ;D, tell me tx of that transaction.

Many online exchanges handle transaction fees themselves so their users enjoy high priority transaction speed, high transaction fees high priority and low transaction fees low-priority. I think ?

That was a huge transaction fee, or else he are sending huge amount of bitcoin because calculation of transaction fee is depending on the volume of transaction, and also it depends on the wallet did he used there are some online wallet and exchange are imposing huge amount of withdrawal fee in every transaction we made. And i think that fee is fit for the amount of money he transacted since he is one of the rich people in bitcoin world i think he didnt mind that transaction fee.

Let's hope something will change in the near future. Low transaction fees are the key for using BTC on daily basis.

I know a lot of people have varying opinions about BitPay, fees, schedule, how they do business, what have you...

They have a "feature" in their gui that allows you to purchase an Amazon gift card with BTC, and that actually used to be convenient for some things, not so much now, and this probably has something to do with the miner fees.  If you use that feature to purchase a ten dollar Amazon gift card (which BitPay probably already gets at a discount, my opinion, no evidence) would actually cost you US$ 21.00 give or take.

When it's that expensive, more than a 100% markup, to use a feature like that, no one will use it, and BTC starts to lose value, imo.

Yeah it's getting out of hand. It's because of the btc price. Not sure how this will be solved, but fees are higher than visa and mastercard right now. This was never the intention!

Complaining about high fees only means that Bitcoin is not a bubble. Transfer your assets to Ripple and MIOTA if you really think that it is high. Just remember that tackle explorer of MIOTA  is hard to utilize. Low fees and no fees? Invest in Ripple and MIOTA. Just be ready to accept the disadvantages that comes with low fees and zero fees. At the very least Bitcoin will never ever freeze your account but how sure are you that ripple online wallets wont. With IOTA there are zero fees but you cannot reuse your wallet because the system exposes your private key during transaction.

Really? That's indeed insane! But I think it's also an assurance that you're in a good exchange. Unlike maybe there's some out there that offers low fee but the exchange isn't reliable. Well, you should know the rate and fees before the transaction.

It depends on transaction size but actually bitcoin fees are absolutely too expensive in my opinion.
Just in this case other blockchains are better imho

This thread is just becoming a place for people to spam without reading the thread.

Locked.