Bitcoin Forum

I was thinking about The Silk Road website.  That site just totally fascinates me for some reason. It's just crazy that you can go on there and buy friggin' heroin just like you buy something from Amazon.com.

This dude was saying at the bitcoin conference that the sellers are all going to get busted because it's easy to trade bitcoin movements, but I just don't see how that makes sense.  It seems like they could just go to McD or Starbucks and jump on their wifi AND use a VPN and set up a bitcoin wallet somewhere and then people make the payments to that and it's in no way associated with them.

So there is no way to identify them by IP and no way to identify them through BTC movements.

The only way I could see that they could get busted is if when they take the money back out of the system. Like if they transferred the bitcoin to coinbase and cashed out or if they bought something with the BTC and then had it shipped to their home.  But if they left the BTC in an online wallet for months or years and then withdrew it later, seems like little chance they could get busted.  Of course would be smart to use a VPN whenever accessing said wallet.

And I don't even know how well bitcoins are traceable.  Like if I send funds from my wallet to Mt Gox, can it be traced to Gox where I have my name on my account?   I guess probably but I'm not sure.  Anyway it's a fascinating subject because we lose more and more privacy all the time and there are some very, very evil people out there who like to mess with others for either financial gain... or just for the lulz.   

Comments or corrections?

When you put it like that it's pretty funny lol  


Yes, there was someone here that posted a great saying that went something like, if you're not sure how to use Bitcoin anonymously then assume it is not anonymous.

That is super accurate advice.

Truthfully, you have to be an expert at Bitcoin to be sure you're using it anonymously. It's not easy, but certainly possible.

The biggest technical hurdle is someone tracking coins to you that you wish they couldn't. With Bitcoin every transaction is public, so if you receive coins associated with an "illegal" drug sale and enforcers are aware of those coins, then you have to take steps to be sure those coins can't be connected to you. The enforcers can watch everywhere those coins go, just as anyone else can, so mixing services (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mixing_service) for example are used so those coins can mix with people not connected with the sale.

 ;D

It fascinated me as well for a while, until I realized there are pubs in my city where the same services are available and have been for decades.

I dare say you need to be an 'expert' to use btc anonymously, just a fair bit of reading up on it.

It is easy to bust them using traditional police methods (you have to ship the goods somehow, (a big leak)) , soon or later it will happen.

Silk Road, Atlantis and Black Market Reloaded are all a blessing in disguise for governments. Some direct benefits likely include:

1) Less gang violence; postal workers don't tend to hang bits of their competitors from bridges in turf disputes
2) Increased product safety; purchasing from vendors with consistently high feedback is going to significantly increase the chances that you're actually getting what you pay for which in turn reduces the use of health services (The effects of Cocaine are well established, the effects of random research chemical RCX.YZ cooked up in a Chinese lab are not: See Methadrone for an example)
3) Less wasteful use of law enforcement; incarcerating some poor sod for numerous years at vast expense because (s)he happens to have been detained while dealing a few grams of some outlawed chemical is not a good use of public money.

It is not unlikely that there is some tacit governmental acknowledgement of these facts and therefore a reluctance to expend any significant resources to discover the 'real world' identities of such market places.

Of course, these points are totally subjective - there is no concrete evidence to back up the assertions, but - logically - they would seem a reasonable outcome from the solutions that the 'dark web' provides.

It certainly isn't "easy" to bust them.   If someone uses stealth packaging and ships it from some area not right near their place of residence, then that part is not easy at all.  Think of how many people drop off packages at the post office every day and now you are saying you are looking for one random person and you aren't even sure where they are.

And yes, sooner or later, everything will happen.  Sooner or later the sun will go supernovae and swallow up the earth.  But that's kind of beside the point.

Of course it fascinates you, because we have all been conditioned to believe that markets can only function with government oversight. Silk Road turns that silly notion up on its head. We have a living breathing example of a perfectly functional marketplace that is entirely based on voluntary exchange.

Silk Road is the example of how all commerce should be !

+1

I think Silk Road will do more for getting rid of gang violence than anything the police could ever do.

Yes from what I understsand, all drugs were made legal in Portugal some years ago and has only been a success.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html

+1

 :)

Well petty sure its more like:

Buyer:
You deposit funds to silkroad account:

Seller:
Silk road account pays you:

===========

So its not like if I send you coins, you send me crack, the coins are linked by a single transaction.

Then you put it in a spinner.

If you use pre-paid postage, and a fake name + address + gloves, they cant trace you.

It's against the law for the post office to open your mail, they have to have a warrant, and to get a warrant they need proof. For proof they need an x-ray, or a dog. If you stealth package your shit so a dog cant smell it, then you cant get a warrant.

You are so unaware of the system it's ridiculous.

A.) As time goes by the smell will come through the packaging, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SEAL IT, it is merely a question of time, say if you put it in a glass jar then you have 3 months until the smell is detectable outside of it, 3 air vacuum seals on top of each other will get you 12-20 hours.
B.) ALL the packages go through x-ray, dogs are incredibly effective at detecting drugs, furthermore the dog handler can make the dog do a false positive any time (can make the dog indicate as if it smelled something even though it didn't) and go through your shit.
C.) EVEN if you use a fake name + address + gloves, it's still not enough because you will need to change the gloves between every time you package something to not get particles on the outside of the package and cops will be waiting at mail drop boxes once they are aware of you, so enjoy your paranoia.
D.) It isn't that hard for the government to check out which websites you're browsing on the deepnet, even easier to social engineer the shit out of you and dox you down to the color of your trousers.

Please stop spreading FUD and advertising an otherwise extremely dangerous lifestyle, you can make a decent living without ever getting into that shit.

I'm definitely not suggesting anyone sell on Silk Road, but I find the above a bit, well, lacking.

A) first I'd imagine different substances will produce different times. I believe some drugs on SR are of the pill variety. If you deal in a specific substance I imagine it's possible to improve/calculate sealing techniques.
B) the post office processes 528 million mail pieces a day, 727,167 packages picked up through Package Pickup. I doubt every package gets an x-ray and dog screen, especially with postal budget cuts. Even if one does get flagged, it doesn't mean much to the seller, only potentially the buyer, and in such cases I believe buyers have claimed they didn't expect the package.
C) gloves are cheap
D) it is hard, though, for the government to sift through the web browsing habits of millions of people; why would they single a specific person out?

I do agree you can make a living without becoming a SR seller though.

So you think a police force would stake out all of the mail drop boxes in a metropolitan area just to catch someone selling weed and sending it though the mail?

You watch too much bad TV.

You people do realize SR is an international marketplace so the success rate or desire of authorities will vary.

The risk of getting caught selling/buying on Silk Road is EXTREMELY low.

I have never bought/sold anything but I've looked over the threads on safe shipping at the SR forum. There is quite extensive knowledge on screening procedures, as well as package profiling. Many packages are simply not checked. The shipping companies simply don't have the budget to screen every single package. Their ship times would be drastically lower or they'd have to get 100 times as much staff and equipment. They do screen and open packages, but consider the sheer volume of packages that are shipped daily...
Messy looking packages are opened more often. Packages with recycled boxes, messily taped, with handwritten addresses are opened more often. Packages with clear marijuana odor are opened more often, but some screeners don't even bother with these.

Buyers are only targeted if they receive large numbers of shipments or large quantities of drugs. Then they receive what is called a "controlled delivery" and if they accept it, the swat team appears and busts their dealing operation. They aren't concerned with regular coke addicts or kids ordering pot and acid for their friends. That would be very expensive.

Guns are almost impossible to screen unless your screener is intimately familiar with the individual parts in every firearm offered on Tor sites. You can open a hundred packages with nondescript pieces of metal and only a few of them will offer you any clue that they combine to make a gun. The fact that the packages are shipped over several weeks makes it even harder. Yes, shipping guns can be lower risk than shipping drugs. To gun experts: Yes, if you look at these parts you can tell that's the firing pin of an M4, but we don't have gun experts opening every single of thousands and thousands of packages that are shipped every single day.

Look at the news, find the number of instances of Silk Road rings getting busted. There's a handful. Big operations eventually get sloppy.

No shit man, you are actually saying that you heard about Silk Road before even knowing that there are pubs in all the cities of the world where the same services are available and have been for decades?

FUCK. I must be old.

Actually it is not possible.

No, the other way around silly.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
A) Can you smell soda through a can? Didn't think so. Also dogs cant smell through glass, you ever hear of a mason jar? As long as there are no molecules of the drug on the outside of packages they cant smell shit. And 3 months for a glass jar? The fuck are you going to have drugs in the mail for 3 months for.. seriously express is 1-2 days, its picked up in your international post office and flew in. And the USPS have to get a warrant to open your mail, they cant just open your shit.
B) IF ALL PACKAGES went though an X-ray, I feel like there would be ZERO sellers on silk road. Seriously tin foil will block the contents of the package.
C) Make a $2000 sale, change gloves big deal.
D) Right that's why silk road is doing $1-2Million a month in sales. You have no clue what you're talking about, so stop talking.


The post office have better things to do than to search everyone's mail, such as getting 1-2 day express shipping or your money back, where it needs to go.

You got all your facts wrongs, except the fact that you indeed need to change your gloves each time.

But you do not have any credibility, as all your statements and simply and plainly wrong.

What does it matter, people buy drugs daily anyways.

Non sequitur.

The gang violence would be simply redirected. Currently it is directed against the competing gangs and the police. The violence would spread to include the employees of the postal and courier services. Edit: not only against employees but also against the infrastucture: mail boxes and package lockers.

Net loss for the society.

This is being currently proven in some less-overpoliced regions of Europe. Package locker facilities are getting regularly firebombed; attacks on package couriers increased despite them no longer carrying any cash.

Silk Road is just the most widely known English language underground site. Mail order illicit drug sales have much longer history outside of the USA and even predating Bitcoin. Personally I think the spreading popularity of hidden-service Tor forums was the major enabler in this form of trade.

"Not possible" is a pretty bold statement, an FBI agent could be sniffing the data coming through your internet cables right next to your house.

Have fun decrypting my encrypted traffic.

I'm not into silk road and that business, but would it not make more sense to pack the stuff in an airtight container and then dip it in some kind of strong solvent like acetone or hydrogen peroxide to remove smells?

Nah, just pack it in coffee. That fucks dogs up 100% of the time.

Hmmm, sounds like a myth.

Well, it could be. I wouldn't know. I would never grow choice buds and mail some to my sister every year because that would be wrong.

:)

If someone did grow choice buds and mailed some of that to his sister every year, it might pass straight trough even though a dog could have smelled it.

Maybee no dog checked it because it was domestic mail, or maybe the amounts were too small. A net does have openings.

That's true. They could be using a seal-a-meal to help out too.  ;)

Myth. While training dogs they put some marijuana inside a ziploc bag along with acetone, coffee, hot sauce, diesel fuel, wall paint and body spray and dogs can still detect the marijuana inside easily. One thing to note is that dogs do not smell through the ziploc, it is the smell that evaporates through the ziploc as time goes by, it becomes easier for the dogs to detect the longer it stays in the ziploc.

The reason for this is dogs smell on different "channels", if a human smells a soup he can recognize that he smells a soup but if a dog smells a soup he recognizes all the individual ingredients, he smells the tomato, the chicken breast, the carrots, the cucumbers and so forth.

The only way to efficiently con the dog is to have food or cats nearby, thus when the dog signals the dog handler assumes the dog wants the food or the cat, not even really conning the dog but rather the dog handler.


Thinking logically, what would stop me from acquiring the keys that bounce around during the handshake? I have access to ALL of your traffic.

Out of band key exchange.

Suppose you are using a VPN so that your ISP can't snoop on your traffic. It could be possible to do a physical key exchange if the service has an office somewhere, or if you are connecting between two sites you control. That's one way to do it.

Why don't you just go to your local college and pick up whatever you want? It's much easier. Or better yet make a doctors appointment. Doctors are the best pushers in town. I went to a doctor complaining about a lower backache and without knowing anything about me he gave me a script for Oxycodone with two refills. I was high for a month. lol

Um...so long as contraband remains contraband the services of these groups will be in demand. The cartels will continue to battle over transit routes and supply chains unless the West eliminates the need by decriminalizing chemical and botanical experimentation and use. We are a long ways from that. We have guns to sell to the cartels, Wars on this and that to fund, and morality police to justify.

SR caters to tech savvy white guys that pay premium prices for their respective fix. It keeps the customer and the dealer relatively out of harm's way, if they are both smart.  They are rarely both are smart. The busts will still happen, but in the traditional sense (guy in blue smells reefer, buyer is loose, seller is followed from his supplier. Most of the dealers still deal locally, and many of the buyers are local dealers. If you do not agree, read the SR forum.

I do not transact on SR because I have neither the desire nor need for the wares. I admit that I was curious about the marketplace after hearing about it as a result of following Bitcoin. The main intrigue for me now is the unique escrow process, and the fact that there are more scammers here and other places selling legal wares than are on SR selling stolen CCs, fake IDs, and illicit substances. Fascinating. I'm happy it exist to meet demand because it keeps otherwise non-violent people out of the morgue and out of prisons. I wish they would do away with the criminal products that have real world victims (stolen paypal, CCs, etc). Individual liberties stop where others' liberties begin blah, blah, blah.    

Jeeezus! That's the real problem.

A twenty-something wants to experiment with a rare psychedelic, and it's damn near impossible for them to obtain it in the same fashion their parents did - even if they do, it probably isn't what's stated .

Anyone can complain about a booboo that time and conservative intervention will heal, and get handed (without asking) fistfuls of one of the most addictive and damaging compounds the world has ever known - Legally. Those pills are merely palliative, not curative. They are fine short term, but refills?! For low back pain?! Modern medicine at its absolute worst.   

Something's wrong with the world today, and it is not SR.

I agree, something is wrong with the world. He wouldn't give me more refills when I ran out so I had to go to a different dr. to get more.  ;D

Lmfao! I assume you're an adult and don't need a scolding from a real physician. Just be careful. I don't want to hear about you whoring for bitcoins or holding a sign at the intersection.

"Will work for bitcoins"

You made me laugh. That's a good thing.