Bitcoin Forum

Hello guys, I really don't understand all the "excitement" about that SegWit thing. It already activated couple of days ago and still nothing - too many unconfirmed transactions, fees are very high, block sizes are still under 1 MB, and slow confirmations. Where is the promised lightning network? When (if at all) the current situation will change?

Well, some say it is because of the bitcoin Cash. SInce bitcoin cash is getting easier to mine, the miners are shifting from Bitcoin to Bitcoin Cash and making the confirmations delayed. The block is not the problem but the miners who are confirming it.

Oh, that's very bad...I hope situation will improve a lot soon. :(

To all the miners - please leave that Bitcoin Cash! Focus only on Bitcoin - the future!  >:(

It has almost nothing to do with bitcoin cash. Segwit activation is the first step towards adding new features to bitcoin - it doesn't magically speed up all transactions just by being activated. Next all exchanges, wallets and service need to start using segwit transactions for it to actually ease pressure on fees and block sizes. So far only very few segwit transactions have been made as most transactions are still normal transactions and they do not get faster or cheaper just because segwit is activated.

On the other hand what you're currently seeing with fees going up and transactions being delayed is a concerted spam effort coordinated by people trying to make it look like the bitcoin blockchain is congested and needs a controversial 2x upgrade in November which is being pushed by the NYA miners when most of the userbase and developers are against it and will not agree to their threats. It's artificial and does not represent the real economy situation.

The segwit was not a joke, a consensus was clinched for the first time, look at the price rise where did it come from. Like the user above me said bcc is being a pain, a big pain, I had initially expected it to disappear in a week time, but now news comes it's getting lots of hash, and miners will go where they earn most, but what I believe is only matter of few days, so just hold on, I am sure good things will come. Besides no one promised it would improve over night, I am really sure it will work for good.

I think seg wit is a good think but I also think we have to give it time. Not everything can instantly work as its supposed to. We also can't forget that bitcoin is very new compared to other currencies so it's essential that we give it time to grow and not rush things.

I think it takes time for it to develop a much faster transaction or smooth transaction, it just doesn't happen overnight. And I don't think it has to do with bitcoin cash too, just give it some leeway to make the devs work on the project and soon it'll be faster.

Does that mean bitcoin cash is becoming more popular than the bitcoin?

I think segwit is not yet fully active, because if viewed from the project roadmap, segwit will be fully active by the end of this year

Why do you say segwit is a joke ?? Segwit also takes time and can't directly as you expect, and segwit still unfinished by end of november is over. . We follow aja process and don't think badly before it all ends.

SegWit activation was most certainly not a joke and it is very disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

I am equally still waiting for the same time when we  begin to reap the benefit of all this SegWit activation and all the hypes that came with it. Maybe in the coming days we will be able to to start getting it.

I don't see how what's happening can be surprising, it will take time before it's easy to start using SegWit to its fullest and it will take time for people to start actually using it. Like they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. And there's still that part of the community who are probably active users and will still refuse to use SegWit...

It's just the first week and the foundation has only been laid out. From this point on is the growth, development and fine-tuning of the real applied technology.

I just hate it when I see such a huge load on the bitcoin network. I really hope that the unconfirmed transactions & fees will decrease a lot soon, and situation will at least return to what it was few weeks ago. Spammers - please stop!

Just be patient, we are in a transition state.  The activation is just a first step of numerous steps.  An initial process where the actual solution to the scaling will be implemented.  We can think of Segwit Activation being the foundation to enable other development to happen in Bitcoin System.  So we just need to bear with it for a meantime together with those people who are spamming the network.  They will get tired of it, I am sure.

I really hope so.

and now people are realising the activation is meaningless

to get 2.1mb of real economic average base blocksize nearly everyone needs to move their funds over to segwit based transaction keypairs..

8 years ago it was possibly to have 7tx/s if near everyone decided to do lean transactions.. yet in 8 years it has not been seen.
same will happen now. its near impossible for near everyone to be using segwit based transactions. so dont expect the 7tx/s anytime soon or regularly.

segwit does NOT stop spam
segwit does NOT stop quadratics
segwit does NOT stop bloated tx's

all segwit does is offer innocent people to disarm themselves. but does not stop malicious people from continuing to do what they do.

segwit has been an over promised under delivered empty gesture that has wasted 2 years of innovation.

people are now starting to wake up to it and wishing proper rules and proper universal growth was the route to take

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what the activation has done was to change the topology of the network is now set. with the cartels nodes at the top and the cludge of other nodes at the bottom.

Roger Ver+Jihad is spamming the network heavily after segwit activation as the smart users predicted, actually very predictable. Now he is doing astroturfing everywhere, including thi forum. "See, segwit didn't work, we need a blocksize increase!"

They want to push the SegWit2x dogshit in order to crash the BTC price so BCC can benefit. Don't fall for it. Pay the fucking fees or wait for the Roger Ver+Jihad Wu spam to cease.

Oh my God! In this case, Roger+Jihad are VERY bad people! We mustn't let them win here!

Roger+Jihad - PLEASE STOP! STOP SPAMMING! PLEASE!!!

Well we have to just wait and see, since it is still fresh and maybe most miners are still adjusting to it. Actually there are still reports of delayed transactions and slow confirmations. Let us just be patient, and possibly we see changes these days.

It wasn't a joke mate, the chain is modified and developed a lot and still it is developing but it will take some time. The rapid growth of price after segWit is shows that it works although it need some more time to make it more better. Don't be a pessimist, hope for the positive results and wait for it.

billy change the record

bitcoin cash is a separate network. you might aswell be trying to say that 42coin is a threat to bitcoin... wake up
as for who is spamming, its like the last 2 years its the bscartel (blockstream +silbert) that want to convert people to segwit by making people think its beneficial to move over ASAP by using fear and panic as always.. again wake up

if you want to be rational. realise the ultimate truth. until the major merchant shopping cart services flip to a different network, there is no fear. and at the moment coinbase merchant tools has more chance of flipping to litecoin than it does to any other coin. so start making people aware of litecoin as the threat... again wake up

Maybe the wallet that you're using to send transaction from is not yet supporting SegWit, so you're still experiencing the normal transaction. Probably sometime next week, services will actually be integrating SegWit ready transactions. It really depends on the service that you're using.

After reading some comments here I realized that, in short, we had a network upgrade which on its own hasn't done anything special.
We still would need to upgrade our online infrastructure, wallets, services - basically everything to feel the upgrade.
People who expected instant and amazing betterment must be disappointed by the whole complication... I still didn't upgrade my wallet either...

Roger and Jihad, if you are reading this, please, stop your spam. You won't get anything from it.

Wise people always posted that

SW is not a on-chain scaling solution

SW is a slow starter since infrastructure and users have to actively change - segwait bit is true.

A 2x (NYA) helps immediately for fee reduction and needed mass adoption block space and was the only way to get miners agree on the SW 1x at first step.

Bitcoin had 8+ years evolution+reputation time to be as safe as known today. Potential new 2nd layer scaling techs need many years too, to be save enough to be used, but might never be same trustless as bitcoin on-chain trx.

And AFAIK all that trouble, because of some potential centralization fears in some years, that might be wiped away by new massiv growth e.g. in big business world that would mean real decentralization, because these entities need to run lots of new separate big nodes on top.

Well, I just hope that the situation will get much better soon.

More users using Segwit transactions will be what helps drain the mempool to get the fees down.  This will take some time as exchanges change their wallets to handle segwit (as mentioned in this post previously).  In the meantime BTC should get some more hashpower as some minors switch over to mining BTC from BCH.  BCH is around 2 mins per bock so as I am writing this I see this hashrate starting to change in the next 12 hours.  BCH will have a major difficulty adjustment upward this go around.  I do not see this cycle ending between BTC and BCH for at least a few more weeks.  Well worth the wait though.  Don't panic sell.

Just a friendly reminder: majority of miners never wanted SW, rather bigger blocks.

Not so sure if that speeds up very soon, also when we see the 2x fight against miners on top.

Some miners might just skip all SW TX until NYA 'consensus' is reached. If not, they might play legacy BTC down and Bitcoin Cash wins.

Show proof or evidence of the spam source being Blockstream, or is that just BS plucked out of the air?
A fee market can stop spam, price out the spammers and move the trivial low value transactions to 2nd tier.
We don't need every coffee transaction stored on the blockchain.

Segwit is not the answer but it is a stepping stone that should have been implemented a long time ago, the miners holding it back have stifled development and are totally to blame for this temporary stagnation.

The situation will resolve itself. Obviously there are issues with miners preferring bitcoin-cash as it has less difficulty and is more profitable when compared to mining bitcoin. We saw the benefits of segwit after the first 2 weeks with lower fees and faster confirmation times. Hopefully this is temporary.

Show proof, who says 'we don't need ...' ?

You just rephrase non sense. Bitcoin needs all, or nothing.

Proof, why it's not possible w/o SW.

Define spam....

Even if the spam is artificial, blockchain is really congested. Nothing artificial about it.
We need a solution, one way or another.

None of what you says makes any sense to me.

1) You either allow spam and include it in blocks, thereby making blocks bigger and bigger.
2) You price spammers out of the market.
What are the alternatives?

Since you failed to define spam first, it is clear now, you are spamming this forum.

show proof jihan is spamming

oh wait, he does empty blocks, so cant be adding spam to blocks..
oh wait jihan is mining bch not btc so cant be adding spam to btc...

LOGIC!!!
you cant accuse someone of making empty blocks aswell as filling blocks of spam .. it makes no sense
you cant accuse someone of making spam blocks on one coin while strangely hashing another. it makes no sense

billy and others who love the FUD of reddit propaganda need to pick one story and stick with it because it becomes a joke when you fools flip flop the narative

need proof just check the stats from last year june 2016 and november 2016.. look who needed to create panic to sway people into being pressured to accept bips released at those times..

What can this 'Bitcoin Cash mining' problem do to the value of BTC?  ???

I didn't make the claim Jihan was spamming, you made the claim Blockstream was spamming, but lets face it you can't prove it. So if you can't prove it move on and don't make baseless accusations.
Its weakens the rest of your argument and makes you look silly.


"oh wait jihan is mining bch not btc so cant be adding spam to btc..."
LOGIC!!!, trying using some, that just doesn't make any sense spamming and mining are not linked directly. You can surely make some arbitrary link but it doesn't really hold water.

LOL, I too am waiting for this. After the difficulty readjusts, and the price too (they will learn). No one has questioned why people are willing to pay 600-1000 dollars for a forked coin that still, like bitcoin, has no real world basis in value. This is all a bubble, people. Bitcoin is innovative, but the blockchain is the real winner here. Are we really paying these ridiculous, purely speculative prices for a technology that is open sourced? are we pretty much paying this much simply to participate in bitcoin?

and how long do you think we will be able to keep this up? this growth is clearly not sustainable, by the literal textbook definition of "unsustainable economic growth".

Caveat emptor.

This totally makes sense sir! Desperados are trying hard to hijack the whole thing. I seriously doubt money is the cause of their desperation.

Maybe next quick solution should be making Bitcoin resistant to spam attack. it's so far their only way to harm the Network.

Good night good people!

I don't think that segwit activation was a joke because the lightning network is just missing and the developers are working on that to implement it on bitcoin as soon as possible. Segwit activation is not easy for the developer or the team behind bitcoin because it needs a lot code work and we should just wait patiently until we see the improvements in bitcoin.

No. It's not a joke it's we are adapting the segwit  since it got activated few days ago but a little concerned about the miners they aren't still able to fill up the blocks and antpool is just mining an empty blocks i don't think it's just an coincidence.

it really depends whether longer term investor interest develops for BCH. if it's being purely manipulated and bitmain (and friends) are just buying into everyone's dumps, then they will just be left holding the bag, and the problem will sort itself out.

if, however, they are successful and maintain status as a top 3 coin competing with BTC, they could really split prospective BTC investors, cutting down on the money flowing into BTC. if this happens, there is also the slight possibility that BCH would overtake BTC entirely. that seems pretty unlikely, though.


but the emergency difficulty algorithm adjusts it back down very quickly. isn't it something like 6 blocks? whereas adjusting difficulty upwards is just like BTC (~2 weeks). that means that this cycle could continue for a while, until BCH buy pressure is totally exhausted. the EDA can basically cause hyperinflation for BCH under these circumstances.

Segwit is a scam. Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin.

How much long we need to classified that this segwit is successful. After it's activation, there's no pressure on unconfirmed transaction, it's even increase more. THough its still needs time to fully activated, but people are wonder, how long?. Can we judge someone who doing spam ? Or miners who going for bitcoin cash mining because its more profitable? I dont think so.

i said twice and now a third time, check the stats of the june 2016 and november 2016 bips dates and the mempool/ spam attacks of those times which are what blockstream needed to scare people into adopting said bips
its not my fault that you may not know where to research

many think if things are spoonfed too much it cant be believed, so its much better if you really want to know the truth, that you do your own research so that you come to your own conclusion

the data exists. go seek it out

as for "what harm can bch do to bitcoin...
its an altcoin.. it can have many many exohash of hashpower or just 1 gigahash of hash power. neither influences bitcoin because .. THEY ARE ON SEPARATE NETWORKS!!

the only REAL influence is the merchant services.. if they moved away from accepting btc and instead only accept bch.. then things matter. until then an alt is just an alt

I'll indulge you, I'm open minded and am happy to see what evidence you -or if you are going to make me to work for it... I :) -  can produce.
I see the spam attacks in June & Nov 2016, which BIPs are you suggesting that these attacks where designed to have influence over?
Do you have anything to show they are connected with each other, or any analysis on them?

Bullshit! Bitcoin only!

Are you Roger/Jihad? Please stop spamming the network!

I just noticed that fees are gradually getting lower and also the unconfirmed transactions, and hopefully it will only get better and better! Fingers crossed! :)

Fees are lower now and 35k unconfirmed transactions, yesterday was more than double. Fingers crossed!  :)

Yes you are right it is not joke but some people are said it is joke and fake but it's no joke and very intrasting and activaton is a very better but
 i said it's not joke. the block is not the problem but the miners who are confirming it.

Segwit would get completely locked in only on november 18th and till then clear results could not be expected.This was the stage previous.But now,this delay is occuring due to miners just mining empty blocks and some miners switched to mine BCC since they consider it profitable.But on november also,more miners who have signed in New York Agreement have decided to support segwit 2x,which should be activated within six months of signing agreement.It was signed on may 2017.So,a hard fork could be expected on november for sure and all things would get settled only after that.

1) and 2) are bad for normal bitcoin users. We need 3) transactions are fast and not $2 or more.

I do not know if someone is spamming, but mining empty blocks and filling other blocks have the same result: unconfirmed transactions and fees pile up.

Hope all that's written in this comment is true. Bitcoin Cash and the problems of the high transaction fees came at the same time. Bitcoin have to solve the issues of their transaction fees, or else will let Bitcoin Cash emerge, because the ones that are behind it are making everything to not let it dive like another altcoin. And f these  transaction fees happen to get higher, people will also start to change to Bitcoin Cash, making it grow in value and threaten bitcoin's value.

You are right we need option 3
My 1 & 2 are possible solutions, but your 3 is an objective of the solution.
How do we get fast $2 transactions, other than by my methods 1 or 2?


There is plenty of evidence of spam.
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#3m (https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#3m)
I don't have the TX's to hand, but there are 1000's of transactions shuffling tiny amounts between 1000's of addresses.
I don't think anyone is disputing that there is spam, the question is, who is causing it, and what is their motive.

Some SegWit proponents were a little overzealous in their unrestrained hyping of the benefits (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2009856.msg20137547#msg20137547), while not pausing to contemplate on the effect this might have on all the people who rely on the opinions posted on this board for information.  Now we have all the anticipation built up and not much to show for it yet.  But please be patient.  For anyone who understood (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1882416.msg18711851#msg18711851) the fact that SegWit will only provide benefit when people actually begin switching to the new keypairs and using them for their transactions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1928093.msg19734109#msg19734109), this is all unfolding as predicted.  This information is not new, it has been available for some time.  It just got buried amongst all the hype and drama.  It's expected (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1882416.msg18712524#msg18712524) that some unreputable opportunists may seize upon this short term confusion and disappointment to claim that it was all a lie or that it doesn't work as advertised, but this should be ignored.  The improvements will become apparent over time, not straight away.

Give it time.

We can't deny that there were some over-promising and now some under-delivering. Plenty of people thought the SegWit activation on August 1st would cure all problems, and they see now that nothing has changed... I'm betting BTC's price to go down because of this. Of course, it will raise again in the future.

This is already not true - if I interpret blockchain.info's statistics right, so far, we had four blocks with more than 1 MB (these need to include Segwit transactions), three of them mined today:

- block 481947 (https://blockchain.info/block-height/481947) (1,032119 MB)
- block 482152 (https://blockchain.info/block-height/482152) (1,00003 MB)
- block 482187 (https://blockchain.info/block-height/482187) (1,00003 MB)
- block 482191 (https://blockchain.info/block-height/482191) (1,00001 MB)

So things are moving slowly, but they are moving.

Maybe segwit is not yet fully active? If only few have block sizes more than 1mb that means segwit isn't fully activated. I thought it really will solve slow transactions if it is fully activated and as I see it now, I think it really didn't solve the problem but it is too early to say it. To judge whether it is really activated or not, I will wait a month or so because full utilization of segwit might really take long.

You don't know what activation is.
You don't know what locking in is.
scam
skam/Submit
nouninformal
1.
a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/ (https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/01/26/segwit-benefits/) - please point out what Bitcoin Core said here which was objectively a lie that they were aware of at the time.

Basically what I'm saying is that you don't know what a scam is.

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It's this kind of misunderstanding of what proposals are supposed to achieve that results in all this FUD happening now.  SegWit is not supposed to make everything 100% perfect overnight.

Yes.  It will become more each day and then finally overtake the old bitcoin.

It is fully active. It is just broken.  It doesn't do what they said it would do.  They told everyone it was part of a scaling solution.  Obviously that is incorrect.

Thanks God, situation is already getting better! Fees are gradually decreasing and there are less and less unconfirmed transactions! :)

Its not broken, its working as intended, perhaps you just don't understand it properly.
Full benefits will be realised when people actually start sending to and from a segwit address.

However if the spam keeps up, the transaction fees may not drop, but this would be a problem on any chain.
Its worth noting that no other chain (except maybe ETH) has needed to consider scaling.
None of the funky solutions in some alt coins have ever been testing under real game theory conditions.
As BCH is discovering with its EDA mess.

http://segwit.5gbfree.com/countsegwit.html (http://segwit.5gbfree.com/countsegwit.html)

Well, it's not a permanent solution, I'm afraid, and mempool is still over 60k, which is less than the 100k (26th August), but still a huge pile of tx. Our luck is that BCH has raised the difficulty (according to fork.lol) and BTC is more profitable at the moment, compared to BCH. So miners are on the BTC chain now and they're working on the transactions, and it's weekend now, which is another luck for BTC. I'm wondering how many unconfirmed transaction will be confirmed by the time of the next BCH EDA...

There was only over-promising done by people who were spreading misinformation -- not from Core developers and other experts in the field. To those paying attention, it was very clear that Segwit would only provide capacity benefits once people begin switching to the new address types and using them. This was actually one of the largest objections from Jeff Garzik: that it takes too long for everyone to voluntarily upgrade and start using the new rules.

And Segwit was only activated a couple days ago (not on August 1st). Most wallet providers haven't released their Segwit-compatible wallets yet, so we need to be patient. In any case, the main benefits of Segwit have nothing to do with the block size increase. They will come later, now that we have dealt with transaction malleability.

But sure, BTC's price could go down, just because there is no hype anymore. Or for no reason at all.

BCH difficulty has been adjusted overnight, but it's still less profitable to mine compared to bitcoin, but the difference is just a little now. (BTC 1.26, BCH 1.0, fork.lol) At midnight it was about 3:1 for BTC. Mempool has sticked to 60k, so we'll see what happens when EU and US gets up and starts to send transactions again in the morning. SW activation has little effect yet, now it's the miners's choice to select the most profitable coin to shrink it's mempool.

didn;t noticed that, but the transaction time and fees , both are going out of proportion.

I had doubts too. My confirmation in the evening took more than an hour just for a single one. I hope it gets better in the near future. There was speculation it was happening due to bitcoin cash but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Well, actually everyone can contribute to the situation to improve: simply using Segwit transactions and addresses. The more Segwit is used, the more the situation will improve - it doesn't improve on its own ;)

I presently use Electrum and it seems to only support it for testnet, but Bitcoin Core users can create segwit addresses with the following command (ADDR must be an address that already exists in your wallet!):


according to this answer on Bitcoin Stack exchange (https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/57832/how-to-generate-segwit-address).

Segwit initiation falls under the control of BIP 9 — a strategy for conveying different in reverse perfect delicate forks in parallel. Segwit's BIP 9 sending requests that at least 95% of pieces flag availability for Segwit in a 2016 block period. With a specific end goal to flag preparation for Segwit an excavator sets bit 1 in the nVersion field of each piece that they mine. These bit 1 "banners" are what BIP 9 searches for when it ascertains if 95% of the squares in any given period are flagging status for Segwit.

I agree, lets use a large variable block size so that spam doesn't matter. Oh, wait...

You are right, most people including me do not know how to use it.
Do you know how to use SegWit?  According to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2128315.0 there is no user interface yet to use SegWit.
SegWit works, but it cannot be used yet.

The Segwit does not really increase the block size; the size should stay around 1MB, because it is not a hard fork.  However, Segwit laid the foundation for possible Lightning Network (LN) implementation technology wise.  With LN, millions of transactions can be processed within a second.  Because of that, the community is debating whether a Segwit2X hard fork is necessary.  Personally, I do not think it is necessary if we do implement something like LN.

Many of you have the opinion, that segwit was not successful, even failed. So should we now swap to BCH because BitCash supporters were right and Segwit supporters wrong?

There is no graphical user interface yet. But as I said [ DO NOT POST SESC LINKS #top]in this post[/url] (and also was mentioned by TryNinja in the thread you linked) there is the addwitnessaddress command.

It should also work in the graphical Core client, at least from 0.13 onwards (selecting Debug Window -> Console).

If you want to use only Segwit transactions from now on, what you can do is create a new, fresh address, convert it to "Segwit style" with addwitnessaddress, and move all your coins to the newly created address. If you want all your coins on Segwit addresses, you should then take care that you don't accept any transactions to "legacy" addresses (so create some more Segwit addresses if you want more privacy).

I read that also NBitcoin does the trick, but that is a library for expert users and programmers.

Bitcoincash supporters weren't right just because transactions are slow now because segwit isnt used yet by many addresses. There are only a few blocks who exceeded 1mb limit as linked by someone who posted here in this thread. It is activated now but it cant be fully used by the network yet. We can see how fast transactions are with segwit at litecoin. To use segwit, Follow the tip of the one who posted right above this post.

I would recommend you to read the lightning network white paper, there is a very good description about the block size needed to achieve transaction per second comparable to visa network, it's like 8GB per block.

So, if we continue the route to increase block size, most probably we will reach a dead end where nodes will be highly centralised.

Segwit, on the other hand, is offering much more long term possibilities, even though the short term effect is not that visible (yet).

Wow, very well put. That actually makes a lot of sense, so if we do get that x2 upgrade in November does that make it the possibility of another bitcoin airdrop?

I think segwit was activated to boost the transaction speed, and also increase the block size of bitcoin
transactions, though transactions involving bitcoin cash are now being confirmed in no time, bitcoin transactions are starting to suffer a lot.

One thing is to enable SegWit and something else is to use it. You need to have SegWit enabled wallets on both side to be able to reap the benefits of the lower fee. It will take some time for sure but eventually it will be used by most if not all.

I have not noticed any thing new since segwit was claimed to have been launched, infact there now seems to be more transactions on the network that are now taking longer to be confirmed, even transaction fees have been increasing rapidly.

Activating Segwit is the first step to adding new features to bitcoin
I think it will disappear, but now news comes it has a lot of hash,
I also do not think it is related to bitcoin cash, just give it a bit to make devs work on the project and soon it will be faster.

Many people think segwit can change this situation, but I think it can not, because in fact, it just makes a different currency. Another bitcoin is similar and certainly can not solve the current problem of bitcoin.