Bitcoin Forum

Just wondering, Bitcoin started as a project to offer people freedom from bankster/government fiat and the banking system. Yet almost every single person involved in Bitcoin is using it to try to get more of that very thing Bitcoin was designed to 'get rid of'.

I never cared for Bitcoin as an investment vehicle, it's a tool that offers people financial freedom and independance.
Yes tell me again how stupid i was selling cheap and how bad i should feel, notice how i don't care.
Because for me Bitcoin was never about making more Dollars.

If none of the horrible things that are waiting for us in the future will ruin bitcoin, maybe the mindset of people just wanting Bitcoin to gain more fiat will be even more devastating.

This mindset seems to have been increasing for years now...
People don't even ask me anymore how it works or why it was invented, all they care about is how to make fiat with it. My answer is always the same... "Bitcoin is not a good investment for you, only invest in things you understand and believe in."

Could destroy Bitcoin. But another cryptocoin could emerge and the easiest way to get this new coin would still be by using Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not yet completely ordinary people know the details but for now considering that the Bitcoin price is always up, it is appropriate to be invested regardless of the problem earlier.

Great post kwukduck. I'm glad it's not just a troll and we can see you are actually passionate about bitcoins. I agree. It's strange to see newbies flock in hoping to earn more of that backed-by-good-will-hopes-and-government-dreams money. If you truly believed in bitcoins you'd just use it like the currency it is.

you can buy coin create use etheum token smartcontract use ETH not only bitcoin
buy coin waves token can use waves coin, so if bitcoin problem, another coin can replace bitcoin position, maybe ETH

this is inevitable.
the adoption is growing and more people find out about bitcoin specially now that it is all over the media. and with that the price appreciates over time. obviously that makes bitcoin an investment.

but this doesn't change the fact about why it was created and how some people use it. you can still have that "financial freedom" with bitcoin and enjoy the price appreciation too. you buy 1 bitcoin at $1000 an in 6 months you have $4000 purchasing power. there is nothing wrong with that.

your actions and your timing suggests otherwise ;)

Actually Bitcoin itself is killing its purpose as a currency because of its limited cap. Bitcoin is deflationary and hence people will not use it in everyday transactions when fiat is available which is inflationary. People tend to go where they see profit. That is why today Bitcoin has largely became an investment asset. But that too wouldn't kill it. Bitcoin existence definitely depends upon its utility but also demand. Demand will remain even if Bitcoin is used for growing fiat.

OK,i see your point.People want more bitcoins to make more fiat money and somehow this is wrong,but can you buy food with bitcoins?I wouldn`t convert any of my bitcoins into fiat if it was possible to buy food and pay the bills with BTC.All the bitcoin users have to convert their btc into fiat, in order to buy all the things they need.I hate trading btc for fiat,because there are too much transaction fees,but i have no choice.

The political aims of the bitcoin creators and pilots were pretty dubious. Bitcoin is money, and money is naturally a corrupting force that governments and banks have the greatest skill and interest in exploiting. The original aims will dwindle as adoption increases, price increases and banks and governments take over bitcoin.

Probably ratio of people who are using bitcoins as currency is outnumbered by people who are using as store of value at current times but it does not mean the same scenario will persist for ever. trend will change and deflationary nature of bitcoin will not be a big issue as digital assets are infinitely divisible.

Cashing out is the reverse process of incoming investments. Hence it will destroy any systems hence cryptos cannot be an exceptions.

If the crypto market is broken, there are not any coins that are safe for you to store. Bitcoin and ethereum are the strongest currencies, however, bitcoin is always superior.

Bitcoin is always superior, but I don't think that crypto market gets broken in the near future. Bitcoin and ethereum are strong, but this grew little by little. Same will happen with other digital currencies too, but cashing out will not destroy the crypto. The reason is that, at some point the bitcoin is getting into circulation.

Cashing crypto currencies can be a significant lever of pressure of the state on users of crypto currencies. So now until the war with the governments of crypto currencies has not reached its climax need to develop trade with bitcoins now. Later may be too late.

Then why did you sell?

Anyway, for me it's all about diversification. Do I believe fiat will crash? It certainly will. All empires fall. According to past performance, USD as the world reserve currency has its days counted:

http://image.ibb.co/hWnk1k/reservecurrencies.png

It's clear to me that we will see during our lifetime something big happen, and when that happens, I want a neutral asset of sorts. Bitcoin remains the number one place to be during such an event. You also got gold, but Bitcoin has superior characteristics in the digital era.

I will never sell of my BTC, but if in 2020 BTC is worth $100,000+, it is safe to diversify and sell some if you really need to. In my case it would change my life. I can't afford the risk of going 100% on BTC when selling a part of it could retire me for life and I could own my own property instead of living with my parents pretty much forever.

So my plan is to sell some if it's enough to change my life, but always have at least 50% on BTC to stay safe in a world surrounded by constant uncertainty.

If I want to buy real state, im going to be forced to sell the amount I need anyway, because there's just no way to legally buy real state with BTC.

And I think every person here have a freedom to do anything with their bitcoin, even if they think about bitcoin as a source of Fiat money, because that is how people get's interested towards it and I think after learning the other ways in earning it I think they can surely know the thing about investing it to some other Alts or wait for the price to rise, I think people will start in the mid set of earning Fiat with bitcoin because that is how some are getting involve with bitcoin and yes we need to convert it with Fiat to simply use it with expenses.

I'm also thinking what if the most richest bitcoin address sold out their bitcoin, I think it will destroy bitcoin value world wide
So yeahh it's a risk that must I and others to bear in order to be a millionaire in next 4 years

You can cash out little by little and keep about 0.5 ~ 0.75 for incoming year 2021

Most people interested to make more money and somehow bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies provide opportunities to do so.
If there are more people cashing out than people who invest in bitcoin, yes it's more devastating and could destroy crypto environment.
But, limited supply of bitcoin ensures the price will naturally growing higher over time. But, if we could spend bitcoin directly to buy everything that we need, then we don't have to sell bitcoin for fiat currency.

It doesn't matter if you cash out or not, because the Bitcoins go to someone else. They don't "disappear".

It couldn't destroy bitcoins but is actually an advantageous thing for Bitcoins, not the mindset of people obviously but everyone buying it. At least they are "BUYING" it with a hope of getting something over it which is also not a bad thing tbh. Mindset would be changed only if Bitcoin starts being used as a currency but that's never going to happen anytime soon because of its super-liquid properties that will stop any country or governments, or if we want that to happen we need to have governments regulate this and there ends the "decentralization" part, so what will be the use of Bitcoins then? Valuation in Fiat is actually devaluating fiat against Bitcoins and making Bitcoins stronger against any currency or assets which show that it may not become a global currency but a super-strong asset anyone can bet on.

I think it matters for some set of people. I have noticed one thread says that some of the bitcoin using trading is going some people and it been holding to start up with the altcoin price moves. We need to be careful the and save our bitcoin most of the time and don't spend it too much.

On the other hand, cashing out bitcoin can give a chance to the new comer.  Besides we are all human who eat and drink, wants a comfortable home and at least have some money to spend for leisure.  I also want to see Bitcoin being used as a currency where I can buy things that fiat money can buy but that is just a dream right now since there is too little store that is directly accepting Bitcoin and were too far from majority of user of Bitcoin.  So there is no other way but to cash them out before we can use it.  Since we are to cash out Bitcoin, it is not a bad idea to at least profit from the trades :).   It is in a man's nature to make full out of what he is trading.  And I would strongly oppose that cashing out would destroy crypto since if you exit there will be another person to replace you, who?  The person who bought your crypto. It is a cycle, a loop.

   Maybe I am wrong, but cashing out on massive scale can ruin some countries and companies, investment or insurance firms, stock markets can collapse cause of cashing out. Bitcoin depends from
internet, money pumped in, price is sensitive that is visible, and cashing out is not the only thing that can destroy bitcoin.
   What can start massive cashing out, I just have one idea and that is news about bitcoin collapse. From how strong source this information needs to come in order everyone to believe in that? FUD is
everywhere, and I saw many threads about bitcoin collapse but bitcoin is still here, and price is higher then ever.
   I have the same point of view like some other members, even if bitcoin collapse that will just give a free space to a new comer!

Kwukduck, I can point you to hundreds of altcoins that can help you get rid of your fiat - almost any scamcoin will help you achieve that. Enjoy.

Your argument is not logical my friend. Bitcoin is the ancestor of all the crptocurrencies and if bitcoin dies, the rest cannot survive in this ecosystem. I also don't think bitcoin can die because of cash out transactions. Cashing out is the part of this business and not a threat.

There's a false dichotomy that Bitcoin can be either investment or currency, in fact it can easily be both - you save Bitcoins to preserve and increase their value, but also spend them when you really want to. Fiat value is actually irrelevant, because the market value of Bitcoin will keep growing, no matter in what it will be measured - gold, dollars, goods, oil, etc. If you will only spend Bitcoins directly, you will notice that prices in Bitcoins will be going down - from BTCs to mBTCs to thousands of satoshis. Right now fiat is just very useful tool for measuring value, so people care about Bitcoin's price.

If people cash out into AltCoins Bitcoin can be destroyed, but another currency can emerge, no?

If everyone cashes out their Bitcoin into fiat Crypto-Currency world would die, as the demand would decrease considerably. Too much supply for low demand...

Yes, cashing out is what is killing any crypto, and there is nothing we can do about it. People invested their money on the cryptos to make profits  that's why there are selling whenever they make some profits over. People are looking for profit so whenever they make it then they sell their coins. ;D

All people have different aims and would really depend on how they did know about bitcoin. If someone explains them that bitcoin is just really being created for a new payment system then it would be great but later on he would really discover on making money too out of it which i do strongly believe that he would really focus on this one knowing that people on this world do really crave for money and you cant really changed that thing.Its always been part of being human of being greedy with money.

kwukduck usually only creates threads to bash bitcoin and announce the big next crash, so it was good to see an interesting post for once.

I also think there's nothing wrong with speculating with it. As long as you don't go 100% fiat in your movements and you keep some BTC, you are helping BTC.

In order for BTC to defeat fiat, everyone would need to use it and everyone would need to sell all of their fiat for BTC. This will not be easy, but inflation on fiat currencies and deflation on BTC will guarantee it keeps going up as an asset.

I think you have a point Duck. I don't think it will destroy crypto, but a speculative economy will see endless bubbles. As long as people want dollars rather than bitcoin they are just trading tokens. When we see more adoption of bitcoin for payments, remittances and other economic activity then we will really ramp up.

So you missed the train

And sold plenty of bitcoins too early at too low a price, did I get right what you actually wanted to say (and now try to rationalize that and persuade yourself by telling us)? Regardless, I don't think that many people actually care for fiat as much as you pretend they do (to the point of cashing out every now and then). Whenever you cash out, you are set to book losses or lose profits (either way). The only point in your whole post which is plausible enough is that about investing only in assets which "you understand and believe in" (and I'm not sure about the believe part)

Since the only way to cash out is to sell Bitcoins to another person, I don't think that can bring it down. If you are able to cash out, that means that someone else wants to buy it so it has value. As we can see, the value keeps going up so there must be more people wanting to buy Bitcoins than there are wanting to sell it.

I'm sure there are other ways Bitcoin could die, but I don't think cashing out is one of them.

It is certainly not that simple

You forget that people may have to cash out at a loss, i.e. selling at prices lower than they had first bought the coins at. What does it mean in respect to the point in question? It pretty much means there is less money in the system since they first bought these bitcoins from someone (who might have withdrawn the proceeds himself which made the price drop), and then they withdraw the cash themselves. It could be easily shown that cash-outs are irrelevant when the price is rising, while they become lethal when the price is tanking

You don't always have to understand everything. You can buy a car without even knowing how to drive it!

Totally agree! Cashing out on an individual level would not kill bitcoin but if people were to cash out in some sort of coordinated manner because of fud or whatever market fears this definitely would destroy not only bitcoin but several other altcoins with it.

In that time, most trader and investor will panic and sell their coin for withdraw to FIAT, that situation will make the price of Bitcoin dump to lowest price as in 2013 again haha. This is worst situation of Bitcoin.

Your argument is right in that people are now more focused on converting bitcoin to fiat using the banking system in which the objective of bitcoin is to dislodge but at the same time the bank has equally helped in no small way ensuring people get access to bitcoin because they are used to fiat which they then use to buy bitcoin.

Hey Kwukfuck, I decided to hold one bcc but the value just keeps dropping. What's up with that?

YOU HADN'T LISTENED TO HIS ADVICE! you were supposed to buy it at $200, damn you. How dare u disrespect Kwakduck, the saviour. U missed 300% rise, your fault.

Hey Casholder, you said this was gonna take btc's mkt cap and all it's doing is dumping - what's up with that?

I kind of agree, nowadays people prefer to used bitcoin as investment rather than currency, but this kind of things happened because of the people that keep on demanding bitcoin and that causing the price to blow up, so I think this kind of thing is inevitable and I am okay for people to used it as investment if it can help bitcoin popularity

cashing out means that a conuterpart is buying so it is a relative concept. i agree that influences price but in function of pressure: if there is more pressure to cashout the price will fall, rise in the oppposite situation

I do not think this could destroy bitcoin however if it had a big impact, I will bet that most alts will get affected too, all the coins are priced on bitcoin, if you want to get alts you need to get bitcoin first, if people began to get rid of their bitcoin because of a collapse then the same will happen to other alts, I think the fate of all alts is linked to bitcoin, if bitcoin fails then everything fails.